We are an awfully coached team

For me I think we look like a team playing with the handbrake on. Almost as if we are trying to ‘control’ games. The problem is this manifests as caution and lack of tempo. One of the reasons we have gone a goal down is we struggle to control games generally and we also seem to have overreacted to some unlucky early goals against.

Of course what has then happened is we’ve gone a goal down so there are is nothing to lose and all of a sudden we play with tempo and the players running, committing bodies into the box. This is when we’ve scored the goals and turned the games around.

We’ve also generally played much better with Bailly in the team as we feel we can push higher and pressure the opposition knowing his pace can bail us out.
 
How quickly has Tuchel given Chelsea a system and very good structure?

Shows what a really good coach can do. Here we are still making excuses for our management team.
 
RussellWilson said:
How quickly has Tuchel given Chelsea a system and very good structure?

Shows what a really good coach can do. Here we are still making excuses for our management team.
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Yeah feel that is exactly the kind of impact we could get from a good coach but we clearly aren't willing to take that risk
 
The difference that Tuchel has made to chelsea is clear to see within a matter of two games. The side has an identity and style that he has implemented from the of.
The limitations of Lampard and Oles ability are glaring as head coaches.
With a starting position of a large points difference between the two clubs back in January i will be supprised if Utd finish above Chelsea in the run in.
This Utd side is under achieving whether it would be enough to win a title this year I'm not sure but i'm pretty sure the gap with City would only be down to a few points.
We've missed a trick so many times this season with stcking with a happy camp manager (alround decent clubman) rather than a manager with more tactical nouse.
 
OLLY ORANGE said:
The difference that Tuchel has made to chelsea is clear to see within a matter of two games. The side has an identity and style that he has implemented from the of.
The limitations of Lampard and Oles ability are glaring as head coaches.
With a starting position of a large points difference between the two clubs back in January i will be supprised if Utd finish above Chelsea in the run in.
This Utd side is under achieving whether it would be enough to win a title this year I'm not sure but i'm pretty sure the gap with City would only be down to a few points.
We've missed a trick so many times this season with stcking with a happy camp manager (alround decent clubman) rather than a manager with more tactical nouse.
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it’s clear from watching them he’s had an impact but you still need to be careful with new manager bounce. Everyone is buying in at the moment trying to earn a first team place.
 
OLLY ORANGE said:
The difference that Tuchel has made to chelsea is clear to see within a matter of two games. The side has an identity and style that he has implemented from the of.
The limitations of Lampard and Oles ability are glaring as head coaches.
With a starting position of a large points difference between the two clubs back in January i will be supprised if Utd finish above Chelsea in the run in.
This Utd side is under achieving whether it would be enough to win a title this year I'm not sure but i'm pretty sure the gap with City would only be down to a few points.
We've missed a trick so many times this season with stcking with a happy camp manager (alround decent clubman) rather than a manager with more tactical nouse.
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Can you explain their identity and style they have now please I’ve missed most of their games
 
Bastian said:
I'm seeing this more and more, the team being undervalued on here and comparison with City being made. Yes, Liverpool's first XI is a lot better than ours, City's too (and their bench). However, the sign of a good manager is that he gets more out of his team collectively than the sum of the parts.

So far, I see no indication that we have learned anything new. The soak up pressure and play on the counter works sometimes, but there is nothing else that has been properly developed. Take away Bruno's incredible individual productivity and what is the plan?

It really is hard to say that there is some coherent plan.

Has someone identified it?
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Take away Bruno, then our plan is to rely on our GK to keep us a clean sheet :)

because some fans think that’s progress :)
 
You want a different football brand, modern, collective, creative, exciting attacking football? Get Xavi from Al Sadd.

People will say not enough experience, dominating a league of nobodies. Well Pep started his coaching in Spain’s second division, so nothing to brag about there. You have to start somewhere.

Get Xavi a bigger stage and i’m sure he will perform. He’s being touted as the next in line at Barcelona, but people will say he’s not good enough for us.

Everywhere Ole went, he didn’t break anything, yet he inherited this job with a poor coaching CV, and his playing career isn’t legendary either. Only his name and smile are saving him.

Paul Scholes will surely like Xavi here ;)
 
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Beachryan said:
I don't know, I really think its strategic. These guys are professional footballers, they can ping a first time pass under minimal pressure. Well, except Fred - really don't understand how he is so incredibly poor at manipulating a football.

Even watching Chelsea this evening - who were excellent - you could see the structure creating triangles to allow 4 quick one touch passes to get out of trouble. That's the future, that's how you beat the modern press.

