Westminster Politics

[MadMike]

Lib Dems winning a marginally pro Brexit seat. Farage has Boris over a barrel.

All that tells me is that Tories will form a majority government with TBP and DUP next election with a no deal mandate. Labour’s lukewarm, soft Brexit stance means they’ll neither finish first (and therefore will not be given a chance to form a coalition) nor will they have enough allies to form a government.

Lib Dems, Plaid, Greens and probably SNP will be in a coalition of Remain while Labour will stand alone. No doubt Labour will blame it on the Remain coalition for taking voters away from them, on voters for voting on a GE like it’s a single issue referendum and everything else under the sun apart from their own disastrous stance and leadership.

 

[MadMike]

As you said they're not expected to win it and will have barely campaigned especially given it's not a GE campaign. It's not been won since the 70s.

This was a Lib Dem seat to win and they should have done it by a much bigger margin considering the tory candidate.

Should have done by a much bigger margin? What? A pro-Brexit constituency, a 20 point Tory lead in 2017. Overturned. But somehow a failure?

What’s the basis for that argument?

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Should have done by a much bigger margin? What? A pro-Brexit constituency, a 20 point Tory lead in 2017. Overturned. But somehow a failure?

What’s the basis for that argument?

It's not a failure. It should have been a bigger margin because the main opponent was the same guy who was unseated by a petition of 19% of the constituents for submitting false expenses. It kinda shows the weakness of the other parties with the Conservatives fielding any old shit and still making it a close contest. It's ridiculously frustrating to see.

 

[Dobba]

I really don’t know when the penny will drop for Labour that at this point people no longer give a shit about any other issues other than Brexit and that nothing else can be achieved until that’s out of the way.

I’ve done a full 360 on Corbyn and think he absolutely needs to go if there’s any chance of stopping a Conservative government. Considering the state of the country the opposition should have been miles ahead but it has been failed by its leadership of both Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. If only David had won we wouldn’t need to be talking about Conservatives, Corbyn or indeed fecking Brexit

You probably would, to be fair, just to avoid discussing Britain's role in extraordinary rendition.

So looking at the results it's 49.5% for no deal and 43.5% for another vote where no deal is on the ballot.

Edit: Make that over 50% for no deal, I forgot about the existence of UKIP.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

You probably think I made a mistake but I was hugely critical after the referendum and wanted him gone, then warmed to him during the election and fully supported after, and now after 2 years of shambles I'm back to where I started.

 

[Adisa]

It should have been a bigger margin but doesn't take away from the fact that Labour are in no position to be contesting GE until they sort their Brexit policy. I even think it's too late.

 

[Dobba]

You probably think I made a mistake but I was hugely critical after the referendum and wanted him gone, then warmed to him during the election and fully supported after, and now after 2 years of shambles I'm back to where I started.

That's a shame. I really wish Labour was more appealing to people who 'no longer give a shit about any other issues other than Brexit'.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

That's a shame. I really wish Labour was more appealing to people who 'no longer give a shit about any other issues other than Brexit'.

It's not difficuilt to see that his country is gridlocked. It's no longer 2017 when the Brexit process had barely started and Labour can ignore it and press the social issues. As hugely important as they are people are completely fatigued with Brexit now and want it over and done with. There's absolutely nothing that can be achieved until that is out of the way. You can't invest in services, people and the economy until you free up funds that are constantly being set aside for Brexit. They will never win a general election if they don't adress the main sticking point of Brexit. They can bang on about social inequality and everything else that is wrong with this country as much as they want, people have Brexit on the brain and they've no chance of changing that unless they fully address it!

 

[Dobba]

It's not difficuilt to see that his country is gridlocked. It's no longer 2017 when the Brexit process had barely started and Labour can ignore it and press the social issues. As hugely important as they are people are completely fatigued with Brexit now and want it over and done with. There's absolutely nothing that can be achieved until that is out of the way. You can't invest in services, people and the economy until you free up funds that are constantly being set aside for Brexit. They will never win a general election if they don't adress the main sticking point of Brexit. They can bang on about social inequality and everything else that is wrong with this country as much as they want, people have Brexit on the brain and they've no chance of changing that unless they fully address it!

That's some turn around. Maybe not 360, but you're half way there at least.

 

[Kentonio]

All that tells me is that Tories will form a majority government with TBP and DUP next election with a no deal mandate.

