What do we do about Sancho? Now and longer term

I like Sancho.
The problem and challenge we face is how long do we wait and what will be his ultimate level. Right now there’s probably two broad opinions he’ll never make it Vs his going to be world class.

I’m in latter, but I acknowledge that for too long United have waited 2-8 years for players to fulfill their potential or finally come good. Eg Martial, Pogba, Lingard etc etc and to be honest that trait goes back quick a while probably back to SAF last 5 years.

Really patience for players should only be shown if they are on a continuous upwards development path.

So I think this year we are ahead of schedule in the development of ETH style of play, based on the last 3 matches. We’re now at the stage where the
1) weaklinks will be obvious,
2) the players not suited to that style easily identifiable and
3) the players who don’t have the heart for it will stand out by being anonymous.

Whoever over the age of 22 that fits any of the above 3 by the end of the season should either be sold or accept a squad role.
 
Give him time until the end of the season. I have big doubts because I've never seen him play a high intense game, and I'm not a fan i wide play makers.
I'd not be bothered if he is gone after this season, he isn't cut for Premier league - that's my opinion at the moment. I'd be very happy if he changed it.

Anyway, he'll get plenty chances to prove himself. At the moment he doesn't look like a player who wants to be thrown right into the action (like Antony), so my guess is ETH will phase him out of starting XI for a while.
 
11101 said:
It's also the same as the excuses made for Martial, Fred, Varane, Dalot, Shaw and others, who all look excellent now they have decent players around them.

There is truth to it. Sancho needs to improve, no doubt, but no attacker is going to thrive when they have Rashford and Ronaldo playing statues.
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Sancho plays with the same players and yet has barely improved. Even if you ignore the fact he plays with "statues" which btw is a complete cop out, when does he start taking accountability for his own game? He's typically one of the least hard working players we have yet is normally dead by the 50th minute mark that has nothing to do with the players he's playing with.
 
duffer said:
He said in the PL.

Sancho has 3 goals and 3 assists in 39 games. James had 6 goals and 7 assists in 50 games.

Sancho will come good eventually though.
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Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

Sancho has 5 league goals in 39, James 6 in 50. And looks like 5 assists to 7 too.

Dan James played as a striker more than Sancho has.
Not that Dan James should be any sort of benchmark obviously, but as matey led with it.
 
duffer said:
From me being dumb with Transfermarkt filters, was just looking at last season. Apologies!
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It's fine.
It's a sheepish one that I'm trying to prove someone is basically matching Dan James output :lol:
 
harms said:
I think people are way too eager to completely give up on players, especially young ones — you see it with Sancho and Amad now, you saw it with Dalot (someone who never even showed the potential that those two did) earlier.

Sancho has been largely underwhelming during his time here even though he's had a good spell last season and scored a couple of important goals in this one. Yet his biggest problem seems to be his mentality, not his technical deficiency — the lack of aggression, willingness to run at defenders and general intensity. We finally have a brilliant manager in place — and we've only had him for what, 4 months of proper training? Can't you guys wait a little bit? And don't give me the Borussia argument — he wasn't playing in a well-oiled machine that was Klopp's Dortmund and he did perform outstandingly there, often despite the run of the game.

We don't need to make a decision now — we're not going to sell him this winter anyway. And I wouldn't say that he's actively hurting this club at the moment like, say, Cristiano does — the worst case scenario, he's left on the bench or subbed off. If we won't see any improvement — and something tells me that we will, then ten Hag will let the management know.
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Mentality might be a problem for Sancho, but right now it's quite obvious his main issue is he isn't an elite athlete, and you need to be one to play in this league.

You gave a good example about Dalot, I think they are pretty similar level right now. They are both doing decent job, very sound technically and right now they are important part of the squad. We might look for improvements in the future - especially in case of high paid Sancho.

If season ends now, we need to look simply how much we can get for him and if it's worth keeping him - and my vote is SELL. He will get plenty of chances to prove he can become a key player, because that should be the standard for a player on his wages.
 
I would start with giving him some rest. Next he has to fight his way back into the team. Start Elanga or Garnacho over him.

He just needs to sort it out tactically and mentally. He has the ability to operate in small spaces which we need. What we don’t need is Jadon misplacing passes and looking clueless.
 
I'd send him on loan to an easier league in January. Have him get his confidence back and hopefully attract interest in the Summer.
 
Not sure there is a simple answer.

It's easy to say "sell him" but when you buy blokes for 80 million quid on commensurate wages it becomes very hard to not take a huge loss. You might be struggling to even get 30 million and the club will find it extremely difficult to cut those losses.

Is writing off all of that investment worth it compared to sticking by the player for one more season and hoping to see an improvement?

