We will never win the league with Paul Pogba in the team

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edgar allan said:
That's one huge understatement there. Let's be honest, he nearly downed tools.

The whole team have to take collective responsibility but you look to your supposed world class player to be more consistent over a whole season. He had 6 brilliant weeks in the new year and then form and effort drop off again.
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He didn't downed tools. he was our top scorer until late October. PP and Martial kept mourinho on the job until the November break then it went south after the virus episode which was clearly planted by mourinho himself. Our collective underperformance put his early season performance under the radar. We could've been even lower in the table.
 
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edgar allan said:
That's one huge understatement there. Let's be honest, he nearly downed tools.

The whole team have to take collective responsibility but you look to your supposed world class player to be more consistent over a whole season. He had 6 brilliant weeks in the new year and then form and effort drop off again.
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So your argument is a couple of performances after a month long injury and a deep in form in March? Basically something that happens to all players, world class players included, I'm pretty sure that some of you don't really follow football.
 
JPRouve said:
So your argument is a couple of performances after a month long injury and a deep in form in March? Basically something that happens to all players, world class players included, I'm pretty sure that some of you don't really follow football.
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Did you go to many games this season, it wasn't a couple of games!
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
So does Jose, DDG, Young, Matic, Fred, Lingard, Sanchez, Mata, and Lukaku.

All have let the team down far far more than Pogba who has put up excellent numbers. Has he been without fault this season? No. He needs to be more consistent.

But he is surrounded by mediocrity. It is pretty evident.
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For a good part of the season he didn't stand out from the mediocrity, that is in part why we are where we are. I do expect more from Pogba than McTominey tbf.
 
If people stopped expecting Pogba to perform miracles and started demanding we ship out the utter dross that surrounds him we'd be much better off. You can look at the statistical breakdown of his performances which are a more useful tool than emotional fans with an agenda and see how well he's been playing.

He's one of our only players a team like Madrid would even consider looking at which is enough to know it's essential we keep him.
 
doriandun said:
Frances full backs are not outstanding, Pavard is on par with Luke Shaw, their left back is slightly better than Young.

In the midfiled they have Kante, who is undoubtably the best in the world in his position, but Herrera is no slouch and offers similar qualities, maybe a peg lower, Matuidi, is their Martial, but with better off the ball movement and work ethic, Giroud is their Lukaku, and then you have M'Bappe, who is our Rashford, and not forgetting Griezmann who would equate to Linguard, or Sanchez if he can get his act togehter.

Where France without doubt are true class is central defence in Umtiti and Varane.

The problem is with his attitude, and it's why the likes of Rashford and Martial are also struggling.

What Ole has effectively done is given Pogba, carte blanche, to do as he pleases at the expense of the team, hey your a midfielder, but you do not have to press,or be positionally savvy, when you loose the ball ,just throw a tantrum, and get back in your own time, oh and when i play you as an attacking midfielder,the notion of you being part of the 1st line of defennce is not applicable to you.

Emery at Arsenal had a similar problem with Ozil and what did he do, that's right drop him to the bench, for the greater good of the team.With Ole constantly reiterating his intention to build a team around Pogba, just sends out the wrong message to his fellow professionals, i have never heard Pep or Klopp say they need to build a team around Salah or De Bruyne.

All it does is give Pogba an excuse to say well you did not build a team to my satisfaction, so why should i perform to a higher standard.

Without doubt he is a talent, but what people seem to conflate, is he was not the sole reason why Juve won 4 titles when he was there, or was even the deciding factor, as with the world cup, where he had 4 good games, not outstanding, and 4 below par games, he just needs to work 30% harder and maintain that form for a good portion of the season, Luke Shaw is a fine example.
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I don't think Pogba should use it as an excuse for his own failings - but the fact is France has better player around him, and even if you don't believe that they are at least a better balanced unit.

United and Pogba would be doing a lot better if we had Mbappe, Kante and Matuidi rather than Rashford, Hererra and Martial. I also think that Griezmann has proven himself to be a top class player and superior to the likes of Lingard and Sanchez.

