Westminster Politics
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As opposed to voting for them and teaching them they can make promises then change their mind when they feel like grabbing someone else's vote or courting some other lobby.
This should be a moment for self-reflection on their part, not recriminations for people who feel alienated by their politics and bait and switches.
Is that the joke? What's the punchline - that trans folks make up a small percentage of the UK population? And agree - it's given disproportionate coverage but it's part of the overall culture war taking place. Sunak (and Starmer) know this.
I think both are cnuts for politicising it.
(Did Sunak know her mother was in the chamber?) If he did - he should have avoided mentioning anything at all about it - there's a litany of U-turns that Starmer's made without even having to use the trans stuff. So that's why he's a cnut (if he knew she was there). If he didn't know she was there, he's still a cnut.
Starmer is obviously going to weaponise that in this charade anyway, despite Labour U-turning on their trans pledges. So that's why he's a cnut.
I just feel bad for the mum - having to sit through this bollocks while these two cnuts, who really don't give a shit about her dead daughter, are going back and forth with barbs and insults. The state of this country is in the gutter.
So you don't think the economic health of the country has changed at all in this last few years?
How can it not be linked? One of the murderers holds transphobic beliefs.
Rishi Sunak attacks Keir Starmer for linking trans jibe with Brianna Ghey case
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68237826
Why can't we feck Sunak off to Rwanda and Piers can win his bet?
Rishi Sunak attacks Keir Starmer for linking trans jibe with Brianna Ghey case
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68237826
Why can't we feck Sunak off to Rwanda and Piers can win his bet?
But you’re ignoring my point. What do you think would have filled the media headlines if Starmer decided not to hold Sunak to account for his comments?
Oh I absolutely do, but I happen to think the climate is a priority issue that can't be put off, I don't want to see my daughter's generation let down, and it will also feed into energy, immigration* and employment. I also feel strongly about Trans rights and they've let me down there.
*Everyone wants to pretend they'll deal with immigration but always on a superficial level, rather than attacking the causes, of which climate change will be a huge driver in the coming decades. I'm less concerned about immigration to be honest, but I'd like to see these point scorers actually admit we have a role to play on a wider scale and contributed to crises that are already occurring.
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this argument used by the tories of their opponents 'politicising' things / playing politics, when they criticise tory behaviour is so pathetic, and yet it clearly does resonate with some of the population, as they use it again and again. at the next election, it should a question (after youve shown your ID), do you think the opposition are politicising issues, which is abhorrent and so unfair?, if the person answers yes, then they should be taken out the back and shot.
Sunak would come off looking worse if Starmer hadn’t said anything. The dad has called on Sunak to apologise which I’d assume he would have done anyway, and other political commentators would have picked up on it. (Big if).
You may be right of course and Starmer would have got more flack for not saying anything at all.
I find this whole situation just so callous being done in front of a mum who’s lost their daughter.
I thought that article read like it had been written by the Tory campaign team so looked up the author Kate Whannel and the first article I found was this wonderful 50p Lee puff piece.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66998184
I think this Labour party leadership are hyper focused on polling, public perception and winning the next election at all costs, and are running more to the centre than they would naturally be because of public sentiment and the right wing media due to political pragmatism.
I may be delusional though since it's a hope.
The Remain lobby in the UK was pathetic and still is. Labour were absolutely hopeless. Trying to pretend Corbyn was pro remain was ridiculous and the Tories who supported remain were too. There were just too many lies. Remember when 80 million Turks were going to come.
Meanwhile the UK had all the power to put the minimum wage at whatever level they liked. The levels set by the EU were the absolute minimums.
The biggest problem was that people didn't really understand what they were voting for, only what they were told they were voting for.
Nothing much has changed in that respect and remainers wanting to join the single market and/or the CU without joining the EU obviously still don't fully understand either.
The bottom line is that governments and parties use the flag waving and xenophobia to distract the electorate away from their own incompetence. It works.
