We are an averagely coached team

[amolbhatia50k]

Too early but our pressing in the first half was lovely and absolutely relentless.

 

[Escobar]

Liverpool got overpowered. Not sure how often that happens

 

[The Boy]

Liverpool got overpowered. Not sure how often that happens

Fulham did it the other day!

Liverpool seem unable to withstand aggressive well organised pressure at the moment. Brighton did it to them last season as well.

 

[Marwood]

I need to see consistent inprovement in the quality of football before saying the coaching is working.

Last night was great but it was just pure effort. Liverpool were still much better on the ball.

 

[Westerkerk]

I need to see consistent inprovement in the quality of football before saying the coaching is working.

Last night was great but it was just pure effort. Liverpool were still much better on the ball.

Any improvements we see at all this season have to come from pure effort though, it's literally the only thing which can move us forward as a team because if they're not willing to give everything for the shirt then the coaching, tactics, new players etc are all irrelevant. Effort is the foundation of everything and we've not seen any of that for 12 months.

 

[Relevated]

For the first time in many years, we actually looked organised in attack with patterns of play and a sense of unity. No individual player fc anymore

 

[LInkash]

Need to see it against a side in the top half of the table.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

I need to see consistent inprovement in the quality of football before saying the coaching is working.

Last night was great but it was just pure effort. Liverpool were still much better on the ball.

The coaching did work. The players executed the instructions well and were synchronized with each other. Liverpool had the ball, but they did not make anything out of it.

Like i mentioned in another thread, its not just about possession of the ball but rather, its about what you can constructively do with it and without it to win the game. The coaching is working well in that direction.

 

[MiracleInMadrid]

If we play with the same intensity, grit and pace as against Liverpool, we will be a tough side this season.
Still don't think we'll have the quality to be certain of top 4 over a long season.

But keep that fighting spirit, and a lot of good things will come our way. Could paper over some of the cracks, while Ten Hag slowly gets to know the players and oppositions.

 

[Skills]

Big test against Southampton. Their pressing has been our kryptonite for years

 

[spiriticon]

You can't be a brilliantly coached team with 30% possession, but we were brilliantly managed yesterday.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

For the first time in many years, we actually looked organised in attack with patterns of play and a sense of unity. No individual player fc anymore

This individual player emphasis has to stop. No manager sets up a team to just ask them to play in their own style.

A good style of play is always dependent on the skillsets of the players matching each other. The problem we had is that there were differing skillsets in terms of our attackers, resulting in a disjoint team. Worst still we had no defensive balance. What Ole did was to find a middle ground between their attributes, where he used a formation and positions which brought out the best of their attributes. Unfortunately as the team's attributes are not in sync with each other, it resulted in performances where the "individual" effect comes in.

ETH had the same problem with this squad, so he started players who can help to bring a better balance. That is why you see a more organized structure today.

 

[Marwood]

The coaching did work. The players executed the instructions well and were synchronized with each other. Liverpool had the ball, but they did not make anything out of it.

Like i mentioned in another thread, its not just about possession of the ball but rather, its about what you can constructively do with it and without it to win the game. The coaching is working well in that direction.

They had the ball in the box more than any other team since records began.

Just because they only scored the one it's deemed what we did worked. In another game where Liverpool are more clinical up front that result could be very different.

I loved the effort and aggression but its sheer optimism to believe the new coaching methods were responsible. That'll take new players and time.

 

[GazTheLegend]

They had the ball in the box more than any other team since records began.

Just because they only scored the one it's deemed what we did worked. In another game where Liverpool are more clinical up front that result could be very different.

I loved the effort and aggression but its sheer optimism to believe the new coaching methods were responsible. That'll take new players and time.

United could also have been up by 5 goals before half time. I think it's more nervousness that meant United stepped back. I'm sure we had 60% possession until we scored our first goal.

But you're absolutely correct in that United didn't control the game after that point. That's the end game - having that self assuredness to score one and then just keep going relentlessly. Still, it's an improvement by far on being 3-nil down in 20 minutes. That lightning fast start will blow a few teams away.

Got to remember that whatever the pundits might say, Liverpool are still easily the second best team in England. They have had a bad start but they will be near the top by the end. And we beat them....

 

[Dan_F]

You can't be a brilliantly coached team with 30% possession, but we were brilliantly managed yesterday.

What if a team is coached to play deep and on the break? I’m not saying that was the case, but your statement is a bit wrong. You’re suggesting Mourinho’s 2000s teams weren’t brilliantly coached too?