Pogba has to sort his head out but the fact he plays much better for France isn't because he doesn't care about United, it's just we're not that good of a team
 
What is the point of this thread? It's stupid.

All you people who are bashing Pogba are fools.

You could put any individual top player in this team and we wouldn't win anything of note. That's obvious. Football is a team game. Our team is terrible honestly.

The so-called build-up is a joke. The movement is non-existant. We can't retain the ball properly, we start hoofing at the first sign of pressure. We don't know how to press properly, we give up chances for fun. Until this season, we were relying on being bailed out by De Gea's heroics every week. We had a 3 game purple patch at the start of Ole's reign where we played confident football before reverting back to type.

These are all the negative traits you don't want your team to have and we have them all. But it's all Pogba's fault. I mean come on...

How can this team be taken seriously when the club doesn't even take it seriously?

Until we define ourselves a clear recruitment strategy and stop the scatter gun nonsense.

Until we stop converting past it wingers to full-back, quickly replace the deadwood instead of handing improved contracts out and actually start trying to compete properly, then we aren't winning the league regardless of who's in our team.
 
Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:
I don't think Pogba should use it as an excuse for his own failings - but the fact is France has better player around him, and even if you don't believe that they are at least a better balanced unit.

United and Pogba would be doing a lot better if we had Mbappe, Kante and Matuidi rather than Rashford, Hererra and Martial. I also think that Griezmann has proven himself to be a top class player and superior to the likes of Lingard and Sanchez.

Pogba has to sort his head out but the fact he plays much better for France isn't because he doesn't care about United, it's just we're not that good of a team
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This is true

There's also no doubt Griezmann is multiple levels above those two
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
So does Jose, DDG, Young, Matic, Fred, Lingard, Sanchez, Mata, and Lukaku.

All have let the team down far far more than Pogba who has put up excellent numbers. Has he been without fault this season? No. He needs to be more consistent.

But he is surrounded by mediocrity. It is pretty evident.
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Juan Mata has never let Manchester United down. Irrespective of form, or whether he's not quick enough etc, I have never seen a game where he hasn't shown effort. It's just not in his make up. And he's done a pretty good job off the field too.

Whatever his future, he has shown commitment to United, never complained about not playing, or about playing in an unfavoured position, and he deserves respect.
 
goin4glory said:
If people stopped expecting Pogba to perform miracles and started demanding we ship out the utter dross that surrounds him we'd be much better off. You can look at the statistical breakdown of his performances which are a more useful tool than emotional fans with an agenda and see how well he's been playing.

He's one of our only players a team like Madrid would even consider looking at which is enough to know it's essential we keep him.
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This sort of stuff is getting boring. If Pogba was the best player in our team every week and we were still not winning games, these type of excuses might make sense, but he isn't. When he plays poorly he is invariably one of the worst players in the team.

These defensive arguments about individual players annoy me. It's a double edged sword. You want to say it's the team's fault because a certain player doesn't play well, but at the same time exclude him from being a part of the team you are criticising.

The only player who has shown with any consistency that they are being held back by the quality of the rest of the is De Gea.
 
noodlehair said:
This sort of stuff is getting boring. If Pogba was the best player in our team every week and we were still not winning games, these type of excuses might make sense, but he isn't. When he plays poorly he is invariably one of the worst players in the team.

These defensive arguments about individual players annoy me. It's a double edged sword. You want to say it's the team's fault because a certain player doesn't play well, but at the same time exclude him from being a part of the team you are criticising.

The only player who has shown with any consistency that they are being held back by the quality of the rest of the is De Gea.
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Because DDG plays in a position which doesn't rely on others being competent for him to have a great game. How many times has our defending been dire and DDG been MOTM? It's a lot easier for a midfielder to rack up impressive stats when they're passing to Salah/Aguero/Neymar/Suarez than Lingard/Lukaku.

