Wayne Rooney, The Midfield General? Mourinho Says No.

What should we do with Rooney ?

  • Keep him as a starting XI player

    Votes: 23 6.7%
  • Sell him

    Votes: 221 64.8%
  • Keep him as a squad player

    Votes: 97 28.4%

  • Total voters
    341
  • Poll closed .
You are bashing the so called delusional fanboys for thinking Rooney will be a forward now. And praising Mourinho for saying Rooney wont be a midfielder under him.

Are you conveniently leaving out the rest of what Mourinho said or did you not see the entire conference ? He praised Rooney for his hunger of goals and said he needs to play much closer to goal. He never said he would drop Rooney.

In your own words Mourinho was sounding as a delusional Rooney fanboy more than anything else. He didnt break Rooney down as a midfielder or as a player, he just said he is much better as a forward and just set us up for a start of the season with Rooney on the 10. That should be clear as day by now.

First, the delusion I referred to was about Rooney's reinvention as a midfielder. Not going to happen, obviously.

Second, Mourinho wouldn't say that he has doubts about Rooney. It would be completely pointelss to humiliate the captain of the team. Of course, he will give him a chance. Rooney deserves to get another chance because of what he has done so far and because he's captain. But I and many others on here think and predict that he won't be good as a No 10. He lacks the tools to succeed in such a role. And I'm sure Mourinho knows it well. So, yes, it is a delusion also to believe that Rooney can lead United to success by being United's No 10. Won't happen and if Mou persists with Rooney, he will end up like Moyes and LVG.
 
“With a system of two midfield players and one number 10, I demand a lot from a number 10.

“I like a number 10 to score goals. I like a number 10 to get in the box. I like a number 10 to score goals like Oscar's against Maccabi Tel Aviv.

“A number 10 for me is an eight-and-a-half when the team loses the ball, and the number 10 is a nine-and-a-half when the team has the ball.

“Who is my perfect number 10? Wesley Sneijder and Deco. Because they could defend, get in the box and finish goals? Yes.”

Off to the Sneijder thread.
 
Hah, I loved what Mourinho said about Rooney:



Looking back at the early parts of the thread, quite a few posters called it too, though I suppose it's not a surprise either. Still think you all are better off selling him.
I too think we're better off selling him and starting our attack from scratch. But it's not hoing to happen for at least a year.
 
Rooney will be nowhere near being a starter in Jose's team after a couple of months. He won't keep better players out of the team because of past glories. I'm delighted to hear he won't be played in midfield. Mourinho basically said he'd be as good as Rooney in midfield.
 
Hah, I loved what Mourinho said about Rooney:



Looking back at the early parts of the thread, quite a few posters called it too, though I suppose it's not a surprise either. Still think you all are better off selling him.

Who would buy him or take on his wages?
 
Maybe he is not a No. 9 anymore but he will never, with me, be a No. 6. He will never be 50 metres from the goal.”

And that’s that. With just one quote, Jose Mourinho hammered the final nail into the coffin of the frankly ridiculous notion that Wayne Rooney could be transformed into a Premier League midfielder. No openings for debate. No beating around the bush.

“For me, he will be a No. 9 or a No. 10, or a number nine and a half, but with me he will never be a No 6, not even a No. 8”.

Closure.

Except, with Mourinho no doubt hoping to lay to rest the numerous questions over where Wayne Rooney can be the most productive, he has in fact opened up more questions regarding the future, if any, Rooney has at Manchester United under Mourinho.

By categorically ruling out Rooney’s impact anywhere on the pitch besides the attacking third, he hands a monumental level of pressure on Rooney to once again find his goalscoring touch—a touch that has been slowly abandoning him over the previous seasons.

Goals have been increasingly difficult to come by for Rooney these previous seasons, so much so that the striker himself admitted he had always “expected to become a midfielder” and hoped to emulate United great Paul Scholes. Small difference of course being that Scholes spent his entire career carving himself out as one of the greatest midfielders of the Premier League era; a drop back within a midfield system was always going to be easier for a Scholes than it ever would be for a Rooney.



