Westminster Politics 2024-2029

For what it’s worth I think this “£20bn black hole” is Labour’s attempt at making an equivalent to Liam Byrne’s “I’m afraid there is no money left” note which stuck hard and destroyed Labour’s fiscal reputation.


They are rightly doing their best to make sure the public know just how badly they were running the economy and they want the Tories to forever be tarnished with the reputation that they’re completely irresponsible.
 
It’s no problem, and thanks for taking them in good faith.

And to be clear I’m in no way suggesting anyone has had it easy, but too many in your generation see the technology available now (like widescreen TVs etc) and make ignorant assumptions about the difficulties that the current generation face.
Weird how widescreen TVs are cosnidered technology when they've been around since the late 90s.
 
For what it’s worth I think this “£20bn black hole” is Labour’s attempt at making an equivalent to Liam Byrne’s “I’m afraid there is no money left” note which stuck hard and destroyed Labour’s fiscal reputation.


They are rightly doing their best to make sure the public know just how badly they were running the economy and they want the Tories to forever be tarnished with the reputation that they’re completely irresponsible.
I agree.

People forget Labour under Blair did a very similar thing, people misremember that they entered no.10 and just started hosing money, it took 18 months before they started really going to town.
 
Everyone still looking at housing in the short term.

SOmeone said further up that government can't afford to oversee a hit to house prices because of the cost in votes.

But the country cannot afford NOt to reset housing by building council homes. Remember, over 60% of what is now referred to as the welfare budget is pensions payments, including pension credits. The next biggest is housing benefit.

What do you think happens when we get a generation retiring when more people are renting than own a property? Because that is the 4inevitable consequence of where we are going. The cost of retirees that still need £1000 a month to keep a roof over their heads will collapse the entire system.

Change has to come. Whether politicians like it or not.
That was me, and unfortunately it's true, no single government/party can fix it on their own, a solution to housing/pensions/benefits would require the main political parties to agree on a solution, in the real world that's as likely to happen as United winning the PL, England winning the nest WC and me winning the EURO milions at the same time!
 
22.3% pay off for Junior doctors. Just like the Tories...
 

Urgh, politicians and their "difficult decisions" are back. It's not a difficult decision, it's rather fecking easy to screw folk over. A truly difficult decision would be to tell the richest to pay up a teeny bit more and use that money to help society in general.
 
22.3% pay off for Junior doctors. Just like the Tories...

That’s the headline figure, please provide the details.

This includes on average the 13.2% rise already given in 22/23- and now the vote is for a further 4% pay rise for that year. For context Victoria Atkins offered 3% in December and this was not put to the members.

The remainder of the 22.3% figure is made up of 6-9% rise the DDRB have recommended for 24/25, this is not going to a vote.

This isn’t a great offer, it puts the pay decline to ~21%, when the doctors started to strike the decline was around 26%. The aim for the BMA was to provide a path to pay restoration and to ensure any further pay recommendations are linked to inflation
 
Isn’t it still less than what the junior doctors are asking for(A 35% pay rise)

Pretty much all docs knew this was unrealistic in the short term and that this should form the beginning of a process to reach pay restoration in the medium term.

Think it will.be accepted to be honest.
 
That’s the headline figure, please provide the details.

This includes on average the 13.2% rise given in 22/23- and now the vote is for a further 4% pay rise for that year. For context Victoria Atkins offered 3% in December and this was not put to the members.

The remainder of the 22.3% figure is made up of 6-9% rise the DDRB have recommended for 24/25, this is not going to a vote.

This isn’t a great offer, it puts the pay decline to ~21%, when the doctors started to strike the decline was around 26%.
Absolutely no one, including those striking, excepted anything close to immediate pay restoration. That's why the BMA are taking it to their members. Parity will take a number of years.
 
Absolutely no one, including those striking, excepted anything close to immediate pay restoration. That's why the BMA are taking it to their members. Parity will take a number of years.

