Westminster Politics

711 said:
Maybe it's just kneejerking, whatever the government/other side do it must be wrong.
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:lol: Spot on! I keeping voting against the government but it keeps on getting back in!

The end of Blast furnaces was always on the cards in a country trying to sell its green credentials to the world.
Big blow for Welsh economy though.
Lets hope our future generations don't ever have the need to produce its own steel from scratch.
 
Maticmaker said:
:lol: Spot on! I keeping voting against the government but it keeps on getting back in!

The end of Blast furnaces was always on the cards in a country trying to sell its green credentials to the world.
Big blow for Welsh economy though.
Lets hope our future generations don't ever have the need to produce its own steel from scratch.
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When were being price gouged by China, I'm sure we'll lament it.
 
Jippy said:
Heh his name is Ian Sharer and he's certainly spread the love, according to the local rag.

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/hackney-...after-turbulent-cazenove-by-election-contest/

Also that article seems to put it more down to a Jewish community vote and opposition to a low traffic scheme, though it does reference the blackface controversy too.
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It’s my girlfriend’s Ward. Highest density of Jewish folks anywhere outside of Israel. The Labour door knockers were making it very clear that they expected to be beaten, and that the Palestine situation is the reason why.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It’s my girlfriend’s Ward. Highest density of Jewish folks anywhere outside of Israel. The Labour door knockers were making it very clear that they expected to be beaten, and that the Palestine situation is the reason why.
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Don't see why though. Starmer is every bit as much of an Israeli apologist as the Tories are.

Unless this community is the orthodox anti-Zionist variety.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
When were being price gouged by China, I'm sure we'll lament it.
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Don't worry, most of UK iron/ steel imports are from the EU (don't mention Brexit) -

Main exporters of iron and steel products to the United Kingdom 2022
Published by Statista Research Department, Dec 18, 2023
Germany was the largest export country of iron and steel products to the United Kingdom. In 2022, approximately 564.7 million British pounds worth of these items were bought from German manufacturers. Following Germany, Spain and Belgium ranked second and third, with 547.5 and 435.5 million British pounds, respectively.

Italy, Turkey and France made up the top 6.
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Paul the Wolf said:
Don't worry, most of UK iron/ steel imports are from the EU (don't mention Brexit) -

Main exporters of iron and steel products to the United Kingdom 2022
Published by Statista Research Department, Dec 18, 2023
Germany was the largest export country of iron and steel products to the United Kingdom. In 2022, approximately 564.7 million British pounds worth of these items were bought from German manufacturers. Following Germany, Spain and Belgium ranked second and third, with 547.5 and 435.5 million British pounds, respectively.

Italy, Turkey and France made up the top 6.
Slide1.PNG
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I'm so old fashioned, I'd just start about nine here tbh.
 
Kaos said:
Don't see why though. Starmer is every bit as much of an Israeli apologist as the Tories are.

Unless this community is the orthodox anti-Zionist variety.
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It very much is. Largest Hasidic Jewish community in Europe.

The LTN that was installed also didn’t have exemptions for Jewish private school buses. So a massive clump of people given two reasons to vote Tory.
 
An election can't be far off now, the Tories are clearly going to try and spin the next election as a referendum on immigration. All their recent language about it being a constitutional crisis/will of the people etc suggest they'll take it to the public. I reckon within the next month it'll be announced.

The only other reasoning would be if they're forcing Rishi to go down a path of failure so they can replace him with Cameron. It seems unlikely but they've not a lot to lose.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
... We will shortly buy the steel from China, Korea or India instead and ship it around the world and then claim we saved the planet by reducing our CO2 emissions.

