He is. It's obvious from his first season, if you care to look behind the basic stats and choose to factor in the mess he inherited and whether the squad was suited to his philosophy or not. Improvements should be made, and big ones, no one's arguing that. Even now, he's trying to get his team ready for next season without any proper forward available.
We are not going to score enough goals
- Thread starter careca07
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He is. It's obvious from his first season, if you care to look behind the basic stats and choose to factor in the mess he inherited and whether the squad was suited to his philosophy or not. Improvements should be made, and big ones, no one's arguing that. Even now, he's trying to get his team ready for next season without any proper forward available.
It's amazing isn't it ? Even in 2006 he had Rooney, Saha, Smith and Solskjaer and on top of that, he loaned in Henrik Larsson just to be sure.
Sure, i will understand that. I do not see him growing in to a more lethal winger, nor does he have the skills as a CF to hold up the ball and bring in others in to play. Will be great if he brings scores consistently and that can only help the new striker settle in without the pressure of scoring in a new league.
If he can sustain the numbers he has provided in three out of the last four seasons he would be the least of our concerns. No need to be more lethal than that as long as the rest of our side starts pulling their weight, which I believe they will. An actual striker, Onana and Mount should help us move our play closer to the opponents goal which will help a lot.
There's a limit to how long they can do that though, and I think we're nearing that limit. Even then, who knows if a sale even happens. It's entirely possible that they end up staying, in which case I fully expect them to make the choice I stated. They've never cared about publicity before, why would they now?
The Doc is my era as well so yes, and I was there in the scoreboard End when Eric came on as a sub in his first game, we were all having a good laugh at the "condom" wearers in the roofless Stretty at the timeNeither were the ones in the Stretford that sing The Twelve Cantonas of Christmas for weeks on end every year
The point is that United have a legacy of Messiah-like figures: Sir Matt, Robbo, SAF, Eric; fans of my era would almost certainly include The Doc. I do believe that we as a fanbase look more to individuals to “save” us than fans of other clubs.
The mount transfer for 60 million will be poor business if we don't get a competent striker this summer, it was money should have been used for a world class striker and will do more harm than not having brought mount this summer
Do you have to be a knob about it though? Why do you have to refer indirectly to me as ‘the fan base’?
All I said was that I believe we’re close to a challenge based on what we saw last season apart from when the schedule, injuries and suspensions took their tole around February.
I distinctly remember speaking to rival fans around the new year who said they thought that we were a couple big wins away from a genuine challenge. I think we were around 5 points off the top at the time.
Getting close to said challenge would depend in my opinion on signing a top striker e.g. Kane, plus improving the midfield and goalkeeper.
Im not happy with Antony, but maybe he will improve.
If Rashford had a similar season to last, coupled with Kane’s goals, I don’t see why we couldn’t be optimistic, what’s the point otherwise?
We finished 3rd last season. Surely youd be hoping for at least 2nd if good signings were made?
Don't know about unlucky. Greenwood certainly knows how to score goals but one striker for a squad fighting on four fronts is folly. One main striker is needed but a partner and a back-up is a must-have, and we haven't had that for a long time.
It's amazing isn't it ? Even in 2006 he had Rooney, Saha, Smith and Solskjaer and on top of that, he loaned in Henrik Larsson just to be sure.
Fergie knew that the striker is the most important player on the pitch. Scoring goals wins you games.
He went for a quick fix by getting RvP.
I remember when we bought Andy Cole - he was the top goal scorer the previous season and was the top goal scorer for Newcastle the season we bought him.
He also had the likes of Solkjaer, Sherringham, Cole, Yorke - all at the same time. The one time we had all 4 strikers on the pitch, we thumped Sheffield Wednesday.
Strikers win you games and we need a striker who is in his absolute prime.
Hojlund won't make any difference to our goal tally this season, so we'll be reliant on Martial and Rashford - both injury prone.
For these reasons, Kane would be the VERY obvious choice. Unfortunately, the financial cost would be too high.
Relegated without conceding a single goal or losing a single match
It basically leaves us with one fully developed attacker, in his prime, Marcus Rashford who can score from multiple positions (outside the box, headers etc.) and Hojlund who we know, won't have full pre-season, while pressure will be generated on him, also by his price tag... and Hojlund will be forced to play a lot, especially vs physical defenders, as Rashford is not a immovable tank type, who can hold the ball.
