weastey..(vicente)

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>They're looking for a defensive midfielder aren't they? Obviously ZZ wants Vieira beside them, but I don't think he's going to get what he wants - and they'd be better off getting some decent defenders first.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Vieira isn't defensive!!


he's a box to box player...i'd say he's a complete midfielder, defensive mids are like Haman sp? and butt.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

joe cole... even the west ham fans are moaning about him... he's all style and no substance.</strong><hr></blockquote>

is he really really that bad? i thought he was supposed to be a key man in the england team.. thought he was all that.. whatever happened? i saw the goal he got against the arseholes.. it was superb! for a guy who hasn't scored in a year.. it looked like he's been scoring week in week out.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Some mod is going to move this, I can feel it!

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>but d'allesandro.. has anyone seen him for real? will he be another 'just a potential' like forlan? we need a quick fix IMO.</strong><hr></blockquote>This guy is the real deal. I've watched him frequently over the past year or so and it's clear he'll take Europe by storm when he leaves. River had a big clear-out recently and that's left D'allesandro more or less on his own trying to do everything for the team. he'd benefit being in a team where he doesnt have to do all the work. Recently he's looked tired and burnt-out, and it looks like River will win FA this year. Probably not right for us atm, as we need a striker first and foremost and up and coming midfielders from South America are probably not on top of SAF's list, but I'd hate to see him join Juve or Real as has been said before. He has the lot - I just wonder how long he'll want to stay in a River side which looks to be going nowhere.

 

[RUnited]

ok a new term you people must explain to me.

what's a box to box player? and i thought viera was supposed to be a complete defensive midfielder..?

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

Vieira isn't defensive!!


he's a box to box player...i'd say he's a complete midfielder, defensive mids are like Haman sp? and butt.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Like Keano, he's box to box, but boy can he be defensive too - like Keano. Both tackle, mark, intercept and boss the midfield. Keane less and less makes runs into the box, and scores very few now.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Some mod is going to move this, I can feel it! </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>ok a new term you people must explain to me.

what's a box to box player? and i thought viera was supposed to be a complete defensive midfielder..?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Roy Keane = box-to-box player. One who can break up attacks and contribute to their own teams attacks. Cover the most ground basically.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>This guy is the real deal. I've watched him frequently over the past year or so and it's clear he'll take Europe by storm when he leaves. River had a big clear-out recently and that's left D'allesandro more or less on his own trying to do everything for the team. he'd benefit being in a team where he doesnt have to do all the work. Recently he's looked tired and burnt-out, and it looks like River will win FA this year. Probably not right for us atm, as we need a striker first and foremost and up and coming midfielders from South America are probably not on top of SAF's list, but I'd hate to see him join Juve or Real as has been said before. He has the lot - I just wonder how long he'll want to stay in a River side which looks to be going nowhere.</strong><hr></blockquote>

if you say he's looking burntout then i think we should snap him up before he comes with a fatigued mind. it's very important that we get fresh players who can play right away.

i saw we snap him up and keep him for use later - just to prevent the damnned real or juve from taking him ahead of us.. i heard he would cost in the same range as forlan.. is this true?

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
Roy Keane = box-to-box player. One who can break up attacks and contribute to their own teams attacks. Cover the most ground basically.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They're good on the break, charging forward with the ball, and distribute the ball forwards well. Also, how many times have we seen crop up in our box, on the line for example, and clear the ball? And then he'll be found cutting the ball back near their goal-line for Scholes to score from.

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

Look what they've got:

Fernando Hierro - 1968 (34) Old and slow
Roberto Carlos - 1973 (29) Always up field
Iván Helguera - 1975 (27) Solid but really a midfielder
Míchel Salgado - 1975 (27) Too slow
Francisco Pavón - 1980 (22) Crap
Oscar Miñambres - 1981 (21) Never seen
Raúl Bravo - 1981 (21) Never seen
Rubén González - 1982 (20) Too young</strong><hr></blockquote>
Things are going to go bad for Real in the long run imo. Fornow they may be content with attacking for fun but soon they'll find they cant keep this buying one brilliant player per season going for too long. They will encounter big big defensive problems over the next couple of seasons unless they rectify this problem now.

Where have I heard all that before?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Like Keano, he's box to box, but boy can he be defensive too - like Keano. Both tackle, mark, intercept and boss the midfield. Keane less and less makes runs into the box, and scores very few now.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i think that's because of veron and scholes.. the midfield is clogged - also with becks moving in.. there's less need for keane to run around.. i think this plan will compliment keane's age.. he's probably not as fit as he used to be, also with the injuries.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Like Keano, he's box to box, but boy can he be defensive too - like Keano. Both tackle, mark, intercept and boss the midfield. Keane less and less makes runs into the box, and scores very few now.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes, but when someone, uses the term 'defensive', it implies, that they're talking about a holding player..


the reason why Keane and veron don't work together, is due to the fact that both players like to attack, albeit in their own way. butt and veron... work's better, in a 4-4-2, than a keane and veron, partnership does.