The arc furnaces will remelt scrap and if the energy grid is greenish the steel will be too. But good luck trying to meet the tramp element specs or make rail steels or cheap rebar using arc furnaces. Get ready for huge rises in prices and knock on delays in construction projects.
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No, because that's covered by TCFD reports as Scope 3 emissions. It'll essentially be counted as domestic emissions by the UK company as things stand.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It’s my girlfriend’s Ward. Highest density of Jewish folks anywhere outside of Israel. The Labour door knockers were making it very clear that they expected to be beaten, and that the Palestine situation is the reason why.
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Oh boy, wait til you get to Muslim Labour strongholds. Or should I say very soon to be ex-Labour.
 
Smores said:
An election can't be far off now, the Tories are clearly going to try and spin the next election as a referendum on immigration. All their recent language about it being a constitutional crisis/will of the people etc suggest they'll take it to the public. I reckon within the next month it'll be announced.

The only other reasoning would be if they're forcing Rishi to go down a path of failure so they can replace him with Cameron. It seems unlikely but they've not a lot to lose.
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Not quite that soon, there will be tax cuts in the spring budget, 06th March, first. I'm sure they were hoping for falls in boat people, inflation and interest rates in the near future as well, but those are looking a bit dodgier now.
 
711 said:
Not quite that soon, there will be tax cuts in the spring budget, 06th March, first. I'm sure they were hoping for falls in boat people, inflation and interest rates in the near future as well, but those are looking a bit dodgier now.
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You can bet the Tories will go for time of their own choosing rather than risk being bumped into anything.
They know they can't win, but could play for a 0-0 draw, with the issues you have mentioned forming their low-block tactic; this would still see Labour in government, but not really with the power to make the kind of changes necessary for the majority of people to benefit.
Until Sunak calls the GE date, Starmer should go around with his finger in front of his lips making a 'sssshing' sound... although some people think that's exactly what he is doing right now :lol:
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Don't worry, most of UK iron/ steel imports are from the EU (don't mention Brexit) -
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Won't the EU be cutting back on their Blast furnace capacity as well, or are they not bothered about climate issues?
China is the place to be trading with for new/raw steel in the future, whether we like it or not, since they are retaining their blast furnaces. Apparently it's because they had a late start in the Industrial Revolution and they have the right to belch out as many gases into the atmosphere as the West have done in the past, so to catch up with the West they will go on.... thank you very much for your business.
 
Maticmaker said:
Won't the EU be cutting back on their Blast furnace capacity as well, or are they not bothered about climate issues?
China is the place to be trading with for new/raw steel in the future, whether we like it or not, since they are retaining their blast furnaces. Apparently it's because they had a late start in the Industrial Revolution and they have the right to belch out as many gases into the atmosphere as the West have done in the past, so to catch up with the West they will go on.... thank you very much for your business.
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There's a map in the spoiler showing all the furnaces throughout Europe. I have a nephew who works at the Fos-sur-Mer site near Marseille (rather him than me).
 
Paul the Wolf said:
There's a map in the spoiler showing all the furnaces throughout Europe. I have a nephew who works at the Fos-sur-Mer site near Marseille (rather him than me).
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:lol: Yes, me too.... I once visited a Blast Furnace in Wales, or it might have been in Scunthorpe, its years ago (when United were winning PL title every season) ... but phew, thought I had arrived in hell.
 
Maticmaker said:
Won't the EU be cutting back on their Blast furnace capacity as well, or are they not bothered about climate issues?
China is the place to be trading with for new/raw steel in the future, whether we like it or not, since they are retaining their blast furnaces. Apparently it's because they had a late start in the Industrial Revolution and they have the right to belch out as many gases into the atmosphere as the West have done in the past, so to catch up with the West they will go on.... thank you very much for your business.
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Well what choice do they have outside of telling the population they have to limit their increase in living standards?

Who tells Nigerians that? Who tells the Mexicans?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Come on man. Everyone here seems to be saying this.

