One thing is for sure, unless the Dems learn from all this they ain't winning in 2020.
There's even rumours of Hillary running again. Feck my life if that happens. Jeez Trump would think all his birthdays had come at once.
What did Hillary do wrong and what's next for her?
- Thread starter sammsky1
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One thing is for sure, unless the Dems learn from all this they ain't winning in 2020.
There's even rumours of Hillary running again. Feck my life if that happens. Jeez Trump would think all his birthdays had come at once.
One thing is for sure, unless the Dems learn from all this they ain't winning in 2020.
There's even rumours of Hillary running again. Feck my life if that happens. Jeez Trump would think all his birthdays had come at once.
Exactly. It's fine to let it go but how Democrats run in 2018 and 2020 is based on the lessons learned from 2016. And if the lesson learned was "she was the most qualified candidate ever and Russia / sexism stole the election from her" then the Democrats will run the people and the same campaigns and lose again. And based on the link I posted here, it doesn't seem like they are learning the right lessons.
To follow up, Republicans have large majorities in the House and the Senate and Democrats control only 14 state legislatures. The problems go beyond Russian hacking or bots. The Democrats sold out the poor and the unions and not only was it bad policy for a supposed left wing party but it was bad politics.
It's crazy that Democrats don't campaign on these things that are a) the right thing to do and b) political winners. Election day being a national holiday. DC statehood. Puerto Rico statehood. Giving felons the right to vote. Union card check. Automatic voter registration when you turn 18. Universal absentee voting.
I don't mean political winners as in each one of these necessarily has 51% support, I mean once implemented they increase vote share for Democrats. I don't know the polling off the top of my head but I am confident that a party that campaigned on this consistently for years and even decades would be able to make the moral case for it.
I don't mean political winners as in each one of these necessarily has 51% support, I mean once implemented they increase vote share for Democrats. I don't know the polling off the top of my head but I am confident that a party that campaigned on this consistently for years and even decades would be able to make the moral case for it.
I'm sure the thought has crossed Hillary's mind. Although I seriously doubt there is anyone in the Dem establishment that wants to deal with 2016 all over again. My sense is this will be between Bernie and someone like Biden.
I agree and hope you are right. At the same time @Eboue has raised some good points and lessons really do have to be learned. It's insane how the Dems seem to be completely inept at truly pinpointing the best things to campaign on.
It does feel like complacency, and certainly in the last election, arrogance were the main messages coming out of the Democratic campaign. The parallels with the UK and Brexit and the way the Tory party ran their last election campaign are strikingly similar.
I just hope lessons are learnt because there are some amazing candidates and I think that the Dems could form a truly special government. Not only that, on most issues like healthcare, immigration and gun control, the people actually want changes and are in line with Democratic policy. So the will of the people is already there and on side. With a clusterfeck and embarrassment like Trump in charge, it does seem ( at the moment) like 2020 much like 2016 is more for the Dems to lose than the Republicans to win.
I don't see too many amazing Democrat candidates right now. Trump's an odious individual but if the economy is strong, house prices are up and peoples 401ks have good gains the Dems will have to win 2020, and it will be a tough fight. If he manages to get through the Russian investigation people will overlook his obvious character flaws if he/GOP deliver on the economy, or at least the perception is they delivered.
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Fantastic post and I tend to agree...
If my hunch is right, then it looks like she is still interfering with whats going on at the DNC.
I dont share your pessimism and negative outlook. Healthcare premiums will rise for many soon enough and when people see no jobs returning to the Rust Belt and broken promises of no extra coal mining jobs and nothing changing in important key swing states then if the Dems reach out and work to get those voters back, then I definitely think It's theirs to lose again.
Also It's reported over 250,000 Puerto Ricans have moved to the mainland (mainly Florida) since the hurricane and disgraceful relief effort. All those votes WILL make a huge difference in an important and very tight swing state. Now a few reports suggest many haven't signed up to vote yet but that's hardly surprising really as it wouldn't be a priority for me after escaping a disaster zone either, but if they do, and if the Dems can rally round and help then Trump and the Republicans are in the shit in a state they badly need to hold the electoral college.