A successful midfield relies on having harmonious relationships and players who compliment each other. It's why Gerrard/Lampard was a complete failure while both thrived with Alonso/Ballack/Makelele/Mascherano team mates.

Pogba isn't above criticism for individual performances but it should be fairly obvious he's on another level everyone else in our team barring DDG.

Fact is Pogba is putting up equal if not better numbers now than he did at Juve, the difference was at Juve if he had a bad game the team had other players capable of stepping up. At United when Pogba has a poor game we look like a championship side because guys like Lingard/Young/Jones/Smalling/McTominay/Pereira are awful and none of Mata/Herrera/Sanchez/Lukaku get a game for an elite european team.

Football fans are incredibly results orientated. Pogba can have a very good game but when we lose get zero credit or even criticised.
 
goin4glory said:
Because DDG plays in a position which doesn't rely on others being competent for him to have a great game. How many times has our defending been dire and DDG been MOTM? It's a lot easier for a midfielder to rack up impressive stats when they're passing to Salah/Aguero/Neymar/Suarez than Lingard/Lukaku.

A successful midfield relies on having harmonious relationships and players who compliment each other. It's why Gerrard/Lampard was a complete failure while both thrived with Alonso/Ballack/Makelele/Mascherano team mates.

Pogba isn't above criticism for individual performances but it should be fairly obvious he's on another level everyone else in our team barring DDG.

Fact is Pogba is putting up equal if not better numbers now than he did at Juve, the difference was at Juve if he had a bad game the team had other players capable of stepping up. At United when Pogba has a poor game we look like a championship side because guys like Lingard/Young/Jones/Smalling/McTominay/Pereira are awful and none of Mata/Herrera/Sanchez/Lukaku get a game for an elite european team.

Football fans are incredibly results orientated. Pogba can have a very good game but when we lose get zero credit or even criticised.
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Thank god theres a few sane people left on this forum. I swear they expect pogba to have world class games all by himself surrounded by dross.

Put messi In this team and he would struggle for consistency too.
 
Come on...its not his talent thats disputed but his lack of effort. No one expects him to win a game on his own but there are too many times when he looks like he cant be bothered. He gets credit when its due, and had some awesome games.
 
Nonsense to say you could never win the league with Pogba in the team but it is valid to say from what we have seen of him so far it is very unlikely you can win the league if he is the main player and one of those you build the team around , he is just not good or nearly consistent enough for that and he is shows very little leadership qualities. He could be a very valuable support player but you need others to take on the leadership roles.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Thank god theres a few sane people left on this forum. I swear they expect pogba to have world class games all by himself surrounded by dross.

Put messi In this team and he would struggle for consistency too.
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But he's shown that when he can be bothered he's a very good player. Unfortunately, that very rarely seems to happen and now he's become the invisible man.

Thankfully there are enough sane posters who can acknowledge that Pogba is not all he's cracked up to be.
 
goin4glory said:
If people stopped expecting Pogba to perform miracles and started demanding we ship out the utter dross that surrounds him we'd be much better off. You can look at the statistical breakdown of his performances which are a more useful tool than emotional fans with an agenda and see how well he's been playing.

He's one of our only players a team like Madrid would even consider looking at which is enough to know it's essential we keep him.
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There is a lot of truth in this but for me personally I don’t expect sparks from him every game. However when he chooses not to perform i hate the fact that he is a liability to the team. What I mean by this is the giving the ball away in terrible areas, taking pop shots from idiotic positions on the pitch.....you get why I mean. When players like luka modric aren’t performing they still do the basics right. When pogba isn’t performing he tries to force the issue which never comes off for him. If he can learn to control himself and not lose himself in games he wouldn’t get half the stick he gets. He can also learn to keep his mouth shut and not flirt with Madrid every chance he gets.
 
purgethefallen said:
But he's shown that when he can be bothered he's a very good player. Unfortunately, that very rarely seems to happen and now he's become the invisible man.

