We are an awfully coached team

Just a brief note on our 1st team coaching staff and thier experiance.
Mike Phelan. Assistant : Experiance1st team coach 2001 to 2008, Assistant 2008 to 2013.
Martyn Pert. Assistant Coach : Experiance Management Accountancy, Master in Sports Science, assistant Vancover White Caps, MLS.
Nicky Butt. 1st Team Coach : Experiance Development Academy and worked with the under 16s, for 6 months. Appointed January 2021.
Michael Carrick. 1st Team coach. Experiance appointed by Jose as a link to the players.
Kieran McKenna. 1st Team Coach. Experiance worked with under 18s. Joined from Spurs.
Richard Hartis. Senior Goal Keeping Coach. Experiance was with Ole at Cardiff and Molde. Appointed 2019.
Craig Manson. Goal Keeping Coach. Experiance was a youth player with Burnley.
Looking at our coaching staff does the forum think that they can take our 1st team to the next level required needed to be successful in all competitions.
For myself I do not think so.
 
We're not an awfully coached team. I think it's far more worrying than that. I think the way we're coached is intentional. Slow starts in games isn't happening by accident, it's a consequence of a coaching, tactical and philosophical outlook that believes, for lack of a better term, the "United way" is late goals and finishing strongly and that this is what should be striven for. For me it ties into his lack of in-game management. It's deliberate based on the assumption that because we're Manchester United that somehow, like in the past, we're due a late goal; that someone will pull something out of the bag unexpectedly.

The evidence mounts. Clubs go through periods of games where they may start or finish slowly, maybe tail off in the middle. When it happens so consistently over such a long period of time and there's no evidence or sign that it's even being recognised or addressed as a problem then you have to conclude that for it isn't a problem and on the contrary may likely even be part of a tactical plan.

He names an XI, makes pre-determined changes at pre-determined intervals and hopes that because we're Manchester United something will eventually come good in the end. If you accept that's the aim then we're not awfully coached at all; we're brilliantly coached to meet that objective. It just happens to be awful.
 
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stw2022 said:
We're not an awfully coached team. I think it's far more worrying than that. I think the way we're coached is intentional. Slow starts in games isn't happening by accident, it's a consequence of a coaching, tactical and philosophical outlook that believes, for lack of a better term, the "United way" is late goals and finishing strongly and that this is what should be striven for. For me it ties into his lack of in-game management. It's deliberate based on the assumption that because we're Manchester United that somehow, like in the past, we're due a late goal; that someone will pull something out of the bag unexpectedly.

The evidence mounts. Clubs go through periods of games where they may start or finish slowly, maybe tail off in the middle. When it happens so consistently over such a long period of time and there's no evidence or sign that it's even being recognised or addressed as a problem then you have to conclude that for it isn't a problem and on the contrary may likely even be part of a tactical plan.

He names an XI, makes pre-determined changes at pre-determined intervals and hopes that because we're Manchester United something will eventually come good in the end. If you accept that's the aim then we're not awfully coached at all; we're brilliantly coached to meet that objective. It just happens to be awful.
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We ARE an awfully coached team.
 
dave1956 said:
Just a brief note on our 1st team coaching staff and thier experiance.
Mike Phelan. Assistant : Experiance1st team coach 2001 to 2008, Assistant 2008 to 2013.
Martyn Pert. Assistant Coach : Experiance Management Accountancy, Master in Sports Science, assistant Vancover White Caps, MLS.
Nicky Butt. 1st Team Coach : Experiance Development Academy and worked with the under 16s, for 6 months. Appointed January 2021.
Michael Carrick. 1st Team coach. Experiance appointed by Jose as a link to the players.
Kieran McKenna. 1st Team Coach. Experiance worked with under 18s. Joined from Spurs.
Richard Hartis. Senior Goal Keeping Coach. Experiance was with Ole at Cardiff and Molde. Appointed 2019.
Craig Manson. Goal Keeping Coach. Experiance was a youth player with Burnley.
Looking at our coaching staff does the forum think that they can take our 1st team to the next level required needed to be successful in all competitions.
For myself I do not think so.
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we also added Darren Fletcher now.
 
