This place has become a joke after losses. Post-fergie years have ruined a lot of our fanbase So much fecking whining. Just sell all the players, sack Jose etc. We were horrendous yesterday but you'd think we were 10th in the league. I would love if we could introduce a 3 hour cool down period after losses, it's becoming pathetic. When we win the next two we'll all laugh about this but you can bet the next time this football team dares drop a point the meltdown will commence again
We will never win the league with Paul Pogba in the team
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What does that even mean?
If you did a Football Manager assessment of the attributes of Pogba and the other top players in the world and added all the numbers together, Pogba would have a fair chance at coming out on top. The problem is that being a great all-round player doesn't make him the best defensive midfielder, or the best box to box midfielder, or the best #10 etc.
Someone decent? When has he been tried in a 3 in big games?
I'm sorry, I make no apologies for Pogba. Can he do better? Yes.
Can we sort out tactics better in big games. most definitely.
Ronaldo, as Rio and others in THAT team have commented, was that talented they let him get on with the attacking side of the game which allowed him to
"Bang in 50 goals" - It didn't just miraculously occur. The team was catered to enhancing his play.
Pogba can and does defend and we must be making the best of use of him and in those big games it is indeed as the tip of a midfield 3.
In terms of work, Pogba was working hard.
His brain however, wasn't working well and that's why he was rightly hooked.
He refused to follow instructions.
Jose IMO felt he couldn't leave Lingard AND Sanchez AND Martial out. Crucially Jose's insistence on abandoning a solid 3 in the middle to essentially incorporate a Lukaku that seems undroppable will ultimately be a key reason for our failure in big games and impacts on Pogba who is asked to sit in a 2.
You talk about Spurs here, Pogba is better thjan Dele will ever be and Dele ias a immature as they come, if Pogba was free like Dele is in that Spurs system we'd see how good he is, instead though we are playing with a slow DM and no box to box cover in a 2 man midfield way too often, and then Pogba gets hung out to dry, he's about the last player after De Gea I'd sell from this lot.
Well that's Jose's fault, Real didn't buy Bale and then ask him to play a different role to the one that he made his name in, PSG didn't buy Neymar and ask him to play on the right or as a #9, you get what you pay for, you don't pay a premium rate for something in the hope that it becomes something else, that's like marrying someone in the hope they'll change once the ring is on.
Pogba was up against Dembele not Ali, and Dembele had him in his pocket. Ali didn't have a free role, he had the same role as Lingard at the start of the match and Sanchez later on. Ali had more effect than both those players.
Free Pogba!!. Could catch on, but a bit of a waste of a transfer fee.
Free Pogba!!. Could catch on, but a bit of a waste of a transfer fee.
OP said no team will bid 60-70 Million for Pogba, that bs considering Everton big nearly 50 Million for sigurdsson. Too many knee jerk reactions.
So he didn't trust him but wanted him so hard to stay, OK, mate, makes perfect sense.
hasnt ruined our fanbase, more so exposed it, there are more fickle fans than many might have thought, not quite the extent of a club like barcelona, real madrid or arsenal, but there are plenty. It has exposed a lot of the so called glory hunters and gotten rid of a lot of the fake fans, unfortunately a lot of them are starting to return, resulting in some of the most fickle posts.
Even in a midfield two, he should be impacting the play much more than he is. There have been an endless raft of excuses since he signed - but for a player of his reputation and ability you would expect much more. I expected him to dominate the league when he first came. A year and a half later, and he's still some way off someone like KDB, or even Eriksen.
Neither Kdb or eriksen are midfielders they are attacking midfielders/attackers. They dont play in pogbas position. They dont have to worry about defense at all.
Unless you're referring to games against top quality opposition, he does impact the game massively. When it comes to top teams, it's foolish to rely on one player to dominate proceedings when he's not being used correctly.
Re the OP itself, I think it's noodles sensationalizing a valid point. Using Pogba the way we do will never get the best out of him or the team when we come up against teams of our quality.
He’s easily our best outfield player and one of the best players in the league. We may never win the league with him in our team, but it’s certainly not going to be his fault.
2 very good points.
Using Pogba in midfield 2 where we dominate whole game is obviously good enough but against stronger teams away from home, it's a suicide. We don't dominate the game and we won't be good defensively either.
