Westminster Politics

Serious question : How do we remove Boris and his cohorts?

Let’s say we want to do it before Christmas.

How would that be achieved?
Other than assassinating him I reckon your best bet is to have credible political opposition that the public will vote for. Might have to wait a bit past Christmas for that though
 
Serious question : How do we remove Boris and his cohorts?

Let’s say we want to do it before Christmas.

How would that be achieved?

Huge media coverage of a corruption scandal met with massive public protests and collapsing polling numbers. If the Tories couldn’t distract from it and it looks like genuinely damaging their electoral prospects, then they’d replace him themselves. Which would do nothing about a lot of the other wankers in the party, and you’d probably just end up with PM Gove or similar.
 
I reckon the things that you would need to do to get rid of this lot, would probably make it not worth doing. Huge amounts of violence or going Trump to Trump with Boris. We the electorate are not a nice bunch, particularly in these bleak times. If Keir were to discover some alchemic secret that would allow him to bestow happiness to everyone in the land, I still think that a majority would vote against it, on the basis of resentment of other people recieving it too.
 
Just astonishing misbehaviour:

'Conservative MP Nicola Richards suggests it’s wrong for the opposition to criticise the actions of Robert Jenrick "during a global pandemic."''

'Downing Street said Boris Johnson now considered the matter "closed."''

(BBC)

What I find so amusing isn't just that his actions are clearly at odds with Parliamentary standards.
But that he doesn't think he has done anything wrong.

And that is the real message.
He thinks that it is perfectly acceptable to approve a planning application in the clear knowledge that the applicant wants to avoid paying any additional money to a so called Marxist Council for social provision the very next day...

And most likely in the clear knowledge that the applicant will donate to his party.

And of course he will be backed by his party leader just like all the others.
 
Starmer at his forensic best. Glad we finally have an opposition back!

He is absolutely right to put the focus on Boris.

And Boris better start to take notice of the fact that while he may have a big majority, the public are increasingly loosing trust in him as a leader.
 
Serious question : How do we remove Boris and his cohorts?

Let’s say we want to do it before Christmas.

How would that be achieved?

Why the rush.
I am perfectly happy to see Boris and his cabinet exposing themselves to the country as without morales and without strategy and progressively looking less and less trustworthy.

As I keep saying, Starmer is intellectually capable of building the pressure in a way that the Tories will continue to dig a bigger and bigger hole for themselves.
 
Starmer at his forensic best. Glad we finally have an opposition back!

This strategy worked great with Cummings. It stopped it becoming a party political issue and made it easier for Tory backbenchers to start to criticise him. Not a surprise he's doing it again.
 
The bloke still in the job whilst the Tories continue to poll in the 40s?
Starmer isn't my preferred leader but I thought it was the right move seeing as Corbyn had to go. If people are dumb enough to need a leader who doesn't scare them then give them one. Starmer is good at what he does too.

Tories are polling 40s but Labour are too now. From a 26% gap to a 2% gap. Love it ot hate it, the fact that he isn't Corbyn is probably worth 15% in itself.
 
This strategy worked great with Cummings. It stopped it becoming a party political issue and made it easier for Tory backbenchers to start to criticise him. Not a surprise he's doing it again.

Completely different scenarios. Cummings is much more powerful and his case was high-profile and had significant cut-through with the general public. Jenrick’s scandal will generate less interest and it’s perfectly plausible he is compelled to resign. Taking a backseat on this is not the best move morally or strategically, I believe. He’s the LOTO and this is an open goal to be scathing and earn some attention, not just about Jenrick but about how the government conducts itself.

And I just recalled Starmer did explicitly say he’d have sacked Cummings. The tweet suggests he did not even give his own judgement this time round. Like Labour’s policy on schools re-opening, it’s weak and fails to resonate at all. You can’t say ‘it’s up to Johnson’ but not say what you would do in his position.
 
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Are you suggesting he'd be gone and they'd be polling in the 20s if Starmer had called for his head?
No, I'm just wondering which bit worked great? Boris is still in the job, his handpicked man he stood behind throughout is still in his job, the polls still have them leading and nobody outside of a Twitter hashtag gives a shit about the story anymore. Actually forget great, which bit of the strategy worked at all?

