Westminster Politics

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
unless there is a big issue in the economy then there’s not an issue. There will be a recession, and if we had a crack like 2008, you would expect that to change the landscape, and affect such policies wouldn't you?
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One can argue it's pragmatic, much as the Tories may argue that not disclosing that caveat was pragmatic I guess. They provide zero detail on what conditions would preclude the wage rise not being implemented too.

The EU workers' rights protections being ditched is another one. It's depressing that our government constantly spouts blatant lies, but hardly anyone seems to give a shit.
 
Ubik said:
Probably be a new boundary review that's even worse before the next election.
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I'm probably being massively naive here, but can't the Electoral Commission or anyone block a government shamelessly reconstituting the boundaries into its favour? What's to stop any government with a majority doing that, except not being a cnut?
 
Jippy said:
Cheers. Still ropey, given a government can presumably not implement them if they're helping the opposition.
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The terms of the review are also set by the government, which is why Cameron mandated aspects (600 seats, equalused constituency sizes) that benefitted the Tory party.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
I wonder if they're as independent as the BBC?
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They're actually pretty good historically, the issue is that the two main parties can still influence the outcome by how they respond at the consultation stage. When the Boundary Commission goes out to consultation, every affected CLP responds. If each constituency ends up putting in competing responses with their Labour neighbours its counter productive. Quite simply if one CLP says the border should be there, but their CLP neighbours disagree, then as far as the consultation is concerned the submissions kind of cancel each other out.

A friend of mine led on Labour's Boundary Commission response back in the 1990s, when he managed to get most of the affected CLPs in the country to come up with an agreed response about where boundaries should be and what evidence was provided to the boundary commission in support of it. Not easy, bearing in mind that some CLPs were being put out of existence and therefore some people still didn't agree. But it was largely a unified response. Meanwhile the Tories were in meltdown and offered nothing, and the outcome was a set of boundary changes that significantly favoured Labour.

I have no idea about how the most recent consultation went, but given that the consultations happened in the aftermath of Brexit and the second leadership election, I wouldnt bet on it being well organised, so it may further damage Labour.
 


Replies to this tweet and others like it, the chavy xenophobes think they've won and more worryingly that their opinions have won.

We have to respect their opinions though apparently.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Who monumentally botched the election and delivered those constituencies into Tory hands? What exactly do you thin will be Corbyn's legacy? One of the burdens of leadership is to accept responsibility for failure. It's a shame that Corbyn and his followers seem to be devoid of humility and honesty.
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Christ! Being a liberal is easy isn't it.

Firstly just to get it out of the way, Mcdonell literally apologised for the election result on the Marr show last week. So the idea that the left of the labour party is ''devoid of humility and honesty'' is just untrue

Anyway moving on from this bizarre moralism and onto something that looks like actual politics. You quoted a tweet I posted yesterday showing everyone over 65 hates not just Corbyn but the Labour Party as a whole. So simply getting in a new guy as leader isn't going to change this and neither will the current view the left has, which is going into these communities and do local organising(Putting on a bingo night in Bolsover isn't going to stop 70 year old Bill from thinking the labour leader is an ISIS loving communist who wants to crash the economy by giving away free stuff).

So whats your answer (The best I've come up with so far is to turn and expand Manchester into a giant blade runner city) ? Please don't just say, the new labour leader should be more racist nationalist while holding an England flag.

Corbyn legacy will of course be in part this election lost but it will also be turning the Labour into one of the biggest centre left parties in Europe and putting forward a manifesto that took seriously the dangers of climate change(And it possibly still didn't go far enough). I've yet to see any centrist/liberal politician put forward a plan to actual address the biggest issue of the 21st century. Not only does there seem to be no policy(Or at least policy that isn't constantly undermining the fight against climate change - the Canadian guy who loves doing black face and building pipelines, for example.)there seems to an active disregard for left policy, if liberals are laughing at the idea of planting 2 billion trees in 20 years, then they are no different to the american president who believes climate change is a hoax.

