He was a tool.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
He was a tool.
I thought it was embarrassing. Gove might as well have been reading a note written by Murdoch:
Gove said:
yeah the alt right
Yeah I'd much prefer to just call Islamophobes a bunch of cnuts but it is what it is.
Just to be clear - You (and I) would much prefer to call those who behave in a bigoted/sectarian way towards Muslims a bunch of cnuts.
The problem I have is with the actual word, and how it seems to go beyond the above to include criticism of Islam itself.
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The only people I ever see complaining about being labelled Islamophobic are people who have engaged in Islamophobic behaviour.
That's people who have behaved in a bigoted/sectarian way towards Muslims making the complaint then.
It's weaponised language, designed to prevent any and all criticism of Islam. It should be rejected entirely.
So we've progressed to redefining language to support our opinions now then have we? Excellent.
I think most reasonable people understand what islamaphobia means - i.e discrimination based on someone being Muslim, or for some, looking like you might be Muslim.
That doesn't, and I dont think I've ever seen anyone ever suggest, until now, mean that you can't ever disagree with any element of Islamic teaching without being labelled Islamaphibic, but maybe you'll be able to enlighten me with some specific examples?
Spoiler alert: people (mis)use any kind of adjective to score points.
Given that the term includes the word 'phobia', I'm inclined to agree.
You're going to apply literal interpretation to commonly accepted terms?
You think calling someone homophobic literally means they fear mankind?
Libcafe.
Of an an Islamaphobe? Care to elaborate?
The reality is that the term is applied liberally to anyone critising Islam, essentially becoming a form of blasphemy law.
Maajid Nawaz also recognises this and explains the problem here:
As for specific examples, thoughtfully BobbyManc has provided one for you, condemning me for a post that is entirely fair and true, a post that is no way "islamaphobic" but instead is mearly anti rape gangs.
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@parkthebuslads In your example, you said it prevents criticism of Islam the religion, in the post @BobbyManc quoted, you were criticising the behaviour of some Muslims.
Correct, it prevents critising both islam and muslims, something we should be free to do when it's merited, in this case when speaking about rape gangs.
So you should have been more general, since your original complaint wasn't about criticising Muslims.
Btw, no-one in that thread called you Islamophobic. If you criticise "Muslims", and if you don't like being called Islamophobic, what would you prefer? Racist? Bigoted? What word meets your approval when you equate one group of people with one very negative behaviour?
The simple fact is that such gangs exist and they are typically exclusively comprised of muslims who the victims report to be religiously motivated. Consequentially it is impossible to separate the issue from Islam, hence my use of the descriptor "muslim" when referencing said gang.
In no way is that a commentary of the greater muslim population.
You're going to have to elaborate on this. Religiously motivated rape, with said motivation overt enough that the victims are aware of it?
This poll is probably one of the more compelling arguments against democracy that I've seen.
No, it means they fear "the same" (it comes from Ancient Greek, not Latin).
For no good reason apart from populism it is going to be Boris.
And for no good reason apart from populism it is going to be a no deal exit.
Don't think it is going to turn out well.
Yes the majority voted leave but they didn't vote to be worse off and that is exactly what is going to happen.
And for no good reason apart from populism it is going to be a no deal exit.
Don't think it is going to turn out well.
Yes the majority voted leave but they didn't vote to be worse off and that is exactly what is going to happen.
I'm Irish, we've literally had pedophile rings compromised exclusively of Catholic priests.
Never once have I heard them called Catholic rape gangs.
A phobia is an irrational fear. It's not correct to label an objection to the precepts of islam taking root and flourishing in a particular country as a phobia. On the contrary, it's a wholly rational position to take and not one governed by an irrational fear.
You could substitute the word islam with, say, communism and the exact same applies.
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Seems weirdly pedantic to me but OK, let's just revert to calling them bigots then, would you be happier?
To be fair, Catholic priests molesting kids is a universally understood, widespread stereotype and no one is called Catholicphobe for expressing it.
To be fair, no one suggests its religiously motivated either.
Some people do believe the problem is related to celibacy which is a religious discipline. Though as far as I'm aware, the experts disagree. But it is a cultural and institutional issue with the Catholic Church itself.
Whether it is or isnt a result of celibacy, that wouldn't mean its religiously motivated.
I guess not, in the sense that they certainly can't derive it from the Bible, the way the harshest critics of Islam claim the Quran and the hadiths teach values that are incompatible with a modern secular society.
I don't know if Islamophobia is really such a big problem or not but then I'm a bit of a religiophobe so certainly not as open-minded as I'd like to be. So maybe I have a tendency of downplaying it simply because I'd rather all religion just went away at last.
What was that then?
In a reasonable world Boris and Hunt would now be under considerable pressure over Saudi Arabia dealings with the UN report out. Stewart should call out them out on their actions and their hypocrisy
That he'll go back to the NI-only backstop. To gain consent for it he may put the issue to the people in a NI-only referendum.
Sound people, who do we want? Is there a best of the bad bunch? I've refused to show any interest in it, but I want to know so I can be disappointed in politics for the 500th time.
And when they say jog on? Presumably magic technology will become available