Your reply has got absolutely nothing to do with my post.

I am simply highlighting your original post which gives the impression that junior doctors are getting a 22.3% pay rise. Which if you look at the follow up posts is what people are taking from that.

I have broken that down to provide a clearer context to what the offer actually entails, which isn’t that different from the Tories. That highlight figure has been leaked by the government early this morning to put pressure on the union- it’s also cleverly been leaked following the news of how poor the public services finances are currently
 
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Your reply has got absolutely nothing to do with my post.

I am simply highlighting your original post which gives the impression that junior doctors are getting a 22.3% pay rise. Which if you look at the follow up posts is what people are taking from that.

I have broken that down to provide a clearer context to what the offer actually entails, which isn’t that different from the Tories. That highlight figure has been leaked by the government early this morning to put pressure on the union- it’s also cleverly been leaked following the news of how poor the public services finances are currently
If the Union Committee felt it isn’t different from the Tories they would not have put it to their members and set out a statement about working together with the Government accordingly. They could have rejected it like they had done the previous offers.
 
I missed the election of the Deputy Speakers.

They are:

Chairman of Ways and Means - Nus Ghani (Tory)

First Deputy Chairman - Judith Cummins (Labour)

Second Deputy Chairman - Caroline Nokes (Tory)

Good choices.
 
Teachers in England to get pay rise of 5.5%, Bridget Phillipson, education secretary, says

Senior civil servants will receive a pay rise of 5%, Georgia Gould, the Cabinet Office minister, has told MPs in a written statement.

Police officers in England and Wales to get 4.75% pay rise, Home Office says

Members of armed forces to get 6% pay rise, MoD says

Prison officers to get 5% pay rise, and judges 6%, justice secretary Shabana Mahmood says

All pay recommendations accepted. The announcements were made via written statements.
 
Teachers in England to get pay rise of 5.5%, Bridget Phillipson, education secretary, says

Senior civil servants will receive a pay rise of 5%, Georgia Gould, the Cabinet Office minister, has told MPs in a written statement.

Police officers in England and Wales to get 4.75% pay rise, Home Office says

Members of armed forces to get 6% pay rise, MoD says

Prison officers to get 5% pay rise, and judges 6%, justice secretary Shabana Mahmood says

All pay recommendations accepted. The announcements were made via written statements.

The teacher pay rise is also fully funded, something hidden in the Tory ‘offers’ last year - a pay rise but unfunded so the schools would have to find the money for it via redundancies and cuts.

I tell you what, these Red Tories are shit at their job of being just like the Tories.
 
The teacher pay rise is also fully funded, something hidden in the Tory ‘offers’ last year - a pay rise but unfunded so the schools would have to find the money for it via redundancies and cuts.

I tell you what, these Red Tories are shit at their job of being just like the Tories.
Something something pivot something.
 
Pensioners who can afford their own costs having to pay winter fuel just like everyone else and those who need it still getting the payment, wow what a shock that is.
Just for some context.

You have to have an income of LESS than £11,500 a year to qualify for pension credit.

That is, you can't claim credit if all you get is the full state pension, which is the lowest, by far, in western europe.

The other thing is, £2.1 billion a year in pension credit goes unclaimed. I'll take a bet that those people will start claiming what they are entitled to now, and the cut to winter payments will actually cost us money in the long term.
 
For what it’s worth I think this “£20bn black hole” is Labour’s attempt at making an equivalent to Liam Byrne’s “I’m afraid there is no money left” note which stuck hard and destroyed Labour’s fiscal reputation.


They are rightly doing their best to make sure the public know just how badly they were running the economy and they want the Tories to forever be tarnished with the reputation that they’re completely irresponsible.

This isn't new information. They just ignored it during the campaign and are presenting it as new information because they think we are all stupid.
 
This isn't new information. They just ignored it during the campaign and are presenting it as new information because they think we are all stupid.
Which doesn’t contradict my point?
 