Has it changed much since two days ago when Starmer was still pretending the policy was going ahead?
We’ve got a by election next week because Chris Skidmore resigned. The Labour campaigner that knocked on my door I pressed fairly hard because I’m horrified with the direction Labour is moving. She claimed that how Labour campaign and how Labour will govern is two different things and she’s been involved in meetings at the heart of Labour and they’re still working closely, albeit quietly with Unions.
I’ll believe it when I see it, it sounds like a line to sate progressives and actions speak louder than words and both their actions and their public words are doing nothing but shift the Overton window right at the moment.
I think the tactic is to cut the Tories off the centre ground to soak up moderate vote, and cause division in the Tories and pushing them further right making them even less electable.
After being principled and getting nowhere close to winning outside of when the Tories told their core voters that they wanted to steal their children's inheritance I can see why they have adopted the stance.
Obviously the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so we'll (hopefully) see how they govern and hopefully see attempts to win the argument on why centre left politics are to the benefit of everyone.
I reckon 90% of Tory Mp's would take the chance to definitely be Prime minister for 6 months rather than be leader of the opposition for 5 years.
There's a feeling amongst some of them that she'd limit the scale of the defeat, and I sort of think they might be right. The only hope that the Tories have now is to win back disenchanted ex tory voters and I think Mordaunt would be more likely to do that.
That might be a reasonable argument if they'd have adjusted all their policies together off the back of an OBR/treasury modelling
As it is they seemingly do it with no clear rationale and it's impossible to know week to week which policies they'll drop. Truly can anyone say what the priority is of this Labour leadership? They claim a key priority one week and then drop it the next.
And that's a completely fair, rational argument (which for what it's worth I completely agree with).
My only issue is that, the country is so broken, that committing so much to any single cause is going to draw so much heat away from others (even though it's probably the only way to actually go about it). When you think about the 'main' issues, and this is just off the top of my head:
- CPS backlog, lacking numbers of lawyers & judges, courthouses etc in a state of decay
- Prisons at a horrific point of overcrowding, more needing to be built, and many in a state of decay
- Police, staffing & wages, dealing with institutional issues
- Schooling, staffing and wages, outdated education practices, buildings falling apart, CAMHS backlogs and SEN provisions lacking in so many area
- NHS, where to f*cking start
- Dentistry, see above, people literally pulling out their teeth
- Benefits
- Infrastructure, roads in disrepair, housing targets, social housing etc
Their priority is not to spook the markets and cost the country £50 billion like Lizz Truss. Then do what they can afford to do.
I know its crazy.
I know its crazy.
Did she not realise this means she is saying the party is lying to the public in order to win votes ?
Oh you don’t agree with Starmer well don’t worry he is actually just lying all the time! I guess the lack of policy means this is the only “argument” they’ve got but it seems very strange to brag about to voters.
A political party which would completely change policy when in power would be pretty bad for any democracy regardless of their politics.
We live in a strange world where both insane media like GB news and labour campaigners agree there is a socialist conspiracy to take over the British government by stealth.
Why is he smirking when talking about a serious matter? I really despise this cnut.
I would agree with most of the above, however, the highlighted bit though I think is almost always true, and it's a mistake that Cameron failed to avoid. Having recently won a GE, seen off the SNP on independence, he was 'cock-a-hoop' and going for the treble, mainly to see off his 'bother-boys' in the Tory party who had always wanted out. What he failed to see was that whilst there was one clear reason for voting remain, there were umpteen reasons, real and imagined for voting to leave, and that's what did for him... and for staying in the EU. With 52% believing that leaving the EU would solve 'their' particular grumble.
Que Sera, Sera!
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Mass civil disobedience.
Personally I believe we're at the point now where maintaining the status quo and continuing with the political system we have is only going to further increase inequality and exacerbate the issues we're facing.
Things aren't going to get better under neo liberalism and still believing that Starmer getting into power will make any sort of difference is genuinely mind boggling. Even worse is people somehow acting like he's the only option we have to bring about meaningful change.
