[Adebesi]

@Ashley R1+O Rusty is exactly the right word. I thought he did pretty well given the extreme rust levels. Like an old bike you find by some railway sidings that you think must be completely dead, only to find that, other than a couple of punctures, a very slightly buckled wheel and a saddle that's covered in mould and squeaks when you sit on it, actually works.

Actually scrap that, its more like the sodden, decaying porn stash next to the rusty bike. Which you look at and smile, feel faintly nostalgic for your childhood for a few seconds but then thank God for the internet and keep on walking.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

His hair transplant has to be the worst I've seen.

He's payed all that money to go from a bald man to a man who looks like he's balding.

 

[Fracture90]

ahh but which one of mr tumbles alter ego's will we see the next time he plays huh?

Idk I suggest you ask him if you want to know in advance or wait and see as the rest of us.

 

[Zlatattack]

I'm glad he got a goal. Hope to see him get a few more, come on as a sub when games are won etc, put a bit of a positive on his goodbye.

 

[stevoc]

I really wish the idiot hadn't pushed for moves to city and Chelsea over the last few years.

It's really tarnished his relationship with our fans. He should be going out a club and fan legend

The myth that just won't die. Everyone involved has said there was nothing in those rumours, yet still people believe it.

Chelsea i reckon he would have went there in 2013 if he left but City was never going to happen.

 

[Adebesi]

I'm glad he got a goal. Hope to see him get a few more, come on as a sub when games are won etc, put a bit of a positive on his goodbye.

Absolutely. In all seriousness, Ibra's injury sets things up for a possible fairytale ending to Rooney's career here. I dont think he will end up staying no matter how things pan out, and I hope he doesnt because I think its time to move on. But the injury does leave not only a significant gap in our strikeforce, it leaves a giant hole in our on-field leadership. If he can shake off the cobwebs and put everything into these last few weeks he could play an important part, score a few important goals, provide some valuable experience in some big, high pressure games, take some pressure off the younger strikers. It is Rashford and Martial who will surely be more important in terms of getting us over the line, but his support could help ensure they dont burn out and relieve some of the pressure on them. And obviously if Rooney plays a part, even a relatively small one, in helping us qualify for the CL via our league position and win the EL, we'll have had a pretty decent season, all things considered, and he will be able to leave the club feeling like he had a hand in it.

 

[Successful]

The LVG part is myth. LVG was actively helping Rooney settled as midfielder. He got subbed off, or not starting only due to his fitness/ injury. Whenever he was fit he played under LVG.

Rooney was cent this game by his nowadays standard. Not assured if he's to start our important games or sub on at crucial time though.

LvG made us aware of the fact that Rooney might not play as a striker in the future. The experiment was something a lot of red fans had been expecting. During Rooney's career people have always said he should be tried as a midfielder. He's got so many qualities but it turned out his mind was not that sharp for playing in that role. Trying to emulate Scholes diagonals was not as easy as we thought. You need to have 100% quality in every aspect of the game to do that. Rooney cannot do that. Perhaps at a lower level, but at Manchester United it's not good enough. I still want him as a striker though.

And honestly, what options did Van Gaal have? Bench the highest earner and the biggest icon? To be fair he introduced some amazing players for us. Manchester United is not the place to experiment so unfortunately he had to go - mainly because all his big name transfers let him down. Disgraceful.

 

[Cheesy]

LvG made us aware of the fact that Rooney might not play as a striker in the future. The experiment was something a lot of red fans had been expecting. During Rooney's career people have always said he should be tried as a midfielder. He's got so many qualities but it turned out his mind was not that sharp for playing in that role. Trying to emulate Scholes diagonals was not as easy as we thought. You need to have 100% quality in every aspect of the game to do that. Rooney cannot do that. Perhaps at a lower level, but at Manchester United it's not good enough. I still want him as a striker though.

And honestly, what options did Van Gaal have? Bench the highest earner and the biggest icon? To be fair he introduced some amazing players for us. Manchester United is not the place to experiment so unfortunately he had to go - mainly because all his big name transfers let him down. Disgraceful.

