I'm genuinely nervous about the striker situation now. We need to get someone in ASAP to Atleast start training with the team. Are we really going to start the season without getting someone in?
We are not going to score enough goals
- Thread starter careca07
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There's also not much variation in how our attackers can score.
Other than the purple patch Rashford had, none of them can score with headers. Martial is probably the best but he barely scores or plays enough.
Sancho is all side foot finish in the box with his right foot. Antony is all cut in from the right with long range curlers.
Sorry to bring up Greenwood again but he could score at the near or far post with daisy cutters or top bins. This is how Arsenal are able to score a lot as Saka and Martinelli are not predictable around the goal unlike our current batch outside Rashford.
Other than the purple patch Rashford had, none of them can score with headers. Martial is probably the best but he barely scores or plays enough.
Sancho is all side foot finish in the box with his right foot. Antony is all cut in from the right with long range curlers.
Sorry to bring up Greenwood again but he could score at the near or far post with daisy cutters or top bins. This is how Arsenal are able to score a lot as Saka and Martinelli are not predictable around the goal unlike our current batch outside Rashford.
We probably won't score enough goals to win the league, no.
But an overall improvement in how we play/how ETH's system is implemented alone should mean we score significantly more than last season (when we struggled with a dysfunctional and/or severely limited team for large parts of the season...and still finished 3rd).
Also, Mount (whatever else he may be, or not be) is the sort of player who should chip in with goals (and goal contributions) fairly regularly in a well functioning team. Last season was clearly an anomaly for him (the team obviously wasn't well functioning at all).
But an overall improvement in how we play/how ETH's system is implemented alone should mean we score significantly more than last season (when we struggled with a dysfunctional and/or severely limited team for large parts of the season...and still finished 3rd).
Also, Mount (whatever else he may be, or not be) is the sort of player who should chip in with goals (and goal contributions) fairly regularly in a well functioning team. Last season was clearly an anomaly for him (the team obviously wasn't well functioning at all).
And at the same time, it is absolutely possible to have a prolific striker and be a low-scoring team.
How did you get that from my comment?
Yeah. It's really reassuring knowing that we will be in for the 5th place trophy.
We were unlucky. We were comfortable in the knowledge Greenwood was the long-term plan till he suddenly wasn't. We've been in trouble ever since
You're are the one straight up talking nonsense. Bruno is a center attacking midfielder who has had wide attackers and strikers ahead of him to help create the space for him to operate not to mention put away what he creates. To try to compare the two is hilarious naive. The wide attackers/wingers in contrast haven't had any consistent central striker to partner with let alone create chances with. The one time we had that since the corvid season Rashord's form was in the toilet and we had nothing on the right after we lost Greenwood.
To even emphasize my point more last season Rashford as a wide attacker took on the team's burden for scoring goals. You have to really not understand football to expect Antony to have been the one supplying him with chances from the opposite flank and vice versa.
And this below
They don't create much because they aren't creative players. For Rashford that's fine as he's actually a good goalscorer and improved his finishing tremendously last year. For Antony it's a huge issue as he isn't efficient at all in front of goal while shooting more than anyone else on the pitch not named Rashford.
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Plain demonstrates your fundamental misunderstanding of inside out wingers in ETHs preferred system of play and how center strikers are essential to the their ability to create on a consistent basis.
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Not United fan but I've thought for a while your best approach is starting Rashford and Sancho up front, together. Clearly the latter functions better in more central areas; as a second striker type.
The amount of moaning I hear here about last season where our wide players kept just shooting constantly and how they are still just doing that now in pre season, it's directly linked to the fact we haven't had a consistent striker to take advantage of this? I have full belief we will start cutting the ball back or crossing when we have someone who can take advantage of it, I'm relaxed that the team itself will improve enough as a result of a new striker and keeper.
Time to wake up now
Most of the fans that go mental over phantom transfers I suspect weren't even born when Eric joined us!
I like how you're convincing yourself that.
Anyway, without a proper striker and entering the season depending on Martial again means we're in for another top 4 battle.
Yes because finance and income has nothing to do with the progress the club makes
Like it or not before we challenge for leagues we need to be consistently finishing well in those places and developing the squad with first choice targets
I think we need another stop gap striker signing 
Been a problem for years now. The wingers don't contribute enough and the mids aren't creative enough, our fullbacks don't bomb forward or put in majestic crosses. Its an issue that'll probably take multiple windows to fix.