The declaration of his intended path into midfield cries arrogance. An arrogance of defeatism that the day his goalscoring exploits desert him he could freely move into midfield, at the expense of a genuine midfielder, and pick up the ball-winning and playmaking responsibility in the most seamless way possible.

He couldn’t.

You could make the case that Rooney had to play. In what was a disastrous spell in charge for Louis van Gaal, permanently dropping the captain, the highest wage earner, and heir to the highest goalscorer in Manchester United’s history crown would have been career suicide. Once he began struggling in front of goal, and with the emergence of a genuine goalscoring talent in Marcus Rashford, moving him into midfield could be seen as a masterstroke rather than a desperate attempt to make Rooney into something he never was or would be.

Going into the 2016-17 season where does this leave Rooney?

Mourinho has clearly stated he sees his position up top. He will, in Mourinho’s eyes, be considered for a role at No. 9 or No. 10. Dependent on the system that Mourinho settles on this could see him leading the line as a sole striker yet with the arrival of Zlatan this seems unlikely. Therefore, presuming Mourinho lines his team up using a 4-2-3-1 it will see Rooney as part of the creative triple threat behind Ibrahimovic. At the expense of who? New signing Henrikh Mkhitaryian? Anthony Martial?

Can Rooney really stamp his claim on an automatic starting place under Mourinho?

In front of goal Rooney’s clinical finishing has been slowly deserting him. In the 2014-15 season, 33 games saw Rooney score 12, and assist five; 2015-16 saw his goalscoring drop to eight goals in 27 games. A goal every three games from your main striker will not be winning you a title any time soon.

What Mourinho’s comments may have started is a motion of events that will see the phasing out of Rooney as a Manchester United player. And if you cannot be sure of a player’s best position as he moves into his 30s, then this may just be the best decision Mourinho makes as manager.
 
First, the delusion I referred to was about Rooney's reinvention as a midfielder. Not going to happen, obviously.

Second, Mourinho wouldn't say that he has doubts about Rooney. It would be completely pointelss to humiliate the captain of the team. Of course, he will give him a chance. Rooney deserves to get another chance because of what he has done so far and because he's captain. But I and many others on here think and predict that he won't be good as a No 10. He lacks the tools to succeed in such a role. And I'm sure Mourinho knows it well. So, yes, it is a delusion also to believe that Rooney can lead United to success by being United's No 10. Won't happen and if Mou persists with Rooney, he will end up like Moyes and LVG.

I wouldnt go that far as he'll end up like Moyes or LVG due to him playing Rooney, more to it than that of their failures... I don't think Mourinho we'll axe him but he will defiantly wont get as much games as would normally do. I think Mourinho should do the right thing and just sieve him out slowly. Give him less games and just build the team around players like Martial, Rashford, Ibra, Miki, Schneiderlin etc. Maybe it will spur Rooney on to perform better i dont know, but getting rid of him straight off the bat will just be a huge mistake.
 
First, the delusion I referred to was about Rooney's reinvention as a midfielder. Not going to happen, obviously.

Second, Mourinho wouldn't say that he has doubts about Rooney. It would be completely pointelss to humiliate the captain of the team. Of course, he will give him a chance. Rooney deserves to get another chance because of what he has done so far and because he's captain. But I and many others on here think and predict that he won't be good as a No 10. He lacks the tools to succeed in such a role. And I'm sure Mourinho knows it well. So, yes, it is a delusion also to believe that Rooney can lead United to success by being United's No 10. Won't happen and if Mou persists with Rooney, he will end up like Moyes and LVG.

I agree but on 1 thing and that is the bolded part

And I'am worried that he will persist with Rooney on the 10 and that could be the start of the end for him. I don't want Mou to end up like Moyes or LVG, it wouldn't be pretty and it would do the club alot of harm. He needs to succeed, I agree he would have more chance on doing without Rooney in the team but I fear that is a big delusion to think that Rooney won't be a key part of Mourinho's team. For me the lesser of 2 evils is to play him in the midfield instead of as a forward because altough he isn't a great midfielder, I think he can do a job there unlike as a forward I think he simply can't anymore.

For example last season I thought when Rooney played in the midfield I tought he did better than most of our midfielders if not to say all. Does that make him a good midfielder, no but he can play there and not be totally useless for us. Whilst as a forward he was an utter disaster and I don't think he can be useful in that role in anyway for United.