Its one thing to have a political platform that is hated by anyone over 65(Which is a massive problem), its another to have a platform that will utterly fail to meet even the very basic challenges of the modern world.
 
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Our new Prime Minister is a well documented anti-semite who has written an anti-semitic novel, repeatedly hired a self-confessed anti-semitic writer for the Spectator and has documented anti-semitic MPs sitting in parliament.

Why does no one care? It's a fecking joke.
 
Shamwow said:
Our new Prime Minister is a well documented anti-semite who has written an anti-semitic novel, repeatedly hired a self-confessed anti-semitic writer for the Spectator and has documented anti-semitic MPs sitting in parliament.

Why does no one care? It's a fecking joke.
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Because we're dealing with mass hysteria. Nothing right now is going to make sense.
 
esmufc07 said:
Well, the media should have certainly shone a light on it more than they have but we are governed largely by a media that is right wing and is supportive of the Conservative Party so they are not going to, not sure what you are expecting?
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and helped by useful idiots credulously doing their work on the leading manchester united forum
 
esmufc07 said:
So you don’t believe there is any issue of antisemitism within the Labour Party ?
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I'm sure there is some, as there is probably in any large group of people. I dont think its anywhere near the amount of attention people like you constantly gave it, nor do I think its even as bad as the amount in their direct rivals which was barely mentioned by you and your ilk. It was blatantly weaponized in bad faith by people who were politically opposed to Corbyn. Then there's the credulous liberals like you who I believe genuinely care about the issue but ended up as useful idiots for people who dont care at all.
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
Who monumentally botched the election and delivered those constituencies into Tory hands? What exactly do you thin will be Corbyn's legacy? One of the burdens of leadership is to accept responsibility for failure. It's a shame that Corbyn and his followers seem to be devoid of humility and honesty.
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It's one thing to point out Corbyn's failures but it's another thing to call out voters making a different choice as the losers legacy. For instance i can't remember Clinton or Brown leaving a legacy of Trump or Austerity respectively.

Failures should be learned of course but it's also worthwhile looking at voters as if they have actually freewill and it isn't just the centre-lefts or lefts fault for not getting their vote. It's the arrogance of assuming voters naturally sit with your preferred party.
 
Eboue said:
I'm sure there is some, as there is probably in any large group of people. I dont think its anywhere near the amount of attention people like you constantly gave it, nor do I think its even as bad as the amount in their direct rivals which was barely mentioned by you and your ilk. It was blatantly weaponized in bad faith by people who were politically opposed to Corbyn. Then there's the credulous liberals like you who I believe genuinely care about the issue but ended up as useful idiots for people who dont care at all.
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I think my frustration lay in the absolute shocking way it has been handled for years under Corbyn, and the way defenders of Corbyn were completely (or largely) dismissive of the concerns of Jewish people. This should have been put to bed years ago, and would have been under a competent leader. That the EHRC have had to get involved is a damning indictment.
 
esmufc07 said:
I think my frustration lay in the absolute shocking way it has been handled for years under Corbyn, and the way defenders of Corbyn were completely (or largely) dismissive of the concerns of Jewish people. This should have been put to bed years ago, and would have been under a competent leader. That the EHRC have had to get involved is a damning indictment.
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That's what people like you would say.
 
Smores said:
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This is still pissing me off the more i keep hearing/seeing it.

Where have the proud Tory voters gone from these threads? Proud of this are we? Merry christmas, try not to choke on your turkey
 
Smores said:
It's one thing to point out Corbyn's failures but it's another thing to call out voters making a different choice as the losers legacy. For instance i can't remember Clinton or Brown leaving a legacy of Trump or Austerity respectively.

