No we don't. Some of you need to actually study football, some tactical and technical part of it. Watch the analytics etc. Like that:
htps://x.com/tekzts/status/1871229418300944679
htps://x.com/tekzts/status/1871229418300944679
We've got a Top 4 squad...
- Thread starter M Bison
- Start date
Definitely not a top four squad, but we’re only a couple of players short of being much more productive and competitive against most teams in the league.
They are better individually because their teams are playing well as a whole. If the team was struggling, the individual players wouldn’t be playing well, which was the original point.
The Bournmouth game would say otherwise. Our squad is nowhere near top four. Not even midtable. Start off by replacing our goalie and then work through the whole team starting at the back. A class CB for example. We've got plenty of them but none of them are good enough. Yoro we obviously don't know about yet. Same thing through the whole team/squad. We may have a choice of 3 players in every position but it makes no difference who he puts in. Example: Höjlund/Zirkzee. Rashford/Garnacho
Etc etc.
Probably Maz, Bruno, Amad, Mainoo are the only players in our aquad who would start in a team in the top half of the table.
Etc etc.
Probably Maz, Bruno, Amad, Mainoo are the only players in our aquad who would start in a team in the top half of the table.
I'd also keep Ugarte from what I've seen recently.
how many PL-goals did Hojlund score last season?
Bruno is not a great winger. Therefore, Martinelli, Gakpo, Sancho, Kulusevski and Son would all play ahead of him out wide. You shoehorned Johnson in there, but he’s not a starter when everyone is fit.
Bruno is not a great box-to-box midfielder, either. So Szoboszolai, McGinn and Tielemans would all keep their places in their very effective midfields where they are comfortable playing deeper and being disciplined both in and out of possession.
Interestingly, you made no comparisons between Bruno and those who actually play closest to his position in other teams (Palmer / Odegaard / de Bruyne / Maddison). Funny that.
If United had a top 4 squad… they wouldn’t be 13th. If United had a player the league leaders would drop their best performing midfielder for… they wouldn’t have negative goal difference.
I acknowledge that it’s possible to oversimplify analysis. But sometimes, the simplest explanation is also the most accurate one.
Not a top four squad, but not a bottom half one either. Easily could have about 6 or 7 more points, which puts United. . . .somewhere between 5-8th. That’s about right.
A top 4 squad? You're having a laugh.
You could argue that it should be higher than where it is but that's a different argument.
You could argue that it should be higher than where it is but that's a different argument.
This is joke, no?
So many no consideration of mentality. Bruno may be talent, but Liverpool, Arsenal, City would not even consider such a player.
He had 10 last year so fair enough. He'll have to go some just to match that this year.
The top 4 teams last season had 10 players between them with 10 or more goals between them. They had 156 between them for Hojlind and Bruno’s 20.
We're talking about having a top four squad. We'd need Hojlund to suddenly be twice as good AND still need one of our other forwards to suddenly get 20 odd league goals.
Of that list, only Mazraoui has played consistently well this season (and like @ArtetasHair, I would like him at Arsenal as, the out of favour Tierney aside, we don’t have any FBs who prefer to keep their width - but even then I’m not sure I’d bench both Timber and White for him). Onana has been dropping clangers and flapping at set pieces for an extended period, while de Ligt has often been outperformed by the much maligned Maguire.
I think this is emblematic of the problem. Onana and de Ligt both have high ceilings. They were both brilliant at Ajax, I was lucky enough to watch them live at the ArenA. But that was half a decade ago and neither have consistently performed that level since. So yes, when you include their names in a list of players that would start at City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea, it seems plausible. But when you actually watch them play… it becomes a lot less plausible.
We absolutely don't have a top four quality squad, and I wish people would stop talking like we're entitled to make the top four, we're not.
The proof is even more evident now that we're getting a good share of possession and creating quite a lot of chances. Top four level players don't miss the number of chances ours do, nor do they make the number of mistakes we do that lead to goals.
I don't for one second believe that our players are as bad as people like to pretend on this forum, but I also don't think they have some extra level to be squeezed out of them that will make us a top four team.
I said similar to this in a different thread, but the problem for me is that too many players have one or two strengths, but also come with considerable weaknesses/limitations whether it be lack of pace, lack of stamina, poor decision making, poor concentration...whatever it may be. In my opinion we have too many players with weaknesses that have as big an impact on our games as their strengths (even more so at times).
If we want to be competing at a higher level, we're going to need some more players that don't have such glaring limitations.