If he wasn't good enough...then, well, yes? Mourinho's done it, and it's not really caused any major problems because anyone who watches Rooney on a regular basis can see that he's past his best and doesn't warrant a consistent starting place in the team anymore.

The excuses for LVG are a bit bizarre - he wasn't phasing out Rooney, he made him a central figure to our team when it was quite clear Rooney shouldn't have been in the team at all. No one was asking him to 'experiment' either; people just wanted to see him pick the best available 11, and Rooney's inclusion generally went against that.

 

[Zlatattack]

Absolutely. In all seriousness, Ibra's injury sets things up for a possible fairytale ending to Rooney's career here. I dont think he will end up staying no matter how things pan out, and I hope he doesnt because I think its time to move on. But the injury does leave not only a significant gap in our strikeforce, it leaves a giant hole in our on-field leadership. If he can shake off the cobwebs and put everything into these last few weeks he could play an important part, score a few important goals, provide some valuable experience in some big, high pressure games, take some pressure off the younger strikers. It is Rashford and Martial who will surely be more important in terms of getting us over the line, but his support could help ensure they dont burn out and relieve some of the pressure on them. And obviously if Rooney plays a part, even a relatively small one, in helping us qualify for the CL via our league position and win the EL, we'll have had a pretty decent season, all things considered, and he will be able to leave the club feeling like he had a hand in it.

I don't expect it to be all that fairytale, but if he can get a few goals, not make a fool of himself whilst on the pitch and leave with some dignity it would be great. He's obviously been unfit a lot of this season (injuries have played their part) and it would be sad to have a genuine club legend leave with such a whimper.

 

[Adebesi]

I don't expect it to be all that fairytale, but if he can get a few goals, not make a fool of himself whilst on the pitch and leave with some dignity it would be great. He's obviously been unfit a lot of this season (injuries have played their part) and it would be sad to have a genuine club legend leave with such a whimper.

Yeah, fairytale is optimistic - though I always like to live in hope.

I imagine Rooney would probably take "dignity intact" at this stage.

 

[Padawan]

That slip when Jesse played him in was poor Wazza's post Fergie career summed up in one moment

Nope, it wasn't the slip that summed up his post Fergie career, it was the goal.

Imo he didn't play well yesterday, didn't look sharp, lacked movement, slow and clumsy, can't protect the ball...and yet, he scored.

He scored 57 goals and gave 40 assists in the post Fergie era. Despite his lack of speed, agility, mobility, etc., he has always delivered good number of goals and assists compared to his fellow attackers in the squad.

It may come as a surprise that Rooney’s total goals and assists in post Fergie era (2012-2017, as of today) of 97 goals and assists, is the same as Hazard’s 97 (62 goals, 35 assists), better than Eriksen’s 92 (42 goals, 50 assists), Fabregas’ 85 (30 goals, 55 assists), Ozil’s 84 (32 goals, 52 assists), Silva’s 73 (30 goals, 43 assists), Mata’s 67 (41 goals, 26 assists), and Coutinho’s 66 (36 goals, 30 assists). His tally is well below that of Aguero’s 147 (122 goals, 25 assists), Sanchez’s 133 (86 goals, 47 assists), but not far from Costa’s 110 (90 goals, 20 assists) and Giroud’s 104 (79 goals, 25 assists).

Football is as much a spectacle as it is a competition, watching a fast paced game with many dribblings is satisfying, even though the game ended in a draw. Rooney is a bad cast for such spectacle, but for the competition side of the game, he is one of the few who can be expected to find the net, as he had done more than anybody else in our team in post Fergie era.

 

[Rado_N]

Nope, it wasn't the slip that summed up his post Fergie career, it was the goal.

Imo he didn't play well yesterday, didn't look sharp, lacked movement, slow and clumsy, can't protect the ball...and yet, he scored.

