We are not going to score enough goals

Plant0x84 said:
It’s a far bigger concern than the GK or Mason fecking Mount. :wenger:
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It's a concern, yes. But getting rid of De Gea means we don't have to score as many goals to compete. Hopefully Fred, McT and Maguire will leave too. They don't have to be replaced by insanely good players for us to improve.

We're not going to compete for the Premier League title. But the overall quality of our squad is improving.
 
Remember 1 - 0 wins is still 3 points.

We don't have to batter teams every week. We just need to control games more and impose ourselves on the opposition. Nicking that 1 goal be it from a lucky deflection or even an own goal still counts. Patience is still needed as this team is still 'under construction'.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Respectfully I disagree. We create great chances, both building from the back last season and on the counter/quick break away, but we don’t have a focal point to convert so last season our chances were falling to Weghorst and AWB.
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Oh don’t get me wrong, I totally agree about a focal point. Why would the likes of Antony cross it when he knows nobody is busting s gut to get on the end of crosses. I think by having a focal point who at least can do that will create chances for others. But it hasn’t been the only issue
 
We scored way less than our xG from the chances we created last season. If we fix that, we already have half solved the issue.

Bringing in a striker will help a lot.

Next: we need to create more from set pieces.
 
careca07 said:
It’s a problem that’s been getting worse every season, and last time out we were 50 goals behind city and 40 off Arsenal.

While I’m aware we are chasing a striker and ETH acknowledges the issue, it’s unnerving that our focus seems to be on a young player in Hoijlund that is not certain to score more than ten in a season.

Rashford did great last season but has a habit of blowing hot and cold. We can’t rely on Mount for more than five to ten goals max. Antony doesn’t score goals. Martial is always inured. Sancho wont get more than six.

There’s just no chance we are mounting a title challenge currently and while Onana helps the playing style, it’s the amount of goals that City, Arsenal and Liverpool score that makes the difference.

I think it’s this issue that could see us only just scrape top four. We really need two new strikers.

Anyone disagree or do you think the new playing style plus Hoiljund and Mount might be enough?
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Yeah that's why we're trying to sign a striker
 
careca07 said:
This wasn’t meant to be a doom and gloom thread by the way, I’m actually optimistic about this season and what ETH is doing

But unlike other top sides we don’t tend to get goals from midfield and so the focus is put much more on having prolific forwards
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I think midfield is ok, it’s not amazing but it’s chipping in with a decent amount. Mount should help here to a degree.
(PL)
Bruno. 8G 8A
Case. 4G 3A
Eriksen. 1G 8A
Fred. 2G 2A
McT.1G 0A

If the CMs can get about 20 goals between them then you only need your front three to have 15 goal seasons (which isn’t that crazy, basically a striker with 20 goals and the wide attackers on 12/13) and your on 65 goals. Add in 5 or so from defenders and OGs and you’re into the 70s. Basically we need a striker.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Not what I said, and I agree creation can be better, but for me xG is about chance conversion not chance creation. We’re getting into goal scoring situations and then not scoring goals. We need someone clinical.
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It can be used for both really if you then compare it to goals scored. You have to "create" the xG, for want of a better way of putting it.

So if it's not tallying with high creation relative to the standards that others are setting then I think it's fair to question whether we're creating great chances as you said. We're creating chances as all teams do but ultimately not more than the teams that set the standards and even a few that were behind us.

Two ways around that to improve the goals scored column. We either create more and convert at the same rate or we convert in a higher proportion of the xG we do create. Probably both and I don't think we can put all our problems down to one or the other. If we have a proper 9 we need to create more for them than we managed last season and we also need a 9 that can finish his dinner unlike Wout.
 
Hard not to agree with the OP.

Insane that Osimhen is likely re-signing with Napoli. Maybe scouts know something we don't. Kane is the dream though.
 
I agree it’s frustrating because we’re actually so close to a title challenge imo. Harry Kane in this squad would be a massive boost. I feel if the Glazers had been gone by now we would have signed Kane under new ownership, but alas that looks like it’s going to rumble on well into the season.
Fingers crossed we can get Hojlund in soon and he has an impact straight away.
 
