weastey..(vicente)

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:


Completely the opposite to what SAF told them to do. That's one of the reasons Ince was chucked out! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <hr></blockquote>

thats true! LOL

antohan · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:
He has a good mentality, and it seems he'll only leave when the time is right.<hr></blockquote>

Back in August he hinted he might not be around after XMAS. He said he expected to reach his development's peak at River by then and would have to move on to face new challenges and further his career. Again, he said this very down to earth not primadonna-style.

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


would u class him as a playmaker?

or a keane type engine?<hr></blockquote>

Dont know really, bit of both. He covers more ground then most playmakers, but isnt a battler like Keano. He can cross, split defences and shoot, and is a decent penalty taker (despite his miss recently) but tackling isnt his thing. If he was with a solid ball winner like Butt who could win the ball and give it to him then he would shine. He's recently been asked to play as the whole midfield basically for River, but with a better team he'd do better.

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
And you can all forget about D'allesandro, he's off to the Camp Nou.<hr></blockquote>

Havent heard that one before. Doubt it. They just got Riquelme, and they probably need to replace Luis Enrique soon.

osterdal · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


i think Italian teams are better suited to dominate both leagues, with the same style they use domestically..infact most european teams are...

Our problem is that we've become a European side, note that we qualified much more easily than any other English side in the CL..

TBH, i'd like us to play more conventional style at home......but if we do that, will it effect our european style? do players need to play in the same system in every match?<hr></blockquote>

I agree. I think we have been very good in Europe. Since the quarters v. Bayern 2001 when the formation change came. Sure we hade some bad results last season but those can be explained (Deportivo - individual errors, Leverkusen - injuries).

I don't know if it's possible to change formation from match to match. Many believe the rotation system cost us a few points last season.

If we can get together a good solid defence it would be much easier. And I think we're getting there - obviously forgetting the derby.

antohan · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:
Antohan, what do you think of San Lorezo's Leandro Romagnolli (sp?) ? he looks good, has potential imo.<hr></blockquote>

I pass, haven't seen him enough of him to class him beyond "potential".

Neil Thomson · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:


No. Veron likes to stay more or less in the middle of the park, while D'allesandro, maybe because of his age, being young and all, gets everywhere. He's quite fast, but doesnt need it as he can get past players with ease. His tackling is just as bad as Seba's unfortunately, but he can work on that.<hr></blockquote>
He doesn't sounds suited to the premiership, and the last thing we need is another player who roams around the pitch.

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


TBH, i'd like us to play a more conventional style at home......but if we do that, will it affect our european style? do players need to play in the same system in every match?<hr></blockquote>

umm.. maybe that's why we only went back to 4-4-2 after the CL matches were over in November last year.. we went on a great run with the traditional formation..

IMO SAF is gambling that we won't be very far off by the time the CL matches are over at the end of this month so he is continuing with 4-4-1-1 and is accepting the losses in the league.. he's angry because the players are not atleast matching his requirements - because we're pretty far off the top now considering the three losses to mediocre teams.

it's difficult to predict whether we will go back to 4-4-2 this season though.. SAF may continue with this 4-4-1-1 in order to keep practicing and get better at it to make sure we really win the CL this season..

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by antohan:


Back in August he hinted he might not be around after XMAS. He said he expected to reach his development's peak at River by then and would have to move on to face new challenges and further his career. Again, he said this very down to earth not primadonna-style.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, though thats different from a come-and-get-me plea. He has hardly said he wants Juve to sign him or Real to sign him, just that he is a realist and River will probably want to cash in on him anyway. I saw an interview with him a few months a go and he said he doesnt like to be called the new Maradona as he has too much respect for Diego and that he doesnt mind staying at River. He has big heart and seems to have passion for the supporters at River. If he does leave I'd hate for us not to sign him just because Veron is here and we have no room for him, as in a few years he will be pure class.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:


Dont know really, bit of both. He covers more ground then most playmakers, but isnt a battler like Keano. He can cross, split defences and shoot, and is a decent penalty taker (despite his miss recently) but tackling isnt his thing. If he was with a solid ball winner like Butt who could win the ball and give it to him then he would shine. He's recently been asked to play as the whole midfield basically for River, but with a better team he'd do better.<hr></blockquote>

thats the problem... i think he's like Riquelme isn't he?

well, i don't think he'd settle in the PL, its the worst place in the world for playmakers... like i touched up on before, PL teams like to defend high, which won't suit him.... strikers on the other hand love the PL.. just look at anelka and Owen, both thrive of running onto balls put behind, the high up defences!

WeasteDevil · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:


Havent heard that one before. Doubt it. They just got Riquelme, and they probably need to replace Luis Enrique soon.<hr></blockquote>

It's been doing the rounds here for ages, with rumours saying that a pre-contract agreement has already been signed.

They would have taken him this year apparently, but they have too many non-EU players, so they have to get rid first. There was talk that Riquelme would be loaned out for a year because of the same thing, but then Rivaldo left.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by osterdal:


I agree. I think we have been very good in Europe. Since the quarters v. Bayern 2001 when the formation change came. Sure we hade some bad results last season but those can be explained (Deportivo - individual errors, Leverkusen - injuries).

I.

<hr></blockquote>

u are right... we should have beaten depor, if it wasn't for the mistakes.... at that time they were top of the Spanish league...and beating Real with ease!

we look a good european outfit, a more solid team, than we've looked in the past.

i think we'll go far in the CL....

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Like I said Neil, he's only playing as a 'roamer' because River flogged half their team last summer. If he was told to play in a select position either on the wings or in the centre he could do that just as well imo. He'd benefit from having the likes of Keane around him. He's not a total playmaker, just has good vision and can pick a good pass. He's hardly one for fancy flicks etc. though he can certainly do them. He doesnt dive also, which is a plus. He plays the game the way it was meant to be played. As I've said probably not right for us now, but if it comes to an auction-type scenario we should be interested.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by RUnited:


umm.. maybe that's why we only went back to 4-4-2 after the CL matches were over in November last year.. we went on a great run with the traditional formation..

<hr></blockquote>

yes, most likely!

he wants another CL, which is plain to see.

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by antohan:


I pass, haven't seen him enough of him to class him beyond "potential".<hr></blockquote>

Same. I've only seen about three full games of him plus highlights, but he's very attacking and has a wicked shot. Not suited to the Prem though, he goes missing for periods of time during a game.

antohan · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
And you can all forget about D'allesandro, he's off to the Camp Nou.<hr></blockquote>

Doubt it. Barca stock is at an all-time low with Argies. He wouldn't join as long as Van Gaal is there (the way he has dealt with Riquelme, his reaction to their int'l call-up including benching Saviola...). The man is a joke.

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


yes, most likely!

he wants another CL, which is plain to see.<hr></blockquote>

hmm.. then we can mostly like predict that he may be planning to step down as soon as he grabbed another CL..

he missed his chance to retire on the top when he decided to stay on after '99.. i don't think he will stay on this time after winning the CL. If we win the CL that is.

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


thats the problem... i think he's like Riquelme isn't he?
<hr></blockquote>

Dunno, havent seen enough of Riquelme recently, last saw him in the summer for Barca in that friednly tourno, but from what Ive seen he's definately better than Riquelme.

Neil Thomson · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


u are right... we should have beaten depor, if it wasn't for the mistakes.... at that time they were top of the Spanish league...and beating Real with ease!

we look a good european outfit, a more solid team, than we've looked in the past.

i think we'll go far in the CL....<hr></blockquote>
We've not been tested in the CL this year though - those were rubbish sides we played. Fortunately we'll have Keane back hopefully for the second phase, and whatever new players Alex buys in January - but if they don't show the desire or understanding then you can forget reaching OT for the Final.

osterdal · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


i think we'll go far in the CL....<hr></blockquote>

I can't see us not reach the quarter finals. But in a playoff anything can happen. We have the potential to go all the way ... but could also lose in the QF. Playing the European style might well be a gamble that costs us the PL - but should we reach the final at OT (I can't see us lose the final at home - history, tradition etc.) it would be worth it IMO.