He scored 57 goals and gave 40 assists in the post Fergie era. Despite his lack of speed, agility, mobility, etc., he has always delivered good number of goals and assists compared to his fellow attackers in the squad.

It may come as a surprise that Rooney’s total goals and assists in post Fergie era (2012-2017, as of today) of 97 goals and assists, is the same as Hazard’s 97 (62 goals, 35 assists), better than Eriksen’s 92 (42 goals, 50 assists), Fabregas’ 85 (30 goals, 55 assists), Ozil’s 84 (32 goals, 52 assists), Silva’s 73 (30 goals, 43 assists), Mata’s 67 (41 goals, 26 assists), and Coutinho’s 66 (36 goals, 30 assists). His tally is well below that of Aguero’s 147 (122 goals, 25 assists), Sanchez’s 133 (86 goals, 47 assists), but not far from Costa’s 110 (90 goals, 20 assists) and Giroud’s 104 (79 goals, 25 assists).

Football is as much a spectacle as it is a competition, watching a fast paced game with many dribblings is satisfying, even though the game ended in a draw. Rooney is a bad cast for such spectacle, but for the competition side of the game, he is one of the few who can be expected to find the net, as he had done more than anybody else in our team in post Fergie era.

SAF didn't retire in 2012, it was 2013.

 

[Judge Red]

His hair transplant has to be the worst I've seen.

He's payed all that money to go from a bald man to a man who looks like he's balding.

As tends to be the case, the beard helped offset the baldness to a degree. Didn't help his form, admittedly.

 

[Paxi]

You should move on. He was 18 you were 49, you were never going to build a life together.

That's fantastic!

 

[Liver_bird]

His hair transplant has to be the worst I've seen.

He's payed all that money to go from a bald man to a man who looks like he's balding.

Yeah, I mean looking at Eriksen's and Fabregas's im wondering how his is so spectacularly bad. Ive seen people with far far less money achieve better results for a 1/10th of the price. Not sure if its to do with how little hair he had beforehand.

 

[Padawan]

SAF didn't retire in 2012, it was 2013.

Sorry for the typo mate, the data is from 2013/14 season, from espnfc website.

 

[Blind]

I agree that it would be ideal to see Rooney leave after helping us to 4th and the Europa League but if we want to have the best chance of doing that he needs to be kept well clear of the starting XI. I think Jose knows it too and yesterday was a farewell appearance in a game where he could afford to rest a few players.

 

[Jaybomb]

Fair play to him. He scored. That's all we can ask from him.

We need to win the remaining games. I couldn't care less if his "all round game" is rubbish. We need him to score goals.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Actually scrap that, its more like the sodden, decaying porn stash next to the rusty bike. Which you look at and smile, feel faintly nostalgic for your childhood for a few seconds but then thank God for the internet and keep on walking.

Well, that one bombed.

If he wasn't good enough...then, well, yes? Mourinho's done it, and it's not really caused any major problems because anyone who watches Rooney on a regular basis can see that he's past his best and doesn't warrant a consistent starting place in the team anymore.

Jose just did the opposite of what LVG did though over a clean slate, he bought another high-profile player in that performed instantly and he couldn't drop. LVG did not, he essentially sifted through a whole raft of players who didn't play how he wanted them to play (I'll go into that later). It proved pretty quickly for Jose that playing Rooney in between Ibra and Pogba as the second striker didn't work well (and occasionally pushing him to the left). It has shown over the course of this season that nobody has been able to play in between those two (and that one is blatantly obvious). Mata/Mkhi/Lingard and even Herrera/Fellaini have all struggled. It is a structural problem which organically pushed Rooney out of the side. There isn't really much Rooney can do about this and which is why I thought personally it was weird people would instantly make the connection that Rooney would blow up and moan. Which was quite the opposite from the last two seasons where he was moved from 10 to 8/6, up to single striker, back to 6 and then as an 8/10 to close last season.

The excuses for LVG are a bit bizarre - he wasn't phasing out Rooney, he made him a central figure to our team when it was quite clear Rooney shouldn't have been in the team at all. No one was asking him to 'experiment' either; people just wanted to see him pick the best available 11, and Rooney's inclusion generally went against that.