United going into the new season with the most prominent issue in the previous campaign. This thread will be a benchmark throughout the 38 games it's almost a guarantee.

Every single wide attacking player in their current cycle of development should be coming off the bench. They are not first team quality at this moment in time for a top four competitive team. The statistics back this up as well as assessing their influence in performances.

I know City is a poor example financially but perhaps a good one by way of planning they acquired Grealish without having strong dependency for him to hit the ground running because they had genuine quality in the wide areas. So all he has to do is to add to that foundation. At United all the wingers are in a similar boat of essentially not being ready they either have the label of underperformed, showing promise and need further assessment.

A striker is a significant factor in alleviating the problem but it's not the solution. The solution is that a new dynamic of attacking players should have been targeted this window (quality wide forwards and a striker) it was of more importance than the midfield.

This also has nothing to do with pre season, if Rashford doesn't hit form with the current squad of players this team will finished around 6th.
 
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Plant0x84 said:
Lads, he isn’t the answer and he won’t be the player he once was after his enforced sabbatical.
Nor should he be the answer, he doesn’t deserve to wear our shirt again, and we are a big enough club that we should be able to afford and attract the very best strikers.
Feck the glazers and feck MG.
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If that’s the case then release him for free & let him play elsewhere. Due to forum rules we can’t really elaborate but his ‘enforced sabbatical’ is bordering on farcical.

I’d love to see how negotiations with Levy go when the first line of negotiation is ‘sell us Kane we’re big enough’.
 
A lot of goals come in blow out wins. Think the 2nd, 3rd and 4th goals in a 4-0 win. What we need to do is get better at getting the 2nd goal and more goals will then follow.

If Hojlund can bring 15 and Mount adds 5-10 then that may be all it takes to add another 20 in bonus goals.
 
The Irish Connection said:
I agree it’s frustrating because we’re actually so close to a title challenge imo. Harry Kane in this squad would be a massive boost. I feel if the Glazers had been gone by now we would have signed Kane under new ownership, but alas that looks like it’s going to rumble on well into the season.
Fingers crossed we can get Hojlund in soon and he has an impact straight away.
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Ridiculous from our fanbase. Arteta, who many lauded last year was given 4 years of dross. EtH has had a year, nobody expected that lot to win things with Auba, Pepe & Ozil. We’re far from the finished article & are certainly not any one player away.

This season is going to be unbearable with that narrative, we’ve no right to be considered challengers or even close.
 
Need to get Bruno in attacking areas more often, he can do a good job in a more disciplined positional role in midfield but he’s probably the best player in the squad for movement and second best player at shooting after Rashford. He scored 8 in the league last year but needs to be hitting double digits at least if we’re going to do anything.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Ridiculous from our fanbase. Arteta, who many lauded last year was given 4 years of dross. EtH has had a year, nobody expected that lot to win things with Auba, Pepe & Ozil. We’re far from the finished article & are certainly not any one player away.

This season is going to be unbearable with that narrative, we’ve no right to be considered challengers or even close.
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Don’t really understand what you’re saying other than you think I’m being ridiculous and unbearable?
 
Møllemanden said:
It's a concern, yes. But getting rid of De Gea means we don't have to score as many goals to compete. Hopefully Fred, McT and Maguire will leave too. They don't have to be replaced by insanely good players for us to improve.

We're not going to compete for the Premier League title. But the overall quality of our squad is improving.
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That's complete BS, for all his faults DDG kept more clean sheets that any other keeper last season, to suggest that because he's gone we don't need to score as many is just plain nuts.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Don’t really understand what you’re saying other than you think I’m being ridiculous and unbearable?
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No, I think the notion we’re close to a title challenge is unrealistic & placing far too much expectation on a squad still littered with multiple holdovers from the disastrous OgS era.

This fanbase seem to want to expedite the process which ultimately will lead to exaggerated expectations that when the squad fall short of will be used to chastise them despite it not quite being fit for that purpose. Caf favs Klopp & Arteta we’re given what nearly half a decade each. . .
 
We'll not score enough to challenge for the league

We will score enough for top 4

I think we'll score more next season than last....