Many people seem to hope, Mourinho gives him a chance as a forward, think he will fail and that will be the end of Rooney as a United player. But I don't think it will be that simple. I think Mou will give him alot of chances as a forward, that could hinder our attacking play for a long time and I think before pushing him to the exit door he might actually come back on his stance and play him as a midfielder anyway. I hope I'am wrong, I'd love to see Rooney being sold to china or get benched from the first few disappointing performances but I just can't see it happening. It will be frustration again because of Wayne slowing down our attacking play and I wonder how long it will take before it starts tearing a rift between him and a large portion of the supporters that he keeps giving Wayne chances and is not getting rid. many people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think this means Wayne is already out of the club with 1 leg, it isn't.

Also you guys are saying that last line (get rid of Mourinho like LVG and Moyes) as if it is an easy thing. If Mourinho fails here at the club, that might be the deficit of United for the coming years. We have had Moyes fail, we have had LVG fail, if Mou fails here aswell, we'll be in such a big mess as a club you couldn't even begin to imagine. If a guy like Mou can't sort out our mess, who will ?

I'have always assumed Mou would accept Rooney is done as a striker and take care of the situation by letting him fizzle out on the midfield where his shortcomings are less exposed and less hindersome for the team dynamic. He could still build a good team despite Rooney in midfield, but if it will be Rooney as the centrepoint of our attacking play, I'am not so sure. I pray to the gods, Mou has the balls to put Wayne out of the team and rid us all of this misery but again I just can't see it happening.
 
Rooney might start from the beginning but he will be eased out of the team as the season goes, Mourinho will soon realize that he can't just lose points with Rooney in the team. For me he will start as no10 because there is no chance he could start ahead of Zlatan and we have no world class no10. I'd personally preferred Pereira there over Rooney any day or Lingard but everything needs time. Rooney will unfortunately gets yet another chance to prove himself but eventually will fail as h did past few years. He will still have media behind his back and after not terrible performance and a goal from penalty he will be Jose's king in the papers but I have no doubt it won't affect Jose's decision to bench him and finally get him out of this club..
 
Rooney will be nowhere near being a starter in Jose's team after a couple of months. He won't keep better players out of the team because of past glories. I'm delighted to hear he won't be played in midfield. Mourinho basically said he'd be as good as Rooney in midfield.
If Mourinho sets up a formation where the midfielders and wingers are providing great service and Rooney just needs to be in the box waiting then he might have a prolific season. He just needs to stop thinking he's Roy of the Rovers.
 
If Mourinho sets up a formation where the midfielders and wingers are providing great service and Rooney just needs to be in the box waiting then he might have a prolific season. He just needs to stop thinking he's Roy of the Rovers.

Chances are slim I think. His finishing doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be, nor does he have the ability to get space in the box like he used to.
 
If Mourinho sets up a formation where the midfielders and wingers are providing great service and Rooney just needs to be in the box waiting then he might have a prolific season. He just needs to stop thinking he's Roy of the Rovers.
The job of a No. 10 is far more complex than you're describing.
 
If Mourinho sets up a formation where the midfielders and wingers are providing great service and Rooney just needs to be in the box waiting then he might have a prolific season. He just needs to stop thinking he's Roy of the Rovers.
A quality striker doesn't just rely on tap ins. Milito, Zlatan, Costa, were all able to create space for goals as opposed to simply tapping in 6 yarders. Rooney will have to up his game many levels to have a prolific season non reliant on penalties
 
The job of a No. 10 is far more complex than you're describing.
I never claimed to be doing an in depth analysis of the number 10 role. I just meant if he was the target man rather than trying to be a playmaker 30 yards out he MIGHT have a more prolific season.
 
A quality striker doesn't just rely on tap ins. Milito, Zlatan, Costa, were all able to create space for goals as opposed to simply tapping in 6 yarders. Rooney will have to up his game many levels to have a prolific season non reliant on penalties
Rooney is in his 30s now. He has served his time as a world class striker and is nearing the end of his career. He has not taken care of himself physically to be able to do the all action role any further so he will need to adapt to being more of a poacher or target man (in my opinion) if he wants to get into double digits this year.

