I mean, we dominated the psg game we lost, martial especially so poor In finishing. 1-3 was not a fair reflection of the game and I'm not sure how we didn't win let alone losing
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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It’s an expression I elaborated on - I’m aware Ole doesn’t have a handbrake by his seat and then release it. Your last sentence seems a bit at odds with itself, which is my exact point.
What you both are saying is it is more likely that we keep conceding first due to essentially nothing other than bad luck and don’t change anything. I suggest you look at how many times we have conceded first against weaker teams compared to a few teams of equal strength and then ask yourself is it more likely to be luck or do we actually change how we play after conceding?
Can you just ask what you specifically want me to answer because looking through your posts I don’t think I’ve ducked anything?
I don’t really know the reason - as said - but I believe it’s a mix of mental/tactics and we look so much better after conceding. If you don’t agree that’s fine but multiple pundits have said it all season about us and we lead the league tables for points gained from losing positions. That to me signifies a large enough data pool to draw some basic opinions, I’m not saying these opinions are the only truth but I think it’s a fair comment to make.
It’s not pedantic sadly, it’s the only way to have a conversation on redcaf without other posters jumping in midway and then quoting me with the ‘shit at the wall’ etc. Not your fault but have seen it too many times and I actually find this conversation about how we are coached v interesting.
I heard from my mate who has a good wifi connection inside the club that Ole's HT speech was inspired by Giggs' final team talk as caretaker manager.
We set up to attack in a pretty similar way most games, we have established patterns of play and ways to work our way into scoring opportunities. I do not believe it changes when we are chasing a game, I believe it is just effective and over 90 minutes will often pay off whether it is in the 1st minute or the 70th. With that in mind and the fact that we are truly competing for trophies and have taken the second most points in the best league in the world over the last two years, how can you support any suggestion that we are awfully coached?
I don't want an argument that says we are not perfectly coached, we aren't. But "awfully", please let me know.
Ole needs to bring in a couple of experienced, top class coaches.
Carlos Queiroz revolutionised the way we played in Europe. We need that level of coach added ASAP.
Carlos Queiroz revolutionised the way we played in Europe. We need that level of coach added ASAP.
He should have pressed the ‘shout’ button every ten minutes and say ‘Show some passion’
I'm gonna be as concise as possible.
Well coached teams can go behind.
When we go behind Ole says stick to the gameplan lads.
The reason for the change in a game can be based on what the other team does or doesn't do.
Your welcome
Just on the bolded bit, I want us to win everything but this is not the level any of us want to be competing for trophies at. PL we're having a decent season, CL was a disaster.
I think your answer highlights, for me, the difference between coaching and results. I have no criticisms of Ole when it comes to getting over the line, it's actually remarkable if you look back at this season the amount of games we have ended up winning where we probably shouldn't or at least made it more difficult for ourselves, I think we pick up way too many draws (largely because of McFred) but our points total should be mid 70's this season which is definitely good enough.
If this thread were about Ole being one of the best coaches at not getting beaten or grinding out wins, everyone would agree. However, this thread has become a bit of a catch all for coaching and that also includes the stylistic parts of what we see - which I think have been very disappointing this season. I have caveated this previously, and still do, with the fact I think Ole might be factoring in covid and looking at this season, the best defensive teams - City, United, WHUM, Chelsea with Tuchel and Leicester are top. None of these, not even City, are swashbuckling attacking teams this season - it's all about getting results, generally being a bit boring with the ball and having less pressure because there are no fans.
I guess in answer to your last line, I'm not the OP so I don't know why he/she used 'awfully' but I do think you can say, we have an inexperienced coaching team and there are definitely some major areas for improvement.
Can the mods delete or lock this thread? It’s really not relevant any more and all it does is serve as a platform for people who know nothing about how to coach a team speculating about our coaching, either supporting or criticizing.
This is the exact point. Since Ole has said that he is not directly involved in the coaching, it is confirmed that his coaches have to take responsibility. Yes they cannot take blame for individual mistakes, but overall the way we play they have to. Look at our corners. Everyone knows it is a high one for Maguire. Why do we never take a near post corner? Every other teams including the top teams do it and score. Look at our free kicks. Every time, Fred is there to dummy but everyone knows it is going to be Bruno. Why can't they variate it? Why do they let Rashford, time and again put his head down and run with the ball until he runs into three defenders and lose the ball? These are the kind of things I have issues with them.
