We're trialling a new newbie system

Varun said:
You just have to look at the quality of posts from the mains posters atm to realise that newbies aren't the reason for the low quality. If we were as harsh on mains guys as we're on newbies in terms of QC, we'd lose a lot of posters. Unfortunately, a bad run of results always results in this mess. Mains and newbies alike.
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Sorry but you're wrong and it's not just me that thinks it.

As detailed in this thread some of the tripe getting posted by newbies is ridiculous along with the mentality. Having been here some time the dip is obvious so I wasn't surprised to see a new system had come into place.

Even some off the oppo fans clearly haven't had to work to her up here.
 
TheReligion said:
Sorry but you're wrong and it's not just me that thinks it.

As detailed in this thread some of the tripe getting posted by newbies is ridiculous along with the mentality. Having been here some time the dip is obvious so I wasn't surprised to see a new system had come into place.

Even some off the oppo fans clearly haven't had to work to her up here.
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Are you talking about the newbies on the trial, or newly-promoted newbies? No-one has to 'work' to get on the trial, the vast majority are just selected at random.
 
Penna said:
Are you talking about the newbies on the trial, or newly-promoted newbies? No-one has to 'work' to get on the trial, the vast majority are just selected at random.
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New promoted. Theres one in the Mkhitaryan thread at the moment posting utter tripe.
 
TheReligion said:
New promoted. Theres one in the Mkhitaryan thread at the moment posting utter tripe.
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If he's just been promoted, he's had more scrutiny than newbies of old used to get. The system has changed for the better even in the last 3 years. Scouts and modmins make notes on their profiles, we dislike posts which aren't up to scratch in the newbies and there's a great deal of discussion about individual posters. A lot more people are involved in the whole process.

If there's a problem with an individual post which you feel breaks the site rules in some way, then please report it. If it's just the poster's opinion that you're taking issue with, it's a fact that some (not all) new promotees take a while to get used to posting regularly in the mains football threads alongside all the long-established members (I don't know if you went through the old-style newbie system, if you did you'll know that the newbie forums have a very different feel). Easing the transition is something the newbie trial will hopefully address.
 
Penna said:
If he's just been promoted, he's had more scrutiny than newbies of old used to get. The system has changed for the better even in the last 3 years. Scouts and modmins make notes on their profiles, we dislike posts which aren't up to scratch in the newbies and there's a great deal of discussion about individual posters. A lot more people are involved in the whole process.

If there's a problem with an individual post which you feel breaks the site rules in some way, then please report it. If it's just the poster's opinion that you're taking issue with, it's a fact that some (not all) new promotees take a while to get used to posting regularly in the mains football threads alongside all the long-established members (I don't know if you went through the old-style newbie system, if you did you'll know that the newbie forums have a very different feel). Easing the transition is something the newbie trial will hopefully address.
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Doubt it. Back in my day you had to stay down for at least 2 years, 9000 posts and 5 werewolf games before anyone would even think about promoting you. These guys have it easy.
 
Penna said:
If he's just been promoted, he's had more scrutiny than newbies of old used to get. The system has changed for the better even in the last 3 years. Scouts and modmins make notes on their profiles, we dislike posts which aren't up to scratch in the newbies and there's a great deal of discussion about individual posters. A lot more people are involved in the whole process.

If there's a problem with an individual post which you feel breaks the site rules in some way, then please report it. If it's just the poster's opinion that you're taking issue with, it's a fact that some (not all) new promotees take a while to get used to posting regularly in the mains football threads alongside all the long-established members (I don't know if you went through the old-style newbie system, if you did you'll know that the newbie forums have a very different feel). Easing the transition is something the newbie trial will hopefully address.
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Thats fair enough and thanks for taking the time to reply with all that.

As said just the feel of the place with the newbs coming through doesn't seem great at the moment.
 
TheReligion said:
Thats fair enough and thanks for taking the time to reply with all that.

As said just the feel of the place with the newbs coming through doesn't seem great at the moment.
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No problem, it's helpful when posters give their feedback, particularly people who've been here a lot of years. :)
 
Penna said:
If he's just been promoted, he's had more scrutiny than newbies of old used to get. The system has changed for the better even in the last 3 years. Scouts and modmins make notes on their profiles, we dislike posts which aren't up to scratch in the newbies and there's a great deal of discussion about individual posters. A lot more people are involved in the whole process.

