Not in the UK it's not. Staying at school is optional after 16.
There is no downside to increasing the national education level. If this was a Labour policy, everybody in here would be falling over themselves to praise it.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Not in the UK it's not. Staying at school is optional after 16.
There is no downside to increasing the national education level. If this was a Labour policy, everybody in here would be falling over themselves to praise it.
You have to stay in education to 18, this isn't just about school. You're not allowed to just get a job at 16 anymore unless it's an apprenticeship but that's still part of the education process and I imagine this rule abut doing maths to 18 would still apply.
Are they increasing the national education level or just changing subjects taught?
From what I've seen they're not extending teaching hours so presumably other subjects will be taught less.
If they want to enhance the national education level there's plenty of ways they could do that.
Sunak's entire speech is just tailored for an older electorate who get won over by catchphrase politics.
Making people do advanced maths won't plug any of those gaps. Those fields are specialised and require specific skillsets and training these days.
If people were richer then they wouldn't be as poor.
No it isn’t. The establishments may not call themselves “School” but they’re not optional and haven’t been for a long time.
"If they're too busy studying math, maybe they won't notice how shit we are"
You have to continue in some form of education until you are 18 these days, be that vocational, apprenticeship or A-levels.
It is not about what anyone individual remembers or uses twenty, thirty years later.
It is about the knowledge and skills an 18 year old needs for further education in one of many fields that apply advanced maths. So it makes sense if it is part of a joined up strategy to increase number of people to fill all the gaps we have/will have.
Number of pupils divided by number of maths teachers equals.........
i think teaching our kids and giving them any kind of hope that they can be an adult or do adult things like afford a house or not die in a hospital corridor is seriously dangerous and misleading.
That changed probably like 10 years ago or so I think
??
If you're going into a field that requires maths in your further education you already do maths at A Level. If you aren't you don't need it if you've already proven yourself to be proficient at the subject at GCSE level. It's quite simple.
Hunt confirms cut to ‘unsustainably expensive’ business energy support
Chancellor to announce plans to lower level of support for businesses, hospitals, schools and charities from March
Jeremy Hunt has confirmed that he will announce plans to reduce energy support for businesses in the Commons next week, telling industry leaders it was “unsustainably expensive”.
The chancellor has told business groups that a package providing support at a “lower level” than current measures would be available to them beyond March, promising to avoid a “cliff edge” in curtailing the subsidy.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-business-energy-help-to-reduce-hunt-confirms
Hospitals, schools and charities.
Chancellor to announce plans to lower level of support for businesses, hospitals, schools and charities from March
Jeremy Hunt has confirmed that he will announce plans to reduce energy support for businesses in the Commons next week, telling industry leaders it was “unsustainably expensive”.
The chancellor has told business groups that a package providing support at a “lower level” than current measures would be available to them beyond March, promising to avoid a “cliff edge” in curtailing the subsidy.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-business-energy-help-to-reduce-hunt-confirms
Hospitals, schools and charities.
You can't leave and do nothing anymore, you have to do training or an apprenticeship, but school is optional.
It’s not about leaving and “doing nothing”. You’re not allowed to leave education. You can’t leave and get a full time job unless it has training tied into the curriculum.You said earlier that you only need to continue school past 16 if it interests you. If this is part of the curriculum then it doesn’t matter what path you take, you will need to do maths until 18.
That's all true, but I think the point is that, in additional to the ones that already do A level maths, the country needs more 18 year olds with higher level maths skills if it is to fill gaps in all the industries where they need that for entey level training. (I don't think Sunak even said A levels, just to reimagine numeracy or some such).
This is a bit like saying opening more medical schools will not plug gaps in specialist medical fields. All of these fields require some kind of basic knowledge at entry level, usually a bachellors degree, which requires the maths knowledge.
The people that want to do those jobs will already be doing A level maths. Maybe if maths was taught correctly at a younger age then more would want to fill those jobs as they wouldn’t hate it by the time they’re 16.
I was good at maths and passed GCSE strongly, didn’t like it; replacing my history A level with maths wouldn’t make me want to go into engineering.
But if you've got a decent GCSE in Maths that can already get you on a foundation course if you decide after your A Levels or first degree that you want to go into STEM then what do those people do if they aren't doing a Maths A Level (which I pointed out earlier is absolutely not applicable to anything I've ever done since, despite me being a tax specialist who works with numbers daily)? What he should be doing is spending money on encouraging students to not give it up after GCSE, not forcing people who don't need it into doing something pointless. And I've seen mention of it being used to 'help with budget planning and personal finance'..don't they already do this with that bullshit citizenship crap they make most kids do at AS level anyway?