But lets not forget he scored 3 less than Martial this year which probably speaks more of how negative the game plan has been the past 2 years. He could have a late flourish with the right system.

Or he could be shit.
 
Rooney is in his 30s now. He has served his time as a world class striker and is nearing the end of his career. He has not taken care of himself physically to be able to do the all action role any further so he will need to adapt to being more of a poacher or target man (in my opinion) if he wants to get into double digits this year.

But lets not forget he scored 3 less than Martial this year which probably speaks more of how negative the game plan has been the past 2 years. He could have a late flourish with the right system.

Or he could be shit.
He will go the route of Van Persie.
 
Rooney has physically deteriorated to the point where he lacks pace, can't beat a man or last the full 90 minutes, as well as lost the goal scoring appetite, technical skills and now generally seems lost on the pitch. This is not a confidence thing that everything will be all right.

His own admission of himself as a midfielder is a fact that he's done as an attacker. Can he hack it in midfield? Maybe somewhere else, at United, not a chance.
 
Rooney has physically deteriorated to the point where he lacks pace, can't beat a man or last the full 90 minutes, as well as lost the goal scoring appetite, technical skills and now generally seems lost on the pitch. This is not a confidence thing that everything will be all right.

His own admission of himself as a midfielder is a fact that he's done as an attacker. Can he hack it in midfield? Maybe somewhere else, at United, not a chance.
Completely agree with this. Your description of the player in the first sentence is correct, and describes a player that is simply no longer good enough for any top team. He knew he was finished as an attacker last season, so we tried this ridiculous midfield option. Thankfully (and I was delighted to hear this) Mourinho basically said Rooney...a midfielder!? No way. So where does Rooney go now?

We know he is spent as an attacker...Mourinho knows he is not a midfielder. Game over surely?
 
There is a massive difference between a #10 and an SS. Rooney is an SS, he doesn't fit the profile of a natural #10. Fergie, deployed him as an SS behind better strikers like RVN, RVP, Saha, Chicarito Cr7, etc. Unfortunately for him I don't think he even has the body for that anymore. His time is up IMO.
 
@The red panther

I agree with you that Rooney in midfield is a lesser evil than Rooney as a forward. Over the last couple of years we have seen him play in midfield plenty of times for United and England and he's been mostly average. He was absolutely miles away from being average as a forward last season, he was horrendous.

I think you should be more optimistic about the chances of Mourinho dropping/ditching Rooney though. The essence of what he said yesterday was that Rooney's passing is not good enough for a midfielder and that he sees him as a goal scorer. This simply cannot be good news for Rooney given how his goal scoring has declined over recent years (which Mourinho is surely aware of) and how two of Mourinho's three signings so far are players who can play in the same forward positions he is planning to use Rooney (and both outscored him last season).

Rooney's last three managers have had him in the paddling pool wearing water wings. This feels like sink or swim.
 
There is a massive difference between a #10 and an SS. Rooney is an SS, he doesn't fit the profile of a natural #10. Fergie, deployed him as an SS behind better strikers like RVN, RVP, Saha, Chicarito Cr7, etc. Unfortunately for him I don't think he even has the body for that anymore. His time is up IMO.
Not only has he physically deteriorated, the main striker at the club doesn't complement him at all. Zlatan likes dropping deep and laying off the ball. There will be no one running in behind.
 
Not only has he physically deteriorated, the main striker at the club doesn't complement him at all. Zlatan likes dropping deep and laying off the ball. There will be no one running in behind.

This is a point I think a lot of people are missing. Our signings so far are clearly aimed more at replacing Rooney in the team than playing with him. If you were set on Rooney being your #10 you wouldn't sign Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan. Those two players will both marginalise him in that role just like when Ferguson used RvP and Kagawa to reduce his importance to the team in 12/13.
 
A front four to be picked from Martial, Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan, Rashford and Rooney and Mourinho has already said he has big hopes for a Rashford - Ibrahimovic combination.

Martial, Ibra, Rashford, Mkhitaryan - should get us plenty of goals.
If Rooney is failing, I hope Mourinho excludes him from the team quickly, rather than repeatedly playing him and watching him fail, like LVG did.
We don't know for sure, what pressure the manager is under to keep playing Rooney (even when he plays badly).