We need more than one attacking addition for sure, especially if that one is to be Hojlund. I expect struggles going forward again, largely due to the right side of our attack being redundant.
Just shocking that in the good old times we had like 4 strikers who would all be starters now, and now we dont even have one.
Signing Hojlund might be a first step but we would count on Rashy and the others to perform but that's a bit of a question mark so far.
Signing Hojlund might be a first step but we would count on Rashy and the others to perform but that's a bit of a question mark so far.
I agree, but I doubt this transfer window will close the gap to City. No playmaker in CM and no proven striker. We are making progress but the gap is huge.
Who's to say Hojlund is the last striker we'll sign? We're still being linked with that Muani lad too.
This is a great statistic. I thought we created plenty of chances but our finishing at times was poor. That’s why I’m not as pessimistic about Hojlund as others. I won’t be surprised if he scored at least 20 goals for us in all competitions. Even Martial had 6 goals in the league! Create opportunities for Hojlund and he’ll score. I also expect others like Antony, Bruno and Sancho to improve on their goal returns this season, so we’ll close the gap and improve our goal haul.
I have serious concerns about this too. I find it mind boggling that we signed Mount and Onana before we addressed the forward situation.
Assuming. A Onana works out and pushes the whole team 15/20 yards higher up the pitch. We have recovery pace with our back 4 as Maguire won’t be playing. Casemiro is loosing his legs, so bringing through k Mainoo and signing Amrabat gives us good cover, Now we need 4 number 8/10’s that can play in the attacking midfield positions, I get the impression that Fred, DVB and to a lesser extent Scott don’t really offer the creativity of MM, CE and Bruno so we might get rid of all 3 and look at Paulo Dyballa type who is getting you 8/10 goals and 8/10 assists in a season. From 39/35 games.
The front 3 needs huge work and I don’t see us scaring teams unless we bought Kaine and Hojlund or brought back Greenwood with Hojlund and another veteran type striker, just don’t do see the options in our front 5 positions scoring 70/80 league goals and 25/35 in the cups can’t see it ?
The front 3 needs huge work and I don’t see us scaring teams unless we bought Kaine and Hojlund or brought back Greenwood with Hojlund and another veteran type striker, just don’t do see the options in our front 5 positions scoring 70/80 league goals and 25/35 in the cups can’t see it ?
Random thing I noticed: as per fbref our player who underperformed their xG by the most last season was Eriksen, who scored four goals less than he "should" have. This despite his overall minutes having been curtailed by injury. Did people have the sense that he was particularly wasteful?
Next on the list were Antony and Weghorst, which I probably would have guessed.
Next on the list were Antony and Weghorst, which I probably would have guessed.
There is no striker that would make us title contenders.
Antony and Sancho create very little chances. I'd hate the fact that they are prominent players in our attack even if their combined cost was like 40m.
Martial should be let go. Rashford was our only real weapon last season, and I fear he won't be able to sustain this.
Garnacho is a very exciting prospect, who knows what he can or can't do if he's given the chance to play, say, 35 games a season...
It's not just about the acquisition of Hoijlund or lack of it.
Chance creation is still a very very big issue.
There were times last season where it seemed we gave the ball to Rashford and prayed (am saying this as a huge ETH fan).
Martial should be let go. Rashford was our only real weapon last season, and I fear he won't be able to sustain this.
Garnacho is a very exciting prospect, who knows what he can or can't do if he's given the chance to play, say, 35 games a season...
It's not just about the acquisition of Hoijlund or lack of it.
Chance creation is still a very very big issue.
There were times last season where it seemed we gave the ball to Rashford and prayed (am saying this as a huge ETH fan).
Oh give me a break. Even when we had Ronaldo (who for all his faults was still a good goalscorer for the first season) or Martial firing in 19/20, it's not like Rashford was particularly creative. He never has been, his mindset is that of a goalscoring winger not one looking to play in low crosses across the face of goal or lay it off to a teammate.
And you seem to not understand the difference between getting assists and creating chances. But sure go ahead and expect Antony and Rashford to suddenly become Ribery I guess, surely Antony will suddenly upgrade his vision and creativity with a new striker!
