Well quite, I just think it's a a bit galling to turn all Helen Lovejoy in defence of Sunak's budget when you've largely been in favour of an economic act of self sabotage despite what the youngest generations think on the issue.
Westminster Politics
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Well quite, I just think it's a a bit galling to turn all Helen Lovejoy in defence of Sunak's budget when you've largely been in favour of an economic act of self sabotage despite what the youngest generations think on the issue.
Who is defending his budget? I'm saying he is becoming a master of the three card trick and as @711 implied, wait until he 'runs out of road', or being able to borrow cheaply!
I'm fed up with saying this, but the Brexit referendum result was nothing to do with economics, if it had then the result would have been different, that's why the result went as it did.
Remain fought the wrong battle, on the wrong ground, with the wrong weapons, and they were supposed to be the bright sparks!
'Sunak's not doing too badly though and its better than leaving it to your children, grand children and great grandchildren to pay....isn't it?'
Now maybe my grasp of the English language is failing me, but that seems awfully like you said: Sunak's not doing too badly though and its better than leaving it to your children, grand children and great grandchildren to pay....isn't it?
As a Doctor I have always believed that the nurses have by far the hardest job in any medical setup and deserve to be paid more . Having moved here from India it's always amazed me that the pay rises in NHS are so low in general considering you have fixed contracts for most NHS jobs . I am not comfortable with the idea of higher pay rise because we have had a hard year but I also hate this idea of how somehow paying nurses extra is against other things in the country because of expenses . It's a classic government strategy to kind of make people fight each other rather than the government
He's is getting by at the moment with public opinion, and many people think the sun shines etc. The leaving it to future generations was my attempt at irony, whatever Sunak does it will definitely get passed down to the kids and grandkids, maybe even great grandkids.
That is unless he attempts some sort of 'kamikaze' approach to his budgets over the next few years.
Well that we can agree on, because Sunak's been on the wrong side of the debate on some of the most idiotic decisions the Tories have taken (like delaying lockdown) and largely emerged unscathed. Seemingly for reasons that revolve around him wearing a slim fit suit- at least that was the gushing, sycophantic take the Guardian came up with this week.
We know what the reason was for Brexit but the Brexiters have not yet admitted it. The "left behinds" is an economic argument.
As Sunak thinks Brexit was a good idea and his job centres around economics it doesn't bode well for his future as Chancellor.
Eagerly awaiting the next stunt regarding Freeports.
Well that's a new one on me ...his suit!!
Although come to think of it I have heard some of the females in my family refer to his appearance... you know you are getting old when you hear of Chancellors being judged on their attire rather than policies!
Indeed.
And it is really important to remember that Sunak was promoted to Chancellor after Sajid Javid was forced to stand down because he rejected the control of fiscal policy Boris/ Dominic Cummings insisted upon.
So Sunak is implementing No10 policy and not his own.
And the minute he disagrees, he too will be stabbed in the back.
Well that's a new one on me ...his suit!!
Although come to think of it I have heard some of the females in my family refer to his appearance... you know you are getting old when you hear of Chancellors being judged on their attire rather than policies!
That beautifully summaries public opinion. As my wife says, he always looks smart...
I didn't realise what a wee little fella he is. Too short to be a PM.
Thought you might respond to this one Paul... but what have Brexiteers got to admit? They won, and on their terms, on their mind set which wasn't about economics.
The Remainer's lost their way, their campaign a shambles, a bit like one of the clans at the battle of Culloden that reputedly turned up a day late!
If he is a weak, yes-man chancellor then yet more problems ahead.
Yes they did win, and now the entire country has to suffer, well in!
Well that's a new one on me ...his suit!!
Although come to think of it I have heard some of the females in my family refer to his appearance... you know you are getting old when you hear of Chancellors being judged on their attire rather than policies!
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion...w-rishi-sunak-uses-clothes-to-build-his-brand
I mean admittedly it is in the fashion section, but if 'hedge fund haute couture' doesn't make you want to bring up your breakfast then you have a stronger constitution than me.
The remain campaign was a shambles but as we've said before when the Brexiters were moving the goal-posts continuously and all the arguments disproved then it went back to the start again and went round in circles for years and it still continues.