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

is he really really that bad? i thought he was supposed to be a key man in the england team.. thought he was all that.. whatever happened? i saw the goal he got against the arseholes.. it was superb! for a guy who hasn't scored in a year.. it looked like he's been scoring week in week out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nah. He's not even in the England squad recently - he was in the under-21's last time. Dont think he'll ever be an England regular.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

yes, but when someone, uses the term 'defensive', it implies, that talking a holding player..


the reason why Keane and veron don't work together, is due to the fact that both players like to attack, albeit in their own way. butt and veron... work's better, in a 4-4-2, than a keane and veron, partnership does.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Totally agree giggzy!

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

if you say he's looking burntout then i think we should snap him up before he comes with a fatigued mind. it's very important that we get fresh players who can play right away.

i saw we snap him up and keep him for use later - just to prevent the damnned real or juve from taking him ahead of us.. i heard he would cost in the same range as forlan.. is this true?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's a different time. Had we gone for him at the same time as Forlan he would have cost double, but the market has changed, and these days River are quick to sell. We could get him about about 10m I'd think.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>

Nah. He's not even in the England squad recently - he was in the under-21's last time. Dont think he'll ever be an England regular.</strong><hr></blockquote>

whoa.. talk about turning from stardom to shit! i think he really could not stand the expectations surrounding him like you said...

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
Things are going to go bad for Real in the long run imo. Fornow they may be content with attacking for fun but soon they'll find they cant keep this buying one brilliant player per season going for too long. They will encounter big big defensive problems over the next couple of seasons unless they rectify this problem now.

Where have I heard all that before?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think that they are up shit creak without a paddle. Zidane is getting on, so is Figo (how much money is that! ), Ronaldo will end up injured for a long time again, Makalele looks like he wants out, McManaman won't go even though they want him to, and they need to seriously rebuild their defence.

Where the feck is the money going to come from?

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>Recently he's looked tired and burnt-out, and it looks like River will win FA this year. Probably not right for us atm, as we need a striker first and foremost and up and coming midfielders from South America are probably not on top of SAF's list</strong><hr></blockquote>

River are falling apart and unlikely to win the championship. This has certainly taken its' toll on him. I have been very impressed by the way he has responded to the situation. Being so young, he has dealt with his status as one of the referentials of the team and has been the one "facing the music" (i.e. facing the press and fans) always looking very down to earth.

He'll be a star. I actually wonder whether we wouldn't be better off waiting for someone like him to adapt rather than waiting for Veron to adapt only to find that he turns 30 and close to the end of his career.

 

[osterdal]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>


Where the feck is the money going to come from?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't they have a training complex to sell?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

I think that they are up shit creak without a paddle. Zidane is getting on, so is Figo (how much money is that! ), Ronaldo will end up injured for a long time again, Makalele looks like he wants out, McManaman won't go even though they want him too, and they need to seriously rebuild their defence.

Where the feck is the money going to come from?</strong><hr></blockquote>


i think they have a great great youth development system.. and great scouts.. there are a lot of cheaper players in that team that are not used regularly..

but you are right, their defence will turn into a big big problem in 1-2 years time. But if i know Real enough i think their big buy next year will be someone like Nesta or maybe they'll make a lump sum bid for our Blanc to go partner Hierro

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i think that's because of veron and scholes.. the midfield is clogged - also with becks moving in.. there's less need for keane to run around.. i think this plan will compliment keane's age.. he's probably not as fit as he used to be, also with the injuries.</strong><hr></blockquote>

its congested, mainly because we've got three CMs and two wingers who play more in the centre, rather than stay out wide.


i think this works in the CL...but its not suited to the English game..mainly due to the fact that, english teams, like to defend higher up, which leaves very little space in the centre... in europe, teams defend deeper...thus giving more space to the central midfielders....

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

River are falling apart and unlikely to win the championship. This is certainly taken its' toll on him. I have been very impressed by the way he has responded to the situation. Being so young, he has dealt with his status as one of the referentials of the team and has been the one "facing the music" (i.e. facing the press and fans) always looking very down to earth.

He'll be a star. I actually wonder whether we wouldn't be better off waiting for someone like him to adapt rather than waiting for Veron to adapt only to find that he turns 30 and close to the end of his career.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Couldnt agree more. Last year he was promising, with quite a few talents in Rivers attack. Since then most have been sold and he's had to carry the burden himself. He missed a penalty the other week and yesterdat River lost again to Lanus, but D'allesandro did more running then usual. I think we should jump in and save him if the price is right, but not before sorting out the essentials. He has an extremely level head and does interviews even when his team has lost. He has a good mentality, and it seems he'll only leave when the time is right.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>maybe they'll make a lump sum bid for our Blanc to go partner Hierro </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

its congested, mainly because we've got three CMs and two wingers who play more in the centre, rather than stay out wide.


i think this works in the CL...but its not suited to the English game..mainly due to the fact that, english teams, like to defend higher up, which leaves very little space in the centre... in europe, teams defend deeper...thus giving more space to the central midfielders....</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's a very good analysis. good post giggzy.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
It's a different time. Had we gone for him at the same time as Forlan he would have cost double, but the market has changed, and these days River are quick to sell. We could get him about about 10m I'd think.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure he was ever double what Forlan cost. He would have been ~9m at that time, might be up to 12m now (MUMU incl.).