RVP and Andy Cole level of attack seems like unreachable thing, I had a silent hope we'll add some attackers, and one of them, will be Benzema, but it's not happening. The slight shift in strategy will be needed, and I hope the tiny bit of news, about Ten Hag reaching out to board for additional recruitment options is real.
If it's Kane or nothing, think I'm not a pessimist for saying: likely nothing. Still August will be much more interesting month for exploring the market. it's just this time, Real Madrid or Ajax probably won't help us build a squad further. Need to search in different places.
This is a fahct
It's amazing isn't it ? Even in 2006 he had Rooney, Saha, Smith and Solskjaer and on top of that, he loaned in Henrik Larsson just to be sure.
The other side of the coin is we are playing one up front now and most of this period we were playing two up front. I have said ever since the end of last seaso we needed to sign two strikers though and even the press were sellign that line with the "one top Kane/Omishen and a younger"....never bought into that, be happy with two good young strikers myself....unless Greenwood is coming back into the fold this season, just signing one is a big mistake, think a second striker far more important that DM signing myself
Interestingly enough we played Fred on this tour, in deep midfield, think it was once, so who knows what will really happen with DM position. Antony would never come, if Greenwood case wasn't an exploding cesspit. In many cases, it's usually us looking for a quick compromise, and not punching the problem in the c*nt (meaning striker).
I'm just wondering if Ten Hag is able to assemble his puzzle, like he wants on time. So far we have a beautiful tale of hope, on Martial staying fit for 23/24 from the man himself. Perhaps, it's a genius move, to heat up atmosphere, so the club will make some haste, before the season. If he can prepare Martial, like he prepared Wan Bissaka, then give him 10 years extension... still two strikers is a lot to ask, this time.
38 points is normally safe, 35.22 points is the average for relegation in the 38 game PL seasonRelegated without conceding a single goal or losing a single match
Oh yes I’d forgotten about the building work back then. I hardly made it to any games that season owing to birth of first child, moving house and turbulence at work. United prospered in my absence thoughThe Doc is my era as well so yes, and I was there in the scoreboard End when Eric came on as a sub in his first game, we were all having a good laugh at the "condom" wearers in the roofless Stretty at the time
The Elephant in the room needs addressed. A few have mentioned him already.
The Club had in MG one of the most promising young strikers in the world who would easily get us 15-20 goals a season had his career not stalled, and rightly so.
Now however, he is available to play so the Club needs to come out and deal with that.
Either:
A. Integrate him back into the squad so he can hit the ground running next season for Utd. or
B. Sell him abroad for as much as they can get and use the money to buy a replacement to score those much needed goals.
Doing and saying nothing, seems to be the Utd way though.
The fact that MG was pictured training with Elanga suggests he’s on path B, imo.
The Club had in MG one of the most promising young strikers in the world who would easily get us 15-20 goals a season had his career not stalled, and rightly so.
Now however, he is available to play so the Club needs to come out and deal with that.
Either:
A. Integrate him back into the squad so he can hit the ground running next season for Utd. or
B. Sell him abroad for as much as they can get and use the money to buy a replacement to score those much needed goals.
Doing and saying nothing, seems to be the Utd way though.
The fact that MG was pictured training with Elanga suggests he’s on path B, imo.
Heh. On the other hand, after super league fiasco, Glazers promised so called improved communication with the fanbase.
Definitely option B, for all of them. At some point, one can get tired of deciphering every action and nuance, like it's riddle of the pyramids. Think I'd rather listen to US congress, talking about Alf returning to earth.
It feels set up for either Greenwood returning or Kane arriving. No way we sign don't sing or just Hojlund. He's not enough.
Judging how City, the benchmark over the last 3 years, has averaged 92 goals a season, means the team need to find at least 30 extra goals a season, which just bringing in Hojlund wont accomplish, unless he suddenly turns into RVN. Signing Kane would guarantee 20-25 goals, with the rest of the team having to find around 70 and you just cant see it happening, neither Kane coming, or the rest scoring 70.