Also It's reported over 250,000 Puerto Ricans have moved to the mainland (mainly Florida) since the hurricane and disgraceful relief effort. All those votes WILL make a huge difference in an important and very tight swing state. Now a few reports suggest many haven't signed up to vote yet but that's hardly surprising really as it wouldn't be a priority for me after escaping a disaster zone either, but if they do, and if the Dems can rally round and help then Trump and the Republicans are in the shit in a state they badly need to hold the electoral college.
If Hilary runs again and wins the primary I'm doing an @(e)boue
Yeah it definitely looks like it. As I said earlier she's really not helping her party and should just do everyone a favour and feck right off now.
A thing that'd only ever had legs in the first place because of Clinton's feck ups. Even if those very same feck ups were overplayed to the point of parody.
To Hillary's credit, it's quite an achievement to be the less likable person in a head to head race with Donald Trump.
She is pretty much the poster child of what Trump's followers campaign for. An end to the back room elite pulling all the strings. I think she is one of maybe ten people alive to day, who could actually lose an election to the big orange man child. I still can't believe the democrats couldn't come up with a better candidate.
She is pretty much the poster child of what Trump's followers campaign for. An end to the back room elite pulling all the strings. I think she is one of maybe ten people alive to day, who could actually lose an election to the big orange man child. I still can't believe the democrats couldn't come up with a better candidate.
I can never quite understand why this thread is still going when I see its had replies. I assumed it would die months ago.
Im no expert at all, but my interpretation of it, speaking as a Brit with a casual interest in US politics, is that she was the wrong candidate at the wrong time. She was the personification of the establishment. And people didnt want establishment. I mean, Obama won on a message of "change" - and he didnt really deliver, at least not to anything like the degree his rhetoric led people to expect. But even then people were starting to tire of political dynasties and wanted something new. After Obama that was even more the case. (The flip side to this point - and this is where I am a bit more out on a limb I think - is that I dont think she was necessarily that bad a candidate per se, I think pre financial crisis, when people had more trust in the system and there was less anti establishment sentiment, I think people might have been more enthusiastic about her.)
The other thing is what Langster said, I get the sense from my US friends and family that there was a huge backlash over the Bernie thing. People couldnt forgive her for that. People wanted anti establishment, so Bernie would probably have beaten Trump. But for a lot of people, even people on the left, a populist on the right was better than an establishment, corporate stooge on the more mainstream right.
Im no expert at all, but my interpretation of it, speaking as a Brit with a casual interest in US politics, is that she was the wrong candidate at the wrong time. She was the personification of the establishment. And people didnt want establishment. I mean, Obama won on a message of "change" - and he didnt really deliver, at least not to anything like the degree his rhetoric led people to expect. But even then people were starting to tire of political dynasties and wanted something new. After Obama that was even more the case. (The flip side to this point - and this is where I am a bit more out on a limb I think - is that I dont think she was necessarily that bad a candidate per se, I think pre financial crisis, when people had more trust in the system and there was less anti establishment sentiment, I think people might have been more enthusiastic about her.)
The other thing is what Langster said, I get the sense from my US friends and family that there was a huge backlash over the Bernie thing. People couldnt forgive her for that. People wanted anti establishment, so Bernie would probably have beaten Trump. But for a lot of people, even people on the left, a populist on the right was better than an establishment, corporate stooge on the more mainstream right.
That is not accurate. As a Bernard Brother myself, I know plenty of other leftists who despised Hillary. I would guesstimate 90% voted for Clinton, 10% didn't vote for either candidate and 0% voted for Trump.
Fair enough, I am probably wrong about that.
I have heard a few leftists (such as Jimmy Dore) talk since the election about being happy Trump won because it has mobilised the left. Whereas if Clinton had won (and when Obama was in power) the left was subdued, despite the Democrats having, essentially, a right wing agenda. So he is saying Trump is worse, but at least now people are fighting it, as opposed to something a bit less bad that nobody can be bothered to do anything about.
But he never said he actually voted for Trump. And I have no idea how representative he is of the hard left. It is true that none of my lefty friends or family voted for Trump.
Jimmy Dore has been very open with that he voted Jill Stein.
I read that 85% of black voters who voted for Obama did not not vote Clinton which would probably surprise her but not me.