Failures should be learned of course but it's also worthwhile looking at voters as if they have actually freewill and it isn't just the centre-lefts or lefts fault for not getting their vote. It's the arrogance of assuming voters naturally sit with your preferred party.
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Doesn’t the long history of the red wall, and it suddenly turning blue, suggest that those voters did naturally sit with their preferred party, until a situation occurred (brexit) where they believed they had to change from their natural position
 
Can someone tell me why the columnist Owen Jones is, apparently, so disliked? Thanks.
 
Sweet Square said:
Christ! Being a liberal is easy isn't it.

Firstly just to get it out of the way, Mcdonell literally apologised for the election result on the Marr show last week. So the idea that the left of the labour party is ''devoid of humility and honesty'' is just untrue

Anyway moving on from this bizarre moralism and onto something that looks like actual politics. You quoted a tweet I posted yesterday showing everyone over 65 hates not just Corbyn but the Labour Party as a whole. So simply getting in a new guy as leader isn't going to change this and neither will the current view the left has, which is going into these communities and do local organising(Putting on a bingo night in Bolsover isn't going to stop 70 year old Bill from thinking the labour leader is an ISIS loving communist who wants to crash the economy by giving away free stuff).

So whats your answer (The best I've come up with so far is to turn and expand Manchester into a giant blade runner city) ? Please don't just say, the new labour leader should be more racist nationalist while holding an England flag.

Corbyn legacy will of course be in part this election lost but it will also be turning the Labour into one of the biggest centre left parties in Europe and putting forward a manifesto that took seriously the dangers of climate change(And it possibly still didn't go far enough). I've yet to see any centrist/liberal politician put forward a plan to actual address the biggest issue of the 21st century. Not only does there seem to be no policy(Or at least policy that isn't constantly undermining the fight against climate change - the Canadian guy who loves doing black face and building pipelines, for example.)there seems to an active disregard for left policy, if liberals are laughing at the idea of planting 2 billion trees in 20 years, then they are no different to the american president who believes climate change is a hoax.

Its one thing to have a political platform that is hated by anyone over 65(Which is a massive problem), its another to have a platform that will utterly fail to meet even the very basic challenges of the modern world.
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The actions and words of Corbyn's faction since losing the election show that McDonnell was simply paying lip service. They're playing a blame game to try and absolve themselves of all responsibility and cling onto the direction of the Labour party despite the country flat out rejecting their vision for this country. Do you need reminding that this was a worse performance than the infamous 1983 election? Which is quite remarkable when you consider the crazy platform that Foot was running on.

What the Labour party needs is a complete re-branding. It needs to become a broad church again and appeal to working class voters, centrists and old people alike. This is impossible with Corbyn's faction in control of the party. Not least because the country has no appetite for Corbyn's vision of the country but also because the 'talent' attracted to this narrow sect are woefully inadequate at every level. I don't buy your theory that the 65+ age group is impossible to win back. In 97 the biggest demographic collapse for the Tories was the 45-55 age group so I don't believe the idea that they're lost forever. It just seems like another weak rationalisation as to why you should keep trying to sell the British public a politics that they don't want.

You can cling onto to Corbyn's green policy if you want. It was better than the other main parties admittedly, The big glaring inconvenience is that if you're incapable of winning power its utterly redundant.

Smores said:
It's one thing to point out Corbyn's failures but it's another thing to call out voters making a different choice as the losers legacy. For instance i can't remember Clinton or Brown leaving a legacy of Trump or Austerity respectively.

Failures should be learned of course but it's also worthwhile looking at voters as if they have actually freewill and it isn't just the centre-lefts or lefts fault for not getting their vote. It's the arrogance of assuming voters naturally sit with your preferred party.
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The problem here is the refusal to accept the reality that the British public are not going to put in power a Labour party with an agenda in the image of Corbynism. This was one of the worst performances in the history of the Labour party and came close to destroying it all together. Corbyn has delivered swathes of Labours traditional base into the hands of the Tories. This is no ordinary defeat.

You can also frame it as the arrogance to refuse to read the writing on the wall.
 
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