Rashford might drop off a bit but Hojlund will grab 12/13, Garnacho/Antony/Sancho will have a greater impact and I've a feeling Bruno will have a big year, helped by Mount arriving.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
No, I think the notion we’re close to a title challenge is unrealistic & placing far too much expectation on a squad still littered with multiple holdovers from the disastrous OgS era.

This fanbase seem to want to expedite the process which ultimately will lead to exaggerated expectations that when the squad fall short of will be used to chastise them despite it not quite being fit for that purpose. Caf favs Klopp & Arteta we’re given what nearly half a decade each. . .
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Well, I think you’re being a bit ridiculous with your sweeping statements. You said yourself that Arteta went from dross to a title challenge, so I’m sorry if I want to be ambitious/optimistic about a season of football supporting my club. What, are we supposed to do, go in with heads bowed and gleefully shake city’s hand again because we’re happy with 3rd or 4th?

I agree that currently we’re unlikely to challenge for the league but a top striker like Kane plus Onana would certainly take us closer. We were considered outsiders for a title challenge in January, but injuries, suspensions and a crap striker meant we stumbled.

I can’t remember where Leicester finished the season before they won the league, but I don’t think it was 2nd.
Im just being hopeful for a new season, and you don’t know that I will be hyper critical if we don’t push City close. Tbh I won’t.
Its just frustrating when we can see that we’re not a million miles away anymore, and the ownership situation is an obstacle to reaching the potential.
 
We honestly can’t compete with Liverpool who have Salah, Nunez, Diaz , Gakpo. All high volume scorers.

one striker purchase won’t solve our problem unless it’s Kane and he stays healthy and you begin to understand why I would take Greenwood back. He’d be amazing under Ten hag
 
Mr PG said:
We honestly can’t compete with Liverpool who have Salah, Nunez, Diaz , Gakpo. All high volume scorers.

one striker purchase won’t solve our problem unless it’s Kane and he stays healthy and you begin to understand why I would take Greenwood back. He’d be amazing under Ten hag
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Without wanting to talk about what he did, I think it's increasingly likely that we plan on bringing him back into the squad.
 
Is Martial going to be able to have any preseason whatsoever? Be good to know if he'll be sharp for his next 3 game run before inevitable injury combo.
 
At risk of being pedantic the OPs maths are horrendous.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Ridiculous from our fanbase. Arteta, who many lauded last year was given 4 years of dross. EtH has had a year, nobody expected that lot to win things with Auba, Pepe & Ozil. We’re far from the finished article & are certainly not any one player away.

This season is going to be unbearable with that narrative, we’ve no right to be considered challengers or even close.
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Agreed. Don't get it as well. I mean, for sure, be optimistic, be ambitious. But a notion that we only have to add one player is crazy. As if people haven't really been watching out games last year. Heck, not even 24 hours ago we have seen our limitations against Real Madrid. Preseason of course but still.
 
Mr PG said:
We honestly can’t compete with Liverpool who have Salah, Nunez, Diaz , Gakpo. All high volume scorers.

one striker purchase won’t solve our problem unless it’s Kane and he stays healthy and you begin to understand why I would take Greenwood back. He’d be amazing under Ten hag
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This is the issue and the solution it's not a one size fits all striker inclusion that somehow resolves the wide areas from being adjacent.

I heard this opinion all the time, if that chance fell to Kane he'd have scored. But it likely wouldn't because the opposition will accommodate defensively different so some of the spaces United get into another striker wouldn't necessarily due to the tactical pragmatism of the opposition team defensively. However, when there's a multitude of threats in the wide areas the striker has far much more to work with.

That's why with Arsenal / City they essentially play a game of Whac-A-Mole with the opposing team. If a team wants to put all their efforts into nullifying player A no problem player B and C will pop up in the spaces exploited and there's a triage of goals coming from the multitude of positions. That's what United lack because the entire synopsis is to have a shiny player A with no consideration for the options around that individual.

The priority this summer should never have been the midfield (signing two regulars last season) but the wide areas in addition to a striker.
 
buckooo1978 said:
We'll not score enough to challenge for the league

We will score enough for top 4

I think we'll score more next season than last....

