Foodbanks are photo ops these days.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
I would love to know the characteristics of people in red the group.
Members of the House of Lords, probably.
Why do people agree to these photo ops, do they not realise they just being exploited by the very people that have driven up the need for these food banks, oops I mean community pantries..
I don't, he needs Tory votes to win.
Labour urges Suella Braverman to ramp up asylum seeker deportations
Labour has urged the government to speed up the process of deporting failed asylum seekers and criticised "12 years of Tory failure" in the immigration system.
Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, said the government needed to clear a backlog removals aimed at people "who have not got a right to be here".
Asked whether she welcomed the Home Secretary's plan to ban the asylum claims, Labour's Ms Reeves told Sky News:
"The problem is the government are not deporting people today, even when their claims have failed.
"What the government need to do is get a grip of the system, process claims quicker, and ensure people who have not got a right to be here are sent home.
"That is not happening today and that is 12 years of Tory failure."
She added: “The Conservatives have been in government for 12 years now and illegal immigration is on the increase, so this is a problem that's been made under their watch.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...eves-immigrant-suella-braverman-b2195904.html
Keir Starmer has said a 19% pay rise for nurses is unaffordable for the government.
Kirsty told him that while MPs have had a near 28% salary increase over the last decade, she has only seen an uplift of two or three percent leaving her struggling and ‘actually losing money’.
Keir replied: “Firstly, thank you for what you do as a nurse, I know how tough it is. My wife works in the NHS so this is a discussion we have almost every night so I do know how hard it is.
“I want to see nurses paid well, under the last Labour government we had two things: fair pay for workers and we didn’t have strikes. Now here we are a few days before Christmas facing the possibility of a strike on Thursday.”
While he confirmed that he wants to see this issue resolved, he added: “I think 19% is more than can be afforded by the government,”
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-sta...or-nurses-is-unaffordable-for-the-government/
Sorry.
@stw2022 come get this tory
"community pantries"
FFS, how very quaint!Edit: wait, "community" pantries, isn't that communism?
He needs the centre to centre right to win the election. There’s absolutely zero need for him to be flirting as far right as he is. You could easily attribute half of what he has been coming out with to a 2010 UKIP candidate.
It's been fifty years since anyone
won an election from the left. And even that's questionable given that the hard left think every leader that won since and including Atlee was a "Tory" at the time but like to claim them retrospectively. Give it a decade or two they'll be waxing lyrical about how socialist Blair was when comparing him to whoever the current leader of the party is then, who will almost certainly be a rotten, right-wing, treacherous Tory in disguise.
At some point the delusion this isn't a centre-right country politically will disapate. Surely?
Politics is about winning power and making a difference. For the hard left it's about letting the Tories win but feeling righteous about it.
won an election from the left. And even that's questionable given that the hard left think every leader that won since and including Atlee was a "Tory" at the time but like to claim them retrospectively. Give it a decade or two they'll be waxing lyrical about how socialist Blair was when comparing him to whoever the current leader of the party is then, who will almost certainly be a rotten, right-wing, treacherous Tory in disguise.
At some point the delusion this isn't a centre-right country politically will disapate. Surely?
Politics is about winning power and making a difference. For the hard left it's about letting the Tories win but feeling righteous about it.
Full crosstabs here: https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/liyitylyr7/Internal_CoL_Should_not_W.pdf
Party and Brexit are major divides. Age is a divide in some, women are marginally more generous.
Bad definition of class (lumping in C2(= skilled manual workers) with DE(= proles), and C1(= office workers/professionals) with AB(= managers/CEOs)) means the results are meaningless for class. Especially since older surveys have shown that C1 looks more like DE and C2 more like AB when it comes to political views.
Believing that there should be an effective and efficient mechanism for deporting those who haven't established their right to be in the country being painted as some far-right extremism by itself is a distilled example of the hysteria.
It's nothing of the sort. If you think it is then surely you don't believe there should be any kind of system at all to process asylum claims. Because if you think there should be a system - preferably a better and more humane one than we have now - you accept some will not be accepted. So by accepting the need for a system you accept some people will need to be removed from the county if they don't succeed. Unless you'd want them to be removed slowly and ineffectually for....reasons grrr outrage... reasons?
That's how it works isn't it? The objection to an opposition politican saying that there should be a mechanism for removing those who haven't established their legal right to be here is nonsensical and is being held up as an example some kind of moral outrage by people who literally agree with it. This is where are now. Politician say something you agree with but you pretend you don't because being outraged is more fun
It's nothing of the sort. If you think it is then surely you don't believe there should be any kind of system at all to process asylum claims. Because if you think there should be a system - preferably a better and more humane one than we have now - you accept some will not be accepted. So by accepting the need for a system you accept some people will need to be removed from the county if they don't succeed. Unless you'd want them to be removed slowly and ineffectually for....reasons grrr outrage... reasons?
That's how it works isn't it? The objection to an opposition politican saying that there should be a mechanism for removing those who haven't established their legal right to be here is nonsensical and is being held up as an example some kind of moral outrage by people who literally agree with it. This is where are now. Politician say something you agree with but you pretend you don't because being outraged is more fun
Exactly.
When are Labour proposing the safe route option? Their legal right to be there is only lost once they have been processed and they do not have the right to stay. They are not illegal immigrants.
The point is, focusing on removing the small number of those who won't be allowed to remain in the country is completely missing the point. And missing the real problem. Both with the immigration system, the asylum system and the wider country at large.
It feeds the false narrative that asylum seekers are the root of our problems!
Thanks.
It is marginal I guess, but based on that, I would conclude 16-24 are the majority in the red group, which could suggest pessimism among young people about what people can afford.
Of course safe routes need to be opened up the immigration system is a mess. We elect Tories, this is what happens.