I've seen nothing to suggest we're even working on it, sadly.
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I watched the Liverpool vs Chelsea match also and I too appreciated the triangles and one-touch passing. However, I also saw a great match from Kante and Jorghino controlling the middle of the pitch. Our duo from Matic, Fred and McT is not close in terms of ability IMO. I see Kante get the ball in a tight space and I expect him to make a good decision and keep possession because he does time after time. I see one our middies get the ball in a tight space and I'm nervous as I'm sure Ole is too.
 
gerdm07 said:
I watched the Liverpool vs Chelsea match also and I too appreciated the triangles and one-touch passing. However, I also saw a great match from Kante and Jorghino controlling the middle of the pitch. Our duo from Matic, Fred and McT is not close in terms of ability IMO. I see Kante get the ball in a tight space and I expect him to make a good decision and keep possession because he does time after time. I see one our middies get the ball in a tight space and I'm nervous as I'm sure Ole is too.
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Yeah, so it's scary we have virtually no word about getting in a DM then, isn't it? Just Center back, winger, and attacker. We need to knit the play together, then our decent strikers would have a chance. Other teams do not have strikers that only get two shots at goal per game. So when they miss, it's not so desperate and it's not as highlighted. Ours pretty much have to score every time they get a chance because they don't get many.
 
sparx99 said:
God no.
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You confirm the point I am making. His Wigan played attractive football. Won the Cup and got relegated. When to a bigger club and didn't make it. Went to Belgium and got them third place in the world cup.
Ole is doing worse with the biggest club in the world. If we won't hire Martinez we shouldn't be hiring someone like Ole.
 
Looked bloody well drilled today I thought, well done to Ole and the management, got it spot on vs the messiah.
 
I don't t hink today was something new. Some good counterattacks, plenty wasted. Bad passing and giving away possesion easily. Defensively, we were better and more focused though.
 
M Bison said:
Looked bloody well drilled today I thought, well done to Ole and the management, got it spot on vs the messiah.
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These are the matches which Ole is made for. This is like the RBL and Leeds game, perfect for counter attacking football. We already know Ole can do this very well.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
These are the matches which Ole is made for. This is like the RBL and Leeds game, perfect for counter attacking football. We already know Ole can do this very well.
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There were phases in the game where we dominated, and if not for poor finishing we could have had a few more. It’s overly simplistic to put it down to us being a decent counter attacking team.
 
Scored early from a penalty which led to more space in behind. It is nothing new that we are good when we get the lead early. We are best at attacking with space and are able to drop deep with our midfield to stop conceding too many. I don't think this result proves that issues don't exist when we aren't able to score so early. I still think there are tactical issues that restrict us from dealing with this.

We need to prove that in the next PL match. Today was a very good result and performance, but will that work against other opposition as well as it did today?

I still wouldn't say we are quick enough at moving, passing, or good enough positionally to cut through teams that play deep. This is a major deficiency in terms of the team's playstyle.
 
No point bumping this thread. It's always been a train wreck. We looked abysmal midweek and superb today. Its not the coaching that's the issue, it never has been, its the maddening inconsistency of this squad of players.

In recent weeks alone we've won 9-0, beat a brilliant City away, and also put in (arguably) the worst United performance I've ever seen against Palace.

Thats not a coaching issue. It's something, but not coaching
 
We still can't pass the ball consistently well to save our lives which is the standard in most games.
 
M Bison said:
Looked bloody well drilled today I thought, well done to Ole and the management, got it spot on vs the messiah.
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I feel like we have this system down though - if you are foolish enough to attack us, we will be well placed to give you a game and we can sit all day long if needed. We didn't press all over but held a nice line when they were trying to play out from the back and then slowly retreated back a bit over time. I thought this was going to be a 0-0 with Pep again going double pivot but it's like he can't help himself but try to score goals and the peno obviously helped bring them onto us. I honestly think we could have won that by 5+ goals.
 
M Bison said:
Looked bloody well drilled today I thought, well done to Ole and the management, got it spot on vs the messiah.
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That's ridiculous. Just because we won today doesn't mean we were well drilled. Packing your half with bodies and playing on counter is not well drilled. Fans have a funny definition of "well drilled". Its a win, enjoy it, but well drilled we're not.
 
For a little while today (and vs Chelsea last week) we looked like a side capable of more than soaking up pressure and hitting sides on the break. I'd like to see more of it - we're a handful when we're proactive rather than passive.
 
We played well overall but today and most games we need to be a level or more up in our close range passing and control. It's like a hot potato too often, we sort of get the ball back but clumsily give it back. We could make games so much easier for ourselves with a bit more composure.
 
Bilbo said:
No point bumping this thread. It's always been a train wreck. We looked abysmal midweek and superb today. Its not the coaching that's the issue, it never has been, its the maddening inconsistency of this squad of players.

In recent weeks alone we've won 9-0, beat a brilliant City away, and also put in (arguably) the worst United performance I've ever seen against Palace.