Womp said:
One attacker out of form - fair enough. Two - sure, why not, but the whole fecking attack looking completely clueless and we need to start pointing fingers elsewhere. These are not bad players.
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Fully agreed
 
el3mel said:
I don't don't know how can anyone watch us and claim otherwise, or even mock people saying that. You must be wearing a big red tinted glass to think United is a well coached team or have any kind of a system or formula on the pitch.
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You are right. More often than not we have looked poor, just got good results at time. We wont get any better under Ole
 
Not going to pretend to know anything about coaching, but its plain to see we move the ball way to slowly

I know Ole has praised his coaching staff countless times, but bringing in someone with some top level experience and competence cant hurt.
 
We're still in 2nd place for crying out loud. We've hit a rough patch but we're not in a terrible position. We could have been in 5th and lost our last three games but we didn't. Winning is obviously better than drawing but at least we didn't lose. Some of you really need to take a chill pill and stop with the tantrums and whining.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
We're still in 2nd place for crying out loud. We've hit a rough patch but we're not in a terrible position. We could have been in 5th and lost our last three games but we didn't. Winning is obviously better than drawing but at least we didn't lose. Some of you really need to take a chill pill and stop with the tantrums and whining.
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You wont be saying this when we`re outside the top 4 in a few weeks. Will be eager to see the excuses come then
 
Yeah, I can’t take any positive spin on our performances and results since the turn of the year. Absolutely shocking.
 
Cheimoon said:
Ha, that can mean two things actually. I think they're saying the team is well coached in an awful style. :)

(Too much Captain Obvious?)
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Actually the point is true, we are properly coached team but in a wrong way. I have posted Ole's interview so many times where he said how he wants his team to play and we play more or less in the same way. It has nothing to do with controlling the game, building up play. It's all about win the ball and play forward pass quickly, take risks. We play in the exact same way (minus high pressing all the time), problem is this model is not sustainable.
 
Watching us against low blocks is like watching a man run head first into a brick wall.
When it doesn't work the first time, he runs into it again. When it doesn't work the second time, he runs at it again.
Instead of figuring out a different way, he rinses and repeats this process.
That's Manchester United against bottom half teams.

City just take a stroll around the wall, by comparison.
 
Been saying for over a year now, Ole should have been binned a long time back.

He's fecking clueless in trying to get us out of the hump and we're just delaying the inevitable.
 
stw2022 said:
We're not an awfully coached team. I think it's far more worrying than that. I think the way we're coached is intentional. Slow starts in games isn't happening by accident, it's a consequence of a coaching, tactical and philosophical outlook that believes, for lack of a better term, the "United way" is late goals and finishing strongly and that this is what should be striven for. For me it ties into his lack of in-game management. It's deliberate based on the assumption that because we're Manchester United that somehow, like in the past, we're due a late goal; that someone will pull something out of the bag unexpectedly.

The evidence mounts. Clubs go through periods of games where they may start or finish slowly, maybe tail off in the middle. When it happens so consistently over such a long period of time and there's no evidence or sign that it's even being recognised or addressed as a problem then you have to conclude that for it isn't a problem and on the contrary may likely even be part of a tactical plan.

He names an XI, makes pre-determined changes at pre-determined intervals and hopes that because we're Manchester United something will eventually come good in the end. If you accept that's the aim then we're not awfully coached at all; we're brilliantly coached to meet that objective. It just happens to be awful.
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I don't think that's the case. Ole has said multiple times that we need to start faster.