My father in law worked as a fireman in London but lived out in Kent because it was cheaper. He always had at least one other job at the same time to help make ends meet, whether it was painting & decorating, labouring, doorman at a casino then doing his primary job as a fireman.

Goodness me, he was a busy man wasn't he. Well done to him.
 
Just for some context.

You have to have an income of LESS than £11,500 a year to qualify for pension credit.

That is, you can't claim credit if all you get is the full state pension, which is the lowest, by far, in western europe.

The other thing is, £2.1 billion a year in pension credit goes unclaimed. I'll take a bet that those people will start claiming what they are entitled to now, and the cut to winter payments will actually cost us money in the long term.

It's not just pension credit, if you get another means tested benefit, you will still get the winter fuel allowance.
 
Just for some context.

You have to have an income of LESS than £11,500 a year to qualify for pension credit.

That is, you can't claim credit if all you get is the full state pension, which is the lowest, by far, in western europe.

The other thing is, £2.1 billion a year in pension credit goes unclaimed. I'll take a bet that those people will start claiming what they are entitled to now, and the cut to winter payments will actually cost us money in the long term.
I doubt it, a large chunk of people probably don't know they are entitled to it and in some cases won't claim it because the are 'asamed" to do so, I bet there's a lot of other unclaimed benefits around as well, the sysyem is just so complicated that people often don't know or give up
 
Just for some context.

You have to have an income of LESS than £11,500 a year to qualify for pension credit.

That is, you can't claim credit if all you get is the full state pension, which is the lowest, by far, in western europe.
This bugs me. The pensions systems in Europe are structured in a very different way to the UK system with pensions funded by far higher levels of contribution than you get in the state system. In the UK those extra contribs go into private rather than state schemes, so you have to include those too. So to a degree, pensioners who complain about their state pension are complaining because they simply didn't pay enough in, unlike many European schemes.
 
Long but detailed analysis of Reeves' speech from IFS.

IFS further commentary of Rachel Reeves’ fiscal audit​

For immediate release​


Find below our further commentary on: public sector pay, public spending, reforms to the spending framework, the social care cap and the Advanced British Standard.


Public sector pay
Bee Boileau, Research Economist at the IFS, said:
The single largest pressure on day-to-day public spending identified today by Rachel Reeves is higher-than-expected public sector pay awards for 2024–25, resulting in an additional cost of £9.4bn. Reeves announced that pay awards would be in the region of 5–6%, in line with this year’s recommendations from the Pay Review Bodies.
These pay awards are certainly higher than what departments were budgeting for, with spending plans based on an assumption that pay awards would be around 2% this year. But pay awards in this range should not have been a complete surprise. The Bank of England has published multiple forecasts for private sector pay settlements in the region of 5.5%. It was far from certain that recommendations would come in this high. But they were always likely to exceed the 2% rate of inflation, given ongoing concerns around recruitment and retention.
The government is asking departments to absorb a third of the additional costs from the higher pay award this year. This is not a new phenomenon: the government estimates departments have managed to absorb most of the £11-12 billion costs from higher-than-expected pay settlements in 2022–23 and 2023–24 (when pay awards came in around 2 and 4 percentage points higher than planned, respectively). But each time departments are asked to do this, it gets harder. This policy has limits. And there is always a risk that departments meet pay pressures by raiding capital budgets, undermining much-needed efforts to boost public sector productivity.
Crucially, public sector pay rises are a permanent change in spending. We can expect these to pass through into future years, and add to the challenge at the Spending Review.”