This is a pretty common misconception when understanding the way LVG went into the second season. That it was 'on Rooney' and that he "shouldn't have been in the team at all" which to put it pretty bluntly is quite a ludicrous claim considering he was our top scorer the year before.

It goes back to the first season and when LVG arrived to see why he never 'called out' or 'dropped' Rooney. It was the exact opposite, he kept saying at length that he was doing "exactly what he wanted him to do". Because he was.

I think it's a more disciplined role, the manager, actually, when he spoke to me about how he wants me to play up front, he went back to when he was manager of Bayern Munich and the striker there was averaging 10 touches a game. I was like 'bloody hell, I want more than that'. I can't remember who the striker was [possibly Ivica Olic] but then he said he was scoring two goals a game, so I was like 'that's no pressure then, two goals in 10 touches'.

So instantly, it is a join the dots kind-of moment. Falcao/RVP/Chicharito (and Welbeck to a minor, lesser extent..... But it's Welbz) are all movement oriented strikers. They play off the shoulder and are poachers. Could you say to any of those guys what was said above? RVP? Nope, Falcao coming off an injury needing game time? Nope. Chicharito's game is built on movement, so nope.

If you want a striker in our squad to execute the role that LVG wanted, obviously it is Rooney. He's versatile as a personality and has a swiss-army-knife pedigree in playing many positions. Of course LVG was always going to go to Rooney and why he always kept saying that he was playing exactly how he wanted him to. After the new year when the boys went to the boss to say it was "flat boss, flat" is when I think things started go a little differently, especially when Rashford came on the scene. LVG still, actually said something along the lines of that he dropped Rashford becuase he was tired and when he was tired he lost focus on staying up front and moved around a lot.

I think people have just given in to the few loose narratives that have been circulated in here. As @stevoc says above the people keep saying "300k/pw" and that "he wanted to move to City" which has been proven as false in two biographies and timelines that don't match up.

The "years of shite" narrative is probably closer to "half a season of shite" last year, then when it is drilled down into you start to really see some of the way that LVG was restricting aspects of this team. So I personally can sit back and just "hang on, something isn't right about this". I am not that emotionally invested in the wider narrative that he must be binned asap as 'the' problem. There are a lot of aspects at play here.

People need to put it back in the closet and just get over the fact that we need him (or whoever) in the run in down the stretch this season.

 

[RedDevil@84]

He is back

 

[Miscemayl]

Nope, it wasn't the slip that summed up his post Fergie career, it was the goal.

Imo he didn't play well yesterday, didn't look sharp, lacked movement, slow and clumsy, can't protect the ball...and yet, he scored.

He scored 57 goals and gave 40 assists in the post Fergie era. Despite his lack of speed, agility, mobility, etc., he has always delivered good number of goals and assists compared to his fellow attackers in the squad.

It may come as a surprise that Rooney’s total goals and assists in post Fergie era (2012-2017, as of today) of 97 goals and assists, is the same as Hazard’s 97 (62 goals, 35 assists), better than Eriksen’s 92 (42 goals, 50 assists), Fabregas’ 85 (30 goals, 55 assists), Ozil’s 84 (32 goals, 52 assists), Silva’s 73 (30 goals, 43 assists), Mata’s 67 (41 goals, 26 assists), and Coutinho’s 66 (36 goals, 30 assists). His tally is well below that of Aguero’s 147 (122 goals, 25 assists), Sanchez’s 133 (86 goals, 47 assists), but not far from Costa’s 110 (90 goals, 20 assists) and Giroud’s 104 (79 goals, 25 assists).

Football is as much a spectacle as it is a competition, watching a fast paced game with many dribblings is satisfying, even though the game ended in a draw. Rooney is a bad cast for such spectacle, but for the competition side of the game, he is one of the few who can be expected to find the net, as he had done more than anybody else in our team in post Fergie era.

Good post!