Despite their polling percentage, the Brexit Party are forecast to win exactly 0 seats. Looking at polling percentages is basically meaningless in terms of who will hold power after the next election.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

 

[Ultimate Grib]

That's some turn around. Maybe not 360, but you're half way there at least.

What are you even on about? No one is saying the issues this country is facing are not important, just that Brexit is far more important than all of them and closesly tied to anything that comes afterwards depending on which way it will go. You must be Corbyn in disguise if you don't recognise that Brexit is the stumbling block that must be removed in order to move on.

 

[Dobba]

What are you even on about? No one is saying the issues this country is facing are not important, just that Brexit is far more important than all of them and closesly tied to anything that comes afterwards depending on which way it will go. You must be Corbyn in disguise if you don't recognise that Brexit is the stumbling block that must be removed in order to move on.

No one is saying the issues this country is facing are not important, people just no longer give a shit about any of them other than Brexit. Got it.

 

[Kentonio]

No one is saying the issues this country is facing are not important, people just no longer give a shit about any of them other than Brexit. Got it.

Do people care about being able to pay their bills each month? Sure. Do people care about their kids getting a good education? Sure. Do people think about these things at a moment when their house is on fire? No, and that's the effect Brexit is having at the moment.

It's the single biggest British political event of our lifetimes and it will decide the future direction of the country for good or ill. Pretending we can just ignore that and focus on other things, ALL of which will be effected by this event is just weird.

 

[Dobba]

Do people care about being able to pay their bills each month? Sure. Do people care about their kids getting a good education? Sure. Do people think about these things at a moment when their house is on fire? No, and that's the effect Brexit is having at the moment.

It's the single biggest British political event of our lifetimes and it will decide the future direction of the country for good or ill. Pretending we can just ignore that and focus on other things, ALL of which will be effected by this event is just weird.

The single biggest British political event of my lifetime was Yvette Cooper and then the Tories deciding that disabled people like the one I loved more than anybody on the face of this earth, needed to be demonised and punished for being unable to work.

I do enjoy this line of reasoning though. So how come all these people who are suddenly concerned about the effect Brexit will have on us little people, were happily throwing us under the bus for years before Cameron dreamt up this shit show and why can't you stop cheering them?

 

[MadMike]

It's not a failure. It should have been a bigger margin because the main opponent was the same guy who was unseated by a petition of 19% of the constituents for submitting false expenses. It kinda shows the weakness of the other parties with the Conservatives fielding any old shit and still making it a close contest. It's ridiculously frustrating to see.

And? As if the majority of voters don't vote for the party and the politics instead of the actual MP.

If you manage to be disappointed at the overturning of this 2017 result, then the problem is merely with your exceptions, I'd say.

 

[Honest John]

Do people care about being able to pay their bills each month? Sure. Do people care about their kids getting a good education? Sure. Do people think about these things at a moment when their house is on fire? No, and that's the effect Brexit is having at the moment.

It's the single biggest British political event of our lifetimes and it will decide the future direction of the country for good or ill. Pretending we can just ignore that and focus on other things, ALL of which will be effected by this event is just weird.

That is Corbyn in a nutshell. He is is totally ambivalent about Brexit. He cares more about the social issues and injustices. Nothing wrong with that but, as per your post he doesn't appear to be able to join the dots.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

The single biggest British political event of my lifetime was Yvette Cooper and then the Tories deciding that disabled people like the one I loved more than anybody on the face of this earth, needed to be demonised and punished for being unable to work.

I do enjoy this line of reasoning though. So how come all these people who are suddenly concerned about the effect Brexit will have on us little people, were happily throwing us under the bus for years before Cameron dreamt up this shit show and why can't you stop cheering them?

And do you know what is going to happen? They will continue to do that with more and more people and if we don't get rid of them.

There's currently no chance of that happening if Corbyn continues to ignore the Brexit elephant.

People are not oblivious to the social issues, millions face them everyday, but they're sick and tired of hearing about Brexit, it just needs to go away so the focus can shift back to the things that are affecting people's lives on the daily.

 

[Ady87]

I'm not shocked by the numbers that still voted Conservative in the by-election. I don't think voters were particularly outraged that he fudged a few accounts with no particular financial gain and decided to still go out and vote for him.