Public spending
Max Warner, Research Economist at the IFS, said:
Rachel Reeves set out £35 billion of in-year pressures on day-to-day public service spending. As well as public sector pay (£9.4 billion for awards this year, plus a £2.2 billion overhang from awards last year), this included £6.4 billion for asylum and illegal migration, and £2.9 billion for rail services. £13 billion of the total pressures identified can be covered by reserve funding and underspends elsewhere, leaving £22 billion in remaining funding pressures.
The government has been careful not to commit to providing funding to meet all of these pressures. We’ll have to wait for the October Budget and Spending Review for the final details. But even if the proposed £5.5 billion of in-year savings can be successfully found, and even if the government can identify some further in-year savings by the time of the Budget, it seems likely there will still need to be substantial top-ups to budgets this year.
Rachel Reeves’ statement focused on 2024-25, the financial year in progress. These spending pressures are separate from the implied cuts to unprotected public services in future years, which have received considerably more attention.
On the future of public service spending, and what lies in store for unprotected departments, today’s statement essentially leaves us none the wiser. We don’t know the extent to which the spending pressures set out today will prove to be permanent. And we don’t know the extent to which top-ups to budgets for 2024-25 will feed through to future years. In some cases, such as public sector pay, we should clearly expect these increases to be permanent. For a Chancellor with a debt target and a promise not to raise taxes on working people, this could spell fiscal trouble.”

Reforms to the spending framework
Ben Zaranko, Senior Research Economist at the IFS, said:

“The decision to carry out a one-year spending review this autumn, followed by a more comprehensive multi-year spending review next spring, strikes a sensible balance. It is also welcome that, going forward, the Treasury have committed to hold a multi-year spending review every two years. Regular reviews should prevent public service budgets and the demands on those budgets from getting so out of whack - the root cause of many of the in-year overspends revealed today. It will also make it harder for governments to game the fiscal rules by pencilling in future spending cuts they have no intention of delivering.
The requirement for the Treasury to share more details of the pressures on departmental budgets with the OBR is eminently sensible, as is the commitment to hold only one major fiscal event a year. The proof will be in the pudding, but these changes should lead to better and more transparent fiscal policy making.”

Social care cap
David Sturrock, Senior Research Economist at the IFS, said:

"The Chancellor has announced she is scrapping reforms to adult social care in England that were due to come into effect in October 2025, but for which funding had yet to be allocated. These reforms would have capped the costs people have to pay towards their care over their lifetime, and increased the generosity of means-tests that determine who qualifies for support with care costs from local councils (for those yet to reach the cap). The decision not to go ahead with this expansion of the welfare state will save £1 billion next financial year, and around £4 - 5 billion a year by the end of the parliament.
However, scrapping these reforms means the risk of extremely high social care costs (that in some cases can total hundreds of thousands of pounds) will remain with individuals, other than for those with low income and assets. Those who end up with the highest care needs – such as those who need dementia care for a number of years – will continue to pay the most. This is in contrast to other areas of life where insurance (such as life or house insurance) or state provision (such as the NHS) allows major risks to be shared to a greater degree. And with both services under pressure and unhappiness about the current model of funding, the government may still see itself having to find substantial funds for social care services further down the line. Indeed without reform it is difficult to discern what Labour’s proposed ‘National Care Service’ will entail beyond an aim for better terms and conditions for staff.”

Advanced British Standard
Imran Tahir, Research Economist at the IFS, said:

“Less than a year after it was announced, one of the biggest shake-ups in England’s qualifications system has been cancelled. The Advanced British Standard was supposed to replace both A levels and T levels, bringing in a harmonised and broader curriculum with a 15% increase in teaching hours. While this is a choice to row back on planned future reforms (rather than a new change in itself), it still contributes to the almost permanent revolution that vocational education has found itself in for the last 30 years. That policy churn has its own costs.
But in fiscal terms, the bigger costs were still well ahead in the future: the Advanced British Standard was not set to be rolled out until the mid-2030s. For this year and next, the previous government had promised around £100 million a year for teacher recruitment and retention and £150 million a year to support students re-sitting maths and English GCSEs - both of which the current government says it will continue. That means that it is less clear where the planned £185 million of savings next year will come from. But the serious longer-term savings will come from a genuine scaling back of ambitions to increase teaching time closer to the norm in many other high-income countries.”​