Westminster Politics 2024-2029

Jericholyte2 said:
I'd argue that, as the Tories went more and more niche and further to the right, the 'centre-right' became a vacuum which Labour then populated.
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Spot on, and regrettably they will probably need to stay there for at least a year of two, before 'shaking the (Tory) dust' from their feet and tacking back to left of centre..... and maybe even further!

However there is no 'Marshall Plan' (Funding) underwritten by the US (as post WW2) to use to 'move the dial'. It will be a case for Starmer's government to 'suck it and see'.

First lesson for Sir Keir buy your own 'clobber' and watch Arsenal on Sky Sport, from the comfort of No10.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Ahh but that's a chicken and egg situation, or the Overton window.

Tories were moving further and further right under Cameron, May, Boris, Truss, Sunak and that was when Milliband / Corbyn were leading the Opposition. I'd argue that, as the Tories went more and more niche and further to the right, the 'centre-right' became a vacuum which Labour then populated.
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Corbyn had Theresa May over to the left of Keir Starmer.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
The 7/7 bombings in London were a direct consequence of our government's involvement in the 'war on terror'.

That declassified tweet shows that we will once again become targets, after being involved in yet more massacres built entirely on lies.

It won't be the starmer's and badenochs who suffer though. It will be holidaymakers on a beach, or people on a bus going to work, or going to a fecking concert. They are putting us all at risk for no other reason than their own bravado.
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And they'll act shocked when such retaliation inevitably occurs again. And for what? How does this action against innocent people in these countries we're getting involved with benefit any of us?
 
Nogbadthebad said:
The 7/7 bombings in London were a direct consequence of our government's involvement in the 'war on terror'.

That declassified tweet shows that we will once again become targets, after being involved in yet more massacres built entirely on lies.

It won't be the starmer's and badenochs who suffer though. It will be holidaymakers on a beach, or people on a bus going to work, or going to a fecking concert. They are putting us all at risk for no other reason than their own bravado.
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It’s cowardice and racism more than bravado tbf. Certainly on the Labour side. They’re so utterly terrified of being accused of antisemitism they’ve inadvertently proved Corbyn right (whilst pissing off virtually every other minority) Though bombing some arabs has I’m sure been a nice little pet niche bonus for some of the more nasty Blairites

But yea, I’m almost certain we’re going to see the return of at least some attempted terrorism at home. Which would of course play further into Reform’s hands. All so utterly predictable.
 
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The demands would mean big projects such as hospital improvements, road building and defence projects being slowed down or stopped altogether as the government looks for ways to repair they say is a £22bn black hole in the public finances.

Economists warn that such cuts to capital spending could end up damaging the economy and Britain’s creaking public infrastructure.

Reeves, the chancellor, told the Labour party conference last week: “It is time the Treasury moved on from just counting the costs of investment in our economy
to recognising the benefits too. Growth is the challenge and investment is the solution.”

But Treasury officials argue that cutting spending on infrastructure in the short term is the only way to repair the gap quickly.

One Whitehall source said: “We’re being told the Treasury wants to borrow more to invest in the long term but that does not cover the fact we’re being asked to make major capital spending cuts this year and next.” The Treasury declined to comment on the spending review process.
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Why is he even addressing the nation about this? This has all gotten so ridiculous. Complete bitch of a government, and a racist one at that. Just spedrun to the late noughties New Labour government everyone hated before even doing anything good.
 
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GY1ME9KWsAUILNe

:lol:

Photo ops while a international crisis plays out is the only reason this man wanted to become PM.
 
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Sweet Square said:
Very strange

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I don't get the UK's obsession with Israel. At least with the US you have AIPAC which has a lot of politicians in their pocket, a lot of pro Israel billionaires and the evangelical people with their beliefs, so there's at least some reason for the pandering over there, but there is absolutely no reason for the UK to be like this. Is this all just to continue to be perceived as America's bitch?
 
Cloud7 said:
I don't get the UK's obsession with Israel. At least with the US you have AIPAC which has a lot of politicians in their pocket, a lot of pro Israel billionaires and the evangelical people with their beliefs, so there's at least some reason for the pandering over there, but there is absolutely no reason for the UK to be like this. Is this all just to continue to be perceived as America's bitch?
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So you don't think there's a massive Israel lobby (disguised as Jewish lobby) in UK politics? You don't remember a minister being sacked only a few years ago for colluding to send government money to Israel behind the Prime Minister's back? Did you think she was doing it out of the goodness of her heart?
 