 

[spiriticon]

What if a team is coached to play deep and on the break? I’m not saying that was the case, but your statement is a bit wrong. You’re suggesting Mourinho’s 2000s teams weren’t brilliantly coached too?

These teams had more than 30% possession though surely? I'd expect about 40-50% for these type of tactics.

You can play deep and hit on the break, no problem, but you can't be giving the ball away so much like we did yesterday.

 

[Dan_F]

These teams had more than 30% possession though surely? I'd expect about 40-50% for these type of tactics.

You can play deep and hit on the break, no problem, but you can't be giving the ball away so much like we did yesterday.

The situation probably led to that. Possession stats at half time and before the second goal were probably more like the 40-50%.

 

[Zen86]

And we didn’t even need to buy 11 new players.

 

[Rightnr]

We scored both goals from a ball recovery iirc. First one we lost and quickly got back and the second one was pure, get the ball, quick pass and score

 

[pascell]

They had the ball in the box more than any other team since records began.

Just because they only scored the one it's deemed what we did worked. In another game where Liverpool are more clinical up front that result could be very different.

I loved the effort and aggression but its sheer optimism to believe the new coaching methods were responsible. That'll take new players and time.

I agree. There were too many pockets of space through midfield for Liverpool to pick a pass through.

It's also all well and good Bruno trouncing round the pitch pressing but he's too tactically indisciplined whilst doing it, the same goes for Fred, hence why I wouldn't play them both in the same team anymore.

Great result and obvious signs of improvement in attitude and application but it's still only 3 games and room for much more improvement.

 

[JB7]

They had the ball in the box more than any other team since records began.

Just because they only scored the one it's deemed what we did worked. In another game where Liverpool are more clinical up front that result could be very different.

I loved the effort and aggression but its sheer optimism to believe the new coaching methods were responsible. That'll take new players and time.

In another game where we were more clinical we could have been 5-0 up before they even got into the game. Their best chance of the first 75 minutes was our own player smashing the ball at our goal ffs.

 

[Tiki-Taka]

You can't be a brilliantly coached team with 30% possession, but we were brilliantly managed yesterday.

Of course you can

 

[Red_Aaron]

The first goal was an excellent bit of football
Worked the initial opening, Liverpool shut it down but we didn't panic we recycled then martinez plays a brilliant pass into malacia, great one two and pull back before Sancho sits milner and Allison on their arse. Cracking team goal

 

[Elcabron]

Part of the reason why pool had 70% possession is that we were two goals up after 55 mins. They had to chase the game and give it their all.

If both sides were very clinical last night it would have been maybe 5-3 to united.

 

[spiriticon]

Of course you can

Well, I personally don't believe any team sets out to have 30% possession on purpose as a coached tactic.

The game could flow that way sure, but it's not because the team under the cosh wants it to happen.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Well, I personally don't believe any team sets out to have 30% possession on purpose as a coached tactic.

The game could flow that way sure, but it's not because the team under the cosh wants it to happen.

Peak Mourinho wants a word.

 

[MDFC Manager]

You can't be a brilliantly coached team with 30% possession

Disagree. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Tiki-Taka]

Well, I personally don't believe any team sets out to have 30% possession on purpose as a coached tactic.

The game could flow that way sure, but it's not because the team under the cosh wants it to happen.

No but what you are saying also suggests a inferior team cannot be coached well, defensively for example.

 

[Massive Spanner]

A fecking phenomenal win and my favourite Utd performance for a very long time. But, we used to see epic performances like this under LvG and Ole against the better sides who like to press, only to get shot right back down to earth once we come across a team who sits deep and counters. I'll wait and see what happens with S'hampton before jumping to conclusions with EtH.

 

[flappyjay]

We had 62% possession against Brighton and 66% against Brentford those are the teams that worry me, no matter how bad form we are if a team gives a chance for counters they will almost always get punished our players excell in counters. The way we pressed was beautiful to see though.

 

[M Bison]

We cant be too critical over last night, but i think ETH will look at how we took our foot off the gas after about 30 mins and then the slow start to the 2nd half where we gave the ball away right from the KO. It is difficult to maintain the level of intensity we showed last night.

I was pleased to see us going long and not trying to play out from the back, it was the right thing to do against a team that presses so high up.

 

[Longshanks]

The coaching did work. The players executed the instructions well and were synchronized with each other. Liverpool had the ball, but they did not make anything out of it.

Like i mentioned in another thread, its not just about possession of the ball but rather, its about what you can constructively do with it and without it to win the game. The coaching is working well in that direction.