Rashford might drop off a bit but Hojlund will grab 12/13, Garnacho/Antony/Sancho will have a greater impact and I've a feeling Bruno will have a big year, helped by Mount arriving.
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Top 4 will be hot. City/Arsenal/Liverpool nailed on for three of the spots imo. Chelsea will be much better, Newcastle are good. I fear our squad is too thin.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
If that’s the case then release him for free & let him play elsewhere. Due to forum rules we can’t really elaborate but his ‘enforced sabbatical’ is bordering on farcical.

I’d love to see how negotiations with Levy go when the first line of negotiation is ‘sell us Kane we’re big enough’.
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I agree that the situation is farcical and suits nobody to be protracted the way it is. But I don’t agree that the club should just release him - this situation is made more complicated by the outcome (I.e- not going to trial) but one guys reprehensible actions shouldn’t impact the whole club - they deserve as big a fee for him as they can muster.
Your second paragraph is just facetious- obviously Levy believes spuds are a big team. Doesn’t change the fact that Man Utd should be vying for the best talent available, not just scratching around for goals because we have been so poorly run.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
certainly not any one player away.
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No, but striker is our biggest issue right now, and the best strikers will have the biggest impact on our game. We are far from clinical and desperately need to add that ruthlessness to our squad.
It smarts somewhat that we went into the window dreaming of Kane, Osimhen or Mbappe and we’re going to end up with an expensive nobody who isn’t proven.
 
Red in STL said:
That's complete BS, for all his faults DDG kept more clean sheets that any other keeper last season, to suggest that because he's gone we don't need to score as many is just plain nuts.
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Any other United goalkeeper of the past 20 years would have kept the same amount of clean sheets in this team. Argue all you want. Fact is, ETH agrees with me that De Gea is no longer good enough to play for Man Utd. A better goalkeeper concedes fewer idiotic goals. Therefore we don't have to compensate with more goals in the other end.

Harsh, yes. But that's my opinion.
 
Redstain said:
The priority this summer should never have been the midfield (signing two regulars last season) but the wide areas in addition to a striker.
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I think, I have to question the logic behind this post. I mean, if you refer to Casemiro and Eriksen (which to me is a bit of a stretch, because the later obviously shouldn't be a starter), then I am sure you have noticed, that we spend more than 150 million pound on "the wide areas".

Don't disagree with your overall point, we are not in a situation, where we only have to add one player (even at this point in time right now) to become a real contender (mind, obviously assuming each opposition team plays close to its potential, freak seasons always possible). We were the 6th best team in terms of xg last season, closer to the 7th (Brentford...) than to the first (obv. City).
 
Møllemanden said:
Any other United goalkeeper of the past 20 years would have kept the same amount of clean sheets in this team. Argue all you want. Fact is, ETH agrees with me that De Gea is no longer good enough to play for Man Utd. A better goalkeeper concedes fewer idiotic goals. Therefore we don't have to compensate with more goals in the other end.

Harsh, yes. But that's my opinion.
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Nice counter. Arguing with something that cannot be proven ^^ But I guess if ETH agrees with you, than all is good.

Btw: we aren't scoring enough goals since quite some time. And there is no direct causal connection to DDG.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Well, I think you’re being a bit ridiculous with your sweeping statements.
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From the man that brought us. . .
The Irish Connection said:
I agree it’s frustrating because we’re actually so close to a title challenge imo.
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About a squad that have never so much as held a challenge for more than a League/FA Cup. Fine by me though, you’re just setting yourself up for disappointment. They say it’s the optimism that kills you, have fun.
 
It's a big concern.

To challenge for the league we need multiple attackers performing to an elite level. Rashford is our only attacker who has ever proven to perform at a level that we need.

Our season is really resting on say 2 of Antony, Sancho, Garnacho and Amad stepping it up and performing at levels way above they are currently. At their current level, it's a really underwhelming bunch of wide players for a team hoping to win the league.

The underwhelming attacking options may have been able to offset by signing a proven elite striker who's a guaranteed source of goals and quality. Unfortunately there's none available to us. So with an unproven striker coming in, we're still heavily reliant on the likes of Antony/Sancho/Amad/Garnacho taking it up a few levels. Frankly it probably needed to be 2 strikers signed as Martial is a non-factor given his physical decline and the fact he's never available anyway.
 