TwoSheds said:
So you don't think there's a massive Israel lobby (disguised as Jewish lobby) in UK politics? You don't remember a minister being sacked only a few years ago for colluding to send government money to Israel behind the Prime Minister's back? Did you think she was doing it out of the goodness of her heart?
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To be fair I've only lived here for one year, so I'm not as abreast on things that have happened to that extent in years gone by, so no I did not know that.

But is the Israel lobby here as strong as it is in America? Also, even if the lobby is there, the support of the people isn't there like it is in America. Starmer isn't scoring points with the population with this rhetoric like Kamal or Trump would be.
 
Cloud7 said:
To be fair I've only lived here for one year, so I'm not as abreast on things that have happened to that extent in years gone by, so no I did not know that.

But is the Israel lobby here as strong as it is in America? Also, even if the lobby is there, the support of the people isn't there like it is in America. Starmer isn't scoring points with the population with this rhetoric like Kamal or Trump would be.
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Don't be fooled by the nicey nicey talk about two state solutions or "helping" Parliamentarians to "put forward a balanced view of Israel", these people are just spin doctors for apartheid: https://www.lfi.org.uk/

The Conservatives have the same sorts of things, as probably do the Lib Dems. The Israelis don't take chances when it comes to this sort of thing.

As for the US, firstly I'm not sure supporting Israel does play all that well with most ordinary folk, perhaps more that killing brown people does with some of them? And even then I think it's a minority. It helps that none of them could pick out the Middle East on a map if you want to dehumanise it all.
 
Someone said yesterday that badenoch is just a puppet for the tufton street crowd, and the more idiotic she becomes, the more I think its right.

Jenrick is from the same group, she seems to be trying to take all the flak for being the crazy one so he can take a clear run at the prize. Hes just as bad as she is, but keeping most of it quiet.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
The 7/7 bombings in London were a direct consequence of our government's involvement in the 'war on terror'.

That declassified tweet shows that we will once again become targets, after being involved in yet more massacres built entirely on lies.

It won't be the starmer's and badenochs who suffer though. It will be holidaymakers on a beach, or people on a bus going to work, or going to a fecking concert. They are putting us all at risk for no other reason than their own bravado.
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Hold on, do we know what the flight is for? My assumption is they are setting up a forward base to help UK nationals evacuate Lebanon.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Someone said yesterday that badenoch is just a puppet for the tufton street crowd, and the more idiotic she becomes, the more I think its right.

Jenrick is from the same group, she seems to be trying to take all the flak for being the crazy one so he can take a clear run at the prize. Hes just as bad as she is, but keeping most of it quiet.
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They’re both clearly taking leaves out of Trump’s book as well.
 
nickm said:
Hold on, do we know what the flight is for? My assumption is they are setting up a forward base to help UK nationals evacuate Lebanon.
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But I’m sure involving ourselves in another needless Middle Eastern war against huge public sentiment and potentially making us a target for reprisals all to avoid standing up to a far right demagogue’s desire for a forever war to keep him out of jail was all done in a very grown up and sensible way
 
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Mockney said:




But I’m sure involving ourselves in another needless Middle Eastern war against huge public sentiment was all done in a very grown up and sensible way
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I just don’t see how enabling Israel to disrupt the Middle East is in our interests. Just the other day Starmer addressed the UN and specifically said that stability in the Middle East means stability at home yet here we are a few days later supporting Israel’s imperialistic expansion into the Middle East which is going to create millions of refugees who will inevitably flood into Europe and end up on our doorstep.


Congratulations to Reform for their supermajority in 2029.
 
Pexbo said:
I just don’t see how enabling Israel to disrupt the Middle East is in our interests. Just the other day Starmer addressed the UN and specifically said that stability in the Middle East means stability at home yet here we are a few days later supporting Israel’s imperialistic expansion into the Middle East which is going to create millions of refugees who will inevitably flood into Europe and end up on our doorstep.


Congratulations to Reform for their supermajority in 2029.
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Because when they say stability they don't mean a balance of power.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Someone said yesterday that badenoch is just a puppet for the tufton street crowd, and the more idiotic she becomes, the more I think its right.