Not just that, but how often do we finish strongly when we need to? How many of those games where we dropped points to smaller teams did we really go all out for a win towards the end?
Which goes back to us being a poorly coached team. We're not great at creating chances and opening teams up and are too reliant on individual brilliance from a player (normally Fernandes)
 
RkkMan said:
You wont be saying this when we`re outside the top 4 in a few weeks. Will be eager to see the excuses come then
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I'll panic then but for now I won't. We're 6 points ahead of 4th place West Ham. Even though they have a game in hand we would need to have the worst run ever to drop below them. We have been drawing not losing and who's to say we can't beat City ? We're damn well capable and we will sure as hell try. We then play West Ham after City and there's no chance in hell we're letting them move past us.
 
I'd be open to Nagelsmann at this point. Has Leipzig punching above their weight. If we don't get pens and Bruno doesn't score we fecking suck.
 
I dispute the “awful coaching” narrative and I have one, simple argument that I believe trumps any counter.

We don’t have the second best team or the second best squad in the league - yet despite that, we are second in the league.

I think the answer, as is usually the case, is that we lack quality. The slow, sideways passing you see and the laboured attacks aren’t down to “poor coaching”, it’s down to our players lacking that extra bit of star quality you need to break down low-blocks
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
I'll panic then but for now I won't. We're 6 points ahead of 4th place West Ham. Even though they have a game in hand we would need to have the worst run ever to drop below them. We have been drawing not losing and who's to say we can't beat City ? We're damn well capable and we will sure as hell try. We then play West Ham after City and there's no chance in hell we're letting them move past us.
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With our home form, the way we're playing in general, certainty statements like this are silly really. West Ham are in better form than us in 2021.
 
Lentwood said:
I dispute the “awful coaching” narrative and I have one, simple argument that I believe trumps any counter.

We don’t have the second best team or the second best squad in the league - yet despite that, we are second in the league.

I think the answer, as is usually the case, is that we lack quality. The slow, sideways passing you see and the laboured attacks aren’t down to “poor coaching”, it’s down to our players lacking that extra bit of star quality you need to break down low-blocks
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Do you think our squad is better or worse than Leicesters?
 
Lentwood said:
I dispute the “awful coaching” narrative and I have one, simple argument that I believe trumps any counter.

We don’t have the second best team or the second best squad in the league - yet despite that, we are second in the league.

I think the answer, as is usually the case, is that we lack quality. The slow, sideways passing you see and the laboured attacks aren’t down to “poor coaching”, it’s down to our players lacking that extra bit of star quality you need to break down low-blocks
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Couple of weeks, we will be outside top 4 or in 4th position, can people say "Awful coaching" then?

We also finished 2nd in Jose's second season and Liverpool finished 4th, easy to see which team was better coached.

League table won't show which team is better coached, especially when the teams are so close to each other and couple of results will change the position upside down.
 
Judas said:
Oh I'm sorry is the league table final? What a daft comment.
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It's not final but it's a fact that we're ahead. It's not a prediction based on form. We've earned our spot and we definitely did something more than West Ham to get there. Is it guaranteed they'll end the season better than us ? I don't think so. That's just your assumption based on unpredictable factors which could also go in our favor.
 
We have earned our spot, and it's something truly baffling, that this Man Utd team as it currently exists is the 2nd best in England. I'm very happy to still be in that position, but I honestly feel a bit silly praising it almost because of how unconvincing we've looked in maintaining it, yet somehow we have. The PL is in a sorry state.
 
You can see that we are at our limit, we’ve hit second/third and that’s as good as it can get for this coaching team.
 
roonster09 said:
Couple of weeks, we will be outside top 4 or in 4th position, can people say "Awful coaching" then?

We also finished 2nd in Jose's second season and Liverpool finished 4th, easy to see which team was better coached.

League table won't show which team is better coached, especially when the teams are so close to each other and couple of results will change the position upside down.
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We’ve consistently outperformed the individual abilities of our players though over a period of 18mnths. That has to count for something.

Nobody seriously believes we are better than City but for the last year and a half we have been “best of the rest”
 
Lentwood said:
We’ve consistently outperformed the individual abilities of our players though over a period of 18mnths. That has to count for something.