I have always felt she comes of as very entitled and seemed to think everyone would vote for her without her having to win people over .
She was the same when she ran against Obama thinking there was no way she could lose and never learned from her mistakes when she ran against Trump.
Surely you have to try and appeal to voters a lot more than she did .
I have always felt she comes of as very entitled and seemed to think everyone would vote for her without her having to win people over .
She was the same when she ran against Obama thinking there was no way she could lose and never learned from her mistakes when she ran against Trump.
Surely you have to try and appeal to voters a lot more than she did .
She's so smug & condescending that I even found her Grammys cameo annoying.
I actually think she somehow has less self-awareness than Trump.
This is not even in the realm of truth (I'm guessing the double negative is a typo).
Wtf is she doing at the Grammys? Did she sign a record deal with p diddy or something?
I think I'm right in saying more Clinton supporters voted for McCain in 08 than Sanders voters voting for Trump. Can't remember the exact figures
I d consider myself center left by most standards, in other words - Clinton territory- but I absolutely cannot stand her. I agree with the sentiment that she just seems to not be much different from Trump with regards to having an apparent complete lack of self awareness. The DNC should really tell her to stay out of the limelight or something. Dems should be able to destroy the repubs in the midterms but she s not helping anyone but putting her face out there again. Imho of course.
Someone wrote something along the lines of “how could an American living in Ohio who’s just lost his job and is on the shittiest Obamacare bronze plan ever vote for someone like Hillary who comes down and tells them everything is great all while dressing like an ambassador to outer space” and it’s probably about right.
The DNC could stick just about any human being up against Trump and win but if they put Hillary in again then people are going to ask “why are they so desperate for this weird crazy eyed lady to be the most powerful person on the planet, what strings has she pullled and Who has been paid off?”, and the sheer disdain for the electorate might be enough to allow Trump to win again.
The DNC could stick just about any human being up against Trump and win but if they put Hillary in again then people are going to ask “why are they so desperate for this weird crazy eyed lady to be the most powerful person on the planet, what strings has she pullled and Who has been paid off?”, and the sheer disdain for the electorate might be enough to allow Trump to win again.
How dare she crack a joke about how she lost to a rapist with a wet log for a brain. She lost because she was completely out of touch with most of the country, hired advisors who were completely out of touch with most of the country, picked the most forgettable VP nominee in decades, was incredibly unpopular and ran a horrible campaign centered around "get a load of this guy". Then after she blew it she had the nerve to criticize the participants in the women's March for not doing more for her. She should take her millions and do something productive like Jimmy Carter did. The least she could do is shut the feck up about politics. Her opinion is literally worthless. She lost to a junior senator with a name that sounded like an amalgamation of every boogeyman the country hated at the time, she ran a racist campaign against him and then a sizable chunk of her voters went over to mccain. She then had a few years as secretary of state where she helped turn Libya into an open air slave market. She used a private server for official government business, which is not a huge deal but absolutely an example of clintonian paranoia. And then she lost to a dementia addled game show host. She and her team legitimized trump and hoped to face him and then used the same strategy that didn't work for the Republicans. She said single payer would never ever happen. Her boy Schumer said their strategy of alienating working class voters would pay off when they got twice as many country club Republicans to cross over and vote for her. Well guess what, they fecking hate her and they hate Democrats and the fact that these absolute weapons thought it might just shows how out of touch they are with normal people in this country. Why do they think people are Republicans? Because they care about small government? No its because they hate Democrats, they hate effete snooty libs who spend thousands of dollars to see Hamilton. They hate poor people. They hate people who read the New Yorker. They hate gays. They hate blacks. They hate foreigners. The republican party is the party of resentment and trump is the personiication of that rage. They would never have gone to her and her team would have known that if they had even one person whose career path wasn't unpaid internship > think tank > congressional staffer > dnc leech. They would have known that if they bothered to think about and listen to people in this country who dont have trust funds or who didn't go to Wellesley or Cornell or Northwestern. The Clintons helped turn the supposed left wing party into a party that stands for wall street, imperialism and drone strikes but sometimes they wrap the drones in rainbow flags before they blow up wedding parties half way around the world. They would have known how much people hated them if they ever spent time outside of the acela corridor that wasnt a VIP trip to Lollapalooza.