I'm glad that's the managers call and not mine. Depends on the players attitude and what you see around training in terms of talent I would suggest. His attitude hasn't looked good so far.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
Assuming he’s not picked for England, ETH has a month to whip him into shape. Fingers crossed
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He's not been picked for England since the Euro final, he's had plenty of time to get whipped into shape. He has to seriously up his game but until Martial comes back we can't even drop him unless Garncho really kicks on soon.
 
elmo said:
I think he’ll do better when we have an actual centre forward who’ll drag the defence when making runs.

Rashford seems clueless on it and Sancho is surrounded whenever he tries to dribble towards the centre of the pitch and has to resort to either passing it to Shaw who’s making a run down the flank or Bruno/Eriksen who’ll switch it to the right.
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It would be nice to see how he does with a run of games playing next to Martial. The problem at the moment is that he is playing so poorly that when Martial finally comes back Sancho is likely to be dropped and Rashford moved out to the left.
 
finneh said:
I'd send him on loan to an easier league in January. Have him get his confidence back and hopefully attract interest in the Summer.
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Are we here already? Although I agree something drastic is needed to shock him into life maybe see how the rest of the season plays out then look for a replacement for the summer after that. We have other ares we need to improve first.
 
harms said:
I think people are way too eager to completely give up on players, especially young ones — you see it with Sancho and Amad now, you saw it with Dalot (someone who never even showed the potential that those two did) earlier.

Sancho has been largely underwhelming during his time here even though he's had a good spell last season and scored a couple of important goals in this one. Yet his biggest problem seems to be his mentality, not his technical deficiency — the lack of aggression, willingness to run at defenders and general intensity. We finally have a brilliant manager in place — and we've only had him for what, 4 months of proper training? Can't you guys wait a little bit? And don't give me the Borussia argument — he wasn't playing in a well-oiled machine that was Klopp's Dortmund and he did perform outstandingly there, often despite the run of the game.

We don't need to make a decision now — we're not going to sell him this winter anyway. And I wouldn't say that he's actively hurting this club at the moment like, say, Cristiano does — the worst case scenario, he's left on the bench or subbed off. If we won't see any improvement — and something tells me that we will, then ten Hag will let the management know.
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Pretty much a nail in this thread
 
Belisarius said:
It would be nice to see how he does with a run of games playing next to Martial. The problem at the moment is that he is playing so poorly that when Martial finally comes back Sancho is likely to be dropped and Rashford moved out to the left.
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He'll still have plenty of games he can use to prove himself. Rashford will blow hot / cold anyway and Sancho will be the default attacking sub on both wings during normal games.

Decent weapon to have on the bench.
 
I have high hope in Ten Hag. If he prefers to have wingers with high intensity, and Sancho's selling could facilitate that, i don't see why we persist with Sancho's progress as United main aim.

The interest in Gakpo made think this.

Otherwise (Sancho's existence doesn't interfere with ETH's need), ETH can take his sweet time to nurture Sancho to see if he can improve.
 
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Mainoldo said:
Joao Felix. Rafael Leao

That’s what I think of Sancho. He’s too Soft.
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He can be coached into toughening up in all honesty. ETH won’t spare him , he’ll give him tough love….and if and when that happens we’ll have a hell of a player on our hands.
 
crossy1686 said:
Are we here already? Although I agree something drastic is needed to shock him into life maybe see how the rest of the season plays out then look for a replacement for the summer after that. We have other ares we need to improve first.
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Not to worry we'll inevitably keep him for a few years, trigger his optional year extension to "retain his value" and then continue paying him £17m a year until 2026.

I really hope I'm wrong but I just don't see any of his supposed qualities. He's basically the antithesis of what Ten Hag wants from his attackers; he's slow, ponderous, rarely puts in a tackle and is cowardly in possession. If he has the talent that people talk about then he certainly doesn't seem to have the mentality.

I also can't recall an outfield player being useless for United for over 50 games and then suddenly turning into a great player? Hopefully someone can remind me of such a story to give me a glimmer of hope?

If as I suspect though he simply can't cut it in this league I really hope Ten Hag is more ruthless than our previous managers with the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Bailly etc. Get rid whilst we can actually get a few quid for him.
 
Fortitude said:
Sure, is it Erik asking the question on a fan forum?
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Fair enough, but you said "should learn how to use". Who should learn? Not the poster who asked the question – his learning isn't fixing anything. So you were implying that Sancho is great (or at least fine), but EtH doesn't know how to use him. Which is unfair, in my humble opinion.

harms said:
Why do you think that this post in any way contradicts what ten Hag does now?
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It does because EtH not knowing how to use Sancho is not the problem. One of the world's best managers has been working with him for several months, giving him plenty of chances, and he is still very bad. Logical explanation is not that manager needs to learn how to use him, logical explanation is - Sancho is not good enough for EPL, or is not progressing enough, for whatever reason.
 
finneh said:
Not to worry we'll inevitably keep him for a few years, trigger his optional year extension to "retain his value" and then continue paying him £17m a year until 2026.