As for Labour, I don't think they're appealing to enough people by trying to please all. I think adopting either extreme spells doom for them after Brexit is finalised given how traditional Labour territories in the north of the UK feel about versus London, Scotland etc

 

[Sassy Colin]

That's some turn around. Maybe not 360, but you're half way there at least.

I don't get it, surely it's 180, not 360

 

[Cheesy]

As you said they're not expected to win it and will have barely campaigned especially given it's not a GE campaign. It's not been won since the 70s.

This was a Lib Dem seat to win and they should have done it by a much bigger margin considering the tory candidate.

But surely the argument it's a seat they weren't going to win isn't really relevant if they have decided to stand there? If they were so unconvinced at even making a respectable crack at it, they'd have been as well standing aside for the Lib Dems. I get that it wasn't a target seat but a party for aspiring for government shouldn't be seeing their vote cut by a third in any seat they're standing for.

To put it simply - if someone had shown you the 2017 result for that seat, and said last year there'd be a by-election, and that the Lib Dems would get over eight times the total vote of the vote Labour did, then any Corbyn fan would've likely laughed in their face.

If Labour choose to stand in seats then they're going to get judged on their results in those seats.

 

[Smores]

But surely the argument it's a seat they weren't going to win isn't really relevant if they have decided to stand there? If they were so unconvinced at even making a respectable crack at it, they'd have been as well standing aside for the Lib Dems. I get that it wasn't a target seat but a party for aspiring for government shouldn't be seeing their vote cut by a third in any seat they're standing for.

To put it simply - if someone had shown you the 2017 result for that seat, and said last year there'd be a by-election, and that the Lib Dems would get over eight times the total vote of the vote Labour did, then any Corbyn fan would've likely laughed in their face.

If Labour choose to stand in seats then they're going to get judged on their results in those seats.

There are more benefits to standing for a seat than just winning it. Labour won't stand aside from seats without very good reason.

I'm not saying it's a good result I'm just saying it's not really worthy of much analysis. It's a Tory/Lib Dem swing seat in a constituency where the current Tory MP is being actively kicked out so it shouldn't be a surprise that people got behind the main opposition there. If i was in that seat I'd have probably voted Lib Dem too just to get rid of the Tory, which is what usually happens in these kind of seats.

 

[Dobba]

And do you know what is going to happen? They will continue to do that with more and more people and if we don't get rid of them.

There's currently no chance of that happening if Corbyn continues to ignore the Brexit elephant.

People are not oblivious to the social issues, millions face them everyday, but they're sick and tired of hearing about Brexit, it just needs to go away so the focus can shift back to the things that are affecting people's lives on the daily.

If by getting rid of them you mean whitewashing their records on such issues to give them rapturous receptions (i.e. Soubry, Grieve and Woke Jo Johnson) then absolutely. Look at the reaction people bringing up how Jo Swinson actually votes got.

 

[Shamwow]

But surely the argument it's a seat they weren't going to win isn't really relevant if they have decided to stand there? If they were so unconvinced at even making a respectable crack at it, they'd have been as well standing aside for the Lib Dems. I get that it wasn't a target seat but a party for aspiring for government shouldn't be seeing their vote cut by a third in any seat they're standing for.

To put it simply - if someone had shown you the 2017 result for that seat, and said last year there'd be a by-election, and that the Lib Dems would get over eight times the total vote of the vote Labour did, then any Corbyn fan would've likely laughed in their face.

If Labour choose to stand in seats then they're going to get judged on their results in those seats.

You're not going to get Labour to stand aside on seats in England, Wales & Ireland any time soon. No matter how small a chance they have of winning. Pretty sure the Tories are the same.

If you'd told the Corbynite that the Tory majority was down to 2 and that the Lib Dems historically had a much better chance of winning the seat I'm not convinced they would have laughed in your face but we'll have no way of knowing especially since "Corbynites" don't have homogeneous views as much as dickheads would like to call them cultists or whatever the new insult is.

 

[Kentonio]

You're not going to get Labour to stand aside on seats in England, Wales & Ireland any time soon. No matter how small a chance they have of winning. Pretty sure the Tories are the same.

If you'd told the Corbynite that the Tory majority was down to 2 and that the Lib Dems historically had a much better chance of winning the seat I'm not convinced they would have laughed in your face but we'll have no way of knowing especially since "Corbynites" don't have homogeneous views as much as dickheads would like to call them cultists or whatever the new insult is.