My point on Bruno had nothing to do with his position, and more to do with creative players will find ways to create chances even in shit situations regardless of if those chances are converted. To act like our wingers will go from essentially creative 0's (barring Sancho) to suddenly putting them on a plate, even if we signed Kane, is hilariously naive and a fundamental misunderstanding of the personnel we employ at those positions.
Eriksen was guilty of missing a few that we'd expect him to score, but it's fine margins, and his injury definitely had an impact towards the end of the season
I can't forget a good one he missed at Forest when we were still only 1-0 up because of how i was screaming at the TV screen. The most recent one is a sitter against (the corpse of) Chelsea, right after Martial had scored the second (if i remember correctly). He also missed a good chance in the opening minutes against Arsenal (created by Dalot, who was on fire then), but no one cared because we won and he was great in that game. These should make up for the bulk of his xG. He was never afraid to try his luck from distance, either, which probably makes up for the rest.
Pellistri and Amad may be played through the middle.
Both tend to come in when played on the wing.
Both tend to come in when played on the wing.
Who said they’re content with Top 4? This is about you definitively saying. . .
Based on nothing the team have shown on the pitch & after only 1 year under EtH despite multiple examples it takes years to do what you’re expecting.
Nice try though.
Exactly.
It’s similar to losing Becks, missing out on Ronaldinho but getting Ronaldo or signing RvP. People are so quick to forget the Di Maria’s, the Depay’s, the Pogba’s though.
This forum points to Arteta & Klopp as examples, both were given years to do things EtH is already doing but see above, realism is apparently Top 4 contentment. Trouble isn’t the not contending it’ll be how dour this place becomes because of unrealistic objectives.
I have come to the same conclusion. We need to create chances on a consistent basis and the goals will come. Mind you a striker like Kane with his ability to create helps in the chance creation.
The main issue for the wingers like Sancho and Antony is Rashford. I now have a serious problem with him. Way over rated for what he does. Went a couple of seasons with hardly scoring, had a decent season now but when he stopped scoring, we hardly had any goals.
His finishing and over all game is not that great if he doesn't get the space to run at defenders. He doesn't stay in the box, so Antony, Garnacho, Sancho have no one to cross to, so they cut in and shoot which is hardly a great way to score unless you are deadly accurate like Robben which none of United's wingers are.
I still have hope for Sancho if he plays as a false 9 rather than Rashford lead the line. Garnacho seems to be more direct and better on the left wing. Rashford if he doesn't hit the ground running might find himself drifting with different positions. He doesn't excel in any.
We are going to find it difficult to score unless Rasmus really takes to the PL and saves United.
His finishing and over all game is not that great if he doesn't get the space to run at defenders. He doesn't stay in the box, so Antony, Garnacho, Sancho have no one to cross to, so they cut in and shoot which is hardly a great way to score unless you are deadly accurate like Robben which none of United's wingers are.
I still have hope for Sancho if he plays as a false 9 rather than Rashford lead the line. Garnacho seems to be more direct and better on the left wing. Rashford if he doesn't hit the ground running might find himself drifting with different positions. He doesn't excel in any.
We are going to find it difficult to score unless Rasmus really takes to the PL and saves United.
Neither were the ones in the Stretford that sing The Twelve Cantonas of Christmas for weeks on end every year
The point is that United have a legacy of Messiah-like figures: Sir Matt, Robbo, SAF, Eric; fans of my era would almost certainly include The Doc. I do believe that we as a fanbase look more to individuals to “save” us than fans of other clubs.
22/23 - 30 goals, 11 assists = 41 goal involvements
21/22 - 5 goals, 2 assists = 7 goal involvements
20/21 - 21 goals, 15 assists = 36 goal involvements
19/20 - 22 goals, 12 assists = 34 goal involvements
You’ll understand if I stopped reading after the bolded part. Utter car crash.
Think ETH knows we are going to struggle for goals too. Rashford had a great return last season but, it was during one of those spurts that him and Martial (when he used to be fit) would sometimes go on. Beyond that, last season, it was a toss up on if anyone would get us a goal every few games even. Casemiro's contributions even were a surprise.