I really hope I'm wrong but I just don't see any of his supposed qualities. He's basically the antithesis of what Ten Hag wants from his attackers; he's slow, ponderous, rarely puts in a tackle and is cowardly in possession. If he has the talent that people talk about then he certainly doesn't seem to have the mentality.

I also can't recall an outfield player being useless for United for over 50 games and then suddenly turning into a great player? Hopefully someone can remind me of such a story to give me a glimmer of hope?

If as I suspect though he simply can't cut it in this league I really hope Ten Hag is more ruthless than our previous managers with the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Bailly etc. Get rid whilst we can actually get a few quid for him.
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I agree with you, I haven't seen him have more than a decent game with good moments, his numbers are terrible for the position he plays and I don't see a player in him at all. Compared to Antony he looks even further off the pace, and it feels a lot like we swapped Lingard for an £80m version of Lingard.

I'd be fine with him leaving in the summer as long as we have a replacement lined up, but I would like to see how he does throughout this season first under the condition he's been told he's playing for his career at this level. If he can't improve knowing that then ship him out.
 
Sandikan said:
What metric are you using for this?
James scored 9 in 70+ appearances, Sancho has 8 in 52.
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Goals + assists/playing time in PL for United. All stats taken from Understat. I put the figures below in Sancho's performance thread yesterday, not all are relevant to this discussion. Your figures include other competitions. If just considering goals, then Sancho would be marginally ahead in PL by my maths as he is scoring a goal every 526 mins, compared to 557 mins for Dan James.

Dan James 3341 PL mins (for United) 6 goals 7 assists 0.18 xG90 0.18 xA90 1.01 KP90 1.66 Sh90

Jadon Sancho 2628 PL mins 5 goals 4 assists 0.19 xG90 0.16 xA90 1.92 KP90 1.13 Sh90

Still another 713 PL mins for Jadon to reach and perhaps overtake, Dan James' goals + assists.

Here is the link to Understat's page for Sancho: https://understat.com/player/6345 and Dan James: https://understat.com/player/5595
 
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crossy1686 said:
I agree with you, I haven't seen him have more than a decent game with good moments, his numbers are terrible for the position he plays and I don't see a player in him at all. Compared to Antony he looks even further off the pace, and it feels a lot like we swapped Lingard for an £80m version of Lingard.

I'd be fine with him leaving in the summer as long as we have a replacement lined up, but I would like to see how he does throughout this season first under the condition he's been told he's playing for his career at this level. If he can't improve knowing that then ship him out.
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All fair points. My only concern is that two consecutive seasons of this kind of form and a £350k contract for 3 years and his value is basically going to be somewhat trashed.

With 6 months tearing apart the Dutch, French or German league and there's a good chance a few teams see his time at United as the anomaly and believe he's worth a £40m fee.
 
Cash on him next summer and buy a better player. Rectify the mistake while it's still possible.
 
There is a lot of suggestion here that he lacks passion and intensity, and I don’t disagree. I am curious though after seeing Casemiro’s reaction to scoring and Antony clearly giving tons of fecks, do you think you can have a team where everyone has that mentality? Do you need some level-headedness on the field. I’ve never played high level football, so I don’t know.
 
Sell him on the cheap and buy a less expensive replacement. In reality he probably stays until his contract expires because nobody wants to match his wages.
The good news is for once it is not just a utd problem. Real have the same issues with hazard.
 
The issue about Sancho case is his wages. For someone with above 300k p/w wages, you can't expect him to be given lot of years of chances. That is a wages of being key player in here. We are not talking about Pellistri or Dalot's situation. If this season he doesn't show any improvement that he is worth the amount we paid him, I would move him on while he still has value.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He lacks aggression and power. He is a calm finisher, that much I'd say. Not sure how we fit him in but right now you would have to say it's not looking good for him longer term.
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The bold bit there, truth be told he rarely gets in those positions like a Rashford does, i agree that some of the chances Rashford had been missing of late Sancho would bury them but to get into those positions there has to be willingness which at the minute Sancho isn't showing.

Like most posters on here and on the Sancho thread have said, his problem has to be mentally because once faced with any defender that gives him a hard challenge he goes back into his safe shell.

Hence why I'll ask this question has he had a bad injury before since his break through season with Dortmund, Because that might explain a lot!?
 