I strongly supported dropping him at the start of the season and see no future for him here. However, to be fair to Rooney, he played alright.

First game back for months and managed to get himself on the score sheet. Yes, it was a simple shot but how many times this season have we seen the ball bounce out and none of our players reacting to it for a simple tap in? Good to see he's at least alert and the instincts are still there. Also, if the ref didn't bottle it, he would've won a penalty too.

Yes, there were plenty of errors and the decision making was slow but he's contributed in this game and don't deserve all this criticism. Even for the slip, the ball was played behind him and he's not the first player to slip in a good situation. Let's not bash him simply because he's Rooney.

I know he's on a massively high salary but that's not Wayne's fault. Blame the board for that. He was useful in the last game and hopefully he can help us get top 4 and the EL

 

[RedDevil@84]

Hope he scores loads of goals in coming matches. We need goal scorers desperately and if Rooney can provide that, there is no cause for complains.

 

[Kant-ona]

I hope that the rest of the season is something like the happy end of Rooney's faire tale at United.

Two facts
(a) He is legend.
(b) His reign comes to an end.

should lead to the "conclusion":
(c) Rooney scores us to the Europa League title and then gives a press conference about his future, using sentences like "I was always interested in the US culture" or "to spend more time with my family...".

However, I was happy that he was back for last sunday. And he scored. As long as he scores, there shouldn't be much criticism.

 

[TsuWave]

As long as he scores, there shouldn't be much criticism.

he was awful, and he's currently one of the worst players in our squad. the goal he scored doesn't absolve all the terrible touches and missed passes, he breaks down our play more than an oppo player. can't wait til he's gone.

 

[stevoc]

The "years of shite" narrative is probably closer to "half a season of shite" last year, then when it is drilled down into you start to really see some of the way that LVG was restricting aspects of this team. So I personally can sit back and just "hang on, something isn't right about this". I am not that emotionally invested in the wider narrative that he must be binned asap as 'the' problem. There are a lot of aspects at play here.

People need to put it back in the closet and just get over the fact that we need him (or whoever) in the run in down the stretch this season.

There is definitely some truth in that. Last season before Xmas he was awful really bad, i think some people seem to have decided he was that awful since Ferguson left. But in the new year last season he was playing quite well regularly scoring and assisting up until his injury, if not for his injury he probably would have been our top scorer last season just like he was the two seasons before.

Yes by his previous standards he wasn't great from 2013-2016 but most of that was probably down to him naturally declining plus everyone around him turning to shit under Moyes and then being constantly shifted around between midfield and attack by Van Gaal which i'm sure didn't help either.

He'll leave this summer once he does i think a lot of the strange bitterness towards him will dissipate over time.

 

[Akshay]

Yes by his previous standards he wasn't great from 2013-2016 but most of that was probably down to him naturally declining plus everyone around him turning to shit under Moyes and then being constantly shifted around between midfield and attack by Van Gaal which i'm sure didn't help either.

He was really bad for most of the time under LVG. I remember game to game hoping Rooney would turn the corner and collectively we kept lowering the standards for him until it was undeniable he just wasn't good enough. That's when the talk of #9 not being his best position and needing to be played deeper started. He wasn't shifted around for the good of the team, he was shifted around because whatever position he played he stunk out. His first touch was particularly woeful, and his short passing was usually bad as well.

I have no problem with Rooney playing a part for us until the end of the season, and I hope he can score a few goals in the process, but let's not revise multiple seasons worth of performances on the back of one goal. Can't believe that so many think he should stay beyond the summer.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

There is definitely some truth in that. Last season before Xmas he was awful really bad, i think some people seem to have decided he was that awful since Ferguson left. But in the new year last season he was playing quite well regularly scoring and assisting up until his injury, if not for his injury he probably would have been our top scorer last season just like he was the two seasons before.

How would you quantify "awful really bad" though? I am just curious about that in general, not to have a specific dig at you mate. Because like above your post "omg the worst player in our squad.." hyperbolic nonsense is an extreme example of this and it absolutely kills discussion dead.