Thats not a coaching issue. It's something, but not coaching
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So matches we win is good coaching and matches we don't win is down to players. Surely it is a mixture of coaching and players.
 
It's like being a team that can counter good is a terrible thing. Almost looked at like it's a negative and no football.


Worse stick to beat the manager with.


People assume it's a counter with all bodies behind the ball deep in box but today not so much the case. Pressing and winning ball back quick created a lot of the breaks.

People talk like it's just defending for dear life and getting a loose ball. Whole team was well drilled today and did all aspects well
 
RedDevilzFox said:
That's ridiculous. Just because we won today doesn't mean we were well drilled. Packing your half with bodies and playing on counter is not well drilled. Fans have a funny definition of "well drilled". Its a win, enjoy it, but well drilled we're not.
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Exactly, well drilled doesn't mean just dominating possession. Executing your game plan well is the definition of well drilled side.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
So matches we win is good coaching and matches we don't win is down to players. Surely it is a mixture of coaching and players.
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Its a mixture. Probably leaning more towards poor coaching than players. We are anything but a "well drilled" team. I am sick of us not being comfortable on the ball against a team like City. Consistently giving the ball away when put under slightest of pressure. That's poor coaching, not necessarily poor players.

Mourinho used to win games parking 12 behind the ball. One could argue that his teams were "well drilled". I would call it ridiculous football and would want nothing to do with at United.
 
Defensively wise we were well coached today. Did well on the counter as well, but our overall passing and general play is nothing really to be proud of. Still this plan worked well today so I'll take it. Great win. Still don't think we're a well coached team at all.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
So matches we win is good coaching and matches we don't win is down to players. Surely it is a mixture of coaching and players.
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No the coaching is consistent, the players aren't - as expected because we have a young squad, particularly in attack.
 
RedDevilzFox said:
That's ridiculous. Just because we won today doesn't mean we were well drilled. Packing your half with bodies and playing on counter is not well drilled. Fans have a funny definition of "well drilled". Its a win, enjoy it, but well drilled we're not.
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Yea, it is a good win, but it is more of a win you will see big Sam and Mourinho would praise as a masterclass. There was a lot wrong with that performance, but at the end of the day Ole will get credit for having a good defensive shape with some top class defenders.
 
Amadaeus said:
Yea, it is a good win, but it is more of a win you will see big Sam and Mourinho would praise as a masterclass. There was a lot wrong with that performance, but at the end of the day Ole will get credit for having a good defensive shape with some top class defenders.
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You sound so begrudging that Ole might get a bit of credit for United winning 2-0 at City who were on a 21 game winning streak.
 
It's no secret that when a team opens up and attacks us, we are more than capable of playing. We have some rapid fecking players when it comes to running into space. IMO though, Counter attacking is and always has been the easiest offensive football to coach, it's why managers like Jose, Simeone etc. love it so much - it's a lot easier to coach your players to take advantage of empty spaces etc. The more intricate aspects of offensive football, the quick one touch passing, the movement on and off the ball etc. - that's where we fall well short imo. Even though City lost, they looked another level in that regard than us. Those are also the aspects we are going to need to improve severely in if we want to mount a proper title challenge while this level of coaching remains in England.

It was a great and welcomed performance, especially given our abmysal record against the big teams this season - but City played into our hands. The big 6 have been more cautious against over committing against us this season which is why we have struggled to create much at all in those games but City sometimes just cannot help themselves.
 
Jippy said:
You sound so begrudging that Ole might get a bit of credit for United winning 2-0 at City who were on a 21 game winning streak.
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How am I begrudge when I m giving him credit for having a good defensive shape? I will just enjoy the win, but I know that this is something we have seen in the past before and wont go too overboard in my praise like some poster already are, until I see continuous improvement in our gameplan. What is the point of this victory, if we end up playing like we did against palace in the next few games?
 
Amadaeus said:
Yea, it is a good win, but it is more of a win you will see big Sam and Mourinho would praise as a masterclass. There was a lot wrong with that performance, but at the end of the day Ole will get credit for having a good defensive shape with some top class defenders.
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If you want to define it as a big Sam type set up then it shows how hard they are to break down does it not? Which is why this thread exists in the first place because people think a bit of coaching does it - well City couldn't break it down with the best coach around.
 
It's easy. People who want to put Ole down will say its all down to players when we win and all down to Ole and us not being coached when we lose.
Of course its a mixture of things but it's usual suspects writing usual things sadly.
 
Amadaeus said:
How am I begrudge when I m giving him credit for having a good defensive shape? I will just enjoy the win, but I know that this is something we have seen in the past before and wont go to overboard in my praise like some poster already are, until I see continuous improvement in our gameplan.
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It read like you're saying others will give him credit, implying you don't yourself, particularly given your Big Sam reference.
 
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