What’s going on at Nottingham Forest?

On understat, they are 9th on expected points, the lowest of 3 teams (City, Newcastle, Forest) on 31. Their xG is 30.49 compared to 29 goals scored, while xGA is 24.71 compared to 19 goals conceded. On xGA they are 3rd behind Liverpool and Arsenal, though 4 xG difference. In terms of goals conceded, currently joint 2nd, one goal behind Arsenal. Their individual results don't look that fortunate to me, only the wins against Liverpool and United are a big surprise relative to the xG. A couple of other wins, the margin is much greater than the xG would suggest.

I think there's a few other games where you can look at xG and see they've not necessarily got totally lucky but that things have at least gone nicely for them.

A very rudimentary way of doing it, but I think if 2 teams play a match and are within 0.50 xG of each other then it's not a clear cut and obvious win should either side get the victory. This is just my own way of looking at that in shorthand terms, nothing statistical about it. My reasoning behind that is that if there's less than a goal between the teams on xG, even when rounding up then there's likely to be less than a goal between them on the actual scoresheet too, i.e. a draw.

So if a team registers 0.85 more than their opponent I'd be saying it's near enough to 1 so a one goal win seems about right, but if they got 0.3 more than opponent it's closer to a draw.

Anyway - based on this shitty "model" if you can even call it that,

Bournemouth H = -0.67 xG, closer to losing than drawing +1 point
Liverpool A = -0.58 xG, won when they were more likely to lose +3
Chelsea A = -0.61 xG, closer to losing than drawing +1
United A = -0.82 xG, won they were closer to losing +3
Brentford A = +0.19 xG, won when they were closer to drawing +2
Tottenham H = +0.24xG, won when they were closer to drawing +2

All the other games were within line of what that extremely basic way of looking at it might expect. There have been zero games where they've registered more than 0.50xG than their opposition and failed to win in the way Chelsea and Bournemouth did against them. There have been zero games where their opponents have beaten them when the xG was within 0.50 like they did to Brentford and Spurs. There has been nothing at all going against them to extent that the United/Liverpool matches went for them.

Actual expected points doesn't work like that of course, it looks at every individual shot rather than cumulative xG.

Still, I don't think it's completely awful, my method would put them on an overachivement for sure and it would highlight teams that have done that where it's been obvious. It's exaggerated compared to the expected points when done properly but it would be as it's so basic. A 12 point gain on my simple method, 8.67 with what I trust is the proper way of doing it on Understat.

You can definitely say that at least one of the Brentford or Spurs wins could have been a draw, won the "xG battle" both times but only very narrowly. There's no great injustice, just 2 tightly fought wins there. Or perhaps one of the Chelsea/Bournemouth draws could have been a loss, again nothing shocking, but on another day they very much could have lost either or both.

They're the ones you could perhaps look at to add to the more obvious United/Liverpool matches where they were fortunate to get as many points as they did.
 
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xPts table reveals a lot about them IMO. On paper, they remind me a bit of 22/23 United, playing a very deep defensive line and not pressing high that much. It's an unsustainable approach, just like it was for us 2 seasons ago.
 
xPts table reveals a lot about them IMO. On paper, they remind me a bit of 22/23 United, playing a very deep defensive line and not pressing high that much. It's an unsustainable approach, just like it was for us 2 seasons ago.
Difference is their recruitment has been, and with the addition of edu is likely to remain, top notch.

Obvious that Liverpool will collapse (injuries, loss of form and burnout) as too many of their players have played too much football. Slot hasnt rotated his big players. Would be amazing to see Forest be the beneficiaries rather than arteta’s arsenal.
 
What. point are. you.....trying to. make there?
No.
but seriously ill people do it for you.
another woman has come forward. concerning antony
and its been alleged that the club. especially invited a. convicted paedophile. to a womens league match...I find it incredible if this particular story is true....Man Utd is such a big club. you think they'd be careful about things like that
It seems that it has been going on for quite a while.
 
your friendly resident. forest fan. here.....its just about getting together a team whose players have got more. to gain together than they're ever going to get if they go off. individually with another team
no, we. won't get anywhere near the title and could well not make Europe, but its. been a. great ride.
as the. spurs boss said. to Brennan Johnson when we. reluctantly. let him go. last. season......dont. forget, you're. at. a big club now...
congrats on your. performance. against city.....youll soon be climbing the league again
Shatner. Or... Walken?
 
first off all, sorry...I meant the performance against liverpool
being nearer to the top than usual is giving me dizzy spells
the dots are because I'm disabled and have problems typing, so its maybe easier to start a new line.
what I meant to say. is that forest are doing well because of sheer. hard work, the right manager, and. especially because the players that we have know they'd be drowned in a. so called bigger. team.
they can only do well if they really do work together.

it won't last forever of course.
Gibbs whites contract expires soon, and Liverpool have been sniffing around. a few players.
balancing act of keeping egos in check. while bolstering confidence
 
They're playing massively effective counter attacking football. Nice to see a different style of play tbh.
 
Saw takes online that they're better than the title winning Leicester team, playing in a more competitive league. Dunno if I agree but it'd be an interesting match up.
 
We laughed at all the players they purchased, but when the wheat from the chaff was separated they bought some good players in there. Then have now brought in a good manager to get the best out of them. Hope they get that CL place will make a refreshing change.
 
Sacking Cooper caused an uproar for no reason in the end
 
Saw takes online that they're better than the title winning Leicester team, playing in a more competitive league. Dunno if I agree but it'd be an interesting match up.
Recency bias.
Leicester were far from a vintage PL winner but had peak Kante, Vardy, Mahrez and Maguire. All credit to Forest for their fantastic season but they're a bit short of that Leicester team.
 
Recency bias.
Leicester were far from a vintage PL winner but had peak Kante, Vardy, Mahrez and Maguire. All credit to Forest for their fantastic season but they're a bit short of that Leicester team.

Maguire wasn't there. He is no PL winner. They had Wes Morgan
 
Tbh they might have more decent players overall than Leicester did, even if they don’t have the quality of Leicesters big 3
 
Well done to them and well done overall. To do what they're doing at the fag end of the season is incredible.
 
Didn't Maguire join the season after. Huth and Morgan were there I think.

Maguire wasn't there. He is no PL winner. They had Wes Morgan

Maguire has no PL medal anyways

How would things have panned out if Maguire did join Utd as a PL winner? Would things have went the same way or would we have seen a different and better Harry coming into Utd with the confidence and experience that winning the league brings you?
 
How would things have panned out if Maguire did join Utd as a PL winner? Would things have went the same way or would we have seen a different and better Harry coming into Utd with the confidence and experience that winning the league brings you?
Might have cost even more if he had been a PL winner.
 
Saw takes online that they're better than the title winning Leicester team, playing in a more competitive league. Dunno if I agree but it'd be an interesting match up.

Forest have a better overall squad, and more strength in depth.

But Leicester had Vardy, Mahrez and Kante who were all elite players in a rich vein of form. The rest were average to good players having the season of their lives whilst Forest players are actually quite good but probably performing above their level overall.
 
Sacking Cooper caused an uproar for no reason in the end

It’s always the case when a “smaller” club has the audacity to sack their manager. Lots of uproar. How dare they aspire for more than their lot.
 
What an utter shambles of a club we are that I'm struggling to think of any of our lot who would get into the Forest team. Forest FFS. Three years ago they were promoted with 25 loan players and Brennan Johnson.

fecking shambles.