He's not enough but don't see another striker being signed before the window closes
nah... I intend to work you till you drop
I like how conveniently you sight when CR7 was here, Rashford form was in the toilet and we were learning rebuilding our system of play. Let alone last season when Rashford had to take on the goal scoring burden because martial was struggling so wasn't really concentrating on creation. Forgetting the season under Ole Rashford and Martial were at their best at the same time and had greenwood to boot. They combined for a high number of goals and assists between the three of them
ETH likes his attackers to be part of combos. Right now neither wide attacker has had a striker to consistently create a combo with. They are just very well combined with Bruno and their backing fullback. That is why you are not going to see high creative numbers from them till of is sorted. Its just that simple.
Puhleasw.... You are the one claiming our wide forwards "are not particularly creative at all". Utterly oblivious to the fact you have to have who to create chances for, in the given set up one is employed in. The proof you are the one with that exact problem diagnose is you imagine am merely refferencing assists when I cite that blatant fact.
It's why Í said earlier you fundamentally misunderstand how ETHs attack side of his set up functions.
And mine is because you blatantly don't understand the set up you are trying to discuss. You imagine merely viting Bruno's natural creativeness and creative types like him being able to create in most det ups counts as a rebúttal to what I stated.
The fact you are so ill inormed as to believe our wide forwards are "creative zeros" yet even tje statistics don't back ot úp says it all really. This Convo is pointless....
Or 38 1-0s this would win us the league without having to worry about goals too much.Relegated without conceding a single goal or losing a single match
That is suggesting we had almost the expected goals from our open play as Manchester City. This is clearly bollocks.
I think those United players you mentioned look to score every time it's reasonably possible.
I see no reason why not to integrate, surely it would be best for both club and the player to keep him and allow him to play to give him the best chance to turn his issues around, surely people are allowed a 2nd chance in life to redeem themselves.
It's funny that our club is worried about the the backlash and image of Greenwood playing for the club again but you have these sportswashing clubs with owners that are responsible for human rights atrocities and even most of our fans are welcoming such owners to takeover our club
Even if he comes back into the squad, there is no guarantee he would provide goals immediately. He hasn't played a professional game of football in a year and a half. He also hasn't had a pre-season. It could take him a while to get back to his previous level.
Agreed. We need two strikers not just one.
It's not bollocks, it's true for all models. What it probably doesn't factor in it's the situational parameters that can affect the stats. My guess is that City spent more minutes than us in the lead, meaning that opponents had to open up and take risks, and also fewer minutes chasing the score, thus not in a hurry to force things themselves.
Not defending our lack of clear transfer strategy but the current strikers across Europe aren't exactly perfect.
With Kane, you're asking for a lot of money for a guy who may only have 3 years at the highest level.
With Højlund, you're asking for what 60 million plus to sign a player who has had one season at a top league. He's got the
Mbappe is just a circus and we're best avoiding.
And there's a load of other people that would rather either didn't happen.
I see plenty. When you say best for the club, you surely mean the men's team? We have a women's team, and I'm afraid that reintegrating Greenwood would not go over well with the squad. I'm not so sure it would be the best for the club as a whole. It is about principles and it is about optics. Sure he deserves a second chance, but plenty of people believe that he should get that second chance elsewhere.
Interesting. I knew our open play attack was better, but that model rates it 2nd best. It would help to have more data regarding how many high percentage xG chances are created.
Our set piece xG though is absolutely horrific and lines up with the eye-test. We're such a non-threat on corners or other set-pieces near the goal.
Our problem last season wasn't the lack of a mega striker, it was the lack of any striker period. There was no one that could be relied upon to hold the ball in the box, play with his back to goal, get scrappy tap in and do all the things that a CF needs to do. Højlund is capable of doing all those things and that will instantly improve our attacking play.
Think the spread of our goals will look something like this: (all comps)
Rashford 20
Højlund 14
Garnacho 12
Antony 10
Bruno 12
Martial 8
Sancho 8
Mount 8
Casemiro 5
Eriksen 5
Rest of the midfield combined 6
Defenders 5
Think the spread of our goals will look something like this: (all comps)
Rashford 20
Højlund 14
Garnacho 12
Antony 10
Bruno 12
Martial 8
Sancho 8
Mount 8
Casemiro 5
Eriksen 5
Rest of the midfield combined 6
Defenders 5
City and Arsenal score so much because of their style of play and number of creative players in the team. We can emulate the style of play but EtH isn't a magician and is limited by options.