This is doesn't make sense when you factor in the sample size we have.
By this logic, the whole of redcaf goes dark amigo.
Yes and no. Discussing tactics, performances, speculating on transfers, all pretty much fair game. It’s when we get into areas that we cannot possibly know. No one here has watched a training session, listened to a team talk, or witnessed pre-game tactical prep. It’s like arguing whether Ed Woodward prefers boxer briefs or a thong as his undergarment of choice. It’s taking a side based on our perception of the man and the results, not actual objective information.
The Champions League was not a disaster, in fact the only game that I could consider a true failure was the Istanbul game. Other than that we went one for one with 2 very good teams with some good performances and were pretty unlucky to be in such a good group. I will gladly accept any criticism of the Istanbul game but I do not think you can judge a full campaign on that one game.
Again I do not believe you have actually provided any substance into why you think we are poorly coached. Do we not retain possession well, are we not set up defensively, do we not create scoring chances, do we not press effectively ect.
The above is not me saying we do all those things well, for instance I think our press is often disorganised, non committal and ineffective. What you have insinuated though is that we are a defensive team which is clearly not the case. We are quite a balanced team who do try to score at every opportunity.
I will ask again, how exactly can you back up the claim that we are awfully or even poorly coached despite being third last season and second this season in the best football league on the planet?
I agree with this, the balls to Maguire who is fundamentally bad at aiming attacking headers is annoying. I did read a stat once that said that less than 2% of corners directly lead to goals which makes it seem a bit unimportant maybe but yeah definitely annoying.
I mean, surely the argument is that there's a disparity between the results (very good) and the performances (quite topsy-turvy, as evidenced by the number of comebacks) which probably isn't sustainable.
A lot of people said Mourinho's United were poorly coached too - not an outrageous opinion to have considering how disjointed the football was - and they finished second as well.
Have we had 'topsy turvy' performances though??
We seem to be winning a lot of games, and yes our first half performances are sometimes not as good as out second, but I haven't seen a massive disparity between the halves recently.
We seem to gift goals every now and then, but be able to get goals with equal if not more ease, yet this doesn't happen every game, doesn't strike me as 'topsy turvy'.
I think so, yeah. Not to the extent that we did earlier in the season, but still applicable.
Just looking at the last 10 league games, we've picked up 22 points which is a perfectly good return. But those 10 games include utterly tumescent draws against WBA and Palace, and jammy late wins against Brighton and West Ham (arguably Burnley too), to go with the two incredible performances against City and Spurs.
And funnily enough, the two games before that 10-game cutoff just happen to be a 9-0 win and then a 3-3 draw that we somehow threw away by conceding the sorts of goals this topic was probably made on the back of.
I do think the xG helps to remind us of the last 10 games because I can't remember them all in detail. So here it is.
Leeds 0.22 United 1.12
A pretty bad game were Leeds worked their socks off to cancel us out but we probably should have won even though we weren't very good.
United 2.87 Burnley 0. 96
In no way was this a lucky win. xG said it should have been 4-1. For example the xG in the 9-0 win was 5.09
Tottenham 0.92 United 2.10
We were class
United 1.73 Brighton 1.41
Close one and we probably did nick the points here but we still came out on top in the xG
United 1.70 West Ham 0.46
Clear winners by the xG probably should have been 2-0
City 1.28 United 2.11
Great performance and deserved win according to the xG
Palace 0.74 United 0.58
Our worst performance of the season and a draw was the fair result.
Chelsea 1.17 United 0.36
Lucky to get a draw here. No doubt
United 1.73 Newcastle 0.34
Deserved win by the xG. My memory is getting hazy which is why the xG is so useful. It does seem to correlate with what I see myself.
West Brom 0.95 United 0.42
Lucky to get a draw. Another poor performance although they did get an incredibly lucky start with that wrestler goal so a draw is probably fair on the balance of things.
xG has us getting 23 points out of 30. We are by no means the finished article and some of the performances can be a little stagnant but when we have our first 11 out there the performances and the results are worthy of Man United. Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, sessions.....
But the whole point of the forum is bickering about football. Just because you accept that someone has a different opinion than you, does not mean discussing with them is pointless
And why is the caf insufferable after a win?
I think Ole explained the issue a few weeks back.
No pre season and mid week games every week have meant more time has been spent on fitness/ sharpness and rest days than advanced tactical work.