NZT-One said:
Nice counter. Arguing with something that cannot be proven ^^ But I guess if ETH agrees with you, than all is good.

Btw: we aren't scoring enough goals since quite some time. And there is no direct causal connection to DDG.
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It's not De Geas fault that the attackers don't score enough. I'll give you that. But if you don't concede silly goals, you don't have to score even more goals.

We don't score enough. I think we can all agree on that.
 
The last time we had a good attack, we had Rashford, Bruno, Cavani and Greenwood capable of getting us goals. We've basically lost the goals of Greenwood and Cavani and haven't replaced it.

Antony is a downgrade on Mason by about two levels and Cavani once he got going was lethal in the box, particularly in the air and was great at bringing others into play.

We also had the added creativity of Pogba. The proof is in the pudding really, we score less goals because we don't have good attackers, blaming the lack of striker is just an excuse. Rashford and Garnacho are the only attackers worth keeping or good enough.
 
NZT-One said:
Agreed. Don't get it as well. I mean, for sure, be optimistic, be ambitious. But a notion that we only have to add one player is crazy. As if people haven't really been watching out games last year. Heck, not even 24 hours ago we have seen our limitations against Real Madrid. Preseason of course but still.
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Exactly.

The thing that gets me though is, these people have never witnessed this team even put up a futile title challenge but will laden a squad only partially reconstructed by EtH, after only 1 season in charge, with crazy expectations only to bleat on when they fall short. The focus should be to solidify/progress but people get their hopes up & pin silly pressure on phantom signings. People never learn & I can see it coming a mile off this season.
Plant0x84 said:
I agree that the situation is farcical and suits nobody to be protracted the way it is. But I don’t agree that the club should just release him - this situation is made more complicated by the outcome (I.e- not going to trial) but one guys reprehensible actions shouldn’t impact the whole club - they deserve as big a fee for him as they can muster.
Your second paragraph is just facetious- obviously Levy believes spuds are a big team. Doesn’t change the fact that Man Utd should be vying for the best talent available, not just scratching around for goals because we have been so poorly run.
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It’s frustrating that this forum won’t allow discussion on no.11 despite there being criminal proceedings because I have a strong interest in discussing people who don’t want to see him released but then don’t want him to play again for us, alas will have to leave that for another day.

I agree that we should be vying for the best talent but unfortunately due to years of mismanagement both at board & coaching level we have to be realistic about where we are operating. Also the last time we operated in such a way the league was massively different, we’re now in an era where Brighton are rejecting £80mil offers. I’d love to have signed Kane & think we may have done so already under a SAF regime but players are contracting themselves to the clubs we used to poach from in a way that gives those clubs more power than before. As poorly run as we have been, I don’t blame that in this window though you could argue it’s cumulative from previous windows. Annoying thing is, had CR7 ran around a bit he’d get goals in this team & would have allowed us to wait for the next candidate.
Plant0x84 said:
No, but striker is our biggest issue right now, and the best strikers will have the biggest impact on our game. We are far from clinical and desperately need to add that ruthlessness to our squad.
It smarts somewhat that we went into the window dreaming of Kane, Osimhen or Mbappe and we’re going to end up with an expensive nobody who isn’t proven.
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All fair points but as much as we dreamed, Mbappe is Real bound, Osimhen never seemed to want to leave Napoli & Kane fecked up by signing the contract with Spurs in the first place.

Personally I’d rather us sure up other departments with 1st choice options & muddle through until an ideal option comes up in any position. My biggest worry isn’t Rasmus himself but this rhetoric that, ‘United must sign a striker’, this is the exact kind of mindset that led to spending £80mil on Maguire because we had to sign a ‘commanding centre back’.

I always mention it but when City didn’t get Kane a few years back they didn’t go off & sign ‘a striker’, they made do & bought elsewhere until the next suitable option arrived. I have high hopes for Hojlund but the fees edging towards walk away territory, if it all fell through & PSG were to swoop in I wouldn’t want us to just move on to a 3rd/4th/5th choice personally.
 
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