Thankfully there are enough sane posters who can acknowledge that Pogba is not all he's cracked up to be.
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Absolutely rubbish. He still made the most chances in the match against Wolves. Not our fault they can't finish it off.
 
Sorry, must disagree with title of this thread. Utter nonsense.

Playground footballer is a silly comment.
 
Andersonson said:
We can win the prem with Pogba in our team, but we cant win the league with him being the main man.
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Who is the main man at city? Some will say sterling, de Bruyne, Silva, Ederson, Fernandinho, Bernardo silva, aguero. That’s how to win the league. By having many main men . One can have a bad game and the rest will still step up. But United we expect Pogba to create the changes everytime and have a great game all the time while surrounded by dross. He can’t win us the league alone. That’s what we should be saying. We need more quality. This is so apparent. And people just keep on hating on the team’s best player whenever the whole team has a bad day. This is exactly what happens with messi when he plays for Argentina.

What we need to do is support him and pray to God we have a good transfer window and bring in more quality. We won’t win the league with only one or two main men. We need more.
 
Slik said:
Who is the main man at city? Some will say sterling, de Bruyne, Silva, Ederson, Fernandinho, Bernardo silva, aguero. That’s how to win the league. By having many main men . One can have a bad game and the rest will still step up. But United we expect Pogba to create the changes everytime and have a great game all the time while surrounded by dross. He can’t win us the league alone. That’s what we should be saying. We need more quality. This is so apparent. And people just keep on hating on the team’s best player whenever the whole team has a bad day. This is exactly what happens with messi when he plays for Argentina.

What we need to do is support him and pray to God we have a good transfer window and bring in more quality. We won’t win the league with only one or two main men. We need more.
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Under Pep Guardiola, there really isn't any main men at Manchester City. For him, every single player is important to the style of football that he wants them to play. We have seen the likes of Raheem Sterling, Kevin DeBruyne and Fernandinho change the way they used to play, to a game that Pep wants them to play. Sterling can be selfish at times, but if you think about it, the way Sterling plays now, thanks to a Pep Guardiola is totally different to the way he played whilst he was at Liverpool. Same with Kevin DeBruyne; the player who couldn't really hack it at Chelsea but under Pep Guardiola (injury aside), his game has come on leaps and bounds.

As for wanting Pogba to create the chances, of course we expect him to. Matic has received massive criticism over the last couple of years and rightly so, however, he would be the last player we could count on being creative. There are other options like Fred (who I feel hasn't had a real run in the side) who, in spite of his slip against Wolves the other day, did really well in that match. Whether he is creative enough, that remains to be seen, but again, that can only be decided by Ole as to whether he plays or not. Players like Rashford and Lukaku count on Pogba to supply the ball from midfield, and instead of keeping it relatively simple, he will hit a long pass (it is very nice to watch and we will be in awe, but how often does it really come off) to Lukaku who cannot control it or the pass maybe too long for Rashford (no matter how quick he is, he will never be able to chase the ball and control it in such a short space of time), thus surrendering the ball to the opposition. So, you have to ask yourself, do you prefer the "long 50-yard trajectories", so the supporters can go "wow, did you see that pass", or do you want a player who is capable of recycling the ball, whether under pressure or not?

This was one of my main arguments when someone said that Pogba had a higher top-level than Xavi Hernandez. There was a player who kept the game simple, no dwelling on the ball and always observing; something I believe they call "Spatial awareness." This was something that not only helped Xavi, but also the likes of Iniesta and Messi. It is no coincidence that a large majority of the Manchester City players (whom didn't go to La Masia) are capable of dominating games and having enormous amounts of possession; their passing and movements, coupled with their spatial awareness is second to none in the Premier league at this time.

As for your last statement about being the "best player in the team." That is a rather subjective point of view, and as a supporter of Manchester United, I will have to say that DeGea, in spite of his recent form, has been the most consistent performer for this club ever since Sir Alex brought him in. Why did I say that your point of view was subjective? Simply because, I am certain that supporters from other teams would single out DeGea as the only player who has saved our club from hammerings over the last few seasons.
 