No pre season and mid week games every week have meant more time has been spent on fitness/ sharpness and rest days than advanced tactical work.
(Responded to the wrong post sorry)
I'm trying not to get too furious but I'm turning into a mushroom cloud laying motherf**ker at all people telling us not to be happy when Manchester United win, or that they are waiting for us to lose so they can resume their endless tirades about the manager and players on the caf.
Completely agree. It's utterly embarassing even to see it bumped. And you know - you KNOW that if we are drawing or losing at any point today that it -will- be bumped.
Sorry what? I gave my opinion about something on a forum. Sort of the point of the whole thing no?
I literally could not care less about your "stance, behaviour or position". Carry on thinking what you like.
I think you need to have a beer and a sit down. How could someone living in such a great city be so up tight
Ole is a great manager btw
Some bizarre points on here. Conceding first in a game is circumstantial, as is not winning sometimes and drawing or losing. The idea that conceding in a game you win is symptomatic of bad coaching is quite frankly drivel. What are we, a bottom half championship side who rely on a clean sheet to get anything from a game and have no facility to ‘come from behind’ i.e still win if they concede a goal? The same people would cry about ‘attacking patterns’ if we did what they say and win 1-0 every week. People stick to rhetoric to the point where they make themselves look like they have never followed a season of football before.
I get that, I just don't really think our performances are that topsy-turvy.
Not perfect and we can definitely improve but in comparison to most teams I would say we look very good mostly. In saying it is not sustainable, I think our results have been mostly good with a couple of disappointments for nearly 2 years now. I think if we had a top class centre forward (or if Cavani could start most games) that we would be a genuine title challenger.
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we are ranked 10th for set pieces scored and 2nd highest for set pieces conceded from this year and last year and we were 15th and 9th respectively last year. Its an area for improvement but its not the be all end all, its not like we are relying on set pieces to make up for lack of other goals.
We are also top and joint top for penalties won and scored on top of these. Direct Free kick wise i think the same, there aren't that many people who are great at them. The fred dummy is pointless i agree he never takes them, but whoever you put there its usually rashford or bruno. Bit like southampton, whoevers stood round the ball we all know ward prowse will take it.
Rashfords dribbling is effective, and even when not Ive lost count of the times he drags 3 players in around him, loses the ball but we’ve pressed up, and regain it instantly with a load of space because of the opposition who've bunched around him. Thats the point of players with individual skill they are a handful.
Do you not remember when LVG ‘didnt let them do it’ and we just played subuteo soccer and no one was allowed to do anything other than pass sideways or back?
In summary I dont think cherrypicking some obvious little areas of improvement or personal annoyances in quite a good season is evidence of bad coaching. If it was that bad we would just be down the table and not have been in cup semi finals and a probable final
Basically this, people seem to be providing evidence of as being less than perfect to try and prove that we are an awfully coached team.
Seeing everything, people consider to be an area of potential improvement as an attack is what causes this. This thread has been frequented the most during the dire time when we gave away the lead of the PL table by losing to Sheffield and i.e. drawing against Westbrom. Even back then, it wasn't the particular results, that bugged people, it was the way we played. And this got better in the last weeks, which caused this thread to rarely bumped thread. Just have a look - I would wager two thirds of the posts in here are from people slamming other people just for using the thread to write about their criticism.Freekicks now the new frontier for Ole attacks
That's ridiculous - change the f**ing thread title, if it stings so many people that they call for deleting a thread.
Of course discussing it isn't pointless. Never said that... But seeing the level of vitriol in here doesn't indicate a big level of "acceptance" particularly on one side of the conflict. There is a vibe of "if you critique and you do it in a certain way, something is wrong with you"
I said, the caf is getting insufferable after wins - of course mostly threads like this.
Because just the name of this thread triggers so many people just to come in and lash into other people just for voicing their concerns. How many posters are in this thread actually wanting Ole to go? How many? Maybe 5? But there are at least 50 posters regularly ready to come in, waiting to put everybody who isn't completely convinced ("Don't you dare voicing critique") into the same category of some of the emotional dickheads in the MDT. That sucks. There are around 10 people who voice their concerns very accurately, trying to be as precise as possible, but the "top reds" want to see blood because "who dares to voice concerns when we are sooooo great, how does that look from the outside".
This thread exists because it gets fueled by the Ole In extremists just as much as by the opponents.
