Who'd you pick to start?
Weghorst for me.
Weghorst or Ronaldo?
- Thread starter tentan
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Who'd you pick to start?
Weghorst for me.
Even the Ronaldo of this season is a better goal threat than weghorst, but obviously him continuing wasn't really an option. But that infographic is pretty misleading, out of ronaldo's last 19 starts (was that premier league only, or all games?) How many did he have casemiro in midfield rather than mcfred? How many did he have martinez jnstead of Harry maguire? How many were played under ten hag instead of ralf rangnick? Whatever you might say about Ronaldo upsetting the balance of the attack, rashford looked like he was struggling with the basics of football last year, not that he was out of position in favour of Ronaldo or whatever, he couldn't beat a man, his first touch was awful etc.
Ronaldo of last year is miles ahead of weghorst, I'd wager he's still slightly better this year but not by enough to offset the personality clash that he was having with the squad this season.
Of course the obvious answer is we should have spent a bit more in January and not have had our two options be a 38 year old or a guy from the Turkish league
Ronaldo of last year is miles ahead of weghorst, I'd wager he's still slightly better this year but not by enough to offset the personality clash that he was having with the squad this season.
Of course the obvious answer is we should have spent a bit more in January and not have had our two options be a 38 year old or a guy from the Turkish league
Weghorst is basically useless.
Playing with him on the pitch is like playing with 10 men, so (38 year old) Ronaldo wins, for me.
Playing with him on the pitch is like playing with 10 men, so (38 year old) Ronaldo wins, for me.
Weghorst. He's less of a goal threat but works harder and is more of a team player. Scoring is a means to an end; winning. If a player never scores but makes the team more likely to win, then he's doing a good job.
Plus Weghorst won't try and sabotage the team because of his ego.
Plus Weghorst won't try and sabotage the team because of his ego.
Weghorst. He'd be a decent player if he could fecking score. With Ronaldo the problems, even just the footballing ones, were so much wider and he also couldn't fecking score.
Just to be clear we are making the comparison on this specific point in time. If so then Weghorst. Sure he can't score for shit but Ronaldo wasnt scoring either plus the massive wages, the shitty attitude and the toxicity. At least Weghorst run and press or something.
Neither - so hopefully next season we can have a proper #9 (Osimhen would be my preference)
One is toxic, the other is not.
One can still function and contribute without goals, the other cannot.
One was signed as a backup/fill in and 'do a job' while making a fraction of the other, while the other was the highest paid player in the league and he didn't merit it.
This isn't a hard question.
One can still function and contribute without goals, the other cannot.
One was signed as a backup/fill in and 'do a job' while making a fraction of the other, while the other was the highest paid player in the league and he didn't merit it.
This isn't a hard question.
It speaks volumes of how utterly disruptive and shit Ronaldo was for us that I'd go with Weghorst or no one rather than having Ronaldo stinking the place up again. Added bonus since he's gone is that we don't have to put up with his legion of braindead idolaters, even if a few acolytes remain on the caf.
At least Weghorst completely accepts his limitations as a player and he adjusts his on field play accordingly.
ironically this could be one of the most “braindead” posts to be made on this forum. As much as you’d like to rewrite history, Ronaldo was brilliant for us last season.
This season he clearly didn’t want to be here and declined but as a player he’s still far better than Weghorst who is a truer but makes Ighalo look like R9 in comparison.
Nah, we're much, much better off without him, plenty of evidence to show it at this point. I didn't even mention or specify last season so there's no rewriting of history, and you're trying to call it a braindead post. You can't even read properly! Bye, now.
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Weghorst is great for tactics or teams that don't require a goalscorer
He's great if you think that running about a lot is the main attribute a striker should have, I've heard mo farrah might be available on a free, he'd probably run about like feck, we should definitely give him a chance as the main striker for Manchester united
The evidence is staring y‘all in the face: the team does better with Weghorst in it. Both didn‘t score, but Weghorst presses and works for his teammates while Ronaldo plays for himself and offers the team nothing (and is a spoiled cnut).
Shite and toxic vs just shite.
I will take just shite.