KDB is a midfielder. He typically plays on the right in central two of midfield in a 4-1-4-1. With him and the other central midfield given a lot of freedom to roam. It is actually probably very similar to the position a lot on here want Pogba to play in a midfield 3. Out of all City's midfielders think he puts in the best shift defensively. He has been being recognized for his defensive contributions all season.
Out of curiosity compared their defensive stats on whoscored. Surprisingly Debruyne puts in more tackled than Pogba. While Pogba has more interceptions. Considering how much City dominate possession contributing with similar defensive numbers shows Debruyne does have defensive responsibilities.
Not sure if I linked the image correctly of the stat comparison so putting a url of the image below:
https://ibb.co/foqZB6
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No sorry I disagree.
I can accept him having a poor game and going missing in big games when we need him but the worst of all this was his lack of effort.
Of course he was trying but it was way below the level of effort that we needed.
Both in attack and defense he could be seen ambling up and down the pitch and this was not his usual lazy running style.
He knew he was having a stinker and he was happy to give the game up.
I love how the OP made this abomination of a thread and then proceeded to reply about twice 
De Bruyne has won the ball back more than any other city player this season. The best players have an insane work ethic and commitment to the team.
If asked, De Bruyne would play in a midfield 2 for city and with his passing and football intelligence he'd do well. Pogba lacks discipline and the work ethic/commitment to be bothered to put the hard graft in.
Whether he is better in a 3 or as a 10 is irrelevant for me. He is inconsistent and not reliable in a midfield 2, which a 90 million pound midfielder should be able to do.
18 months he's been here and for all his talent, he is extremely over rated.
It really says something about your star player when it seems the only option is to sign other players to do the job he should be doing, but isn't good enough at.
We need to go to a midfield 3
I think if we are to improve to the levels required, Pogba has to be a big part of that.
He needs to contribute on the big occasions. Games like Wednesday leave us badly exposed and short of ideas.
It's partly down the the way we set up and partly down to his maturity.
He needs to contribute on the big occasions. Games like Wednesday leave us badly exposed and short of ideas.
It's partly down the the way we set up and partly down to his maturity.
This has to be banter
Our best outfield player by a country mile. Those criticising his showboating and willing to take risks were probably bemoaning sideways football when we had Tom Cleverley parading around our centre midfield.
He had an off game on Wednesday but Spurs midfield played a part in that. They suffocated Pogba and Matic thus stopping any forward passes coming through our midfield to our attackers. Combined with the high line they played at the back which lead us to a lot of wasted possession playing long balls over the top that were too long or intercepted.
Spurs done a job on us Wednesday all over the park, sometimes you've just got to hold your hands up to it. Pogba was not and is not the problem to us succeeding.
Our best outfield player by a country mile. Those criticising his showboating and willing to take risks were probably bemoaning sideways football when we had Tom Cleverley parading around our centre midfield.
He had an off game on Wednesday but Spurs midfield played a part in that. They suffocated Pogba and Matic thus stopping any forward passes coming through our midfield to our attackers. Combined with the high line they played at the back which lead us to a lot of wasted possession playing long balls over the top that were too long or intercepted.
Spurs done a job on us Wednesday all over the park, sometimes you've just got to hold your hands up to it. Pogba was not and is not the problem to us succeeding.
I don't know about Eriksen but KDB does have to defend. Search this video : "Kevin De Bruyne - The Most Modern Player? | Analysis 2/2" on youtube. I can't post the link here.
I always thought Pogba along with Valencia were the hardest working players in the team. I could possibly be wrong. We need anyone with statistics to confirm.
I watched part of the game at an airport in Qatar and heard this was Pogbas' first defeat in the Premiership since he signed. That's a fantastic achievement and proves he can win the league. Unfortunately, he's been absent for most games against the major teams this season.
The problem in my opinion like many have mentioned is Pogba and Matic in a midfield 2 against better opposition. Pogba has a natural tendency to push forward leaving Matic to cover vast spaces and giving opposition too much time and space to work.
We need a right sided box to box midfielder who can give us a few goals and is disciplined enough to cover spaces left when Pogba is playing further forward giving Matic some support. I thought Herrera would be that guy but he's forgotten how to play this season.
I also can't see Alexis, Mata, Martial and Lingard in the same team which was the case in the latter part of the game against Spurs. They're not the players to win the ball back from opposition. It's no wonder we looked so inept and Spurs were able to play without any pressure.