I'm just curious in general about the narrative in here. Because he was pretty good in that qualifier when he got that hat-trick against that team who were literally pub glassy's by day who played a bit of football at night. I don't know I just didn't see anything that was something that said he was "inexplicably and undeniably shit" or anything worth a narrative that isn't even being discussed. Surely there would be something to quantify it?

Paddy McNair, Donny Love, Tyler Blackett and Memphis Depay trotted out for us in the last two seasons and there were large stretches where I was scratching my head asking myself how these guys were professional footballers, let alone playing for us. (Okay not Memphis, but still) I don't think I've come out and flatly said a United player was 'awful' or 'really bad' in a long time. Though Love, McNair and Blackett made me come bloody close to making me do it though.

Yes by his previous standards he wasn't great from 2013-2016 but most of that was probably down to him naturally declining plus everyone around him turning to shit under Moyes and then being constantly shifted around between midfield and attack by Van Gaal which i'm sure didn't help either.

He looked like the only one who gave a shit at the start of Moyes reign. Then he got injured and had a moderate run in off the back of injury up to the WC in 14. In LVG's first season he played a genuine swiss-army-knife role in many positions and was pretty good. That was a team with Di Maria, Falcao and we still managed to completely balls it up as a unit. Being top scorer he could pretty much be the only one who fit and could operate under LVG's subservient tactical structure.

It seems to me to be pretty clear he can't play a full on single striker role, the game has evolved away from using single strikers that aren't 6'1+ with a frame that can move quick with the ball. The only real position he could play is a 8/10 (Jose's 9.5) mix with strikers instinct. But obviously moving forward we aren't going to completely adapt the system to him.

I'll be interested to see what Jose does in the run in. I think it was obvious against Burnley that he really struggled to run the lanes, he might get some legs back over the next few games but I really doubt it. On the counter and when he was able to break in open field though he still looked swift and like he could be dangerous. That is a pretty minute and focal length subset of areas to try and use him in. It is an area which Rashford has him covered in spades and will obviously stay as the first choice player. I'd be interested to see him play 9.5 with Pogba and Herrera behind him or the way Jose has played 4-2-3-1 this season. But Mkhi probably has him pipped and with Mata injured, he's organically sitting behind two players in the pecking order.

But honestly, if we get some form of quality contribution from him, like I said it will be massive. Massive. This part of our season is make or break and we're stuck with him whether we like it or not.

 

[stevoc]

He was really bad for most of the time under LVG. I remember game to game hoping Rooney would turn the corner and collectively we kept lowering the standards for him until it was undeniable he just wasn't good enough. That's when the talk of #9 not being his best position and needing to be played deeper started. He wasn't shifted around for the good of the team, he was shifted around because whatever position he played he stunk out. His first touch was particularly woeful, and his short passing was usually bad as well.

I have no problem with Rooney playing a part for us until the end of the season, and I hope he can score a few goals in the process, but let's not revise multiple seasons worth of performances on the back of one goal. Can't believe that so many think he should stay beyond the summer.

By Rooney's own standards perhaps but bar that 6 months or so at the end of 2015 he wasn't bad at all he was actually still a pretty good player just not a great one. He was still very productive for us in Van Gaals first season. Top scorer and i think most assists despite playing most of the season in midfield.

 

[stevoc]

How would you quantify "awful really bad" though? I am just curious about that in general, not to have a specific dig at you mate. Because like above your post "omg the worst player in our squad.." hyperbolic nonsense is an extreme example of this and it absolutely kills discussion dead.

I'm just curious in general about the narrative in here. Because he was pretty good in that qualifier when he got that hat-trick against that team who were literally pub glassy's by day who played a bit of football at night. I don't know I just didn't see anything that was something that said he was "inexplicably and undeniably shit" or anything worth a narrative that isn't even being discussed. Surely there would be something to quantify it?

For me he was though mate, i'm not someone to exaggerate how bad Rooney was like a lot of people. But that period between August and December 2015 was as bad as i've seen him play. Right up there with the few months at the start of the 2010-11 season where he didn't score from open play for about 5-6 months. Everything about his game in late 2015 was just off, passing, shooting, first touch, everything. Yes he had the odd good performance like Brugge but he was bad. As i said he improved again and got back to a good level after Xmas though.

 

[Pexbo]

The myth that just won't die. Everyone involved has said there was nothing in those rumours, yet still people believe it.

Chelsea i reckon he would have went there in 2013 if he left but City was never going to happen.

So why did he get a frosty reception from his team mates and have to spend a long while explaining his actions and apologising?

 

[Akshay]

By Rooney's own standards perhaps but bar that 6 months or so at the end of 2015 he wasn't bad at all he was actually still a pretty good player just not a great one. He was still very productive for us in Van Gaals first season. Top scorer and i think most assists despite playing most of the season in midfield.

14 goals isn't a productive season, he was top scorer simply because he played the most games among outfield players. Like I said, the reason he played in midfield was because his all round play in the striker position was poor and our passing kept breaking down as soon as he got on the ball. He was then even worse in midfield as he's completely unsuited to that position.

 

[stevoc]

14 goals isn't a productive season, he was top scorer simply because he played the most games among outfield players. Like I said, the reason he played in midfield was because his all round play in the striker position was poor and our passing kept breaking down as soon as he got on the ball. He was then even worse in midfield as he's completely unsuited to that position.

14 goals when playing mostly in midfield is good considering. Look mate if you think he was in midfield because other players were keeping him out of the no9 or no10 positions thats fair enough i don't know if i agree seeing as Falcao and Van Persie were worse that season but whatever.

 

[stevoc]

So why did he get a frosty reception from his team mates and have to spend a long while explaining his actions and apologising?

In 2010?

Well i thought he apologised to his teammates for questioning the quality of the squad back then. Not sure why he would have apologised for wanting to go to City had that been true.

 

[Akshay]

14 goals when playing mostly in midfield is good considering. Look mate if you think he was in midfield because other players were keeping him out of the no9 or no10 positions thats fair enough i don't know if i agree seeing as Falcao and Van Persie were worse that season but whatever.

He didn't play most of the season in midfield though? He started the season as our striker and was shifted to midfield mainly for the December - February period, after which LVG seemed to give up on Falcao and moved Rooney back up top. He only played a select few games in midfield after that. LVG's reason for moving him initially was that Rooney wasn't giving him what he wanted in a striker.

Now obviously Falcao was much worse and RVP had a poor season. I suppose if you measure a striker's worth purely in terms of goals you could say Rooney had a mediocre season at best, but his all around play was poor.

 

[Cheesy]

This is a pretty common misconception when understanding the way LVG went into the second season. That it was 'on Rooney' and that he "shouldn't have been in the team at all" which to put it pretty bluntly is quite a ludicrous claim considering he was our top scorer the year before.

It goes back to the first season and when LVG arrived to see why he never 'called out' or 'dropped' Rooney. It was the exact opposite, he kept saying at length that he was doing "exactly what he wanted him to do". Because he was.

Rooney was fine in 2014/15, LVG's first season. Not brilliant, but alright. No one disputed him being picked at the start of the 2015/16 season because we were hoping his decline was more of a blip. By later in the season though it was clear Rooney's overall game had significantly regressed, yet LVG continued to play him as a central, pivotal figure to the team, often shifting Martial out wide despite the fact Martial was looking like a better forward at the time. That's on LVG. It shouldn't have taken him a full year to realise Rooney wasn't good enough anymore.

 

[stevoc]

He didn't play most of the season in midfield though? He started the season as our striker and was shifted to midfield mainly for the December - February period, after which LVG seemed to give up on Falcao and moved Rooney back up top. He only played a select few games in midfield after that.

Now obviously Falcao was much worse and RVP had a poor season. I suppose if you measure a striker's worth purely in terms of goals you could say Rooney had a mediocre season at best, but his all around play was poor.