Jenrick is from the same group, she seems to be trying to take all the flak for being the crazy one so he can take a clear run at the prize. Hes just as bad as she is, but keeping most of it quiet.
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They are both doing the thing Truss did which is play up to friendly audiences who are Tory members but as soon as she came back into the real world where she was challenged, she was found out. If Jenrick does win, there will be alot of sleaze which comes out about him I think. That planning decision for a Tory donor will be dug up and scrutinised again, it was a shocking piece of corruption.
 
Pexbo said:
I just don’t see how enabling Israel to disrupt the Middle East is in our interests. Just the other day Starmer addressed the UN and specifically said that stability in the Middle East means stability at home yet here we are a few days later supporting Israel’s imperialistic expansion into the Middle East which is going to create millions of refugees who will inevitably flood into Europe and end up on our doorstep.


Congratulations to Reform for their supermajority in 2029.
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Netanyahu is exploiting the lame duck president moment the US is going through to do whatever he wants. After all people won't be thinking of his corruption charges when there's a war going on.

US has to support him and so do we and its not about right and wrong its about politics which is the real evil in this world but we have to live with it.
 
TheGame said:
They are both doing the thing Truss did which is play up to friendly audiences who are Tory members but as soon as she came back into the real world where she was challenged, she was found out. If Jenrick does win, there will be alot of sleaze which comes out about him I think. That planning decision for a Tory donor will be dug up and scrutinised again, it was a shocking piece of corruption.
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You mean the Richard Desmond bit? Starmer and co are bad, but honestly what they're accused of doesn't touch the sides to Robert Jenrick.
 
Cloud7 said:
I don't get the UK's obsession with Israel. At least with the US you have AIPAC which has a lot of politicians in their pocket, a lot of pro Israel billionaires and the evangelical people with their beliefs, so there's at least some reason for the pandering over there, but there is absolutely no reason for the UK to be like this. Is this all just to continue to be perceived as America's bitch?
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After WW2 the military coalition known as the 'Allies' (and led nominally by the big 3 USA, UK, Soviet Union) decided to provide a homeland for the Jewish people and eventually nominated land in the middle-east now known as Israel. This land had been formerly part of the Ottoman territories placed under UK administration by the League of Nations (later to become the United Nations) in 1922.

In 1948 The United Nations, via Res 181 divided what had been Britain's Palestinian Mandate, into Jewish and Arab States

Britain has a responsibility and has been involved in helping to try a create Israel/Palestine states and since 1948. it has tried to broker peace. Immediately after the UN resolution established Israel as a State (but not Palestine) a number of surrounding Arab nations declared they would drive the Jews into the sea. At this point the US and UK became leaders in helping Israel to survive.
 
Cloud7 said:
To be fair I've only lived here for one year, so I'm not as abreast on things that have happened to that extent in years gone by, so no I did not know that.

But is the Israel lobby here as strong as it is in America? Also, even if the lobby is there, the support of the people isn't there like it is in America. Starmer isn't scoring points with the population with this rhetoric like Kamal or Trump would be.
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Not as large a percentage as Harris or Trump, but you're underestimating the support Israel has in the UK. Plus the level of islamophobia.

Just look at the Times, Tel, DM, Sun etc.. they're all very pro-Israel. The caf is a terrible barometer of public opinion on anything politics related (barring dislike of Starmer, which is near-universal anyway).
 
Jippy said:
Not as large a percentage as Harris or Trump, but you're underestimating the support Israel has in the UK. Plus the level of islamophobia.

Just look at the Times, Tel, DM, Sun etc.. they're all very pro-Israel. The caf is a terrible barometer of public opinion on anything politics related (barring dislike of Starmer, which is near-universal anyway).
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Its not the cafe out of sync with public opinion, its the politicians and the media they get their info from

 
Nogbadthebad said:
Its not the cafe out of sync with public opinion, its the politicians and the media they get their info from

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Maybe I've been reading UK papers and their comment sections too much.

On Caf being out of sync generally was thinking more Brexit, Corbyn etc...
 
Jippy said:
Maybe I've been reading UK papers and their comment sections too much.

On Caf being out of sync generally was thinking more Brexit, Corbyn etc...
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Oh for sure, it would normally be the case, this one surprised me when it popped up.

The breakdown from yougov showed something like 80% of Labour voters supported a ceasefire, and more than half of tory voters too.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Oh for sure, it would normally be the case, this one surprised me when it popped up.

The breakdown from yougov showed something like 80% of Labour voters supported a ceasefire, and more than half of tory voters too.
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Surprised with Tories in particular. The four leadership candidates are falling over themselves to be more gung ho in their support than the next.
 
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