It is futile debating with Dobba.
And yet you and sun feel obliged to put on the performance rather than just using the ignore function. It's almost flattering.
 
Serious question : How do we remove Boris and his cohorts?

Let’s say we want to do it before Christmas.

How would that be achieved?
Just tie a £50 note to a piece of string attached to a bicycle - they'll follow you out of Downing Street.
 
1.19pm: No 10 backs Robert Jenrick, saying Prime Minister now 'considers matter closed'
'The Downing Street lobby briefing has finished. Here are the main points.

Downing Street remains determined to try to draw a line under the row about Robert Jenrick’s attempt to try to rush through approval for a housing development owned by the Tory donor Richard Desmond. Despite being asked repeatedly to justify various aspects of Jenrick’s handling of the affair, the prime minister’s spokesman refused to engage with the details of what happened and instead just repeatedly insisted the PM considered the matter closed. He said:
"The PM has spoken with the communities secretary. The communities secretary gave his account in public and to parliament and published the relevant documentation. In light of the account that was given, the PM considers the matter closed."

The spokesman also said Boris Johnson still had full confidence in Jenrick.'
 
Completely different scenarios. Cummings is much more powerful and his case was high-profile and had significant cut-through with the general public. Jenrick’s scandal will generate less interest and it’s perfectly plausible he is compelled to resign. Taking a backseat on this is not the best move morally or strategically, I believe. He’s the LOTO and this is an open goal to be scathing and earn some attention, not just about Jenrick but about how the government conducts itself.

And I just recalled Starmer did explicitly say he’d have sacked Cummings. The tweet suggests he did not even give his own judgement this time round. Like Labour’s policy on schools re-opening, it’s weak and fails to resonate at all. You can’t say ‘it’s up to Johnson’ but not say what you would do in his position.

Well, he said that he would have sacked Cummings if he were PM, but not til long after the row had erupted.

The point is that people said he was wrong not to shout more loudly on Cummings, the same way they disagreed with him being broadly supportive of the Government at the start of the outbreak of the covid-19. In both cases people felt he should be banging the drum and calling out the Government. On reflection, he handled them both pretty adroitly and Labour's position in the polls, along with his own personal ratings, have improved during that time.

If his failure to raise the temperature lets the Tories off the hook this time, then fine, he deserves criticism. But at some point you have to let him actually make the mistake before criticising him for it.
 
Prime Minister now 'considers the matter closed'
Does the Prime Minister believe that his leadership of his Party and the nation means that he can order people not to discuss or question things?
Scratch 'thumbs-up Boris' and there's a very unpleasant would-be dictator waiting beneath the PR surface...
 
Well, he said that he would have sacked Cummings if he were PM, but not til long after the row had erupted.

The point is that people said he was wrong not to shout more loudly on Cummings, the same way they disagreed with him being broadly supportive of the Government at the start of the outbreak of the covid-19. In both cases people felt he should be banging the drum and calling out the Government. On reflection, he handled them both pretty adroitly and Labour's position in the polls, along with his own personal ratings, have improved during that time.

If his failure to raise the temperature lets the Tories off the hook this time, then fine, he deserves criticism. But at some point you have to let him actually make the mistake before criticising him for it.

Labour’s rise in the polls is hard to attribute to Starmer’s attitude given the catastrophic mishandling of Covid-19, the Cummings scandal in addition to more usual Tory antics. For sure Starmer is a part of that as a whole but it would be very hard to say his stance vis-a-vis Cummings played a meaningful role either way as opposed to the fact he is not Corbyn + Cummings himself shooting the Tory party in the foot.

My reasoning this time is the Tories are not ‘on the hook’ with Jenricks as they were with Cummings. It’s a Westminster bubble issue. The onus is on Starmer to get them on the hook this time. He could afford to take a backseat with Cummings and I agree was likely wise to. Not this time. Ironically, this is a time Blair would be in his element. I get the sense some Starmer supporters have some weird historical amnesia whereby Blair was supposedly easy on the Tories and tried to facilitate consensus, but for all his sins he was exceptionally good at the opposite when he needed to be.
 