But everyone thinks the deportation process should be efficient, fast and cost effective. It isn't more socialist to think failed applications should be dealt with slowly and inefficiently. This game of "I'll decide how outraged I am by something when I see who's saying it" is top widespread these days
The constituency- based FPTP system makes the country appear more right-wing than it actually Is. Even in the landslide of 2019 with a highly divisive Labour leader , the Conservatives’ 43% of the vote translated into 56% of seats, while Labour’s share of both figures was around 32% and the Lib Dems was 11% of votes and 1.5% of seats. Centre to Left voters are concentrated in cities while Tories reign in the more numerous shire seats. The political discourse is skewed around the supposed interests of potential swing seats in “red wall” territory where grotesques like 30p Lee get elected.
Most asylum seekers are accepted. Deportation is not a major issue. Processing them is an issue. Amazing how the Ukrainians were processed rapidly with safe routes.
The whole issue of small boats has been blown out of all proportion by both the Tories and Labour. The Tories are horrendous but Labour are so weak.
When has the hard left ever let the Tories win? I can think of a few recent examples were the "centre-left" (so called) has let the Tories win.
You can take the poster out of the Starmer thread, but you can't take the Starmer thread out of the poster.
Yes 16-24 are over-represented in both the red and the purple groups based on a quick scan. But at least in the ones I saw, the red ones were like 1-3% at most, so probably not a real trend.
Yes, exactly.
A perfect demonstration of how far the Overton window has been dragged right.
It’s not that he’s flirting with the ‘far right’, it’s that he’s flirting ‘too far’ with the right for people’s liking, including me (even with my continual preference for him over Sunak).
Meh, I don't think this is the case. UKIP are no marks and basically disbanded, Reclaim similar.
I don't see it tbh, but what I see is labour making sure those who'd never vote for them, might. Now the plan could backfire but they've been unsuccessful since 2010 trying everything else.
Are you saying that when he gets into power he will pivot?
that's because the Tories have shifted much further right to soak up thise votes.
The argument is Labour are to keen to follow.
What was unsuccessful was the self sabotage by the centrists in the Labour party under the previous leadership during GE's. Many of the same people now demanding unquestioning support for Starmer.
Not really, the paperwork, for identification and destinations were already known and validated with most Ukraine refugees.
The problem for many of the asylum seekers, especially those arriving via illegal methods i.e Small Boats etc., is they are unable to provide the necessary evidence that can be validated quickly. The whole asylum process is not fit for purpose anyway and wants improving, but it comes way down most lists of 'wants' for the general public, and all politicians know that!
Not all Ukrainans had all their papers, they fled fighting and there were plenty of ways for them to contact the British authorities. How do you know what papers the asylum seekers have and which papers the ukranians have?
It is not illegal to seek asylum in the UK or anywhere else.
It's the government and Labour appealing to the racists and xenophobes but with the Ukranians they can say they're "Bleating the Way!" It's all propaganda led by the media and believed by the gullibles.
Most apparently did.
Like you I listen to the news broadcasts.
The individuals themselves are not illegal, but their method of entry is... there should be safer and legal ways for asylum seekers, but at the moment there are not, hence the method of entry is both dangerous and illegal and whatever government takes control next will have the same problem and once again all politicians know this!
I'm saying that I don't recall a party getting elected and keeping their electoral promises. If he promises something very much aligned to the Tories - Rwanda for example - I can seen them reverse ferreting once in power.
Sorry, Corbyn was electoral asbestos and to say the centrists are the reason why he failed twice is fantasy
Yes I imagine he will fold to press pressure and concede something like the Rwandan policy.
The government say that the crossings are dangerous, which they are, the Ukrainians didn't have to cross the Channel to have their papers processed. They had many legal routes. So if they really care about dangerous crossings they'd open up the many safe and legal routes that were open for the Ukrainians. It's nonsense.
Which is why I mentioned Labour. No plans to open a legal route? Wonder why.
The government and the media has concentrated the mind on the electorate on these boat crossings, which strangely enough have only incresed dramatically since Brexit, wonder why.
But what happened to all the people who processed the Ukrainian refugess, dealt with their papers , placed them in places to live etc. Vanished. Even if all the Ukrainians had all correct papers it's a major operation.
But mainly there were 46k people crossing in boats last year, way more than ever before. Asylum/refugee status success rate is minimum 70-80% so perhaps 10k were not eligible to obtain asylum status.
Taking into account that there is an estimated number of illegal immigrants of over one million people in the UK who have entered mainly by overstaying their visa they have managed to take the minds of the people and concentrate them on a maximum of 10 thousand possible people who could be deported. So easy to fool the electorate.
Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. The point remains, that self sabotage by the centrists in the Labour party under the previous leadership during GE's had a negative impact on Labour. And many of the same people are now asking for unquestioning support for Starmer.
Many Ukrainians went back because of the difficulties with paperwork. Families with children were stopped in France because children under the age of 5 weren’t given VISAs.
Another example where a pregnant woman gave birth on the way to the UK and had to go back because the newborn didn’t have a VISA.
We only accepted Ukrainians after private citizens volunteered to sponsor them and even then the hoops he they had to jump through were ridiculous!
No, I can see him removing it entirely. Too expensive, doesn't work etc.
Well, it's not irrelevant just because you don't like the point that Corbyn returned absolutely zero success at the ballot box, in two consecutive elections.
You can crow about "centrists" who "self sabotaged" as if they rigged votes, alas, it was on him, McDonnell and Milne. This man cannot get elected and set the country back several years through is ineptitude, handing a stinking 80 odd seat majority to that jar of soiled mayonnaise, Johnson.
Combined with his ludicrous position on Brexit, i.e. absolutely stupid, I'm glad he's milling about as an independent.