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by antohan:


Doubt it. Barca stock is at an all-time low with Argies. He wouldn't join as long as Van Gaal is there (the way he has dealt with Riquelme, his reaction to their int'l call-up including benching Saviola...). The man is a joke.<hr></blockquote>Thats a good point. D'Allesandro probably wouldnt join just because of VG's treatment of Riquelme. I'd never have Van Gaal in charge of my team, he falls out with too many players.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by RUnited:


hmm.. then we can mostly like predict that he may be planning to step down as soon as he grabbed another CL..

he missed his chance to retire on the top when he decided to stay on after '99.. i don't think he will stay on this time after winning the CL. If we win the CL that is.<hr></blockquote>

well Real aren't that hot this year.. Bayern are out.. I don't rate, juve or Milan.. so we've got a great chance. the only team, thats impressed me is Valencia.. i think they'll be there or there abouts.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:

We've not been tested in the CL this year though - those were rubbish sides we played. Fortunately we'll have Keane back hopefully for the second phase, and whatever new players Alex buys in January - but if they don't show the desire or understanding then you can forget reaching OT for the Final.<hr></blockquote>

rubbish sides or not.. we've beaten them.

and we proved last year against depor and the rest that we can play well in europe, infact last year we look more solid than we've ever done.

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


well Real aren't that hot this year.. Bayern are out.. I don't rate, juve or Milan.. so we've got a great chance. the only team, thats impressed me is Valencia.. i think they'll be there or there abouts.<hr></blockquote>

what about Milan? they're doing amazing this season.. plus their style is already suited to european game.. with a man like rivaldo you never know.. it could be the us vs them at OT (at any stage of the CL season) and will prove to be a tough game IMO.. maybe even the toughest..

antohan · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:

Yeah, though thats different from a come-and-get-me plea. <hr></blockquote>

My point exactly, he isn't getting all uneasy and wanting-out, just very aware about the steps he has to take. It also shows he does not believe he is the finished article as many others touted as "the new Maradona" would.

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:
Thats a good point. D'Allesandro probably wouldnt join just because of VG's treatment of Riquelme. I'd never have Van Gaal in charge of my team, he falls out with too many players.<hr></blockquote>

that's the thing with top managers.. they can't care too much about players.. look who've got for a manager.. i really don't want to start counting the number of players he has fallen out with publicly and SOLD.

but it hasn't hurt us yet.. not until stam and yorke anyway IMO.. if we recover then it will have been another battle he won against these big-mouth players..

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


well Real aren't that hot this year.. Bayern are out.. I don't rate, juve or Milan.. so we've got a great chance. the only team, thats impressed me is Valencia.. i think they'll be there or there abouts.<hr></blockquote>I think Milan will get to the semis at least. You're right about Valencia though. Aimar looks sparkling for them, just a shame he's paired up with that Donkey Carew. I still think Real will pick it up in the Cl though. Athens a side, they've looked good albeit against lesser sides, but like us, they can only beat whats put in front of them.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Milan are good....but i donl't think they're anything special.

Neil Thomson · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


rubbish sides or not.. we've beaten them.

and we proved last year against depor and the rest that we can play well in europe, infact last year we look more solid than we've ever done.<hr></blockquote>
Apart from the hungarians. Last season we had some nightmares in the first CL phase, particularly against Depor, but we avenged that with our best games of the season, only to be less than convincing against Bayer, and I still think that Real side would have beaten us, just as they beat Leverkusen - though you'd hope playing at Hampden Park would have fired us up.