 

[osterdal]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


i think this works in the CL...but its not suited to the English game..mainly due to the fact that, english teams, like to defend higher up, which leaves very little space in the centre... in europe, teams defend deeper...thus giving more space to the central midfielders....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then comes the question if you really can dominate both in the league and in Europe?

No team has done that since Juve circa 1995-98.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>ok a new term you people must explain to me.

what's a box to box player? and i thought viera was supposed to be a complete defensive midfielder..?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bryan Robsons the best box to box player i've seen...


he had the lot, and scored his fair share of goals....

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by osterdal:
<strong>

Don't they have a training complex to sell? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Another one?

Nah, it it'll be the Santiago Bernabéu, with Madrid moving to the new Olympic Stadium for their 2012 bid, which will never hold an Olympic Games.

Great Excuse to put a bit of money into Real's pockets.! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

its congested, mainly because we've got three CMs and two wingers who play more in the centre, rather than stay out wide.


i think this works in the CL...but its not suited to the English game..mainly due to the fact that, english teams, like to defend higher up, which leaves very little space in the centre... in europe, teams defend deeper...thus giving more space to the central midfielders....</strong><hr></blockquote>
As he gets older, he'll be more suited to a defensive holding role imo. His body's falling apart anyway, I think he's going to be playing for us less and less - we need to think about his successor soon - remember we had Robson, Ince and Keane all at the same time?

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

I'm not sure he was ever double what Forlan cost. He would have been ~9m at that time, might be up to 12m now (MUMU incl.).</strong><hr></blockquote>

He may not have been worth it but I could have seen a massive bidding war between ourselves, Real and Juve. Real would probably only get one of Joaquin or D'allesandro, so we should monitor that situation closely. Antohan, what do you think of San Lorezo's Leandro Romagnolli (sp?) ? he looks good, has potential imo.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
Couldnt agree more. Last year he was promising, with quite a few talents in Rivers attack. Since then most have been sold and he's had to carry the burden himself. He missed a penalty the other week and yesterdat River lost again to Lanus, but D'allesandro did more running then usual. I think we should jump in and save him if the price is right, but not before sorting out the essentials. He has an extremely level head and does interviews even when his team has lost. He has a good mentality, and it seems he'll only leave when the time is right.</strong><hr></blockquote>

how many positions can he play? i wouldn't want to see giggs eclipsed completely by him.. i think we will still have atleast 2-3 good years with giggs.. though d'allesandro will have been sold by then..

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

how many positions can he play? i wouldn't want to see giggs eclipsed completely by him.. i think we will still have atleast 2-3 good years with giggs.. though d'allesandro will have been sold by then..</strong><hr></blockquote>
D'allesandro is an all-rounder. He starts of in CM but dont be suprised to see him move all voer the pitch, to the wings. He can drag his markers across the field and open up space for others.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by osterdal:
<strong>

Then comes the question if you really can dominate both in the league and in Europe?

No team has done that since Juve circa 1995-98.</strong><hr></blockquote>


i think Italian teams are better suited to dominate both leagues, with the same style they use domestically..infact most european teams are...


Our problem is that we've become a European side, note that we qualified much more easily than any other English side in the CL..


TBH, i'd like us to play a more conventional style at home......but if we do that, will it affect our european style? do players need to play in the same system in every match?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
D'allesandro is an all-rounder. He starts of in CM but dont be suprised to see him move all voer the pitch, to the wings. He can drag his markers across the field and open up space for others.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i guess single-handedly keeping river alive is doing him a lot of good.. he's perfect IMO.. we need somebody who knows how to do the lot.. one more thing.. how fast is this guy? does he play the same game veron does?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
As he gets older, he'll be more suited to a defensive holding role imo. His body's falling apart anyway, I think he's going to be playing for us less and less - we need to think about his successor soon - remember we had Robson, Ince and Keane all at the same time?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Robson rarely played..

and keane was the 'holding player' in that team, Ince was box to box.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>and keane was the 'holding player' in that team, Ince was box to box.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Completely the opposite to what SAF told them to do. That's one of the reasons Ince was chucked out! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[WeasteDevil]

And you can all forget about D'allesandro, he's off to the Camp Nou.

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i guess single-handedly keeping river alive is doing him a lot of good.. he's perfect IMO.. we need somebody who knows how to do the lot.. one more thing.. how fast is this guy? does he play the same game veron does?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No. Veron likes to stay more or less in the middle of the park, while D'allesandro, maybe because of his age, being young and all, gets everywhere. He's quite fast, but doesnt need it as he can get past players with ease. His tackling is just as bad as Seba's unfortunately, but he can work on that.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>
D'allesandro is an all-rounder. He starts of in CM but dont be suprised to see him move all voer the pitch, to the wings. He can drag his markers across the field and open up space for others.</strong><hr></blockquote>


would u class him as a playmaker?

or a keane type engine?