If you look at the Liverpool team that's top of the league at the moment, they have a couple of properly class players, but the majority of the team aren't world class, they don't really have noteable weaknesses though. Lots of players with decent physical attributes, and decent footballers as well. We don't have near that consistency across our squad.
The proof is even more evident now that we're getting a good share of possession and creating quite a lot of chances. Top four level players don't miss the number of chances ours do, nor do they make the number of mistakes we do that lead to goals.
I don't for one second believe that our players are as bad as people like to pretend on this forum, but I also don't think they have some extra level to be squeezed out of them that will make us a top four team.
I said similar to this in a different thread, but the problem for me is that too many players have one or two strengths, but also come with considerable weaknesses/limitations whether it be lack of pace, lack of stamina, poor decision making, poor concentration...whatever it may be. In my opinion we have too many players with weaknesses that have as big an impact on our games as their strengths (even more so at times).
If we want to be competing at a higher level, we're going to need some more players that don't have such glaring limitations.
If you look at the Liverpool team that's top of the league at the moment, they have a couple of properly class players, but the majority of the team aren't world class, they don't really have noteable weaknesses though. Lots of players with decent physical attributes, and decent footballers as well. We don't have near that consistency across our squad.
We don’t have a top 3 squad, that much is obvious. Pool, City and Arsenal are way ahead in their team building... But we have squad on a similar level to Chelsea, this should guarantee a top 5 finish…. Normally we got what it takes to outperform Spurs, N’Castle and Villa.
Making top 5 is enough for CL this year, and will be most years.
Making top 5 is enough for CL this year, and will be most years.
I presume the thread title is a question because in all seriousness it cannot possibly be a statement!
Bournemouth proved on the weekend that they are a better team than us and they will be doing real well if they can finish top ten.
Bournemouth proved on the weekend that they are a better team than us and they will be doing real well if they can finish top ten.
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That last part on wages is key and something I did will have to seriously look at to pull a good plan off. At Chelsea they aren’t just looking at performances, they are looking at production versus wage investment, assuming book value drop doesn’t have to be included in cost yo the club.
Chelsea would probably go Yoro as our first pick from your squad. You might think it’d be De Logt, which could still be right on, but Colwill really needs to be paired with someone with pace and they’d LOVE Yoro’s profile.
After that … Hojlund. Maz as a RCB?
I think if you fix the service and cohesion behind him, Hojlund has a fantastic skillset for his size. On limited money I wouldn’t sweat a striker signing just just.
Kerkez, Hincapie, Brahim Diaz, Dibling and another young pair of legs in midfield rum. The scouts… that’d be my first steps in rebuild.
Top 4 in the championship maybe. In epl the table don’t lie.
The strikers and wingers arnt productive enough to get top 4.
Bruno's not a winger. He's a #10 who's made for counter-attackinng football. Soboszlai is a workhorse, He's there everywhere in the pitch when you need him making those tackles to winning those aerial duels. There's no doubting that Bruno's a more talented player than Soboszlai , but Liverpool doesn't have a role for Bruno.
Same goes for Arsenal, City and Chelsea. Where do you fit him in? Arsenal have Odegaard, City have KDB, Chelsea don't play the traditional #10's. And both Odegaard and KDB do much more without the ball than Bruno in addition to their play with the ball.
I was only referring to the top 4 sides. Sure he gets into Tottenham, Villa etc. But it's not as if they have a Bruno shaped hole that they are desperate to fill up. Tottenham has Maddison, Villa has Tielemans. Both who do a fine job as the 10.
We fit Bruno into our side because he's our best player. The other teams won't build their team around Bruno. They've got their players to build their teams on already.
That's an awful take if it's not sarcasm. As many chances as Bruno can create, he's nowhere near the footballer Odegaard is, definitely not benching him.
Exactly. So it’s not really fair to claim he hasn’t proved he can score ten. There are too many false claims flowing around from people with an agenda (not saying you have one).
He scored 16 goals in total last season. That would usually be seen as quite acceptable for a striker in his first season in the Prem. When you consider that Hojlund was 19 yo, had a couple of injuries and thrown in as the main striker in a dysfunctional team not playing to his strength - 16 goals is at worst very good.
That said I agree we need him to score more. But you can’t judge him solely on his goal tally so far as implied when you equate twice as many goals with him being twice as good. We’ve been in shambles this season and that includes Hojlund. But he has already shown what he can do and being young with the right mentality he’ll most likely improve from here under Amorim. Is he good enough to lead the line? I’ll reserve my judgment until the end of the season, but he’s most certainly good enough to be a squad player atm.
The age profile alone stops it being a top 4 squad.