Blair was awful for bandwagonning though. He even publicly shared his opinions on whether football managers should be sacked or not.
 
Blair was awful for bandwagonning though. He even publicly shared his opinions on whether football managers should be sacked or not.

I read in a biography the other day he lost a vote in the HoC by a margin of one - it transpired Blair himself had failed to vote because he was watching a footy game on TV.
 
:lol:

I see the usual suspects voted against weekly testing of NHS and care staff (JRM, Truss, Whately, Hunt, May etc etc).
 
Labour’s rise in the polls is hard to attribute to Starmer’s attitude given the catastrophic mishandling of Covid-19, the Cummings scandal in addition to more usual Tory antics. For sure Starmer is a part of that as a whole but it would be very hard to say his stance vis-a-vis Cummings played a meaningful role either way as opposed to the fact he is not Corbyn + Cummings himself shooting the Tory party in the foot.

My reasoning this time is the Tories are not ‘on the hook’ with Jenricks as they were with Cummings. It’s a Westminster bubble issue. The onus is on Starmer to get them on the hook this time. He could afford to take a backseat with Cummings and I agree was likely wise to. Not this time. Ironically, this is a time Blair would be in his element. I get the sense some Starmer supporters have some weird historical amnesia whereby Blair was supposedly easy on the Tories and tried to facilitate consensus, but for all his sins he was exceptionally good at the opposite when he needed to be.

Labour have put on ~15 points in the polls and Starmer has some of best ratings of any opposition leader since Blair. I find it hard to credit that to simply not being Corbyn, but I guess thats just my opinion, these things are hard to prove.

As an aside, Blair said those huge attacks on Tory sleaze during the 90s were a mistake and he regrets doing it. He talks at length about that in his biography. Ive wondered before whether that influences Starmer now, or whether its just Starmer's natural style.
 
:lol:

I see the usual suspects voted against weekly testing of NHS and care staff (JRM, Truss, Whately, Hunt, May etc etc).

Did they actually? What the feck?

It doesn't take a genius to realise hospitals and care homes were hotspots for continued transmission even during the lockdown, especially with suboptimal PPE.

If you don't break transmission in these settings, you'll continue to get cases, regardless of how well the rest of your measures are working. And you'll be getting cases in patients who are already vulnerable.

Our trust has independently started testing staff members every fortnight for those who are working in areas where we do elective work. The infectious diseases team have been talking about potentially doing twice weekly testing on all staff, to really try to break transmission. Not sure if they'll get the funding though.
 
He is absolutely right to put the focus on Boris.

And Boris better start to take notice of the fact that while he may have a big majority, the public are increasingly loosing trust in him as a leader.
Why would he care? He can get anything he likes through parliament.
4 years is a long way away.
Ex Labour wall voters and Corbyn have a lot to answer for.
 
1.19pm: No 10 backs Robert Jenrick, saying Prime Minister now 'considers matter closed'
'The Downing Street lobby briefing has finished. Here are the main points.

Downing Street remains determined to try to draw a line under the row about Robert Jenrick’s attempt to try to rush through approval for a housing development owned by the Tory donor Richard Desmond. Despite being asked repeatedly to justify various aspects of Jenrick’s handling of the affair, the prime minister’s spokesman refused to engage with the details of what happened and instead just repeatedly insisted the PM considered the matter closed. He said:
"The PM has spoken with the communities secretary. The communities secretary gave his account in public and to parliament and published the relevant documentation. In light of the account that was given, the PM considers the matter closed."

The spokesman also said Boris Johnson still had full confidence in Jenrick.'
So corrupt and even the system can't do anything about it.
 
MUST READ: The tweet thread is exhausting, tragic and wholly unsurprising.
Im not sure for how long this is sustainable

 
I want to know who Cumming's puppet masters are. No-one has this much power without it being sanctioned from waaaay up above.