I will take just shite.
both shite but I'd rather the one who has a positive impact on his team-mates and not drag everyone else down with his self-serving bullshit
but ultimately we need better, and everyone knows that including ETH I am sure
but ultimately we need better, and everyone knows that including ETH I am sure
Do we though? We lost three times with ronaldo in the team in the league, but two of them were before we signed casemiro. Certainly ronaldo wasn't good enough this year, but I'm really skeptical about this idea that weghorst has massively improved the team.
Our league record in games where weghorst has played a significant number of minutes is 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses. Its hardly someone that's improved the lot of his team
Weghorst all day long. Even last season when Ronaldo was scoring, he was doing so at the expense of the team because he was so selfish and lazy. And that didn’t even begin to touch on the toxicity he brought off the field. We were instantly a worse team from the moment he arrived.
Weghorst on the other hand is an extremely limited player, but he accepts it, is delighted to just be here. He works hard for the team, is tactically astute, a facilitator of other players, and his hold up/link up play is pretty good. He’s the polar opposite of Ronaldo. Ronaldo was always a brilliant individual player but not a good team one. Even during his first stint at United. But he was worth the sacrifice as he was so individually lethal. But as his ability diminished, his egocentricity only grew, until at some point between his early to mid thirties he became a handicap to teams. Even at Juve the Italian press would say that he was the ever diminishing solution to the problem he himself created. By the time he came back to United the scale of the problem he created in team functionality and mechanics was as high as it had ever been, and his ability to solve that problem with his goals was nowhere near enough to compensate. Perfectly illustrated by him scoring 25 goals in the season but the team returning its lowest goals total in a decade.
It still amazes me that some people, typically avid fans of a singular player, can’t grasp the importance of the team over the contribution or role of an individual.
Weghorst on the other hand is an extremely limited player, but he accepts it, is delighted to just be here. He works hard for the team, is tactically astute, a facilitator of other players, and his hold up/link up play is pretty good. He’s the polar opposite of Ronaldo. Ronaldo was always a brilliant individual player but not a good team one. Even during his first stint at United. But he was worth the sacrifice as he was so individually lethal. But as his ability diminished, his egocentricity only grew, until at some point between his early to mid thirties he became a handicap to teams. Even at Juve the Italian press would say that he was the ever diminishing solution to the problem he himself created. By the time he came back to United the scale of the problem he created in team functionality and mechanics was as high as it had ever been, and his ability to solve that problem with his goals was nowhere near enough to compensate. Perfectly illustrated by him scoring 25 goals in the season but the team returning its lowest goals total in a decade.
It still amazes me that some people, typically avid fans of a singular player, can’t grasp the importance of the team over the contribution or role of an individual.
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This
We had 5 wins in a row in the league before weghorst started playing, and after ronaldo left in case anyone thinks this is just about me defending ronaldo, since then we've had 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses including a 7-0 loss, in games he's played in (plus we beat Everton when he played 9 mins).
I really couldn't give a shit whether he's happy to be here and runs about a lot, that could apply to thousands of footballers around the world, he clearly does not make us a better team
I've even looked back through our games, against Leeds we were losing 2-0 at home, until we take weghorst off and we manage to draw 2-2 in the remaining 30 mins after he's subbed. I don't know where this myth has come from that he improves us, but he really doesn't, signing ighalo again in January would have been a better option than this guy
Ronaldo started 4 league matches. We lost 3 of the 4 matches he started? The sample size was too small because Ronaldo was genuinely cack whenever he did play.
The Horse vs CR37 is picking your poison, really. A guy who is blatantly not good enough for PL level and a once all timer who is no longer good enough for PL level
Well yeah, as I said above we actually won 5 games in a row, including away to City with neither Ronaldo or weghorst up front.
But somehow a myth has caught hold that weghorst, despite being a striker that offers no goal threat has imrpoved us because of his all round play, but he hasn't. We were losing against Barcelona, brought him off, and we won. We were losing against Leeds with 30 mins to go, brought him off and were level within 15 mins. We have a league record of 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses since he joined in games he started, which isn't great. But somehow people seem to have convinced themselves that because he's happy to be here and runs around a lot, in the manner a completion winner might, that he makes us a better team
Care to include cup games? We started scoring more with Weghorst in the team.