You can't have so many players either too young or too old. Which we have.
I see people talking about Amass or let's sign Dibling. Forget that for now.
The club has to bite the bullet and sign a few in that 24-27 bracket. Guys at their peak.
You can't have so many players either too young or too old. Which we have.
I see people talking about Amass or let's sign Dibling. Forget that for now.
The club has to bite the bullet and sign a few in that 24-27 bracket. Guys at their peak.
I'm not picking on any individuals. The thread is about having a top 4 squad, which we don't.
Hojlunddid fine in his first season, but top 4 teams had multiple players who scored more league goals than him...he was our joint top scorer with Bruno.
This is kind of the point. Even with him performing at a level you would say is fine, it isn't good enough for top 4. So we don't have a top 4 squad.
How good some of our players might or might not be in a few years is not the same discussion and I think is also naive.
For example regardless of how he might improve I don't think Hojlund is getting 20 league goals in this team unless he has better wingers and a better team behind him.
We have SOME players who could be part of a top 4 squad. We also have some who could easily play for a team that gets relegated.
There was someone earlier in this thread arguing because we have 3-4 players who might get in Arsenal's team that proves we could challenge for top 4. Arsenal probably have 16 players who could get in our team and 6 or 7 who just would.
I agree with all of that.
Replies like these just prove how overrated Odegaard has become at this point.
Bruno is comfortably a better #10 than him, but I guess Odegaard has good looking body feints!
We lack, pace, energy n ability throughout the team, to be a top 4 side
We definitely have a worse squad than City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Not even debatable, so at best we have the 5th best squad in the league, and even then I reckon the likes of Spurs, Newcastle and Villa are at least on par with us, while Brighton, Bournemouth and seemingly even Forest have more cohesive units even if quality might not be at that level.
It's sort of academic really. Top 4 isn't the aim for this season and this group won't be anywhere near it. It will be the aim for next season, but the squad will have been at least partially refreshed by then.
Afraid not. Bruno does absolutely nothing off the ball and has a terrible attitude when losing. It's why Ozil, one of the most talented players we ever had, was binned.
For Arsenal and City and Liverpool half the play is about constant running and tracking back and not getting your head down. Bruno does not excel at any of these factors.
Not doubting his talent but talent alone isn't enough.
I look at our players, notice half of them are too slow for the league, mentally and physically and half of them can't make a pass under pressure and I really don't get how anyone can think that we have a set of good players here that could make top 4.
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Top 4 in Slovenia seems possible with this squad..
While we may not be Top 4. We are definitely Top 5 or 6. We are not as bad as 13.
While I understand that the manger is new and sign no players yet, he has to improve to at least finish top 5-8. Next year when he signed his own players we should be looking at Top 4. Year after next, fingers crossed challenge for the title. This is the expectations as Man Utd manager.
While I understand that the manger is new and sign no players yet, he has to improve to at least finish top 5-8. Next year when he signed his own players we should be looking at Top 4. Year after next, fingers crossed challenge for the title. This is the expectations as Man Utd manager.
I think we’ve got every chance of getting UCL place, in the Eredivisie.
Totally agree, see it virtually every week
There is a disconnect between how good many think our players are and how good they actually are in comparison to the average PL player.
When was the last time we went and bought any PL team's best forward or midfielder?
The money isn't there to do it any more but that's what we built a lot of our success on.
When was the last time we went and bought any PL team's best forward or midfielder?
The money isn't there to do it any more but that's what we built a lot of our success on.
We're 17 games into the Season and our top scorer(s) have 4 PL goals. Top 4 squad!? 
I think the idea is that coaching can influence how a team which can look good or bad on paper can play. I agree with that ideaWe're 17 games into the Season and our top scorer(s) have 4 PL goals. Top 4 squad!?
Agree. Mental the amount of people here that don't agree with this. It is always the same with a new manager that they like, they made the same excuses for ten hag until they turned on him. Would be better to be balanced from the start and ask the manager to improve the players he has and then add, exactly as you have said. All these guys have a strange blind spot to that thinking.
Our offensive players are shite. They were shite under Ten Hag and they're shite now. This notion that a bit of coaching will suddenly make them start banging in the goals left, right, center is bollocks. Football simply doesn't work that way.
You can polish a rough diamond only to a certain degree and we have far too many players in the squad that are simply not cut out to play at top level. It seems crazy to me that fans can watch the last 20 odd months of United and think that our squad is top quality. It isn't. We're perhaps under performing a little bit due to defensive errors but our offensive lineup is the worst it's been in decades.