We only get consistent creativity from Bruno, Eriksen and Shaw.
The one area where City and Arsenal blow us out of the water is the ability for their players to beat their man with a direct dribble in tight areas. Add this to their ability to pass well and you will open up teams for fun.
Bruno and Eriksen are our most creative player but both cannot dribble for shit. Compare this to Odegaard, Saka, KDB, Bernardo, Grealish who can all beat players easily.
The ability to dribble and pass is how teams create many chances. Sancho is probably the best at combining both in our team but he's also one of the most unreliable players we have in the team.
So while you don't necessarily need a No.9 to score loads of goals, you definitely need dynamic creators and we just don't have enough of them. Add that to our lack of scorers and it's obvious why we don't score enough goals.
We only get consistent creativity from Bruno, Eriksen and Shaw.
The one area where City and Arsenal blow us out of the water is the ability for their players to beat their man with a direct dribble in tight areas. Add this to their ability to pass well and you will open up teams for fun.
Bruno and Eriksen are our most creative player but both cannot dribble for shit. Compare this to Odegaard, Saka, KDB, Bernardo, Grealish who can all beat players easily.
The ability to dribble and pass is how teams create many chances. Sancho is probably the best at combining both in our team but he's also one of the most unreliable players we have in the team.
So while you don't necessarily need a No.9 to score loads of goals, you definitely need dynamic creators and we just don't have enough of them. Add that to our lack of scorers and it's obvious why we don't score enough goals.
There is some truth to this, but chance creation was not our problem, finishing was. I think the main difference between us and teams like City and Arsenal last season was the distance to the goal when winning the ball back, i.e. a high defensive line. It is easier to create bigger chances when the ball is won closer to the danger areas. The signing of Onana should help massively with this, and a striker that can occupy the oppositions centre backs should help a lot as well with creating space. Statistically we should expect more goals this season just based on our underperforming last season but I also believe the type of players ten Hag has targeted will make us a lot more dangerous. Mount is comfortable in tight and congested spaces and areas of the pitch, which we'll need in midfield if we play a higher line.
All in all I'm quietly confident our scoring will increase notably this season. We might start a bit slow, given that the De Gea/Onana change is huge and some player may need some time to get used to it, but the signs are pointing in the right direction if you ask me.
My point was more for new season and poster suggesting Ten Hag knows he needs get more goals and how he would prefer Greenwood and my assertion was once we get the striker whole frontline would be of his making and also most of team as well , either players bought under him or their contracts extended under him so in theory we should be getting better in terms of team chemistry as well as performances because revamp is almost completed .
Having said all this I am realistic I am not expecting a title challenge but comfortable top 4 finish and decent CL run while not getting embarrassed against direct rivals along with good football should be minimum expectation.
The thing with the narrative about us missing chances is we give it more importance than necessary because we watch every United game.
City and Arsenal miss a number of big chances due to poor finishing also. I've seen Gabriel Jesus and Nketiah miss so many chances they should have scored. City have always missed chances too especially pre Haaland. Liverpool also, Nunez particularly.
Every big team misses chances the difference is Arsenal and City create enough to eventually get it right. We on the other hand have to be clinical. There were many games where we miss a big chance in the first 20mins and that's our best chance for the rest of the game.
We don't create enough especially when we are chasing a game in the last 15-20mins. This is typically where it's an onslaught when bigger teams are chasing a result. The lack of striker is the biggest issue but creativity isn't too far behind.
I agree that we can get better at chance creation. I tried to explain in that post why I think we will, and that players that can dribble isn't the only way to get there. As someone pointed out earlier, one of our biggest problems in recent years is getting bodies in the box. With the whole team pushing up the field the distance players will have to cover to get into the box should hopefully be drastically shorter, which again should lead to better chances and more goals scored. Players with good ability in tight spaces, such as Mount and Sancho should be quite useful centrally if this is the case. More people close to the box centrally should also leave some more space open on the wings, which could help players like Antony and our fullbacks quite a bit. It might not always work, especially to begin with, but I like the direction ten Hag is taking the squad.