I've still no idea what they've won though, and they don't seem too happy with it either.
So Sunak has the short-term Covid problems and then the real long-term Brexit problems to deal with. Although he'll probably be gone by the next election as life gets much more difficult in two or three years time (or sooner if the trade deal with the EU is not ratified).
The problem Sunak has is that he can't make provision for the Brexit fallout as it would be admitting it was a mistake.
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both sides are failing to ‘read the room’.
the union coming out with a 12.5% demand when the entire country is suffering was seriously misjudged, and will likely cause a backlash at the time when good will towards the NHS is extremely high.
Unite are a bit of a wanker when it comes to unions. They usually ask for something astronomical and settle for much less anyway. Also; if you're a part of a different union and they offer to make a joint pay claim, don't. Because as soon as they get a deal on the side they'll leave you holding your dick.
Ah yes, lets all race to the bottom. A classic.
It is obvious from your post you have little idea just how far above and beyond their typical job role nurses have to go. Mainly because the NHS has been underfunded for over a decade. So they are doing the jobs of 2 people.
Funny that some people think health care should be a a priority, you know, as it is essential for life, rather than say Pret selling a few less hummus pots and coffees.
Always find the argument ‘but the private sector aren’t getting a pay rise’ baffling. So what? Does it mean the NHS staff deserve less?
My partner is an OT and has just finished working at a field hospital and the amount of times she came home an absolute mess because the stress she/everyone are under was way too much.
Absolutely. I had no idea about the demands and just saw on FB yesterday that it was 12.5 which is just a dumb idea. As I said personally I am against the idea that they need a better raise because of the pandemic but overall I definitely think that they should be paid more .
I think its misreading the room to assume that public opinion matters a jot in industrial disputes to be honest. The junior doctors found this out to their cost when the government crushed them in contract negotiations a few years ago. Overall public opinion was broadly in support, even when they chose to strike, but it didn't really matter that much in the end.
Public goodwill towards nurses and the NHS is extremely high but, then again, its never particularly low in the UK and I don't think people will go out of their way to do anything to the government about nurses or even really the NHS, as its performance has worsened and worsened over the past decade and Tory governments have carried on getting voted in.
A 1% pay rise for nurses is risible.
Having worked in a few different countries, the population's attitude to healthcare in the UK is honestly quite baffling to me at times.
we are in the middle of a pandemic, and an NHS union comes out and demands a 12.5% raise, and threat of a strike. Perception is opportunistic and tone deaf.
let’s wait and see - but that’s going to get a lot of backs up.
we will have circa 5.5% of the population unemployed when furlough ends - I’m not saying the NHS should be happy with a 1% raise - but for a significant proportion of people their opinion will be “be thankful you have a bloody job”.
My point is, what difference does it actually make?
If the public support the nurses getting a payrise, what are they going to do? If they don't support it, what are they going to do?
The reality is, most people have too much on their plates, pandemic or no, to get too involved in matters which don't particularly impact on their daily lives.All the public support in the world means very little, as the junior docs found out a few years ago.
And people will always have opinions like that. I had a management consultant of all bloody people a few months ago telling me what was ruining the NHS was locum rates for doctors and nurses. The fecking cheek of this woman.
New Tory ads just dropped
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New Tory ads just dropped
you don’t think that some people will think that?
taking my comments out of context, and quite a cnuty thing to do.
if we start getting serious threats of strikes, or even strikes then let’s see what the reaction will be.
I agree, most people have lots on their player not to give a shit either way. But this could escalate.
my point is more that this could harm perception of nurses, given the situation everyone finds themselves in - pretty different to the junior doctors scenario.
fair enough.
you still took my comments massively out of context.
I am surprised by the result to be honest.
would be interesting to see if the public supported a strike.
I'm not sure we're disagreeing on the fundamental point here.
You're saying 'wait to see what the reaction is'. I've not said the reaction is going to be great. I'm sure the reaction would be unsympathetic, my fundamental point is who cares? It won't impact on the outcome of industrial action.
And I'm sure some doctors and nurses love the respect they get for the jobs they do but fundamentally it doesn't pay for the bills. As I've said, I got loads of respect for being a doctor in Australia for instance (as did the nurses), I also got paid very well for what I did and that was everyone's expectation there. People there are also paid for the amount they work, whereas it seems to be expected in the NHS and by some members of the public that we're a bit of a charity at times.