Of course we need a massive upgrade on him in the summer.
Some here are guilty of cherry picking to minimize Weghorst‘s contribution. I remember games where we went behind after he came off.
If you can‘t see the enormous difference between Ronaldo and Weghorst regarding what they do for the team, that is truly sad.
He absolutely does make the team play better, but his finishing has been bad.
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Weghorst, Fed up of watching entire team trying to set up a goal for Ronaldo, his lack of work rate and very poor link up play.
Weghorst isn't a goal threat but entire game doesn't revolve around him and also his link up play is better then Ronaldo even though it's not great.
Weghorst isn't a goal threat but entire game doesn't revolve around him and also his link up play is better then Ronaldo even though it's not great.
We had 11 goals in the 5 games before we started playing him in the league, then 9 in 5 after that. So not really.
In cup games we were losing against Barcelona, we subbed him off at half time, and we won 2-1. We did manage to get past real bets and Fulham, which I suppose is an outrageously good achievement even if we did need Fulham to go down to 9 men to beat them with weghorst in the team.
If beating a bunch of teams we should be beating in the cup is the mark of someone that improves us in his all round play then maybe he does. But realistically we've done worse in the league since signing him.
We certainly haven't done enough to justify this bizarre reputation he has on the caf of improving the team
Yes, and yes. Hence, Weghorst.
I would have Phil Jones up front instead of Ronaldo.
How on earth are we worse in the league since signing weghorst what the feck am I reading
The 5 games after Ronaldo left and before weghorst signed, we won all of them. Since then in 9 games that weghorst has started we have won 3, drawn 3 and lost 3. So he's clearly not improving things. In fact even before Ronaldo left we had 7 wins, 3 draws and 4 losses. So in total before weghorsr came we had 12 wins, 3 draws and 4 losses. We also won the Everton game that he didn't start. So that's 13 wins, 3 draws and 4 losses in games weghorst didn't start. And 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 losses in games he has started. So almost as many losses and draws in games he's started than games he hasn't, despite there being 11 more games that he hasnt
And clearly injuries, suspensions, fatigue don't really matter right?
Well they do, but two of our losses early in the season were before casemiro was signed, I'm assuming you don't want to write them off. We have a 65% win rate when weghorst doesn't start, and a 33% win rate when he does in the league. I mean fecking hell, you're arguing in one thread that Ronaldo leaving was the sole catalyst for everything getting better, ignoring transfers and ten hag actually settling in as manager, but you're looking for every excuse for weghorst.
I've said I don't think Ronaldo of this season was good enough, last year he was but not now, who the feck looks at such a drastic drop off on win rate and thinks weghorst has improved us?
And I'm looking at the broader picture and not acting dumb using numbers without any context. Earlier in the season we had fresher players, lesser games. We are playing 3 games a week since the restart. Common sense would suggest that the performances would drop off and even more when our major players are either injured or suspended for 7-8 games and we have no one to rotate.
And also I'm not defending Weghorst. I'm calling out the dumb statement that said we are doing worse with him in the league which ignored any kind of context involved.
We are doing worse, we've had two separate games where we were losing (barcelona and leeds) and we took him off and ended up scoring 2 goals and changing the result. We've also dropped him for the last two games and won both, so basically we won the 5 in a row before he came, then we won 3 out of 9, then we dropped him and won 2 out of 2. So did fatigue stop being an issue for the last two games?
Why are you willing to excuse weghorst, but when it comes to Ronaldo the fact that two of our losses came with new signings bedding in, casemiro not signed yet, and players still getting used to ten hag's tactics aren't valid excuses?
Does Common sense really dictate that we'd go from a 65% win rate to 33% just because of injuries, suspensions and fatigue, and this all happened exactly the same time that we started playing weghorst?
Yes and yes.
So why Is casemiro not being available because he wasn't signed not a valid excuse for Ronaldo, but casemiro not being available because he was suspended is a valid excuse for weghorst L
Yes
Insulting another member
Ah, OK you're a moron, fair enough