You point is highlighted in full that Shaw began to run more since the acquisition of Telles. This is independent of the fact that Shaw could run to the moon and back and still wouldn't be a footballer. He runs to the opposition 18 yard stop and passes back to the half line about 30 times every match.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Whilst you could see the work he did in training had an effect in how we played, his plan was to pass the ball from side to side and never actually try to create a chance, never try a penetrative pass. Tonight's performance could have been an LVG game to be honest (maybe minus the leaving Demba Ba 1v1 with our keeper).
LVG's system we saw could only ever work with the absolute best of the best attacking players bailing him out every game with individual brilliance.
I think players rise the game. It is about their ego. I will pocket Neymar tonight and be the king for few days... But that same player cant find motivation without coaching for some no name player. It is all about coaching and motivation.
Spat my beer out. Thanks for that! Really needed a laugh
Someone mentioned this on the match day thread, I finally watched Leeds ( the full game ) last weekend, and they lost but the team had a style, a pattern, every piece was aware what their RnRs are. After changing 4 managers I fail to see a style. And no, I dont think its only down to the pieces ( players ) available etc. Its the choice of manager + backroom staff ( and I am not sparing woodward or judge of any blame in this mess but that's for a different thread )
yes and they would have won with the players we have at United. They simply did not have the individual players with any quality. What we do is when our playes get the ball the only attacking intent they have is put their head down and try to sprint with the ball. Or else pass it slowly side to side. Just like Carrick used to do when he played.
We look marvellously coached when our one tactic plays out well, which is when teams come to attack and leave acres of space in behind.
And regarding the points about mistakes, Demba Ba is free because of our shape on a set piece. That's on the manager/coaches.
Pogba gives the penalty away against Arsenal because he's covering an area of the pitch that we've already established he is rubbish in. That's partly on the manager and on Pogba.
The Spurs game, Jose saw what we were doing and exploited our tactics completely. For example, he saw that Shaw had been asked to man mark Lamela wherever he went, often finding him in the middle of the pitch with Maguire trying to cover his side from overlaps. I watched on TV and questioned it numerous times before it was completely exploited. This and the many other issues that were exploited were also on the manager.
There's a video somewhere on YouTube showing the staff of City coaching what seems to be a five-a-side team. The impetus that was expressed in the video was to get them to form shapes and positions to orchestrate patterns of play which the players would routinely do accelerating the process for them to instinctively play the instructions in a real life game through the methodology of muscle memory.
When you consider the lengths the city management explored to better some random players for a non-competitive competition, consider our own team and you'll just see a portrayal of what can only be described as utter foolishness offered by Solskjaer, Carrick, Mckenna and Phelan. These guys might be able to implement the culture of the club but if they can't tactically accommodate this team to be useful aside counter attacking there's absolutely no hope for the future under their leadership.
Right now we are a team with 800 break horsepower, spinning the wheels at every available RPM making the vehicle completely immobile for basic use. All that power and nowhere to put it points to a mechanical flaw design and the mechanics of a team always stems from the management. We can't keep moaning at the players when they are purchased and end up underperforming under useless managers who acquired them. It's becoming a trend and the common denominator amoungst it all is a lack of DOF to compound the interest of both the long term aspects of the clubs success and appeasing the managerial side of things.
When you consider the lengths the city management explored to better some random players for a non-competitive competition, consider our own team and you'll just see a portrayal of what can only be described as utter foolishness offered by Solskjaer, Carrick, Mckenna and Phelan. These guys might be able to implement the culture of the club but if they can't tactically accommodate this team to be useful aside counter attacking there's absolutely no hope for the future under their leadership.
Right now we are a team with 800 break horsepower, spinning the wheels at every available RPM making the vehicle completely immobile for basic use. All that power and nowhere to put it points to a mechanical flaw design and the mechanics of a team always stems from the management. We can't keep moaning at the players when they are purchased and end up underperforming under useless managers who acquired them. It's becoming a trend and the common denominator amoungst it all is a lack of DOF to compound the interest of both the long term aspects of the clubs success and appeasing the managerial side of things.