I’m sitting on the fence! I’m not sure what the reaction to a threat of a strike will be. I personally think it would be damaging, and having worked For the NHS, I would also question whether workers themselves would support such action at this time.
I do think that the public reaction has an impact. We disagree on that.
Same here, my other half is a combination of community and hospital based in podiatry, and even before the pandemic they simply don't have the head count to prioritise their service. If it's having an affect at that basic level of service, then it's all reflective as it goes up the priority of care. A 1% pay rise will be a technical cut if the forecasts for inflation is correct. In fact, since 2010, average nurse pay has fallen by 7.4% in real terms (taking inflation into account).
Anyone working in a hospital environment will tell you how the last 12 months has been like, and the challenges even before the pandemic, and when posters like @MU655 calling out that nurses feel sorry for themselves, and a pay rise is 'entitlement' is so far wide of the mark, and nothing more than an ill-informed, armchair opinion.
This is the issue for Labour to drive home. Betrayed the nurses should be the first thing every spokesperson says from now until the election. If the govt capitulates and increases the offer. Then Starmer won the pay rise for the nurses Boris the Betrayer tried to steal from them because the NHS is not safe in Tory hands. The offer is terrible given what they have been through and the public will remember it but only if it is ingrained in their memories by constant repetition.
Not bullshitting for a Decade, its more like since the abolition of the Gold Standard (by the US in 1973) which is why Gordon Brown sold off more than half our gold reserves some years ago (around the Millennium). Short term debt has to be repaid (as the name implies)the long term 'trillions' debt goes on the 'never, never' pile in a room somewhere deep in the vaults of the Bank of England, until 'quantitative easing' kicks in.
Need more money Sunak, print your own!
*Didn't need to, they were on a different pitch playing by different rules, 'Quidditch' probably!
**He doesn't have to, nothing will go back to how it was after Covid, its the 'great excuse', lucky man Sunak, ready made excuses!
Trump lost so Farage’s stateside gravy train has run its course. With Brexit done it’s also harder to rort money from gullible English “patriots”. Time to cash in his chips. Thanks for helping to wreck the country Nigel.
I'm a full time band 5 nurse and I make substanially less than 33K even with enhancements. Nurses working in London certainly get paid more in line with higher cost of living but the majority of nurses in the UK do not live and work in London.
The majority of NHS trusts to not get overtime payments either. Possibly in community and other more niche settings but not in hospitals. Working long hours is expected and sometimes when things go wrong, many a times at the end of your shift - you stay beyond your contracted hours to help. Often the day is so busy we do not have enough time to finish all our jobs and documentation so we have to stay behind. We dont get paid extra for this as we don't claim it back and are not expetced to. We can opt in to work for NHSP and work extra hours on bank shifts and the majotirty of nurses do because you can bump up your pay but you are working beyond 50 hours a weeks in most cases. The short of it is, we do not get compensated.
I don't think nurses in general are complaining about the 1% payrsie. It's not even been mention worthy at work this week. None of us have actaully batted an eyelid to it. We have had a pay freeze for clsoer to a decade prior - it's nothing new to us plus we had a tiny payrise recenetly - the have essentially desentzitised us to it. The unions claims of 12.5% are completely deluded and out of touch with the real economic crisis and in general reality - even as nurses we feel the unions are out of touch with the job itself. It's basically a bunch of old nurses who couldn't hack being a nurse on the shop floor with a sense of deluded justice and they can shout very loudly into multiple platforms of media to try and get their way.
Strikes are less likely to take place as nurses will not go on strike if they are working. I've spoken to people who are confusing the doctors striking and nurses striking as the same thing - it simply isn't. If the majortiy of nurses left their patients on wards to strike, I'd put good money on that alot of patients will deteriorate and/or die. As nurses we would not allow that.
What we really want is a safe working environment, with the tools to do our jobs properly instead of constantly facing cuts and staff shortages. It's not rocket science but accroding to our gorvnement it's too expensive and would certainly cost more than a 1% payrise for us all.
This is disgusting: