Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.

[Sky1981]

I don't want to sound like a broken record but genetics should not be a big excuse for a paid professional with all the sport science. As a PT, I have seen people who thought they had terrible genetics getting super fit with easily accessible support. The difference is that they had to work extra harder than the average Joe. I have known amateur athletes on a small pay, designate a sizeable chunk of their wages to keeping fit and being in top shape. Some had to spend money to get the best treatment to get rid of habits like smoking, drinking and diet control, and these guys have no dream of playing with the big boys.

Every athlete, especially the highly paid ones have a responsibility to themselves and owe the fans to do ALL they can to keep fit all year round. If you know that your playing career will last at most 20 years after which you will retire and do whatever you want with your body, is it not worth it while earning millions per year. People poke fun at Ronaldo for his looks and regime but he is doing ALL he can to keep in tip top shape. I think in the Euros, he has clocked the most minutes before the Euros started, yet he is still clocking serious miles up till the Euro final.

I wrote an article a while back on how Messi, as good as he is, has a super strict diet, changing it every season. Even Aguero said that Messi suggested his diet and personal routine to him and he took it on board. I also remember Craig Bellamy doing the same thing, he hired a personal fitness coach that followed him every where, even to the training ground at City. No wonder he tore us apart and Fergie wanted to sign him. Giggs and Rio also took up yoga at their peak.

My friends and I have considered Rooney's physique for some years and while it may be good enough to pass the minimum fitness tests he could have done more to prolong his career definitely. He is not the only player to have this "genetics" issue, neither is he the first to have clocked up such body mileage or played as many games so I don't think it is good enough to put in the "Rooney excuse box". I know that they have personal lives but @ £300k/w, spending £30k/a foro a personal trainer to keep you on top is not too much.

Ps. Has anyone seen the beef'd up Lingard lately?

Because he's our golden boy. He doesn't need to. The media loves him, england fans love him, our own fans love him... Once

Messi is an argentinian kid with everything to lose if he didn't make it, ronaldo didnt get that privilege of being played regardless of of form, and most athletes don't have the luxury of a select lucky few (casillas, rooney) who's always guaranteed a spot in the team whatever they did. I'm not saying rooney is utter toss pot, but he doesn't need that extra motivation and sacrifice.

Perhaps he just won't push himself that extra bit due to complacency, perhaps he thinks he's too good to fail (most pro athletes didn't always realize their time is up, the brain gets quicker with experience but the muscle gets slower with age)

Personally i dont have to know why or how that happens. Take away romantism football is a simple business. You perform or you'll be replaced (either directly sold or go down the pecking order) everything else is just politeness of the replacement process.

The best knows no sentiment, ronaldo/messi don't give a flying feck that they're already on superhuman level, they just keep pushing themselves to be at the top rpm and never take anything for granted. We can still see messi/ronaldo developing new areas of their game (playmaking, etc).

With rooney he never goes beyond his 23-24 years old peak when he has the world on his feet for a while.

 

[dichinero]

I'm sure he could have done more but then I'm sure that's the case for most footballers.

Rooney has played about the same number of games as Craig Bellamy did upon retirement. About the same as Beckham did before semi retiring in America. More than Gary Neville did when he called it a day and about the same as Scholes. More than Vidic and almost as many as Rio.

You'd probably consider some of those to be top professionals yet their bodies could no longer keep going at the equivalent games to what Rooney has now clocked up.

He's simply reached retirement age in terms of games played.

I totally agree but his fitness and physique has been in question for some years now. At least 5 years IIRC.

 

[Dobbs]

I totally agree but his fitness and physique has been in question for some years now. At least 5 years IIRC.

Clearly there have been periods when he could have been fitter. I don't think he's shortened his career by doing that though. The stats tell us he's just reached the number of games that usually means retirement.

I think Fabregas is suffering in a similar way.

 

[Miscemayl]

What about Carrick? With rooney schwei and smalling as vice captains.
I can see Carrick starting a few games if he stays fit

I guess, but probably not enough justification to drop Rooney as captain.

I would personally prefer DDG but I guess Jose won't want to upset Rooney before they even kicked a ball.

 

[AdamAdams]

Jose states clearly that he won't be using Rooney as a 6 or 8.
So that's Rooney not playing in a 2 man midfield but maybe as the attacking midfielder in a 433 or central of 3 in a 4231. Think he's going to be at best 3rd choice behind Zlatan and Rashford as the 9, so its going to limit Rooney's position / playing time. Jose could have an agenda making this public in his first interview to test Rooney's attitude towards not being an automatic starter and making it clear that he's not going to be played anywhere just to keep him in the team.
If it wasn't for the mega contract he's got, I think Rooney could be looking to get out but he's not going to get the same cash elsewhere.
Jose saying all the right things and a total breath of fresh air, a great sign for the season ahead....can't wait for it all to start.

 

[ti vu]

I have feeling rooney Will be our torres when mourinho manage Chelsea.. He will make us fail the title in the first season..

We sell him in 2nd season buy main striker from atletico (griezmann) and won the epl title in 2nd season..

. No one is this bitter to refuse a title win.

We're ready to give Mourinho money to get a proper forward, not forcing player on him.

 

[sunama]

He scored 15 goals last season.

Lets talk about league goals.
I have no interest in scoring against teams like Brugge or any other team of part-timers.

He scored 8 league goals last season.
He was the 26th highest scorer in the league.
The season before, he scored 12 goals.
Total in 2 seasons: 20 goals.

Last season alone, Vardy scored 24.
Vardy a man some fans think is not good enough to play for MUFC, yet Rooney who produced 33% of the goal tally of Vardy, plays every damn game!

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Lets talk about league goals.
I have no interest in scoring against teams like Brugge or any other team of part-timers.

He scored 8 league goals last season.
He was the 26th highest scorer in the league.
The season before, he scored 12 goals.
Total in 2 seasons: 20 goals.

Last season alone, Vardy scored 24.
Vardy a man some fans think is not good enough to play for MUFC, yet Rooney who produced 33% of the goal tally of Vardy, plays every damn game!

The fact you've gone out your way to quote me on something you've seen someone put in another thread worries me.

P.S. When Vardy achieves what Rooney has achieved throughout his career, then you can quote me.

 

[psychdelicblues]

.

OK guys, lets have this out!

Quiet a few posters seem to feel that Rooney can't become a midfielder, hasn't got the abilities of a midfielder and is terrible at passing the ball. Recently, I rebutted a poster in another thread who said that he can't pass, he can't dribble and has no vision to be a midfielder. For me, he has now for three games dominated the middle area of the pitch (FA Cup Final and two England games at the Euros), spraying accurate passes around the field and occasionally taking a pot shot at scoring. With each game his confidence and influence is growing and today (versus Wales), he added a new dimension to his armoury by making excellent crosses from corner-kicks and free-kicks.

His command of the middle of the park was so impressive that established English midfielders were all second-rate to him. He was MOTM vs Russia and arguably vs Wales too.

What does the forum think?

Mourinho has spoken , this is not even a meaningful debate , this thread should be locked.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

Lets talk about league goals.
I have no interest in scoring against teams like Brugge or any other team of part-timers.

He scored 8 league goals last season.
He was the 26th highest scorer in the league.
The season before, he scored 12 goals.
Total in 2 seasons: 20 goals.

Last season alone, Vardy scored 24.
Vardy a man some fans think is not good enough to play for MUFC, yet Rooney who produced 33% of the goal tally of Vardy, plays every damn game!

In fairness you'd never think there was only 15 months between the 2, Vardy moves like he's 15 years younger than Wayne.

 

[clarkydaz]

that quote by 32Devil;

'command of the middle of the park'
'new dimension to his armory'
'Established England midfielders second rate to him'

How'd the Iceland game go down after this?

 

[032Devil]

that quote by 32Devil;

'command of the middle of the park'
'new dimension to his armory'
'Established England midfielders second rate to him'

How'd the Iceland game go down after this?

It only goes to highlight:

- how bad the present 'Best of the Best' English middle-field is truly awful if Rooney, a striker, can outshine them
- that Rooney, when committed, is not only a good striker but also a good midfielder and defender
- that great to good managers like Van Gaal and Hodgson used him in midfield and a national debate on the subject was split on this decision
- and that most posters on this site have such an anti-Rooney view that one of the world's greatest managers, Mourinho said:

“I am quite surprised with so many question marks around this guy,”

“I trust him a lot. I think he’s going to be a very important player for me and no problem for him.”

“In football there are many jobs but the one that is more difficult to find is the guy who puts the ball in the net,” Mourinho said. “It is normal that a player at his age changes a bit but there is something that will never change, which is the natural appetite to put the ball in the net.

“Maybe he is not a striker any more. Maybe he is not a No9 any more but, with me, he will never be a No6. He will never be somebody playing 50 metres from the goal. You can tell me his passing is amazing. Yes, his passing is amazing but my passing is also amazing without pressure. There are many players with a great pass but to be there and put the ball in the net is the most difficult thing to find. So, for me, he will be a nine or a 10 – a nine and a half maybe – but not a six and not even an eight.”

 

[Android1974]

“… So, for me, he will be a nine or a 10 – a nine and a half maybe – but not a six and not even an eight.”

Mourinho hesitated a lot, made a pause, before saying the last part: “… not even an eight”. He only said it once and I don't think he's that definitive about it. I guess he could still use Rooney in the most advanced midfield role of an hypothetical 4-3-3, while saving face.

 

[032Devil]

Mourinho hesitated a lot, made a pause, before saying the last part: “… not even an eight”. He only said it once and I don't think he's that definitive about it. I guess he could still use Rooney in the most advanced midfield role of an hypothetical 4-3-3, while saving face.

How do you know?

He had just got the job he'd been wanting for years, perhaps his dream job. He was giving his first interview to the world's press and he was being measured and selective about what he was saying BUT he knew what he was saying - even if he only said it once. If I said that I don't like tomato sauce then I don't have to keep repeating it to be certain about it.

Mourinho said he (Rooney): I trust him a lot."

What more do you need.

 

[attack attack]

How do you know?

He had just got the job he'd been wanting for years, perhaps his dream job. He was giving his first interview to the world's press and he was being measured and selective about what he was saying BUT he knew what he was saying - even if he only said it once. If I said that I don't like tomato sauce then I don't have to keep repeating it to be certain about it.

Mourinho said he (Rooney): I trust him a lot."

What more do you need.

And what options did he have to say if he had doubts?

"I am not sure that he still has much to offer" maybe more truthful but not the way to start your first day.

The proof will be seen in his selections later in the season. For me if he is still starting regularly we will still be underperforming.

 

[032Devil]

And what options did he have to say if he had doubts?

"I am not sure that he still has much to offer" maybe more truthful but not the way to start your first day.

The proof will be seen in his selections later in the season. For me if he is still starting regularly we will still be underperforming.

If one thing is certain is that Mourinho is ruthless when it comes to making key decisions. Look at how he has handled schweinsteiger.

Mourinho rates Rooney. Why can't you accept that and live with the truth until the manager changes his mind.

 

[Pexbo]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

Amen brother!

 

[7even]

I rewatch the game against Leisterer yesterday evening. Full 90 minutes and my focus was Rooneys performance.

Brutal truth. He was by far our worst player. Not even debatable.

I agree with those of you who wants to drop him to the bench. Better now then to late.

Our best eleven players, including Pogba and Zlatan, is much more suited to a 433 formation. It would be a waste of money to use Pogba in a defensive role behind a underperforming number ten. Mou needs to set the tone immediately and only put our in form players on the pitch. We don't have time to let Wayne Rooney find his form when underperforming.

#wayneout

 

[attack attack]

If one thing is certain is that Mourinho is ruthless when it comes to making key decisions. Look at how he has handled schweinsteiger.

Mourinho rates Rooney. Why can't you accept that and live with the truth until the manager changes his mind.

He used to rate Rooney.....I can accept that. What i won't accept is his continued selection when it is obvious that he does not deserve his place. I hope that Mourinho's will make the right decisions and leave past form and sentiment out of his selections.

 

[attack attack]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

Agree with most of that except it remains to seen how much of a superstar ibrahimovic still is.

Wouldn't be keen on a potato dinner in you house either!

 

[Skills]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

So much this.

 

[Carlsen19]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

nailed it.

 

[IBleedRed]

IF he can handle being rotated with Ibra, score some goals, and be a positive influence on the squad and the media then he is more than welcome to stay.
If he thinks he should be an auto starter or starts to act like a little bitch to the other players and media, because he was dropped, then he can feck off.

 

[MDFC Manager]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

Brutal, but fair.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Mourinho rates Rooney. Why can't you accept that and live with the truth until the manager changes his mind.

I personally do not believe every single thing he says as fact.. and I think he said that about Rooney for two reasons. One, he didn't want to risk alienating or upsetting the fans, because the club has millions of fans outside of redcafe, many of whom still love him. And two, he wants to take on the challenge of actually making Wazza look good, who doesn't necessarily need to be instrumental but if he can figure out a way to make him produce and have a decent season, it would look really good for him. But deep down I think he knows Rooney is getting past his sell by date.

 

[El Zoido]

There's no chance Mourinho can't see what a liability Rooney is now. I'm convinced he'll be phased out of the side, Jose knows he has a delicate situation on his hands so he'll try and convince Rooney that taking a step back is the best thing for the club. That said, Jose hasn't exactly been one for subtlety in the past and he might see one Rooney mistake as his opportunity to feck him off.

 

[Sultan]

Like other players, I'd refrain from criticising Rooney at this moment based on previous 3 seasons.

 

[Dobbs]

Like other players, I'd refrain from criticising Rooney at this moment based on previous 3 seasons.

You can't just discount a full three seasons worth of football.

No manager has the ability, if that's the right word, to demolish a players performance for that length of time.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Like other players, I'd refrain from criticising Rooney at this moment based on previous 3 seasons.

Are you suggesting he eventually came good in the previous 3 seasons? He was consistently played despite being awful and eventually had one or two half decent performances and somehow that warranted him playing all those games where he was crap. His time here should be done, we cannot be carrying a dead weight like Rooney until he hits form, it will cost us the title and maybe even top 4.

 

[Catt]

It's such a fecking annoying situation. On the one hand we have our new superstar striker, our wonder kid left forward, new right attacking midfielder and super star box to box midfielder. All of whom would excel in a 4-3-3.

Then we have this absolute turd of a potato who can only play as a support striker. A positon that all the other players don't benefit from which forces us to play 4-2-3-1 or similar and changes the roles of everyone else. The sooner he's on the bench and out of the side the better.

You're bang on.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Like other players, I'd refrain from criticising Rooney at this moment based on previous 3 seasons.

Sorry, but that's an extremely flimsy excuse - he's been pampered to the heavens by both his previous managers and pretty much allowed to play wherever and however, regardless of form and fitness. It's not like he's been frozen out and not given chances!

 

[ZAGREB RED]

It's a case of wait and see how he goes as the No10/9, but if he continues with his largely indifferent and lethargic form of the last couple of seasons, it will be interesting to see how whether Mourinho persists with him/moves him/drops him. Hopefully he will have a new lease of life and this argument will be irrelevant.

 

[Salfordlad70]

Rooney the footballer, let's hope Jose says no.

 

[entropy]

As much as I like to think he is past it, I think Rooney will do lot better upfront under Jose than he did with LVG.He"ll enjoy working in tandem with Ibra. He will have more freedom and hopefully that'll work in our favour.

 

[Rada]

As much as I like to think he is past it, I think Rooney will do lot better upfront under Jose than he did with LVG.He"ll enjoy working in tandem with Ibra. He will have more freedom and hopefully that'll work in our favour.

Stop it

 

[Winrar]

he was horrendous yesterday.

I'll come across as callous, but if he continues this brutal form I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he's dropped/sold to china within a year (and I actually hope it happens if he continues to be this bad). he's done a lot for this club and a club legend but there's no sentimentality to be spared in top level football.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

The arrival of Pogba is the first step in phasing out Rooney, because we now (finally) have a new face of Manchester United, the franchise. That's been Rooney's most significant contribution to the club in the past couple of years.

We still need Rooney to break the goal scoring record, as that'll create a whole lot of fanfare. But once that's done and dusted I expect the club to start directing all their marketing efforts towards other players, and Rooney's role will be diminishing both off and on the pitch after that's done.

I expect us to have established a quite firm first eleven that doesn't feature Rooney some time after Christmas.

 

[Sultan]

Sorry, but that's an extremely flimsy excuse - he's been pampered to the heavens by both his previous managers and pretty much allowed to play wherever and however, regardless of form and fitness. It's not like he's been frozen out and not given chances!

You can't just discount a full three seasons worth of football.

No manager has the ability, if that's the right word, to demolish a players performance for that length of time.

Are you suggesting he eventually came good in the previous 3 seasons? He was consistently played despite being awful and eventually had one or two half decent performances and somehow that warranted him playing all those games where he was crap. His time here should be done, we cannot be carrying a dead weight like Rooney until he hits form, it will cost us the title and maybe even top 4.

Not many players have done well under Moyes and LvG, including proven great players such as RvP, Di Maria, Nani, Bastian, and a host of others. Lets wait and see what happens over the next few months.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Not many players have done well under Moyes and LvG, including proven great players such as RvP, Di Maria, Nani, Bastian, and a host of others. Lets wait and see what happens over the next few months.

I don't disagree, but when you watch Rooney for the past 2-3 seasons, he looks physically shot. That's the big issue I think people have with him.