I repeat, if it is so challenging for some people to stand the title of this thread - just rename it to something more moderate so we can get over it. If some don't want to hear criticism, fine, don't listen to it. You can just not click on the thread - it is possible, humans have a free will... Asking for thread deletion to take away a place for criticism is ridiculous and shines an ugly little light on social behavior in groups...
I don't think, you will find a strong core of posters who still have the stance that is voiced in the thread title. But there were times, where these concerns were more at place than today. Hallelujah, we left that behind. So the general tune has changed, time for you "ole defenders" to change it too - not every criticism is an indicator for the wish of total rebuilt. The few voices that come here hotheaded in the middle of the game should be responded to, but the level of backlash these days is too much. Too much that it will only cause them to come back even stronger once the pitch results stop making it so easy to be behind the manager.
What's wrong with ours? Does it not have one of those little bathrooms in the back.
*We are an awfully coached first-half team...and classically trained second-half one!
The whole premise of the thread is ridiculous because
1. No one on the Caf knows the first thing about what goes on at Carrington and i bet 99% of the Caf have not even coached football at a kindergarten level
2. Its all incredibly ambiguous, how do you decide whats coaching and whats just the limitations of a player? On the flipside, the term "individual brilliance" have been used so much its basically become a Caf meme at this point.
And dont pretend like legitimate concerns and level headed critique is just lumped together with the knee jerk moaning, because its clearly not. Saying "i think we should do better on offensive set pieces" wont get you attacked by a howling mob. But if you come in here the second we go under in a live match and post "I KNEW IT. HES A FRAUD" you're going to get called out
What do you think, how many scouts do we have around here? Does this make the performance threads ridiculous too? How many CEO level guys are around? But we still judge our executives...
I think, everybody who joins a fan forum knows its limitations. We are fans who try to make sense, to come up with explanations about what we see on the pitch. So where does your confidence come from - saying it certainly isn't the coaching? Are you a coach? No you aren't. You don't have to be to have an opinion. But this goes for everybody. Some people think, its the players, some people think, it is the manager. Most people think, it is a bunch of factors and discuss their extents. How smart is a stance that excludes one option from the get go? To me it would be the opposite of an objective* view.
(*objective in the framework of a fan forum
)Have a look at my very first post. It was in this very thread and it was a statement about this discussion going nowhere as long as some terms are not commonly defined. So I agree with you. But look at it this way: if the people criticizing our "coaching" with these loose terms are somewhat "faulty" - aren't the ole-defenders as well? And here we are at the point from before: all is just opinions. I agree, calling a thread like that screams for abuse - but let's be real here, at some point in time, it shouldn't bug people too much anymore. And the theme of the thread changed over time. Like our football did... Was it coaching that held us back in January? Or was it the players? We have the same players now as we had back then, that would speak against it. Did the manager had the time to coach? We don't know, maybe, probably not. But he decided to employ Pogba differently a few weeks ago, a player he has at his disposal for a while. And he didn't switch him back into the double pivot. Do you want me to ignore that and just say, "yeah I was just wrong. It was downright idiotic to suggest that there could be issues with the coaching team?" ? I guess no, right... So to me it seems there are things to discuss.
And you should get called out. But if 10 hotheaded posts cause 100 other posts, the "calling-out"-part it is a bit out of balance. Some of the most vocal people in this thread are tomaldinho and Foxbatt. Their posts are levelheaded but often receive the same treatment as the ones you named.
I know these discussion suck... But to just push the fault for this to the people who voice critique, doesn't make sense. Not anymore.
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But we're having the same coaches as well.
The thing is fans like to think that what they are thinking is always right - but football games aren't won on paper. Our performances in the initial few weeks was horrible but that had more to do with lack of pre-season. Pogba wasn't getting utilized on LW because he was clearly struggling to keep up with the pace of the game - he had COVID, remember?
The problem with your argument here is that I can use the same argument on City as well, and the conclusion you'd reach is that Pep was the one holding them back in the 1st half of the season. The players are the same, but results started getting better from Jan onwards.
Anyways, to the individual brilliance argument, I think we've had this discussion earlier, but even for individual brilliance to shine through, the manager needs to set his tactics up accordingly.