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We are still catching up on pre-season matches. Things will turn around soon or something like that.
This comes from the coaching staff doesn't it. It is up to them to build a well drilled unit and ironing out mistakes on the training pitch, which at the moment is not happening and something has to give.
Who are those great players? I only see average and inconsistent talented players, some have even been talented for years!
When you're chasing a goal you're typically going to push the line up. There was nothing actually wrong with that. The problem was we were committing bodies without the slightest regard to tactical organisation. Either the players were specifically instructed to do so or they were given the freedom to decide where they wanted to be and they all chose to be close to the attack. Almost like the only instructions these players are being given is to attack in numbers. Neither one reflects well on the coaches.
This has actually been a problem every game we've pushed up high this season. We're giving up and ungodly amount of space and have looked defensively exposed when the other team has broken. Brighton had the same kind of space against us. Problem is we have no tactical continuity to start addressing it. By the next game we'll be playing a deep line
Then fine all players for weeks. People in normal job can’t jus
How are AWB and Maguire good for the long run?
Am beginning to agree on Maguire he seems to have turned into a Sunday league player but I don't think that's down to the coaching.
It could be just a coincidence, but we have the same players who also didn't play well under the last 3 managers. Nah, what am I thinking?
Leicester defence has been much more solid without him. Two times 9th place Leicester centre back for 80m.. HOW?
Myth, the starting lineup under Jose was Lukaku-Sanchez/Rashford-Lingard-Pogba-Matic-Fellaini-Valencia-Young-Jones/Lindelof-smalling. The starters under LVG included Rooney-Martial-Depay-Schneiderlin-Rojo-Blind-Smalling-Young-Valencia. Most of these players have long left the club. I don't know why Keane keeps saying this was the same team that let Jose down. He needs to calm down with his testosterone rage and use his sense of reasoning every now and then
Set pieces are well set drills. That is why signals are given before a set piece. It is very well to take a short corner if everyone is on the same page. AWB was back tracking to his normal position for corners when he got dragged in by Bruno to the action. He did not know what was happening behind him and he should have passed the ball to either Bruno or Mata or even Matic and then get back to his position. Which is the last man in defence.
I do not think the coaches even thought about the absurdity of the situation and thought that players at this level should have the brain to handle this kind of issue. The fact that no other player warned Matic about Demba Ba is also puzzling.
AWB's position and job is not to put in crosses from a short corner. His job is the last man in defence.
I do not think the coaches even thought about the absurdity of the situation and thought that players at this level should have the brain to handle this kind of issue. The fact that no other player warned Matic about Demba Ba is also puzzling.
AWB's position and job is not to put in crosses from a short corner. His job is the last man in defence.
Shaw went up for the corner. Alongwith entire defence. None of the back four bothered to look back and see who was defending in case we are hit with counter attack. Matic was in his position. Shaw wasn't on left side. Not one of other 3 midfielder sensed the danger. Complete utter failure and should never happen in elite level of football. No amount of coaching or manager can do anything about it if your entire team is not bothered about playing football
On the contrary that's exactly what coaching preparation is supposed to fix so we don't have a situation where either CB or CM goes up for the corner thinking their partner will stay back. We just had a situation where everyone likely pushed forward thinking the back was secure. They can't read each other's minds so the coach defines and decides on organisational shape in various tactical situations well before matchday
I'm surprised people are saying a situation that is the very definition of coaching oversight has nothing to do with coaching. Why even have a manager then if the players also have to decide the organisational shape on set pieces
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That's not the point i was making. This is like football 101. Schoolboys follow this on corner kicks. Do you really think we need coaching and management set up for telling our defenders their responsibility. If you look at all the corners we defend, its always the base CM and depending on side, one of our FB is covering for the CB. So obviously management team has a shape in mind while attacking corners. There is nothing Ole or any manager in the world will be able to do if our players just abandon the instructions and start playing freestyle football.