Labour need a kick up the arse then. This Tory government needs to be toppled before anything else positive can be achieved, and if that requires some tactical voting then that should be a no brainer. Especially as the other parties would reciprocate and help Labour win seats they might otherwise lose.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

If by getting rid of them you mean whitewashing their records on such issues to give them rapturous receptions (i.e. Soubry, Grieve and Woke Jo Johnson) then absolutely. Look at the reaction people bringing up how Jo Swinson actually votes got.

What will it take for you to understand that it's all about Brexit? We don't have an opposition to Brexit by Labour which should have been their natural position so anyone who does that gets a cheer naturally. It doesn't mean that people agree with everything they have done or they might stand for. It means that htey agree with their fierce opposition of Brexit.

 

[Dobba]

What will it take for you to understand that it's all about Brexit? We don't have an opposition to Brexit by Labour which should have been their natural position so anyone who does that gets a cheer naturally. It doesn't mean that people agree with everything they have done or they might stand for. It means that htey agree with their fierce opposition of Brexit.

What's the next excuse for not giving a shite about people's lives? Because there sure as hell will be one.

We really do care about your lives, but please keep quiet about that for one minute and cheer the feckers who've spent the last decade voting to screw you over - because they're terribly concerned that your life will be screwed over. Please, whatever you do, don't remember how we're completely incapable of working alongside Corbyn but will happily march alongside the architects and most loyal supporters of the last decade of political policy.

 

[Kentonio]

What's the next excuse for not giving a shite about people's lives? Because there sure as hell will be one.

We really do care about your lives, but please keep quiet about that for one minute and cheer the feckers who've spent the last decade voting to screw you over - because they're terribly concerned that your life will be screwed over. Please, whatever you do, don't remember how we're completely incapable of working alongside Corbyn but will happily march alongside the architects and most loyal supporters of the last decade of political policy.

The government just announced over £2b to be spent on PLANNING for a no deal Brexit that hardly anyone wants and might still not happen. If it does happen it will likely cost the country tens of billions.

What the feck is the point of talking about normal policies, all of which will require spending to make up for the drain caused by Tory austerity, if we’re just going to wave through something that will guarantee the money just isn’t there for any of them?

 

[Dobba]

The government just announced over £2b to be spent on PLANNING for a no deal Brexit that hardly anyone wants and might still not happen. If it does happen it will likely cost the country tens of billions.

What the feck is the point of talking about normal policies, all of which will require spending to make up for the drain caused by Tory austerity, if we’re just going to wave through something that will guarantee the money just isn’t there for any of them?

Some people would look at the government's ability to spend £2bn on anything as proof austerity was an ideological choice and be more inclined to tell the people who proposed, implemented and supported it to feck off even further. Instead I'm apparently supposed to be cheering them on.

Also, why wouldn't you be in favour of planning for No Deal when the Lib Dems want it as an option on any second referendum?

 

[Charlie Foley]

I really don’t know when the penny will drop for Labour that at this point people no longer give a shit about any other issues other than Brexit and that nothing else can be achieved until that’s out of the way.

I’ve done a full 360 on Corbyn and think he absolutely needs to go if there’s any chance of stopping a Conservative government. Considering the state of the country the opposition should have been miles ahead but it has been failed by its leadership of both Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. If only David had won we wouldn’t need to be talking about Conservatives, Corbyn or indeed fecking Brexit

So...you’re back to exactly where you started?

 

[Kentonio]

Some people would look at the government's ability to spend £2bn on anything as proof austerity was an ideological choice and be more inclined to tell the people who proposed, implemented and supported it to feck off even further. Instead I'm apparently supposed to be cheering them on.

Also, why wouldn't you be in favour of planning for No Deal when the Lib Dems want it as an option on any second referendum?

Of course austerity was an ideological choice. I'm not sure why you think anyone is suggesting you should be cheering on Tories. The vast majority of people supporting a second ref are on the left, so why does it matter if a few Tories support them against the majority of their own party? Why is THAT the thing we're supposed to focus on and do purity tests about?

 

[Dobba]

Of course austerity was an ideological choice. I'm not sure why you think anyone is suggesting you should be cheering on Tories. The vast majority of people supporting a second ref are on the left, so why does it matter if a few Tories support them against the majority of their own party? Why is THAT the thing we're supposed to focus on and do purity tests about?