It was much like the 1-1 draw with them in Oles first season. We were well organised sat deep had a plan to stop liverpools attacks and looked to break with pace and played long and direct to bypass there press.

Perhaps even more similar to the 2-0 win at the eithiad in 20/21 under Ole in that we had spells where we pushed up and pressed high threatening to score more than just the 2. But were pushed back and spent alot of the game defending deep looking for counters.

If this was the other coaching thread there would be complaints about our coach only being able to coach sit deep counter attacking football and it not being sustainable.

 

[Teja]

I need to see consistent inprovement in the quality of football before saying the coaching is working.

Last night was great but it was just pure effort. Liverpool were still much better on the ball.

You can't be a brilliantly coached team with 30% possession, but we were brilliantly managed yesterday.

They had the ball in the box more than any other team since records began.

Just because they only scored the one it's deemed what we did worked. In another game where Liverpool are more clinical up front that result could be very different.

I loved the effort and aggression but its sheer optimism to believe the new coaching methods were responsible. That'll take new players and time.

These teams had more than 30% possession though surely? I'd expect about 40-50% for these type of tactics.

You can play deep and hit on the break, no problem, but you can't be giving the ball away so much like we did yesterday.

I agree with all these but I think we intentionally lumped it forwards without trying to play through the middle at all and for a single game where we desperately needed points, I think it's fine.

A little bit of composure in the middle would've changed the game but we chose not to risk it and got the result. If we tried it more consistently I think we would've got caught the way Bruno was caught by the high press and almost gave a goal away as a result.

 

[Marwood]

The situation probably led to that. Possession stats at half time and before the second goal were probably more like the 40-50%.

We stopped looking after the ball after about 20 mins. From then on Liverpool were dominant in that sense. It's why Martial was brought on at half time.

I'd love to think it was the situation butmore likely the historical problem we have at moving the ball when under pressure.

 

[Trex]

I'll like to see us do it in games were we dominate possession, cut out the counter attacks against us and the errors in possession. Good Martial is back he'll be crucial in linking play together.
We'll need to maintain the tempo and show confidence playing out from the back.
I think yesterday possession being 30% had much to do with us taking the lead and Liverpool having to come right at us, but I don't mind having less possession against Liverpool and City at least for now especially when we still created the better chances.
In the "small games" we'll need to do go for absolute domination, possession, chance creation and crucially goals.

 

[Trex]

I agree with all these but I think we intentionally lumped it forwards without trying to play through the middle at all and for a single game where we desperately needed points, I think it's fine.

A little bit of composure in the middle would've changed the game but we chose not to risk it and got the result. If we tried it more consistently I think we would've got caught the way Bruno was caught by the high press and almost gave a goal away as a result.

Madrid used the same tactics in the first half of the UCL final against Liverpool, I remember watching that game and wondering why Madrid wouldn't use their midfield.
Its because Liverpool are so good at counter pressing you'll be running straight into a trap.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Liverpool got overpowered. Not sure how often that happens

Never when they are at full strength. Regularly when they are decimated. Doesn't take away as it is a derby and they had competent experienced players out, but it does happen when they have had similar injury crises in the past

 

[davidmichael]

Last night was a perfect example of what happens when you put good players that play as a team and that will press with pace at the front and can pass from the back over big names and superstar individuals.

If we hadn’t paid £80 million for Maguire he wouldn't play at all, if Ronaldo wasn’t a massive name or on the wages he’s on he wouldn’t start and if De Gea wasn’t on a massive wage he wouldn’t start.

You put a progressive coach who’s tactically sound with a team that’s hungry and works as a team and you have a winning formula, look at the players Klopp has used over the past few seasons in Henderson or Milner or Mane or Firminho or Robertson and you see it’s about the collective and not about star names.

 

[Sylar]

Dropping Maguire, Shaw and Ronaldo

Making a midfield of Eriksen, mctom and Bruno get the better of an admittedly weak Liverpool midfield.

Trusting Dalot could be big for his season

The sub of Martial that led to the second goal is great proactive reading of the game .

The first two games were bad but clear problems have been identified and hopefully fixed. Look forward to how our team looks with Tony as the spearpoint this weekend.

Thinking about it, our first pre season game didnt have Maguire and Ronaldo and our team looked better. Yesterday was the same.

ok small sample size, but I think we do play better with the better movement up top that we saw, and of course the defence being a bit more mobile.

 

[Red Shorts]

This thread is coming to fruition!