Excellent.
 
I'll all in favour Rooney leaving the club as I do believe he's past his best but I do think that Jose's comments have been not fully comprehended here. He isn't saying Rooney can't play in midfield cause he can't pass the ball under pressure, he's saying anyone can pass a pretty ball with no pressure, but the hardest thing in the game is to put the ball in the back of the net(something Rooney is famous for). Seems people have taken his first part of the statement and totally forgotten the rest of it. I think Mou still believes Rooney can be a productive attacker.
 
I'll all in favour Rooney leaving the club as I do believe he's past his best but I do think that Jose's comments have been not fully comprehended here. He isn't saying Rooney can't play in midfield cause he can't pass the ball under pressure, he's saying anyone can pass a pretty ball with no pressure, but the hardest thing in the game is to put the ball in the back of the net(something Rooney is famous for). Seems people have taken his first part of the statement and totally forgotten the rest of it. I think Mou still believes Rooney can be a productive attacker.
He is playing with words. Obviously he has rehearsed all his answers about Rooney, the last three years, our ambition, Giggs etc. and hit all of them out of the park. This is Motivation101 where you start with a positive i.e. "ability to score" goals and then bring in the areas of development which was his unsuitability as a midfielder. Mourinho has done the goal setting for Rooney already which is that he needs to play as a striker and will be judged as one. He won't be able to hide behind the "moving to midfield" defense. I think he is paving the way to get rid of him completely if he fails as a striker.
 
I'll all in favour Rooney leaving the club as I do believe he's past his best but I do think that Jose's comments have been not fully comprehended here. He isn't saying Rooney can't play in midfield cause he can't pass the ball under pressure, he's saying anyone can pass a pretty ball with no pressure, but the hardest thing in the game is to put the ball in the back of the net(something Rooney is famous for). Seems people have taken his first part of the statement and totally forgotten the rest of it. I think Mou still believes Rooney can be a productive attacker.
Maybe, except the player himself and the rest of the footy community acknowledge his days as a good striker are waning, hence his acceptance to play midfield. an 18 year old kept him out of centre forward last season. So it seems only a metter of time he is on the bench as I can't see him starting upfront every week.
 
@The red panther

I agree with you that Rooney in midfield is a lesser evil than Rooney as a forward. Over the last couple of years we have seen him play in midfield plenty of times for United and England and he's been mostly average. He was absolutely miles away from being average as a forward last season, he was horrendous.

I think you should be more optimistic about the chances of Mourinho dropping/ditching Rooney though. The essence of what he said yesterday was that Rooney's passing is not good enough for a midfielder and that he sees him as a goal scorer. This simply cannot be good news for Rooney given how his goal scoring has declined over recent years (which Mourinho is surely aware of) and how two of Mourinho's three signings so far are players who can play in the same forward positions he is planning to use Rooney (and both outscored him last season).

Rooney's last three managers have had him in the paddling pool wearing water wings. This feels like sink or swim.

Pretty much. I'd be shocked if Mourinho accepts the sort of sub-standard performances LVG did. He's likely testing the waters - to just get rid of Rooney as soon as he comes in could potentially cause a bit of disharmony considering Rooney will be one of the most influential dressing room figures. No harm in giving him another season in which he'll get some chances to prove himself.
 
Glad to hear Mourinho's statement on Rooney. It's something Sir Alex would have done:D Whenever Rooney feels he's got 'adversity' he usually came out fighting which was obviously what Sir Alex wanted when he would provoke him a bit. Rooney will no doubt feel the same way now.
However, I don't think his body and his general lack of technique will allow him to have the performances he used to be able to pull out when motivated.
I also don't believe Mourinho will persist with him for too long if he's not delivering. Jose is too focused on his personal ambition to succeed, and he won't imo, let anyone stand in the way. I reckon the fall out won't be pretty... but it's necessary if Rooney doesn't improve drastically.
 