If there's a problem with an individual post which you feel breaks the site rules in some way, then please report it. If it's just the poster's opinion that you're taking issue with, it's a fact that some (not all) new promotees take a while to get used to posting regularly in the mains football threads alongside all the long-established members (I don't know if you went through the old-style newbie system, if you did you'll know that the newbie forums have a very different feel). Easing the transition is something the newbie trial will hopefully address.
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Is similar work/scrutiny involved when choosing new scouts and modmins?

If so, how do you explain Cina?
 
There's definitely been a drop in quality. I know everyone shitposts, but lately when I see a really crappy post and look at their post count it's usually under 500.
 
VeevaVee said:
There's definitely been a drop in quality. I know everyone shitposts, but lately when I see a really crappy post and look at their post count it's usually under 500.
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Maybe, but I'd just add that some of the newbies to get promoted under this trial have written pretty detailed posts, lots of them of better quality than you'll find in the mains, and quite a few of them have under 200 posts.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Maybe, but I'd just add that some of the newbies to get promoted under this trial have written pretty detailed posts, lots of them of better quality than you'll find in the mains, and quite a few of them have under 200 posts.
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Yeah, that's fair. I probably don't look at their post count when it's a decent post so haven't noticed how it's balanced.
 
VeevaVee said:
Yeah, that's fair. I probably don't look at their post count when it's a decent post so haven't noticed how it's balanced.
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Yeah, and it's not to say that there aren't some trialists of a low quality (there are), but the really bad ones will be infracted out -- would actually help a lot if people would report the posts they think are of a very low quality, or break the rules.
 
VeevaVee said:
Yeah, that's fair. I probably don't look at their post count when it's a decent post so haven't noticed how it's balanced.
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What @Mciahel Goodman said is pretty much true to be honest, and also @Penna. It clearly depends on the scrutinisation of the newbies. Should a newbie create a post that is actually readable, is in context, with one paragraph leading to another, it makes for interesting reading, I know I prefer it that way. When you get your first like, you know that you have done something correct and the scouts/modmins have noted this for future reference. They will look for future posts every now and then just to see if the quality is the same and maybe by chance, you will get another one. In my case, I was extremely lucky, when I only joined on the 30th of October and the first time I had the right to post was Tuesday the 1st. I was promoted on the 7th so, it took 8 days and 81 posts. Mind you, I was advised to post more...:lol: @VeevaVee
 
woodhouseparkred said:
What @Mciahel Goodman said is pretty much true to be honest, and also @Penna. It clearly depends on the scrutinisation of the newbies. Should a newbie create a post that is actually readable, is in context, with one paragraph leading to another, it makes for interesting reading, I know I prefer it that way. When you get your first like, you know that you have done something correct and the scouts/modmins have noted this for future reference. They will look for future posts every now and then just to see if the quality is the same and maybe by chance, you will get another one. In my case, I was extremely lucky, when I only joined on the 30th of October and the first time I had the right to post was Tuesday the 1st. I was promoted on the 7th so, it took 8 days and 81 posts. Mind you, I was advised to post more...:lol: @VeevaVee
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You did very well, woodhouseparkred. We do spot good posters very quickly, because there's a lot of people looking over the threads, both in the newbies and the mains - then the poster gets a special mention in our secret dispatches. ;)

if you don't see scouts and modmins posting, it doesn't mean they're not reading. Good posts rarely get missed under the new system.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Maybe, but I'd just add that some of the newbies to get promoted under this trial have written pretty detailed posts, lots of them of better quality than you'll find in the mains, and quite a few of them have under 200 posts.
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This is the crux of the matter, yes there are more poor quality contributions from Newbies but there are also lots of very good contributions too.

The new system is focused on encouraging new members to participate and better identify the good ones. The old system was far too harsh, tarring everybody as rubbish posters until they get 10 likes before letting them near the mains.

It's not surprising most people don't stick around, the drop off rate after registration has been huge. We have lost a lot of potentially great new members over the years because of it.

Yes more poorer quality posts in the mains are a side effect of the new system but the scouts and mods work really hard on policing this. You can support them by using the report feature to let them know about such posts.

A big change like this is always going to have growing pains, so please do keep airing your concerns here, I want this to work for everyone.
 
I like the new system, there're a lot of advantages.

  1. Gets newbies to post more.
  2. Newbies feel like they're contributing to the main discourse.
  3. Full members get to see some of the newbies. It's a community, more interaction is good.
  4. While there are some poorer quality posts in the mains, it does mean poor posters get spotted far quicker and get booted faster.
 
Niall said:
This is the crux of the matter, yes there are more poor quality contributions from Newbies but there are also lots of very good contributions too.

The new system is focused on encouraging new members to participate and better identify the good ones. The old system was far too harsh, tarring everybody as rubbish posters until they get 10 likes before letting them near the mains.