Except he only won the GE based on this, because of his fear about UKIP and those to the further right of his own Party.
And I'm sorry, but 'Que Sera, Sera!' - what?!?!? How about you go to the people who's small / medium sized businesses have gone under because of the friction & costs of trading with our neighbours now. Tell that to the students who potentially we're planning or hoping to use ERASMUS or similar schemes to study abroad without friction. Or how about the touring musicians (not the Elton Johns of this world) who now face the expense of needing paperwork for every single country they tour in for their equipment? Or anyone in the NHS waiting lists as thousands of NHS staff who didn't have or couldn't afford to apply for settled status left to 'go back home', or the same for dentists and teachers? How about those who had the right to study here taken away from them, or had the cost of doing so multiply exponentially!
Que se-fecking-ra!
Yeah, it's perfectly affordable to let the school and hospital system fall into rack and ruin. No bill to foot there. This is a continuous refrain made by those that find it easier to add up columns on a sheet of paper than attend to the less exact matter of fixing the crumbling columns holding up the room they're sitting in.
It is strange that out of an election campaign the BBC are doing a live feed on this green policy for labour. What are the Tory's doing, they actually have power, yet there is nothing on them at all. It's bizarre.
Also it looks like the EU are backing down to the farm protests and binning/ delaying their environmental targets.
Blah blah blah says a man in a dream world. We can't pretend away the reality that we have to borrow the money to run things as they are and those lending that money will stop doing so if you don't cost your plans.
You are just the other side of the coin of Liz Truss special thinking.
What's the goal here? Genuine question.
Let's say Starmer wins and comes in and implements his Tory lite policies. What happens then? He's already telling us not to expect anything will get better because there's no money, so at best we have to assume things in this country are going to stay at the same shitty level for another five years.
But what happens after that? We've already seen austerity doesn't work or actually improve an economy. So what happens after five years of Labour austerity? The economy is still going to be trash so where then is the money going to come from to improve things? Do you think that this time austerity will work because it's happening under Labour?
The Tories get reelected and show Labour how to run a country properly.
Who said Labour shouldn't cost their plans?
Is that really your assumption because someone said maybe don't let schools and hospitals crumble?
The Tories have pushed up the national debt by £1.3 trillion in 14 years. And made the country fall apart.
It’s worth reminding everyone @Don't Kill Bill thinks climate change is like going to your local GP
It’s just a waste of time to even attempt to debate this level on nonsense.
It’s just a waste of time to even attempt to debate this level on nonsense.
Cause he’s very uncomfortable and the last place he wants to be is in front of a camera.
Who said anything about not costing plans? By all means let's have some costed plans!! Your type would rather build a straw man than a school. Instead of a costed program of investment you'd just rather a managed decline. Maybe because it's slightly easier to write down on a ledger.
Yeah but the deficit… or something.
We just had a load of coated plans Labour scrapped. Because this leadership give the impression of not understanding basic economics.
Read my post above. Don't spook the market. If Labour does then we will be just as fecked as we were by Truss' budget.
How does Starmer help anyone or any of the issues you want addressing if we push the limit on borrowing any further because what scares me is how quickly people forget just how bad that was.
Look at the debt level and interest payments and explain to me how you are going to raise tax levels high enough to afford a wish list of spending commitments?
Over time, with great difficulty and still loads of hardship to come for most people, Labour can turn this around by doing the right things. There isn't any short cut and more borrowing for growth only works if you are not already massively in debt to the limit the markets will allow. Which we pretty much are right now.
Its depressing but sometimes the truth is depressing. Hiding from it doesn't help, and you better believe that things can and will get much worse if we try.
Out of context and wrong as usual. I was addressing why a good idea you could afford before might not be a good idea if you find out you are billions and billions of pounds further in debt.
Never let the facts change your mind though do you Sweet and when you can't answer the point attack the poster that is great form too. Well done very consistent.