Ten Hag would be expecting his starting attackers like Antony and Sancho to at least get a 1 in 3 rate at a club like United but, there is nothing to suggest that is going to happen this season from the little we've seen of the two in pre-season. When Ten Hag spoke about giving his opinion on Greenwood, who prior to him being out had also been laboring to contribute goals, I think would have at least said to the hierarchy with him, once fit and integrated, we probably at least have a 1 in 2 type player on our hands. Personally I feel like ETH wants him in but, Glazers care more about the sale and it's a distraction they don't care to engage in even if it means improving on the team, they want to leave that to whomever ends up buying the club.
With Onana and Mount I think we will see an improvement in ability to control games, so maybe we will create a little more per game but, they are not going to help with the poor finishers we currently have. On the left, I think with either Rashford or Garnacho we will have players that will run behind or go at defenders and will finish chances. But, we will need significant more threat and finishing in our striking and and right side to develop any kind of winning consistency to mount any kind of challenge.
Ten Hag would be expecting his starting attackers like Antony and Sancho to at least get a 1 in 3 rate at a club like United but, there is nothing to suggest that is going to happen this season from the little we've seen of the two in pre-season. When Ten Hag spoke about giving his opinion on Greenwood, who prior to him being out had also been laboring to contribute goals, I think would have at least said to the hierarchy with him, once fit and integrated, we probably at least have a 1 in 2 type player on our hands. Personally I feel like ETH wants him in but, Glazers care more about the sale and it's a distraction they don't care to engage in even if it means improving on the team, they want to leave that to whomever ends up buying the club.
With Onana and Mount I think we will see an improvement in ability to control games, so maybe we will create a little more per game but, they are not going to help with the poor finishers we currently have. On the left, I think with either Rashford or Garnacho we will have players that will run behind or go at defenders and will finish chances. But, we will need significant more threat and finishing in our striking and and right side to develop any kind of winning consistency to mount any kind of challenge.
Then he needs to get working on the training ground , United first and foremost need to create quality chances if they regularly do that then ideally Our no of goals should improve and please don't start making excuses for Ten Hag all ready once we get a Striker even if he is bit inexperienced Ten Hag should get this team working better in attacking sense and display better cohesion .
For better or worse this is Ten Hag's team now and most of the frontline is of his making as well so he needs to extract better performances from them .
One thing that gives me hope is that we were 2nd for open play xG last year (atleast per the opta xG model -- one that's relatively well regarded)
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/08/premier-league-stats-2022-23/
I'd like to see what the statsbomb model thinks but they don't break it down into open play vs set piece xG.
I don't think our players (wingers, AMs or otherwise) are below average finishers. Bruno, Rashford, Sancho are all pretty good at converting chances. Antony is a bit hit or miss but I wouldn't classify him as below average either just based on the shooting technique / eye test. One thing I'd love to see if anyone has data is if we make a lot of low xG chances vs a few high xG chances. low xG chances by their nature have higher variance and a team that creates some high xG chances will likely score more goals than a team that creates a lot of low xG chances.
The big chances missed puts us at about level with the other clubs, so I don't think our attackers are particularly poor in that regard: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_missed?se=489
No. City have had better attacking / creative / defining players .... Toure, D Silva, KDB, B Silva, Gundoghan.. plus Mahrez scored goals. Sterling scored a few. And before that lot we had Aguero, and now we have Haaland.
So no, there is no comparison with our situation. We do not have enough goal-scorers at the club, it's obvious. Mahrez looks to score. Does Antony? Does Martial start a game and you think this is a player that wants to score more than anything else? Does Sancho. Of course not, it's obvious.
We need a player up front for Manchester United who wants to score, score, score goals. How can clubs like Villa and Newcastle have goalscorers and we do not? Why? Look at Arsenal last season was great for them, and they scored goals. And they go out an buy Havertz.
Our needs are obvious. I think we need two goalscorers, at least.
SAF had four. Four. Remember that? The whole situation p****** me off, because anyone with any football nous' could see this situation coming. Just sign Holjund ffs.
This is good news then, especially when there's still time to add goalscorer, apart from obvious options.
The only problem is, August is also a month were club could be forced seeking short term options and risk of another Wout while slight, is still not entirely impossible.
I'd still risk it, just in case Sancho is not a false 9 and Martial is without pre-season so far.