It's not surprising most people don't stick around, the drop off rate after registration has been huge. We have lost a lot of potentially great new members over the years because of it.

Yes more poorer quality posts in the mains are a side effect of the new system but the scouts and mods work really hard on policing this. You can support them by using the report feature to let them know about such posts.

A big change like this is always going to have growing pains, so please do keep airing your concerns here, I want this to work for everyone.
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Penna said:
You did very well, woodhouseparkred. We do spot good posters very quickly, because there's a lot of people looking over the threads, both in the newbies and the mains - then the poster gets a special mention in our secret dispatches. ;)

if you don't see scouts and modmins posting, it doesn't mean they're not reading. Good posts rarely get missed under the new system.
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In an ideal world, the perfect start to a newbie career would be to start off with a very good and informative post that people will enjoy reading. If the first 10 posts are in the newbie general, no matter how good they may be, it is essentially a football forum and one of the criteria to being promoted is that you need to have a relatively solid base in football and most certainly Manchester United. However, being Manchester United fans, we all support the team, but as human beings, opinions will vary to a degree where there may be some poster ridiculing another simply because of an opinion. It is the comeback to such ridiculing that decides how if a newbie poster will make it in the Mains or not. It is relatively easy to admit you are wrong, and admitting this will only help you get better and get you spotted because it means that you are showing an attitude of responsibility and going to the mains, you need to be responsible for your own words and actions. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the forum is working as a whole, and if I could advise a newbie on how to make it into the mains, then I would because it is simple if you stick to the rules, the regulations and a particular way of posting.
 
woodhouseparkred said:
In an ideal world, the perfect start to a newbie career would be to start off with a very good and informative post that people will enjoy reading. If the first 10 posts are in the newbie general, no matter how good they may be, it is essentially a football forum and one of the criteria to being promoted is that you need to have a relatively solid base in football and most certainly Manchester United. However, being Manchester United fans, we all support the team, but as human beings, opinions will vary to a degree where there may be some poster ridiculing another simply because of an opinion. It is the comeback to such ridiculing that decides how if a newbie poster will make it in the Mains or not. It is relatively easy to admit you are wrong, and admitting this will only help you get better and get you spotted because it means that you are showing an attitude of responsibility and going to the mains, you need to be responsible for your own words and actions. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the forum is working as a whole, and if I could advise a newbie on how to make it into the mains, then I would because it is simple if you stick to the rules, the regulations and a particular way of posting.
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Yeah, good post. The newbies that post something and handle criticism well are generally the best of the bunch, as some can make a very good post but then fall to pieces and revert to name calling as soon as someone disagrees.

As for the general, we don't give out likes in there usually (it is a football forum, that's what counts), but it is good to see members posting about politics and more general topics because the last thing anyone wants is someone getting promoted and then self-destructing in the CE forum.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Yeah, good post. The newbies that post something and handle criticism well are generally the best of the bunch, as some can make a very good post but then fall to pieces and revert to name calling as soon as someone disagrees.

As for the general, we don't give out likes in there usually (it is a football forum, that's what counts), but it is good to see members posting about politics and more general topics because the last thing anyone wants is someone getting promoted and then self-destructing in the CE forum.
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Well, this could be where the actual problem lies with the forum in general. As far as the football forum is concerned, we are almost all supporters of Manchester United, give or take a few City, Liverpool and Chelsea fans. Some opposition fans, from the posts I have read have been quite good and give objective opinions even though it may go against the grain of other posters. Secondly, there may be an small element of Manchester United fans who are fans of certain players who will not hear a bad word said about them which can lead to certain people getting banned because of differences of opinion.

As for the general forum, it is good to post there I guess, but as far as current affair are concerned, if someone doesn't know anything about politics, then it is best to avoid it altogether because there is nothing worse than either a)getting involved in a row with someone who is subjective and will not budge from their political stance and what you bring to that discussion maybe limited or b)getting involved in a row with someone who has been involved in politics, either as students of Political Science or have great foundations and knowledge of Politics. In this case, only an opinion can be offered as long as it is objective. If you are a novice in politics and you want to try and make it look a though you are in the know, it is not going to end well. So, in short, if I was to advise the newbies, it would be simply this:

1. Plan what you are going to say.

2. Split your paragraphs into separate topics with the last sentence always leading to the next paragraph.

3. Format your posts to make them readable and that they make sense. A whole page of text with no punctuation, no spaces etc just doesn't make for a great post.

4. If you feel that you want to post in the general forum in the newbies, make sure that is of light nature, because coming up against someone who knows a great deal about the current affairs situation will more or less be right.