Nobody seriously believes we are better than City but for the last year and a half we have been “best of the rest”
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Yes, nobody thinks we are better than City and we surely rate our players completely different.

Anyways I wouldn't say we are awfully coached, we are playing like how Ole wants. I would say we are wrongly coached team.
 
Shamana said:
Do you think our squad is better or worse than Leicesters?
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Squad or team?

I think we maybe have more options than Leicester in certain positions but then I think they have a good few players who would get in our side regularly.

Vardy is massively underrated, he would be the best forward at United. Ndidi is better than any of our holding midfielders. Kasper Schmeichel is a better GK than De Gea and then we can debate the likes of the CBs, Maddison, Barnes, Pereira etc...

I know what you’re trying to get at but I think Leicester are a well-coached side with “good” players if that answers your question? Perhaps why they are pretty much level pegging with another well-coached side with “good” players and perhaps also the reason both are behind a well-coached side with “very good” players?
 
Lentwood said:
Squad or team?

I think we maybe have more options than Leicester in certain positions but then I think they have a good few players who would get in our side regularly.

Vardy is massively underrated, he would be the best forward at United. Ndidi is better than any of our holding midfielders. Kasper Schmeichel is a better GK than De Gea and then we can debate the likes of the CBs, Maddison, Barnes, Pereira etc...

I know what you’re trying to get at but I think Leicester are a well-coached side with “good” players if that answers your question? Perhaps why they are pretty much level pegging with another well-coached side with “good” players and perhaps also the reason both are behind a well-coached side with “very good” players?
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Maybe yeah. Despite all the money spent a lot of our players are still bang compared to the transfers and wages spent. I'd say that Leicester are better coached though. Despite how cringey Brendan is I think he's grown as a manager and admitted he tried to puff himself up at Liverpool because he was a small fish in a big pond.
 
I think the issue isn't about not being well coached but rather not coaching the team to adopt a attack minded approach especially against some of the big clubs.
 
The only time we played good football under Ole was during football restart last season.

Since the new season began, we have played awful football to be honest.

I mean Brighton should have battered us earlier in the season(that game was an embarrassment).

You can probably name 4-5 good performances and that's it. It's all been mediocre or downright poor.
 
Lentwood said:
Squad or team?

I think we maybe have more options than Leicester in certain positions but then I think they have a good few players who would get in our side regularly.

Vardy is massively underrated, he would be the best forward at United. Ndidi is better than any of our holding midfielders. Kasper Schmeichel is a better GK than De Gea and then we can debate the likes of the CBs, Maddison, Barnes, Pereira etc...

I know what you’re trying to get at but I think Leicester are a well-coached side with “good” players if that answers your question? Perhaps why they are pretty much level pegging with another well-coached side with “good” players and perhaps also the reason both are behind a well-coached side with “very good” players?
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This. Tielemans would also walk into our side in CM.

Our fans just overrate our players, they see us having an elite attack when the reality is Rashford probably doesn't even start for England, Greenwood won't even make the squad yet and Cavani is well past his best. It's not coaching, they just aren't that good.
 
Bobcat said:
We have a better defense and attack (on paper) but their midfield is much better than ours

We also have better depth so all in all we have the better squad, but if both teams put out their best XI its not that much between them imo
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Do we have a better defence? Shaw and Maguire yes. But Schmeichel, Evans, Fofana, Justin, Pereira, Castange would arguably improve the other slots.
 
el3mel said:
I don't don't know how can anyone watch us and claim otherwise, or even mock people saying that. You must be wearing a big red tinted glass to think United is a well coached team or have any kind of a system or formula on the pitch.
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I am tempted to believe that most of these lot are most probably not United Fans. They are just here to wind and nothing more. You cannot genuinely have the club's interest at heart and not be concerned about the football on display. We are being fooled into thinking that this squad is not capable of playing any better. Sadly most people actually believe this.
 
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