Gazza · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by antohan:


My point exactly, he isn't getting all uneasy and wanting-out, just very aware about the steps he has to take. It also shows he does not believe he is the finished article as many others touted as "the new Maradona" would.<hr></blockquote>
In the interview he said labeling him as the new Maradone is disrespectful to the old man, which is a great attitude. This experience of carrying the River team will be good for him aslong as he doesnt get carried away and tries doing it for his new club. Do you agree with me when I say Cavenaghi looks like a decent player? Only 19 but has that edge all good finsihers have.

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:
Milan are good....but i donl't think they're anything special.<hr></blockquote>

the scary thing is they've got the thirst.. they've got very mean fans who will not be afraid to spit on the players' faces, including the manager's if they lose again so that would be a kick up their ass reguarly..

the players are also fired up.. rivaldo really needs to prove a point.. Pippo is on tip top form and once Shevy is back then they could prove a lethal partnership.. they looked strong both against smaller and bigger teams.. i think they're a team to watch..

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:

Apart from the hungarians. Last season we had some nightmares in the first CL phase, particularly against Depor,.<hr></blockquote>

like Osterdal pointed out, we would have beaten Depor last year, had it not been for silly errors...and we looked comfortable at the Riazor, until they scored two late goals.

we killed them in the QF tho'..in performance, without mistakes.

Real were lucky to beat Leverkusen in the final, Bayer played them off the park.

antohan · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:

He doesn't sounds suited to the premiership, and the last thing we need is another player who roams around the pitch.<hr></blockquote>

I probably wouldn't play him in a central midfield role in 4-4-2, may be on the wings. Now, if we are insisting on pulling back one of the forwards to link up and distribute the game (4-4-1-1) he is perfectly suited for it.

Neil, I don't think having players who roam around the pitch is bad, the issue is whether they CAN do it. This guy can roam, has the attributes to roam and whether you defend deep, high or under the posts he means trouble.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by RUnited:


the scary thing is they've got the thirst.. they've got very mean fans who will not be afraid to spit on the players' faces, including the manager's if they lose again so that would be a kick up their ass reguarly..

the players are also fired up.. rivaldo really needs to prove a point.. Pippo is on tip top form and once Shevy is back then they could prove a lethal partnership.. they looked strong both against smaller and bigger teams.. i think they're a team to watch..<hr></blockquote>

ahhhhh but they got beat by Juve over the weekend?!

and they're only third in the SerieA

Neil Thomson · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


like Osterdal pointed out, we would have beaten Depor last year, had it not been for silly errors...and we looked comfortable at the Riazor, until they scored two late goals.

we killed them in the QF tho'..in performance, without mistakes.

Real were lucky to beat Leverkusen in the final, Bayer played them off the park.<hr></blockquote>
Silly mistakes, lack of concentration. Sounds like the game against city.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:

Silly mistakes, lack of concentration. Sounds like the game against city.<hr></blockquote>

yes...but the difference was that we didn't have any penetration against siddy, so it was far worse...

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by giggzy:


ahhhhh but they got beat by Juve over the weekend?!

and they're only third in the SerieA <hr></blockquote>

didn't i tell you i also thought Juve were a force to be reckon this season also? it was simply the case of big teams facing each other - could have gone either way..

as per juve.. remember the goal trezeguet got against us a few years back? knocked us out completely.. afraid to have him do it again.

antohan · Nov 11, 2002

Originally posted by Gazza:

Do you agree with me when I say Cavenaghi looks like a decent player? Only 19 but has that edge all good finsihers have.<hr></blockquote>

I mentioned that in some other thread in the transfer forum. Alas, I'm shocked we are not there yet! He would probably be the only case in which I would expect immediate impact.

Adaptation is a major issue in midfield but if you sign someone to bang in the goals all they need to be able to do is just that and Cavenaghi has that edge, probably the best (realistic)potential partner for Ruud that has been mentioned.

giggzy · Nov 11, 2002

antohan:

is d'allesandro like Riquelme?

RUnited · Nov 11, 2002

whoa.. we got to 117 posts in this thread in about an hour.. kinell.. that's a lot for this little time.. it's not even gameday!

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