For example- Mou coached our defence so terribly that we managed to see Dave's shot stopping brilliance that season. Ole has set his team such that we see the best of Bruno, Rashford instead of receiving the ball near the 18 yard box receives it closer to touchline and near the final third. What this means is their FB needs to come up to him, which gives Rashford an opportunity to have free space behind him (the space left by this FB) if he manages to dribble past him (which is a strength in his game). Lindelof's straight long balls are being utilized well, Shaw's press resistence is being utilized well and you see passing triangles forming between Rashford, Shaw and Bruno/Pog quite often (bypassing it means a lot of space is there to be exploited).
The thing is if we look at most of our goals, and most of our goal attempts - you'd notice that they were a result of well coordinated moves - slick passing and good movement - rather than us scoring a goal off say a flukey finish. Hell, let's go over the goals vs Roma - 1st was a result of some slick passing and good movement, 2nd was a result of good play and a great pass to Cavani, 3rd was a result of good movement from Cavani to find him free near 6 yard box (and there was some nice passing before that), the penalty was a result of us getting the ball up fast - good run by Rashford and an excellent pass by Shaw. 5th was from a corner IIRC - great pass and good header by Pogba. Last was a result of some good passing and I agree Greenwood got a bit lucky there.
The point is of the 6 goals, each of the goals was repeatable apart from maybe Greenwood's case (even here, the only thing I'd expect is the goalkeeper to do better here). They weren't any Coutinho for Pool bangers where he'd get one in from 40 shots.
I know. So obviously, there can be multiple opinions about what caused our struggles back then or our upwind lately, right? Who was/is right, nobody will find out but, as you pointed out, because everybody thinks they are right, there certainly is a base to have a discussion about it, isn't? So if somebody comes in here telling you this thread is stupid and we should just delete it because everything is shit, you would feel treated unjust, wouldn't you?
But Ole used him before in the double pivot as well, despite all the indicators that spoke against it. I don't criticize Ole for that, a lot of managers played and play Pogba there, but when Ole was bolt to find another way to bring him into the team without him being in the double pivot, it seemed to bring out the best of him. (A role, that is comparable to his role at Juve so it might have been worth a try earlier) This is the sort of experiment I expect from a manager that has a squad he should maximize the output from. Ole did it and I hope, he will be bolt again in a similar situation.
We don't need to have this discussion. I agree it is more or less pointless as long as we do not define what exactly we are talking about. But while we are talking about it, let me tell you what I think: I think, Ole wants his offensive players to be brave, fast and direct. He gives them more or less freedom to express. I like that and I am sure, the players like that do. BUT when I was talking about patterns of play, about coaching, what I meant was, I felt that some managers provide their teams with a certain structure, the players can rely on when in high-stress situation, preplanned moves, lets call these patterns of play. I am pretty sure, that for example Klopp doesn't take away any freedom from the offensive players but if they don't come up with genius ideas on their own, they have some routine moves to fall back on.
In regards to us, I am not sure, if we have that structure (to that degree) which is not a problem as long as we have our top players perform on a high level. The question is a) could it be the case, that some of our players would benefit by that kind of structure (I think of AWB, McFred, James, maybe Shaw, Martial, Shaw?) because it might decrease the number of decisions they have to take while on the pitch and b) how will one or two injuries effect our play? What happens, if we lose one out of Shaw, Bruno, Pogba, Cavani, Rashford? Even with Bruno, the machine stuttered a bit a from time to time, but when Pogba came on the left, Bruno and Pogba (and the whole team) thrived. Add Cavani to it and we see stuff like against Roma. But what happens, when we have to rest these players? If we rely too much on individuals, injuries and form can hurt us even more. If we implement a certain structure, existing players might benefit from it, new players could be integrated faster. I am not talking about taking the freedom away. I am talking about adding new tools to the arsenal which is needed if we want to play for the big titles. We need to evolve - and we shouldn't just sit and hope that our players evolve on their own.
Maybe that way of approaching the words "individual brilliance" makes more sense, or provides at least something to talk about.
I agree.
Hell, lets not do it
Remember: this thread here flourished in a different time of the year. The time of Istanbul, Westbrom, Sheffield, Newcastle. It is no coincidence, that it is pretty quiet in the last weeks, because we play very very well these days. But lets not act as if we play like that for the whole season. Because we didn't. And back then, the fans were looking for explanations - and one possible explanation was the coaching. Maybe not the most probable one for some folks but what does that matter. Lets discuss it.
I'll just argue on this point as in others, I know we won't ever reach an agreement.