5. If you are wrong, admit it and respect will be earned from the other poster; however, if you are wrong and you don't admit to it, it will be clear that word will get around that you will be a troublemaker in the making and probably not worthy of going to the mains. @Mciahel Goodman
 
woodhouseparkred said:
Unfortunately, the system of likes instead of reputations do not work here. It is fallible to say the least. Let us just say that I got up here in 81 posts and within 7 days of joining up.
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People who put effort in to get promoted rarely fail. Honestly, the dual system works on a few levels. It weeds out the spam, etc. But it also allows us to gauge how well new members can adhere to the rules before sending them up to the mains. Appropriate formatting and respectful debate are really the only two criteria that we look for. Some posters will get promoted faster if they have a feel for the rules, but also show that they could be assets to the mains with insightful football posts.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
People who put effort in to get promoted rarely fail. Honestly, the dual system works on a few levels. It weeds out the spam, etc. But it also allows us to gauge how well new members can adhere to the rules before sending them up to the mains. Appropriate formatting and respectful debate are really the only two criteria that we look for. Some posters will get promoted faster if they have a feel for the rules, but also show that they could be assets to the mains with insightful football posts.
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But I am, unfortunately a returnee who knew the likes of Hectic, Moses, jveezy, wibble and others besides. I was banned about two years ago, long before the new system was put in place. I just decided to change my game and conform to the norm with regards to posting messages. Even now, I post sometimes to have a laugh, but nothing really heavy and I have stayed away from threads that have got me into trouble in the past.

Edit:

I also won the Werewolf game that was used a Star Wars theme.

Either way, I upped my game from last time simply because I like United, even though we are in a pickle at the moment.
 
woodhouseparkred said:
But I am, unfortunately a returnee who knew the likes of Hectic, Moses, jveezy, wibble and others besides. I was banned about two years ago, long before the new system was put in place. I just decided to change my game and conform to the norm with regards to posting messages. Even now, I post sometimes to have a laugh, but nothing really heavy and I have stayed away from threads that have got me into trouble in the past.

Edit:

I also won the Werewolf game that was used a Star Wars theme.

Either way, I upped my game from last time simply because I like United, even though we are in a pickle at the moment.
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Well done. You made all those posts to prove a point. I wish I had your life. You must feel so accomplished. I'm jealous of your life.
 
I wish we could access the Newbies if not post there. Not a wish to be demoted/banned btw :nervous: I'm sure there are plenty of entertaining threads?
 
woodhouseparkred said:
Unfortunately, the system of likes instead of reputations do not work here. It is fallible to say the least. Let us just say that I got up here in 81 posts and within 7 days of joining up.
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It's no reflection on how likes are dished out in the 'mains' for sure. It would be good to be able to access all 'liked' posts if only to read the highlights if you missed them in real time. Maybe that's a possibility @Damien ?
 
RedFish said:
I wish we could access the Newbies if not post there. Not a wish to be demoted/banned btw :nervous: I'm sure there are plenty of entertaining threads?
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My experience of the newbies forum was basically that it was the 'general' that people decry the death of in the mains.
 
skidmark said:
My experience of the newbies forum was basically that it was the 'general' that people decry the death of in the mains.
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Which is why it could be entertainng no? I do remember there being posters there with thousands of posts and thinking wow, surely they'd be promoted just for showing endurance lol. I always found it funny everytime they referred to the 'mains' or had topics like 'who's the most annoying poster in the mains?' Not sure why the newbies couldn't be accessible as read only...Ah well.
 
Niall said:
This is the crux of the matter, yes there are more poor quality contributions from Newbies but there are also lots of very good contributions too.

The new system is focused on encouraging new members to participate and better identify the good ones. The old system was far too harsh, tarring everybody as rubbish posters until they get 10 likes before letting them near the mains.

It's not surprising most people don't stick around, the drop off rate after registration has been huge. We have lost a lot of potentially great new members over the years because of it.

Yes more poorer quality posts in the mains are a side effect of the new system but the scouts and mods work really hard on policing this. You can support this by using the report feature to let them know about such posts.

A big change like this is always going to have growing pains, so please do keep airing your concerns here, I want this to work for everyone.
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Would being able to access the 'liked' posts be a nice way to see the type of post that that is regarded as high quality. Too often posts are missed just by a users browsing habits, mainly when they log in, how they select a thread etc..... I know we could just follow someone like @Invictus but not everyone has such a high number of likes in a relatively short time. Anyway, I think it would be a good thing for the 'liked' high quality posts to get maximum exposure. Whaddaya think?
 
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