Thanks to you I now know the standard expected. Appreciate it
you’ve had a ‘mare here.Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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you’ve had a ‘mare here.100%
I think there is so much of this going on in this government. Everyone has kompromat on everyone else and as such are protected.
Gavin fecking Williamson is in line for a knighthood according to reports so god knows what he’s sitting on. If he gets a knighthood he should be investigated for this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ail-Gavin-Williamson-faces-demotion-sack.html
Is there a difference?
Not often you hear the HoL given props.
Good point.
It is so clearly obvious now why he backed Cummings. Not out of loyalty. But out of self interest.
He knew how much Cummings had on him.
And it does make you wonder how much of Cummings lies were actually his and how much from Johnson side.
I would say a bit of both. Because it was in Johnson interest to paint Cummings as a nasty lying git. So the public would never believe him...
And that's pretty much the attitude that ensured brexit and an 80 seat conservative majority with the collapse of the red wall
Sorry but that’s absolute bollocks and you know it is. Those things happened because of a relentless disinformation campaign on both traditional and social media. The idea that these people voted that way because people were calling them idiots for voting against their best interests is about as valid as the idea of trickle down economics.
You don't remember the we have had enough of experts
The whole Liberal class looking down on the working class concerns
Dismissing immigration concerns as racism
Yeah all that totally didn't happen... what's it like in your ivory tower by the way?
We’ve had enough of experts is Tory party line spammed by Gove. No evidence that public has had enough of experts study finds.
Liberal class looking down on working class concerns is another Tory trope as they try to frame anyone living in a city as a metropolitan elite.
Dismissing immigration concerns as racism is yet more Tory anti-woke bollocks, Farage doctoring an image so that the flood of refugees heading towards Britain was non-Caucasian is the sort of nonsense that was branded racist. When you look at the state of the healthcare industry, logistics industry and hospitality industry it’s clear as day that immigrants have never been the problem.
My ivory tower being a tiny 1 bedroom flat with no outside space in Bristol, yeah I’m definitely part of the metropolitan elite.
No, people were absolutely going to vote remain until someone came along and called them an idiot?no it’s not ffs
experts find no evidence public has had enough of experts... thats gonna alleviate that feeling amongst voters then?
metropolitan elite - I think that refers more to those living in cities thinking they know better than non city dwellers - you know like you seem to
as for dismissing concerns about immigration as racism Id take it back to
was she really bigoted?
Yeah exactly that, it’s hilarious that some still cling on that, or the notion of ‘metropolitan elite’ while voting for the tories ffs.
If we want to have a discussion on Brexit and what led us there then we can’t not talk about Blair & Labour’s Islmaphobia in the early 00’s, the rise of the BNP, and the eventual formation of UKIP - but I suspect the ‘moderates’ don’t like to discuss anything negative as it pertains to Sir Tony.
That's not cause and effect though is it? Your list looks a lot like bollocks reasonings used to justify opinions.
The experts line was clearly a narrative pushed so that brexit opinions which didn't stand up to scrutiny could be justified. I mean that type of "well experts are always wrong" is the style of argument pushed by talk radio for some time.
This has always been the issue, the Tories run their campaigns with the assumption of a certain demographic being gullible and uninformed. Yet they manage to point the finger at others as being the accusatory ones.
Largely because of New Labour in truth but I'm sure you think Blair was a trusted bastion of truth.
Its somewhat true. You cant have an opportunity to engage with someone if they dont share their opinions for fear of being called names and abused. I dont think they voted for it because they were called names and abused, but they will have definitely have kept their mouths shut. Which in turn means that there cant be a conversation. And if there cant be a conversation, then you cant change anyones mind. This is issue with social media. You have people locking themselves up in echo chambers and shutting themselves off to anything that asks a question of them. Often dismissing anything that doesnt gel with their views as "fake news".
Reddit, for the most part, was shocked when Trump got in and it was shocked again when brexit happened. Why? Tribalistic echo chambers. No one has ever changed their mind by being called a cnut. Yet that seems to be the go to move for most, if not all, of social media. We have swapped out debate and information sharing for a series of back and forths no better than sword fighting sections of monkey island.
brexit was for sure as much of a f u I wont do what you tell me (because people felt belittled and looked down on by all parties in westminister) as it was a nuanced depabe about economic opportunity and sovereignty
I grew up in a working class family in a fishing village in Cornwall for the first 28 years of my life and have been renting a 1 bedroom top floor flat with no outside space and the bathroom located across a shared landing for the last 5 and a half years. The fact you’re trying to paint me as a metropolitan elite because I live in a city now once again exposes your pickled little Guido Fawkes brain for what it is.