What I dont get is how you people arent more mad at her than I am. I hate her and everything she stands for. I think she would have been a terrible president who directly caused a ton of human misery. You guys like her. You guys think she would have been a good president. How can you not be so angry at her for blowing the easiest election ever? How can you laugh when she posts glib remarks about how she lost the election to the hamburglar? If Bernie got the nomination and blew it by running a bad campaign with a discredited strategy I would never forgive him. But for you guys it's like there is no culpability on her or her team. She fecking blew it. She's a terrible politician and a terrible person and the least she could do is shut the feck up about it.
Yea she lost when half of your own country men who are supposed to live up to a higher moral calling through their religion bit their teeth and voted for a pussy grabber while dream chasers like you voted for Harambe. You had two on the ballot and you were supposed to vote for the less dangerous. Don't worry, in 4 or 8 years time, we'll vote in a Democratic leader, a true liberal leader to undo Trump's shenangians. Till then, let's bite through the collateral damage caused by him and Clinton's jokes.
Moreover, what do you expect? Yeah she fecked up, so she should die?? While you may not get me, I also don't get you. As much as Republicans are culpable, those separated children's cries are on your hands too for voting Harambe.
the arrogance of saying there are two people on the ballot. its almost hard to imagine why the democrats have lost the senate the house the presidency and most state governments to the republicans
maybe you are comfortable voting for war mongerers who drone strike wedding parties and call for children to be deported. im not
IQ=/=Decency or a well rounded, rational moral center. Most serial killers and successful despots were likely of above average intelligence.
College educated whites were the people that put Trump in the position where he is today.
Why do you believe that?
Breakdown of votes in 2016 US Presidential election:
High School or Less: Trump 51% > Clinton 45%
Some college (no degree): Trump 52% > Clinton 43%
College Graduate: Clinton 49% > Trump 45%
Postgraduate: Clinton 58% > Trump 37%
Trump ONLY beat Clinton among those without a college degree. Clinton beat Trump in both categories of 'higher education'.
When you break it down to just whites, the split is even more stark:
Whites without college degree: Trump 67% > Clinton 28%
Whites who graduated college: Trump 49% > Clinton 45%
I'm just curious why there's this belief that Trump won because of educated whites. It's simply not true. He won because of uneducated whites. By an absolute landslide. If you include all races, he didn't win a single category who graduated college.
Now intelligence absolutely is not measured by degrees, however I'd strongly argue that if the majority of educated votes in a country as big as the US vote one way, it's probably the more INFORMED choice.
Face it, loads and loads of Trump voters did not vote based on issues, facts, policies or anything past their 'gut' - which was almost entirely formed from watching US pravda.
Not true. Even his ‘successes,’ namely
Your last statement is simply not true. Below are a few examples that non-educated white voters were a massive thrust for Trump (in fact, those with college degrees actually moved slightly towards Clinton):
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-trump-got-his-edge/
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...s-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/
On point.
This is a fantastic post.
The biggest reason Trump president is because the democrats somehow managed to pick the one person in the USA who is less likeable than Trump.
Calm down. You do realize that some people actually LIKE her position, we don't live in a "the further left the better" world.
She made some mistakes during the campaign, but it's inescapable that she'd most likely still have won without Comey.
Most of what she said during the campaign was very true, Sanders had a lot of good ideas, but no viable way of financing them, Trump supporters are mostly deplorables. Her biggest mistake was she was too honest and overestimated the collective rationality and intelligence of middle America.
Except for the plans he laid out for financing them through specific taxation measures. Which made everyone go "$60b?! There is no magic money tree!!!!", until the GOP randomly decide to just piss $1.5 TRILLION up against the wall, and that's apparently fine.
Oh gosh really? Well that makes it completely reasonable to say it publicly then, and piss off every parent, family member and close friend of a Trump supporter. Do you realize how many people didn't vote for her because she'd just attacked their kids? It was the most stupid thing she did in a campaign full of stupid.
Her biggest mistake was being a godawful political campaigner, and thinking that you can GOTV in the same way you can excite policy experts at a conference. She's a policy wonk and had absolutely no business being nominated for a national campaign. Especially after fecking up the last one too.