Labour had shitloads of policies signed off at conference. Tracker from conference onwards (including summaries). They’ve just aligned them to 5 key missions. Latest Refresh

I can accept anyone reading it, and shooting it to pieces. Whether that’s because they don’t go far enough, are too centrist or whatever. For me, there’s a lot of good in there, some great, and the pursuit of the Missions and policies for a decade would leave this country back on its feet, looking forward.

But politically engaged people, trotting out the line ‘Labour only offer “we’re not the Tories” and don’t have any policies’… Nah.

They’re standing on a pile of fully costed intent, and suggesting otherwise is just enabling the Tories. There’s a reason that these policies aren’t promoted. The Press.
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Rumours going around they are going to drop the green pledge

 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Well what choice do they have outside of telling the population they have to limit their increase in living standards?

Who tells Nigerians that? Who tells the Mexicans?
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None whatsoever, Governments tell people what they want them to know, just like us. Just like the Nigerians, Just like the Mexicans, just like anyone who is still using Blast Furnaces, these methods pollute, surely the world has to learn something from history, or face oblivion.
China seems to have less problems with convincing its population, it has already lifted hundreds of millions of its populace out of abject poverty.
 
Maticmaker said:
None whatsoever, Governments tell people what they want them to know, just like us. Just like the Nigerians, Just like the Mexicans, just like anyone who is still using Blast Furnaces, these methods pollute, surely the world has to learn something from history, or face oblivion.
China seems to have less problems with convincing its population, it has already lifted hundreds of millions of its populace out of abject poverty.
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Hardly surprising given what kind of regime it is
 
Red in STL said:
Hardly surprising given what kind of regime it is
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In part that was the point I was making. Of all governments China's seems to have less worries about telling its populace things they won't be happy about. The government's longevity in China seems to allow it to make long term (really long term) plans, 30, 50, maybe even 100-year plans, whether the people trust them or not seems irrelevant they just get on with it, and for 100 millions of Chinese they have been lifted out of abject poverty, so they are not probably that bothered about how it was brought about.
@Murder on Zidane's Floor was making the point that stopping the use of blast furnaces was something the Chinese government would have difficulty telling their populace as it would mean limiting the advance of their living standards.
 
Maticmaker said:
:lol: Yes, me too.... I once visited a Blast Furnace in Wales, or it might have been in Scunthorpe, its years ago (when United were winning PL title every season) ... but phew, thought I had arrived in hell.
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Yes I've been to one as well. He stayed with us in the summer of 2022 when I was melting in 40+ degrees and he wasn't hot, he was so used to the heat.

Regarding China, they're overproducing, domestic demand is down and they're losing money, so they're flooding the Asian market. But there are tools to prevent this which have been used for years to stop them dumping products, tariffs for example. Trump slapped a 25% tariff on Chinese steel.
 
decorativeed said:
That's currently. The other scopes will be phased in as part of the net zero plan schedule.
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What is the timeline on these new calculations, if they ever actually happen?

This is the time line for closures of the blast furnaces in Wales. I suspect the rest will close when the reinvestment cycle comes around.

"Here's some more detail on the timeline for how Tata plans to close both of its blast furnaces and supporting facilities in Port Talbot in a "phased manner":

  • The first blast furnace and coke ovens will close around mid-2024, and then the firm will progressively wind down its remaining heavy end assets during the second half of the calendar year
  • There will be a wider restructuring of other locations and functions across the company, including the intended closure of the steel-processing facility known as the Continuous Annealing Processing Line in March 2025
  • In order to deliver the proposed electric arc furnace in 2027, Tata says it has begun engineering design work and construction planning for a furnace which it says would be among the most modern in the world
The firm says it is in advanced planning discussions with the National Grid to enable infrastructure and has also begun engaging with the local authority and regulators."
 
Maticmaker said:
None whatsoever, Governments tell people what they want them to know, just like us. Just like the Nigerians, Just like the Mexicans, just like anyone who is still using Blast Furnaces, these methods pollute, surely the world has to learn something from history, or face oblivion.
China seems to have less problems with convincing its population, it has already lifted hundreds of millions of its populace out of abject poverty.
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Using coal...
 