Last season, Pogba was playing in a double pivot with Matic and was doing pretty well. The thing is this season, Pogba started off the season with COVID, so wasn't at peak fitness, and with Matic getting older, we dont have a proper DM. What this means is if Pog is to play as part of double pivot, he needs to play alongside either Fred - a player who lacks positional discipline and commits too early, or McT - a player who is not the greatest reader of the game for a lone #6 and hence he doesn't cut off passing lanes when he should.
I'm quite certain that if we sign a DM this summer, Pogba will go back to playing as part of the double pivot instead of playing on LW
Weird thing... difficult to imagine how difficult it seemingly is, to agree on sentences like
" We need to evolve - and we shouldn't just sit and hope that our players evolve on their own. "
" And back then, the fans were looking for explanations - and one possible explanation was the coaching. Maybe not the most probable one for some folks but what does that matter. Lets discuss it. "
I would have thought that these are pretty unifying statements on a discussion board but I guess it is too important to stay in line with the majority around here.
About your text: I have a suspicion that you are right and that Pog will be deployed in the double pivot again but I hope, Ole learned the (for me) obvious lesson, that the player isn't suited for it. I remember a time where Pogba was quite good, it was in the caretaker phase when he was deployed further up the field. I don't remember any great performances in the double pivot, maybe there were a few ok ones in the phase where Matic was really really good but I never liked that midfield. It was way to immobile, everybody was complaining about us being not able to match other teams in the middle of the park and being way to slow in the center. It surely didn't help that Matic was magnetically attracted to the goalkeeper most of the time while Bruno mostly was magnetically attracted to the opposition goalkeeper leaving Pogba to manage the center on his own.
For me, Pogba is a special player, special in his skill set. But he excels when he is able to roam somewhat freely. Is there hope, that he learns some of Carricks magic for that position some day? Hope is always fine, I wouldn't put any money on it and in my view, the team has enough room for upgrades as it is, no need for adding to the list of issues when not necessary. Pogba is a great player but one, the team has to compromise for. For all his talent, he is always good for leaving his position or losing the ball easily. Thats fine as long as the distance between him and our goal is big enough. These days traditional double pivots won't really cut it anymore - at least not in the big matches against teams where the whole team participates in attack and defense. Having him and Bruno secured by a single DM will be very risky and soon we will be the ones, easily countered against. And the majority then will fault the defense, merry'go'round until we accept, that Pogba currently (and maybe never) doesn't pull/pulls all of his weight defensively. There is a reason, why at Juve, he was partnered by Vidal and a three-man-defense and why France plays another workhorse (addiditionally to his partner in the DP). We look so solid at everything, because McFred gives us the workrate and stability in the center. Pushing as many attacking minded players into a team has never really worked out.
Re the last question, already answered that.
Re the CL exit - Istanbul was horrendous but, and this is a good example to discuss because we are talking about coaching, do you not think that the tactical decision versus RBL (we changed from our usual formation which hammered them to 5 at the back) was a bad move? Contrast the start of the game to how we finished it, once we have shifted formation and then also factor in that they really aren't that good a side - Liverpool were pretty comfortable in beating them. I'm not judging the whole campaign on that but our CL campaign was a disaster.
On your questions, I think we are ok at retaining possession. We certainly could do better. We don't really do it in offensive areas as well as other teams but that's our gameplan so I have no issue with it as it is getting results. As I already said, this part is personal preference although I do think we need to improve on it to be a force in Europe again. Pressing is a major area of weakness I'd agree, there's stats to prove that and I think we all want to see us develop a much more organised press (I think this is why Pert was hired). I also don't think there's anything wrong with being a pragmatic team - I was speaking to someone else on here previously and Ole is pretty similar when you analyse his stats to Conte when he was at Chelsea, we're not defensive like a Mou team (thank god) but we setup with a very solid defensive core and we normally don't overcommit numbers (until we go behind and then look a better team which is my point). This isn't a criticism, I often run into United fans who seem to think the fact we don't normally dominate the ball in offensive areas against the best team is a negative thing, which it isn't.
*team concedes exact same goal defending corners practically every fortnight*
“tHeRe’s NotHiNG WrOng wITh oUr cOaCHiNg. PlaSTiC fANs aRe aLwAYs MoAnInG.
PLaStiCs”
Repeat ad nauseam.
“tHeRe’s NotHiNG WrOng wITh oUr cOaCHiNg. PlaSTiC fANs aRe aLwAYs MoAnInG.
PLaStiCs”
Repeat ad nauseam.