Me and my purity tests of not wanting to get behind people who wilfully ruined the lives of people I care about

Wait until you see the reaction the austerity enabling Lib Dems winning a seat has been getting today.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

So...you’re back to exactly where you started?

Yes, there's an explanation a bit further down as most people think its a mistake.

What's the next excuse for not giving a shite about people's lives? Because there sure as hell will be one.

We really do care about your lives, but please keep quiet about that for one minute and cheer the feckers who've spent the last decade voting to screw you over - because they're terribly concerned that your life will be screwed over. Please, whatever you do, don't remember how we're completely incapable of working alongside Corbyn but will happily march alongside the architects and most loyal supporters of the last decade of political policy.

Brexit will hit hardest the very people who's corner you and Corbyn are fighting. I'd rather join a march with "the enemy" for the common goal than sit in obscurity with my head held high. Pride is the burden of a foolish person.

 

[Sweet Square]

Brexit will hit hardest the very people who's corner you and Corbyn are fighting. I'd rather join a march with "the enemy" for the common goal than sit in obscurity with my head held high. Pride is the burden of a foolish person.

Or you could just vote for the labour party who are offering a second referendum.

But why listen to one of the few forms of political organisations working people have in this country when you could instead march with Michael Heseltine.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Or you could just vote for the labour party who are offering a second referendum.

But why listen to one of the few forms of political organisations working people have in this country when you could instead march with Michael Heseltine.

No you wouldn't vote Labour because they are commited to delivering Brexit if they are in power. They will only ask for a referendum if a deal or no deal is brought by the Tories. Confused? Everyone is because no one is giving a straight answer and there's huge contradictions within the party when they should have been absolutely united behind a remain. This is why people have fecked them off. They fecked the first one and they are trying very hard to feck the second one too.

I'll march with Heseltine to stop Brexit and once that done I can easily go back to calling him a cnut. It's not like we're going to be best mates after its all over and done with.

 

[Sweet Square]

No you wouldn't vote Labour because they are commited to delivering Brexit if they are in power. They will only ask for a referendum if a deal or no deal is brought by the Tories. Confused? Everyone is because no one is giving a straight answer and there's huge contradictions within the party when they should have been absolutely united behind a remain. This is why people have fecked them off. They fecked the first one and they are trying very hard to feck the second one too.

Again the party is offering a second referendum and will have a second referendum in their manifesto if we get a election before 31st October. There is no stop brexit button.

Pride is the burden of a foolish person.

Look I'm not even saying vote labour regardless(Being smart can stop the tories)



but a lot remain people have melted their brains over the last few years.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There is no stop brexit button.

Because Corbyn has hidden it. Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[sun_tzu]

Or you could just vote for the labour party who are offering a second referendum.

.

Though vote for the labour party and they will negotiate a new brexit deal and then presumably campaign for leave (it's pretty inconceivable they could campaign against their own deal)

 

[Sweet Square]

Because Corbyn has hidden it. Sorry couldn't resist.

''Shakes fist''

Dam white text !

Though vote for the labour party and they will negotiate a new brexit deal and then presumably campaign for leave (it's pretty inconceivable they could campaign against their own deal)

Lets give it some time.

But no really remain people are still getting a referendum no ? And then it will be a labour deal(which if its any different than what the tories got will just be a soft brexit)vs remain with no deal off the table.

What to hate about that ?

 

[Ultimate Grib]

''Shakes fist''

Dam white text !


Lets give it some time.

But no really remain people are still getting a referendum no ? And then it will be a labour deal(which if its any different than what the tories got will just be a soft brexit)vs remain with no deal off the table.

What to hate about that ?

The fact that it’s Brexit

Isn’t it clear enough yet that remainers hate Brexit?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

''Shakes fist''

Dam white text !


Lets give it some time.

But no really remain people are still getting a referendum no ? And then it will be a labour deal(which if its any different than what the tories got will just be a soft brexit)vs remain with no deal off the table.

What to hate about that ?

On a serious note, you do realise that the Labour suggested deal is impossible and isn't a soft Brexit anyway. The only soft Brexit is remaining in the (not a) custom's union and in (not access to) the single market with the four freedoms included plus the contributions and no vote.