Spurs exposed us with similar long balls over the top. We kept getting caught with Matic (our slowest player) as the last man trying to catch their forward.
Look at the video is it the exact same scenario of the opposition attacking the space behind Matic after we overcommited players on the front. There are some serious structural problems in the team because there is no way a top team would allow itself to be exposed in such situations.
On BT Sport tonight directly after the match, I’m paraphrasing:
Lynsey Hipgrave: Did you see any clear strategy from Manchester United tonight?
Owen Hargreaves: I thought they were more defensively vulnerable.
Lynsey Hipgrave: Did you see any clear strategy from Manchester United tonight?
Owen Hargreaves: I thought they were more defensively vulnerable.
Fernandes having a bad run of form and suddenly he’s “regressed”
This place will take anything to hit Ole and the club with.........
Can't we get that beardy bloke from Wolves in, along with his coaching staff?
Interesting. Given that you are obviously knowledgable on coaching and have clearly been watching their training sessions for a long time, I would love to know what specific coaching drills you would implement for which individuals and groups, and for what specific reasons?
Agree. No pattern to our play. Pick 11 and tell them to just go out and play will never work. Love you Ole but time we got a TOP manager/coach.
No offense, but if it took you one game to identify the patterns of play of Leeds United, how long do you think it will take for PL level coaches to figure out the best way to play against it?
for me they both need to go, we need complete change in the manager, ass man, and all coaches,
Maybe as you say we need a complete clean break.
has to be for me, were both not part of LVG as well or did they both come with Jose? that's a lot of failed times now, think players need change as listening to the same eventually gets boring, SAF changed his Ass manager and coaches quite a bit.
Succinct and correct.
Even if we are trying to play 'old school' we are not doing that well, either. We're antiquated in our ideas and methods, but worse still, have applied no kind of structure for these players to work within the confines of other than go out there and pray something will happen if we're not set up to counter an attacking team.
We can neither play progressive football nor do we have an idea of how to work any kind of complex waves of attack. Not one. That's unacceptable.
So you genuinely can’t see a difference in him since he joined to how he is now?
So feckin boring isn’t it.
Like Ole is telling him ‘listen Bruno, go out there and misplace passes all over the shop, provide the opposition with chances to counterattack’
Fernandes is the same as every other new joiner - they look alright when they arrive and then Ole and the coaching staff get into them and their good form crumbles into dust (see AWB, Maguire and James, too).
VdB has generally looked quite good, but he'll be stinking the place up by Christmas.
Fernandes is the same as every other player not called Messi or Ronaldo. He'll go through good patches of form, and some patches where its not quite going for him. His early form for us was always going to be unsustainable. People need to watch other teams play on a regular basis. All of their key players have periods where they are less effective. This whole 'wait until our coaching staff get their hands on them' line is based on nothing but agenda.
Yes it’s called a bad run of form.
Bruno is well known for misplacing passes and was one of the disadvantages to his game that many people pointed out befote he arrived.
Not like he’s suddenly turned crap it’s simply a bad run of form
Yes, agree.
You have arteta and Lampard who have barely began their managing careers and yet been able to create a clear identity of what they are trying to do and then you have ole who people seem to keep forgetting has been managing for about 10 years and still he has no clear vision or identity for our team.
I'd hate to see him get the sack. Although ,last night the players looked more like they couldn't be bothered than badly coached.
But, I think one of Ole's biggest failings is in the coaching staff. Carrick, Mckenna and a couple of mates from his time in Norway.
I very much doubt Ole is out running every drill and session, these guys have to take some of the flack.
But, I think one of Ole's biggest failings is in the coaching staff. Carrick, Mckenna and a couple of mates from his time in Norway.
I very much doubt Ole is out running every drill and session, these guys have to take some of the flack.