He played more games in midfield than he did up front thats a fact mate. He wasn't just in midfield for 2-3 months. According to this http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/wayne-rooney/leistungsdaten/spieler/3332/plus/0?saison=2014 he played 20 games in midfield as opposed to 16 as a centre forward. It's interesting that he only played one game as a second striker/no10 which is where he's played most of his career.

So as i said 14 goals and 6 assists while playing most of his games in midfield, in a team under a new manager trying to integrate a new style of play as well as a load of new players and chopping and changing formations and players positions is pretty good in my opinion. Not saying it was great but for me thats good, it certainly couldn't be described as an awful season which keeps getting repeated on here.

LVG's reason for moving him initially was that Rooney wasn't giving him what he wanted in a striker.

I don't remember that being the case but if its true and Rooney wasn't giving him what he wanted as a striker then i'm not sure what exactly he wanted because no one else was either.

 

[Akshay]

He played more games in midfield than he did up front thats a fact mate. He wasn't just in midfield for 2-3 months. According to this http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/wayne-rooney/leistungsdaten/spieler/3332/plus/0?saison=2014 he played 20 games in midfield as opposed to 16 as a centre forward. It's interesting that he only played one game as a second striker/no10 which is where he's played most of his career.

So as i said 14 goals and 6 assists while playing most of his games in midfield, in a team under a new manager trying to integrate a new style of play as well as a load of new players and chopping and changing formations and players positions is pretty good in my opinion. Not saying it was great but for me thats good, it certainly couldn't be described as an awful season which keeps getting repeated on here.

Good points. The site is interesting as it lists him playing as AM which isn't how I'd describe it when he did play midfield. I think he actually played more centrally, often where Herrera would play when Wayne was unavailable. I guess it was more November onwards than December, but I forgot how many games there are in that period. He played midfield more than I thought then. It could be that his performances as a striker were better and I remember it as a poor season because I was very unhappy with him in midfield. Or as you said, that awful period in the beginning of the 2nd season playing tricks on my memory.

I don't remember that being the case but if its true and Rooney wasn't giving him what he wanted as a striker then i'm not sure what exactly he wanted because no one else was either.

Yeah I'll agree with that. He seemed to want someone extremely clinical who would stay in the box at all times, despite that type of striker being sort of out of fashion nowadays. It also didn't suit our existing forwards at all.

 

[stevoc]

Good points. The site is interesting as it lists him playing as AM which isn't how I'd describe it when he did play midfield. I think he actually played more centrally, often where Herrera would play when Wayne was unavailable. I guess it was more November onwards than December, but I forgot how many games there are in that period. He played midfield more than I thought then. It could be that his performances as a striker were better and I remember it as a poor season because I was very unhappy with him in midfield. Or as you said, that awful period in the beginning of the 2nd season playing tricks on my memory.

Not really what i would describe as an AM either mate, but i guess most of his games in midfield came on the left of a 3 so that site must think of that as an attacking midfielder.

His performances up front weren't great at the start of the season but towards the end especially in that good run we had vs Spurs, Liverpool, City he was getting a lot of praise for his performances up front. I think you are right that period of awful form at the end of 2015 has played tricks with a lot of peoples memories. Between that and his indifferent form this season a lot of people now assume he's been like that for years when i just don't think thats been the case. Now he didn't set the world alight but in 13-14 and 14-15 he was top scorer and probably our best player in both seasons.

 

[Sky1981]

261 pages onwards this season there are still people arguing he's not that bad.

He's that bad. Get over it

 

[Chip]

261 pages onwards this season there are still people arguing he's not that bad.

He's that bad. Get over it

His all-round games is obviously quite bad as is his first touch. Yet, he's got 6 goals and 10 assists in 32 games(including a bunch of sub apps), and that's really not that bad.
As long as he keeps up those numbers, and we keep winning I'm not complaining.

Still, I agree he should definitely be off this summer but until then, there's nothing to do but support him and hope for the best. We're so low on attacking options that we need to rely on him.