A bit odd one here. As a winger he has no pace, cannot beat his man 1v1 but won't cross and shoot either so he only passes to the back. He really slowed our tempo because when he received the ball he just stood still and wait for him to be crowded then passed the ball to the back. Anyone watching him in his Dortmund days care to tell me his playstyle and strength ? He looks like he got no playstyle at all now.
 
STaphouse said:
And play who?
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Personally I'd play Rashford on the left, it has the dual benefit of keeping Rashfod away from the CF position and also keeping Sancho out of the team.

In the CF position I'd rotate between Martial (who'll hopefully be fit by then), Bruno as a false nine with three of Eriksen, Casemiro, McTominay and Fred behind, Ronaldo, plus possibly giving some minutes to Garnacho.
 
I don't understand why we gave him such huge wages. It doesn't seem like any other team were in for him. He had played well for Dortmund, but unless you're Haaland, or a 21 y/o Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi, etc, I don't see why you give out wages like that. Hopefully he pays his agent well.

We're going to have to hope he comes good. The one thing Sancho has on his side is time. If he were an older player, it would be a lot more concerning. He did have a couple months spell last season where he showed some good form. Still, based on the average performance level he's been putting in for us, he's not even worth half of what we're paying him. Selling him would be difficult for that reason.

He's going to get a lot more playtime this season. Martial has spent the vast majority of the season out and Ronaldo isn't that guy anymore. Rashford will continue as our #9. ETH doesn't seem interested in using our youth players. Sancho will get more time to show better form. We definitely won't sell him in Jan. I highly doubt we'll be able to in the summer, either. The type of teams that can afford him are never going to buy him.
 
Theres plenty of talent in hik and he's still young enough to persevere with

For me he's actually one of those a bit slow to pick up the ETH style, he's still trying to play his dortmund game which he also did last year but I can't blame him so much for that given the absolute mess the coaching was last season. He needs to adapt his game but I'm confident he will eventually

It's still early days for the new manager and some players will need longer than others to fully adapt
 
He has not been great for us so far but selling him in january is more nuts than all the "play player X in Y position instead" suggestions.

Ronaldo is done at the highest level. Martial is injured most of the time.
We have Rashford who is not the most consistent, we have a young Antony that just arrived, a young Sancho who for some reason hasn´t find his groove yet. We have another young player in Elanga who might not have the talent to be a starter for us but works his socks off and might be as big a threat down the left as Sancho at the moment.

So to sum it up, we are paper thin up front. We lack quality and experience. We need to add players.

And on top off that, writing off Sancho already is just crazy.
 
OrcaFat said:
He’s a bit like Mata in some ways. He has a classy technique and an attractive style. Against some teams he is effective. Unfortunately he has some of the same deficiencies as Mata.

He’s young and can be developed to play better to his strengths but I don’t see how his weaknesses can be overcome.

He’s a useful squad player who can develop into a player who can compete for a place with the best of them but his selection will always be subject to tactics and the opposition. He’ll never be a “first name on the teamsheet” guy.

Conclusion: We should recruit more forwards but not sell him.
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That is a really expensive (80m) squad player and you saying we offered him more than 300k pw wages to not be the "first name on the teamsheet guy"? Recknon his wages is even more than Arsenal's wingers Saka and Martinelli combined ffs.
 
It seems to me that his best matches for us, have been while playing with Martial as the striker. Its clear that Sancho thrives when he has other players close by to do one-two passing with, and when left on his own he is almost useless.
Sadly Martial is mostly injured, and Rashford and Bruno will never be the types of players Sancho thrives with.
How good and effective Sancho will be in the future largely depends on who we get as the new main striker.
 
CloneMC16 said:
I don't understand why we gave him such huge wages. It doesn't seem like any other team were in for him. He had played well for Dortmund, but unless you're Haaland, or a 21 y/o Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi, etc, I don't see why you give out wages like that. Hopefully he pays his agent well.

We're going to have to hope he comes good. The one thing Sancho has on his side is time. If he were an older player, it would be a lot more concerning. He did have a couple months spell last season where he showed some good form. Still, based on the average performance level he's been putting in for us, he's not even worth half of what we're paying him. Selling him would be difficult for that reason.

He's going to get a lot more playtime this season. Martial has spent the vast majority of the season out and Ronaldo isn't that guy anymore. Rashford will continue as our #9. ETH doesn't seem interested in using our youth players. Sancho will get more time to show better form. We definitely won't sell him in Jan. I highly doubt we'll be able to in the summer, either. The type of teams that can afford him are never going to buy him.
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I don't either and nor can anyone, I'm assuming. Seems we doubled or even tripled his wages when we weren't even in a bidding war with anyone for him.
 
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