I'll all in favour Rooney leaving the club as I do believe he's past his best but I do think that Jose's comments have been not fully comprehended here. He isn't saying Rooney can't play in midfield cause he can't pass the ball under pressure, he's saying anyone can pass a pretty ball with no pressure, but the hardest thing in the game is to put the ball in the back of the net(something Rooney is famous for). Seems people have taken his first part of the statement and totally forgotten the rest of it. I think Mou still believes Rooney can be a productive attacker.
I think that's a very kind interpretation. I dont think he would full on assassinate his ability in midfield - he went further than most would by saying even he could pass well when not under pressure, which is a clear implicit criticism. He said he would not play him as a 6 or an 8, he was categorical about it. I think it is fair to conclude from that that if he doesnt thrive as a forward he will not get in the team.
 
Journalists seem to be interpreting his words the same way most of the caf did. He's not binning him immediately but he is under serious pressure to perform


 
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Finally, now there's nowhere to hide for Rooney. He has been able to perform this merry-go-round of playing average to poorly in 3 positions for a few years now.

Looks like he'll only be playing as a nr.10 for Mourinho, not my preference as he doesn't have the close control, finesse in short passing, vision to his left, or that burst of power to create space for himself anymore.

My prediction is that it's the beginning of the end for him, he simply can't cut it at the highest level with any form of continuity.
I would sell him now, if Mourinho starts dropping him over the course of the season that could get ugly, he does have many allies in the media who refuse to accept that maybe he isn't that good anymore.
 
Finally, now there's nowhere to hide for Rooney. He has been able to perform this merry-go-round of playing average to poorly in 3 positions for a few years now.

Looks like he'll only be playing as a nr.10 for Mourinho, not my preference as he doesn't have the close control, finesse in short passing, vision to his left, or that burst of power to create space for himself anymore.

My prediction is that it's the beginning of the end for him, he simply can't cut it at the highest level with any form of continuity.
I would sell him now, if Mourinho starts dropping him over the course of the season that could get ugly, he does have many allies in the media who refuse to accept that maybe he isn't that good anymore.

Nice one :lol:
 
Finally, now there's nowhere to hide for Rooney. He has been able to perform this merry-go-round of playing average to poorly in 3 positions for a few years now.

Looks like he'll only be playing as a nr.10 for Mourinho, not my preference as he doesn't have the close control, finesse in short passing, vision to his left, or that burst of power to create space for himself anymore.

My prediction is that it's the beginning of the end for him, he simply can't cut it at the highest level with any form of continuity.
I would sell him now, if Mourinho starts dropping him over the course of the season that could get ugly, he does have many allies in the media who refuse to accept that maybe he isn't that good anymore.

I don't think we will sell him unless he's willing to take a wage cut. China is an option but I doubt Rooney will go there. We are stuck with him until 2018 where he will most likely to go Everton on a free. Let's hope if he's shit he's not played constantly.
 
Finally, now there's nowhere to hide for Rooney. He has been able to perform this merry-go-round of playing average to poorly in 3 positions for a few years now.

Looks like he'll only be playing as a nr.10 for Mourinho, not my preference as he doesn't have the close control, finesse in short passing, vision to his left, or that burst of power to create space for himself anymore.

My prediction is that it's the beginning of the end for him, he simply can't cut it at the highest level with any form of continuity.
I would sell him now, if Mourinho starts dropping him over the course of the season that could get ugly, he does have many allies in the media who refuse to accept that maybe he isn't that good anymore.
I think his allies are dwindling and that performance against Iceland helped the case.
 
Was just thinking the number of good/great/legendary strikers that Rooney got to play alongside over the years at United. Yet he outlasted most/all of them.
- RVN
- Solskjaer
- Saha
- Ronaldo
- Larsson (for a bit)
- Tevez
- Berbatov
- RVP
- Martial
- Zlatan (soon)
 
Mourinho basically said he'd be as good as Rooney in midfield.

It's mind blowing that it needs a world class manager to be able to see that; while many of us here have been saying that for years.

The Cafties 1 - 0 ex-players, pundits, journalists, washed-up managers.
 
I'll believe it when I see it. He certainly won't have the free ride Moyes and LVG gave him, but something tells me there will be pressure to play him from the board.
 
Wayne will have competition which is a good thing. The time of untouchables is over