I have a bachelors degree in Computer Science. Got a C in my maths GCSE. Didn't do maths at A Level. You do need some maths knowledge but not anything past GCSE standard.
Not sure why you keep mentioning A levels, which isn't what Sunak said. I presume this would be less advanced, perhaps less theoretical too.
Also, to reiterate a point I made earlier, whether you personally or most people no longer remember/don't neeed to use what they learned at school in their career or life in general is not a sound basis for education/industry policy. It should be based on what current and future pupils need to learn for whatever the country needs/will need.
Last edited:
Well, first of all well done on that. Most people with the same entry qualifications would have struggled to complete the degree.
I used to lead a uni programme in Analytics. The entry requirement was at least a B in Maths GCSE, but most students had an A at A Level. We analysed progression stats, and not having an A level Maths was a significant predictor of dropping out of the course. We should have required an A Level in Maths, but we couldn't because the course would have become unviable: there are not enough applicants although analytics graduates are highly employable.
Last edited:
Because where else do you go if you've got a an A or A* in GCSE maths? You've got all you need if you don't go into STEM. A Levels are the next step.
It's not a sound policy to force a form of maths on anyone where they will never use it in their life. If you know you will never go into STEM then please let me know why you need to know about integrals with trigonometric functions... It's a fecking stupid policy. I suspect the people who think this is a sound policy are those who never had to do advanced maths.
And yet quite a few 'advanced' countries already do it. Perhaps there is a need for it?
On the second bolded part: I did both a Maths and a further Marhs A level and I do think it is a sound policy. So evidently not.
Rushi is at the wheel. We are all safe.
One of his 5 pledges is to halve inflation. He says he is going to do that.
Yet it has already been predicted to be going to happen anyway....
So if he wants to take credit for inflation halving, why does he not accept responsibility for the record level of inflation instead of always blaming Putin and Covid.
One of his 5 pledges is to halve inflation. He says he is going to do that.
Yet it has already been predicted to be going to happen anyway....
So if he wants to take credit for inflation halving, why does he not accept responsibility for the record level of inflation instead of always blaming Putin and Covid.
Why the feck are we arguing about maths? The country is in the shitter, millions of people struggling to pay their bills. We have a PM who has just promised a bunch of stuff for tomorrow, not today, that doesn't even begin to fix any of the mess his party has inflicted over the last decade - only to then add the caveat that if he doesn't meet these targets it's not his fault anyway. And the Westminster thread is currently occupied by folk debating when kids should learn about vectors?
Topic. On. Discuss.
Good levels of Numeracy are fundamental to so much of a modern society.
Dumb policies piss me off. It was the main headline in the papers today. I'm so so sorry that I've brought it up here in the most relevant thread for discussion. And before you reply about how much more important everything else in that speech was blah blah blah..I honestly don't give a feck about what you think I should be discussing.
Of course students that have an A-Level in maths will be more attuned to analytics and less likely to drop out. But basing entry requirements on a level of mathematics that is unnecessary to the field is completely counter productive. Especially if you are struggling for applicants.
Anyway it's a distraction. Probably by design!
Back on topic- the Tories are massive cnuts
Back on topic- the Tories are massive cnuts
The solution is not to force people to do it after reaching an acceptable standard. The issue is getting enough people interested in it who want to do a career where it's useful or a requirement. If you've already done the subject for 11 years then you should be able to make an informed decision that you no longer wish to do any more because you aren't interested in it and do not want to go into STEM.
It doesn't really add up.
Instead the fringe lunatics have infiltrated the party in Government. Give me PR.
As far as I understand, those countries don’t necessarily teach higher than GCSE standard, it’s just spread out over more years, which isn’t a bad idea.
A small part of my job is to teach maths to students of all ages doing apprenticeships, who haven’t achieved a level 4/grade C at GCSE. It’s shocking how many are unable to do the most basic of things. Work out 10% of 20. Covert 75% to a decimal or fraction.
A forced two years of extra maths is not the answer. The problems start far earlier than that.
Well said. Early years are the most important. I'm always surprised how many people even within education look down on primary teaching.
My thoughts exactly.
The cynic in me suspects the extra 2 years will be rooted in austerity economics equations and "free market" profit calculations.