I watched part of the game at an airport in Qatar and heard this was Pogbas' first defeat in the Premiership since he signed. That's a fantastic achievement and proves he can win the league. Unfortunately, he's been absent for most games against the major teams this season.
The problem in my opinion like many have mentioned is Pogba and Matic in a midfield 2 against better opposition. Pogba has a natural tendency to push forward leaving Matic to cover vast spaces and giving opposition too much time and space to work.
We need a right sided box to box midfielder who can give us a few goals and is disciplined enough to cover spaces left when Pogba is playing further forward giving Matic some support. I thought Herrera would be that guy but he's forgotten how to play this season.
I also can't see Alexis, Mata, Martial and Lingard in the same team which was the case in the latter part of the game against Spurs. They're not the players to win the ball back from opposition. It's no wonder we looked so inept and Spurs were able to play without any pressure.
No one has taken noodlehair seriously for years now, posts like this explain why.
It’s not surprising that a player that plays in a team with a high press has more tackles than a player thats team doesn’t doesn’t. He’s not a midfielder like Pogba.KDB is a midfielder. He typically plays on the right in central two of midfield in a 4-1-4-1. With him and the other central midfield given a lot of freedom to roam. It is actually probably very similar to the position a lot on here want Pogba to play in a midfield 3. Out of all City's midfielders think he puts in the best shift defensively. He has been being recognized for his defensive contributions all season.
Out of curiosity compared their defensive stats on whoscored. Surprisingly Debruyne puts in more tackled than Pogba. While Pogba has more interceptions. Considering how much City dominate possession contributing with similar defensive numbers shows Debruyne does have defensive responsibilities.
Not sure if I linked the image correctly of the stat comparison so putting a url of the image below:
https://ibb.co/foqZB6
De Bruyne wins the ball back because city play a high press design to win and keep possession. It’s peps system. De Bruyne would not do well in a 2 man midfield because no one would be dumb enough to put him in one.
Paul isn’t bad in a 2. He isn’t 10/10 these best ever amazing like every expects but he’s been solid all year except for a couple of games. Seeing how bad we are without him says something about the other players not him. He can’t string a coherent pass without him. Other teams no that so when he does play they foul him and double mark him out the game. Hes been pretty good this year. I’d say he’s been stellar for the most part but you might get your underwear in at twist. He’s so overrated that’s why he wouldn’t make it into any other team but ours. City would absolutely love him on their team.
He’s only overrated because you never wanted him to be good in the first place. That’s why after a bad game people like you and so many others are so ready to crucify him and everyone else on the team when you where queit months ago. It’s just a game sometimes you need to say damn that was a bad game and move on. If he or any of the players are on the forum that’s what they do. Take this lost in stride and don’t overrated like the knee jerk glory hunter that are supposed to be fans on this forum.
I won;t have a bad word said against him and Anderson. Fergie's genius midfield 2.
Noodles' point was that Pogba needs to grow up and change his attitude. Honestly, I find that ridiculous as a notion. Not one manager has complained of his attitude at Juve or here. I don't think his post sensationalizes anything, when it's very fundamentals are flawed to the core.
It honestly thought it was a windup until I read the OP's follow up replies.
I stand corrected.
Ok this thread needs to stop. Common people Pogba had an off day against Spurs, he can't play like a world beater every game. The best players of any sport have off days, getting wound up because of one bad performance is really weak mentality. Let it go and move on to the next game. GGMU
Your right he probably would be near the top. But then maybe some of the less athletic midfielder like your modrics kroos etc might be better all round as pogba would have pretty low ratings for defensive ability, decision making & positioning.
So in summary you are saying you are a fake fan if you criticise the performances or the managers performance?
Paid top money to buy him, paid him top money to play, yet does not play him to the best position that can do the maximum damage to the rivals. I blame the boss.
Formations can of course make a big difference to the performance levels of players, however when I hear the " Pogba needs to be played as part of a 3, or he needs x players beside him to shine" that raises some concerns regarding his ability.
On wed the formation may not have suited him but his effort and application was not acceptable.
Noods is a committed contrarian. Which to be fair I think places like this need, given it leads to lively debate - 10 pages in a couple of days tells its own story. Itd be boring if everyone spent all their time trying to find new ways of saying how amazing Pogba is.