Was she bigoted about moaning about “all the Eastern Europeans flooding in”? Clearly it was a bigoted comment and not based on any rational reasoning as they made up a huge portion of our agricultural and logistics workforce and now they have flooded out, entire fields are being left to rot and the haulage industry is in an absolute mess.
so the response to that is to engage in an argument not call people bigots then be surprised when they wont vote for you.
Was she being a rabid socialist over the tuition fees? was she anti capitalist in questioning the tax on pensions - all legitimate concerns of hers (as is her lived experience of immigration) thats shes entitled to hold without being insulted by a politician who has lived in the Westminster bubble for decades
calling people idiots for voting conservative and expecting that to pursuade them to vote for somebody else rather than stick two fingers up at you and tell you to F off is crazy - engage with the electorate rather than calling them idiots is pretty much the most basic first step in trying to win peoples votes
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I find it hard to think of a worse way of getting one's political message across than an incessant 'you're all stupid, you've all been fooled' mantra. It's almost ironic.
He did engage with her. He tried his best to answer all her questions. He was then hot mic’d for a flippant in the back of the car on his exit.
The electorate are idiots. I am in my late thirties and I have not experienced a decent Government in my lifetime. It's pretty tragic when you think about it.
yes thats right the thing that had cut through with the public was the attitude of looking down on people - the very thing you seem to think isnt an issue?
Remember this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30142579
Yeah both downright stupid but the idea that these sort of faux pas are the reason why the Tories are in power and Labour aren’t is just so shallow. You‘ve got literally thousands of examples of the Tories voting and acting against the interests of the working class yet it’s the fault of the people who call them stupid for continuing to do that?
We’re not politicians, it’s not our place to be diplomatic on social media. Anyone that isn’t in the top 5% and still votes Tory is an absolute fecking moron.
Good to see that "this is why Trump won" is a transferable concept.
Yes, yes she was. People arriving from overseas via legitimate immigration have been net contributors to the UK economy.
Look if you keep calling people idiots they'll prove you right.
100% agree, I am just a voter with an opinion and if I call out Tory sleaze or point out their failings I am painted as "the problem with Labour".
Anyone who fell for Boris Johnsons schtick could be labelled an idiot.
My own anecdotal evidence suggests so. My brother is an idiot and he voted Conservative. Absolutely incensed he was that Labour were offering everyone free broadband.
Disclaimer : I think the only people who aren't idiots were the ones who left this country after Brexit. Granted most won't have had the luxury of choice.
Disclaimer : I think the only people who aren't idiots were the ones who left this country after Brexit. Granted most won't have had the luxury of choice.
I don't believe so but maybe I'm wrong and you're the barometer for such things
Make it make sense.
Her question was:
"Where are the immigrants coming from?" 1.25
Does that question define her as a bigot?
she said she felt there was too much immigration... was it legitimate to have a concern about the pace of immigration (keep in mind that in the 10 years prior to that 5.47m people had come to the uk and that was 8.7% of the total uk population)
At the time it was indeed a fairly public debate if the UK had followed the correct policy compared to other EU countries regarding immigration criteria for new countries who joined - she wasnt derogatory, she wasnt name calling she was asking what was highly debated point at the time to a Politian and she was pretty polite about it... certainly nothing that warranted her being called a bigot
My wife is an immigrant who came over to the UK around 15 years ago and I take no offence at the question she asked or how she asked it - I feel the response was ill judged and reflective of the same attitude where people in here say people are idiots for voting conservative ... the same as emily thronberrys tweet was condescending and as long as people persist with that attitude they will see more things like the collapse of the red wall and the brexit vote.
Why are you making up the quote? She said:
“You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?”
You don’t think that’s bigoted?
so by your transcript she said
"you cant say anything about the immigrants because your saying that your"... (basically saying that you cant ask questions without people labelling you a bigot / racist)
"but all these eastern europeans are coming in, where are they flocking from?" ... (so shes asking which countries they are coming from again at the time the issue was about immigration in the Uk which was uncontrolled vs the controls implemented in countries like germany - on the face of it i think its fair to say thats a reasonable question)
her question is where are people migrating from but she raises the concern that asking that perfectly reasonable question will see her called a racist / bigot
PM proceeds to call her a bigot on national tv...
Pm gets slated for it - just like thronberry gets slated a few years later for such a condecending attitude - the same attitiude that prevails in loosing the referendum and a helping factor in loosing the red wall and now we have folks calling people idiots and then being mad at them when they dont change their votes.
If you dont think calling the 43.6% of the population who voted conservative idiots is bad politics then I think your mistaken
that said it makes a change from blaming everything on Red Tories and Israel
Baffling why anyone would want to even attempt to defend these fecks in high up spots in the Government. Why would you want to align yourselves with people like that. Bizarre.
Boris is going to ask Boris if he knowingly lied to parliament and if Boris tells Boris that Boris did indeed knowingly lie then Boris will resign. Simple.
Keep swinging, you’ll land one sooner or later just by the law of averages.