Paul Pogba is quality. He won the World Cup, the Serie As, the coppa Italia, the Europa.

He has the physique of a Champion. Able to shoot, head and pass well. His vision is also top notch.

Pogba is the best midfielder in the world right now and it's not debatable.

We should not sell your best player away.
 
I would say Pogba isn't our main problem right now. And we got more than one main problem. Sort out the inferior players with good transfers first. I'm quite sure if the other 2 midfielders are giving world class performance, Pogba would strive to rise above them.
 
Jib said:
Even Messi couldn't win the league with this squad.
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Total exaggeration, teams would be so terrified of us with Messi playing on the right, we'd barely have to defend! they'd just sit back and soak up pressure before inevitably breaking open! We're already a very good counter attacking team, opponents would think twice before having a go at us also, imagine Rashford, Martial and Messi are countering you! Dear lord :lol:. Someone like him would change our situation drastically!
 
TRUERED89 said:
Total exaggeration, teams would be so terrified of us with Messi playing on the right, we'd barely have to defend! they'd just sit back and soak up pressure before inevitably breaking open! We're already a very good counter attacking team, opponents would think twice before having a go at us also, imagine Rashford, Martial and Messi are countering you! dear lord :lol:. Someone like him would change our situation drastically!
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No one in the midfield to make the transition.

Argentina had prime Messi, Aguero and Di Maria and they won nothing.
 
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Jib said:
Nobody in the midfield to make the transition.

Argentina had prime Messi, Aguero and Di Maria and they won nothing.
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Imagine Pogba, Martial, Rashford & Messi as our front 4. You can't use Argentina as an example for everything, plus he got to 3 finals (2 copa, 1 WC), not his fault Higuaín cant hit a barn door from 2 yards out! Messi would be a game changer no doubt, not like it will ever happen so this debate will be on going!
 
TRUERED89 said:
Imagine Pogba, Martial, Rashford & Messi as our front 4. You can't use Argentina as an example for everything, plus he got to 3 finals, not his fault Higuaín cant hit a barn door from 2 yards out! Messi would be a game changer no doubt, not like it will ever happen so this debate will be on going!
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I'm talking about a situation with Messi instead of Pogba.

Messi is obviously better than Pogba but I don't think that even him could win us the league with this squad.
 
Jib said:
I'm talking about a situation with Messi instead of Pogba.

Messi is obviously better than Pogba but I don't think that even him could win us the league with this squad.
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Okay fair enough, but add Messi to the team exactly how it is now with Pogba, I think the PL would shit themselves, we'd just be outscoring everyone even if we couldn't defend for shit! which currently we cant, but honestly imagine Messi had those chances against Wolves last week!? it would of been good night in the first 10 mins :lol:
 
We can win the league with Pogba in the team, I don't think we can do it with Pogba as our main player. Everyone knows he is a talented player and on his day he is unplayable. Unfortunately these days are rare. He always has a good month or so and then turns into Bebe.
 
Zorica said:
Paul Pogba is quality. He won the World Cup, the Serie As, the coppa Italia, the Europa.

He has the physique of a Champion. Able to shoot, head and pass well. His vision is also top notch.

Pogba is the best midfielder in the world right now and it's not debatable.

We should not sell your best player away.
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Can I have some of what you're on? :lol:

Pogba is far from being anywhere near the best midfielder in the world, far from it. For the last month or two he's been mediocre at best, nowhere near as good as McTom and Fred against Barca, and invisible in the last few league and cup games. If anyone wants him, get rid and rebuild the midfield.
 
House Mkhitaryan said:
Pogba is our best outfield player by far. We'd be mad to let him leave.
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Talent wise, yes.

Attitudinally, the effect he has on the team and being able to rely on him when we need him? Absolutely fecking not.

With the money we could get for him we could buy players to make a proper team, not relying on a primadonna showpony to be arsed.
 
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