Easier to rehash my other post.. It is easy to say Pogba has to suck it up or stupid, perhaps he is trying to but just doesn't have the skillset to do it. He's a £90m player, if he is unable to adapt.. we have to find a way of utilising what he is actually good at. Better to do that than write him off completely when you've spent a shit tonne of money. If he still doesn't perform after we try and get the best out of him.. then maybe he isn't for us.
I said it when we first signed him, it was a strange purchase for a side which was looking to rebuild because we had no fixed formation in place and getting someone like him you have to commit to a certain way of playing, a certain formation and he seemed at odds with what a Mourinho player is in terms of personality.
Now that we have him, it would be awful if we keep hitting a brick wall and failing to exploit what natural talents he does possess. We need to hone in on what his specialist traits are and maximise this..
- Incredible ball carrier (particularly down left or central areas on the counter)
- Great in tight spaces on the ball in the area from centre circle to just outside the final third/down the left flank too
- Great range of passing
- Eye for a killer pass from deeper areas
- Strong header of the ball
- Can chip in defensively
- Flair/unpredictable
- Brave on the ball
- Forward-thinking
- Lack of concentration
- Poor at ball retention
- Lack of constant movement
- Poor defensive work-rate
- Below par stamina for a CM
- Not very responsive
- Poor finisher
- Hit and miss with killer passes
- Temperamental
- Immature at times
- Inconsistent set-piece taker
- Poor defensive intelligence/positioning
- Average movement in attacking third too
- Not elusive enough to be a 10 - too big/rangy
So he's not a top tier CM. Well lets then look at the number 10 role or as the sole attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 ahead of a conservative double-pivot? well he can't do that either because he lacks the composure of a Ozil in terms of assists/killer passes and the consistency of execution. He lacks the finishing ability of a Sneijder and is very hit and miss with his shooting from range too. Most fundamentally, he lacks the nimbleness you'd associate with the top number 10s due to his height and physique and thus it would be very easy to crowd him out and pick him up. So playing him to close to goal is also an issue.
Which leaves him and the manager in abit of a quandary. He literally only comes alive in that area ahead of the centre circle but before the final third. That little space is where Pogba is a consistently world class entity. Anywhere else on the pitch and he can have moments of brilliance (both defensively and offensively) but left for too long in those areas and his deficiencies become apparent and he becomes a liability. The thing is for most footballers this is true. They have a position or area on the pitch where they feel very comfortable on the pitch and if they find themselves in other areas for too long they look like ducks out of water. Imagine Messi on the left wing, or permanently as a CM.. Neymar as a CF, or right-wing. Building a great football team is about placing 11 players in the right areas of the pitch, where they can combine to great effect both offensively and defensively and right now.. we are failing to pay attention to where Pogba feels comfortable or would be at his best.
So if he can't be a 10, or a CM.. and he doesn't score enough or grab enough assists to be our sole AM.. what is the point of him and is there any way of getting the best out of him.. well yes. Because he does have world class attributes like I listed above. For me the solution is that if you're serious about building a team around him, it has to either be a 4-4-2 diamond with him as a LCM.. with some defensive responsibility but mostly focusing on his B2B world class ball carrying ability with some goals/assists thrown in or you go for a three man midfield, with a certain type of forward ahead of him in the number 9 position.
It has to be a downwards facing pivot, you need a specialist CDM who has lungs and can also pick ball off CB's and spray it. More importantly the other midfielder needs to also be a B2B midfielder who can control the game but also chip in with goals/assists too.. so that the responsibility doesn't solely rest on Pogba who doesn't have it in him to be the sole AM in a side but in a combo can be part of a world class trio. We need a midfielder next to him who can score 8-10 goals a season as well, to take the heat off him but is more nimble and can keep possession better than Pogba. He needs a huge talent next to him as he himself can't do the heavy-lifting in that midfield.
Up front, you need a striker who can drop in deep and playmake as well as play the CF. A 9.5 is essential to make a 4-3-3 work, you can't have such a one-dimensional striker up top if you're going to get the best out of a Pogba. He needs a guy who can do the 10 role and the 9, so that Pogba can focus on that area of the pitch where he is world class. In a diamond, less emphasis on CF being a certain type because you got a 10 there but in a 4-3-3.. it is key that you get all the right types of players to get Pogba at his best. Otherwise hes going to constantly look like he doesn't fit and stick out like a sore thumb in this big games.
This is just a daft thread.End of.
Maybe I'm giving him more credit than he deserves?
How is this thread still alive
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