Maticmaker said:
In part that was the point I was making. Of all governments China's seems to have less worries about telling its populace things they won't be happy about. The government's longevity in China seems to allow it to make long term (really long term) plans, 30, 50, maybe even 100-year plans, whether the people trust them or not seems irrelevant they just get on with it, and for 100 millions of Chinese they have been lifted out of abject poverty, so they are not probably that bothered about how it was brought about.
@Murder on Zidane's Floor was making the point that stopping the use of blast furnaces was something the Chinese government would have difficulty telling their populace as it would mean limiting the advance of their living standards.
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No, it's more they will also the question why their future prosperity has to be curtailed and they have to develop slower. Politicians can't sell this to a population.
 
TheGame said:
It’s from the Sun and Labour have subsequently said they are not dropping it.
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Next we will see an AI generated image of Starmer saying all sorts of things as part of the right wing media attempt to detail labour.
 
Frosty said:
And now after briefing that, Labour have told The Guardian that they will have meetings to determine whether or not to keep the policy

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...talks-on-future-of-28bn-green-investment-plan

Policy plans change hourly.
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Alternatively,

I went to the doctor and he said I was overweight and I needed to exercise more and eat less. I went back few years later and he said I was underweight and exhausted, so I had to eat more and rest more.

Doctors, changing their minds all the time, the idiots.

We should stick rigidly to everything Corbyn said before covid the war in Ukraine and Lizzie Dripping pissed all our money away. A good plan is a good plan no matter where you are starting from or what you are trying to correct and should only be revisited once a century.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Alternatively,

I went to the doctor and he said I was overweight and I needed to exercise more and eat less. I went back few years later and he said I was underweight and exhausted, so I had to eat more and rest more.

Doctors, changing their minds all the time, the idiots.

We should stick rigidly to everything Corbyn said before covid the war in Ukraine and Lizzie Dripping pissed all our money away. A good plan is a good plan no matter where you are starting from or what you are trying to correct and should only be revisited once a century.
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20150226_inhofe_snowball.jpg
 
We’ve gone from thinking the national economy is the same as house hold income. To thinking global climate change is like a visit to the local GP.

We are soooo fecked.
 
Sweet Square said:
We’ve gone from thinking the national economy is the same as house hold income. To thinking global climate change is like a visit to the local GP.

We are soooo fecked.
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It's the CE forum equivalent of 'Listen if someone offered you 700k a week to do your job in SA, you'd take it!'.
 
I agree with earlier comments that the Conservatives will try to frame the next general election, at least in part as a referendum on immigration. But I don't think it will be successful, due to them repeatedly failing to meet their own targets, including since 2019 when they've had large working majorities.

Even if you ignore ethics and only focus on practicality, the Tories have basically snookered themselves by setting completely unrealistic and undeliverable targets re cutting net migration. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with a policy, clearly if there's no chance of it being delivered it shouldn't be pledged in the first place. They've done it, to appease right wing back-benchers, the right-wing media in the short-term, without thinking of what happens next. They anger many people on the left and centre of the political spectrum by making those promises and using that rhetoric, and then anger many people on the right of the political spectrum by failing to meet their pledged targets (and of those people on the left and centre that they previously angered are not going to forgive them).

Also Reform, including Farage, attacking the Tories on immigration from the right, will also be very damaging for them. It is of course clear that Reform want the Tories to suffer a heavy defeat, so that they can influence their next leadership election and 'rebuild' afterwards. Their previous Brexit Party incarnation clearly influenced the Tories ditching May and replacing him with Johnson in 2019.
 
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Conor said:
It's the CE forum equivalent of 'Listen if someone offered you 700k a week to do your job in SA, you'd take it!'.
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Pretty much. Its only going to be when the sea water is chest height and raising will a lot of people start taking the issue a bit more seriously.
 
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