Are there any instances in the past of players losing their physical edge and then regaining it (not counting players recovering from injuries)?
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
I am pretty sure Mata played left wing forward mostly for Chelsea. I can't claim to be 100% sure but I watched his Chelsea goal/assist compilation and a lot of them were on the left hand side.
It was only in Mata's last full season at Chelsea he played as a No 10. For the vast majority of his career, he's played as a false winger. Same thing with David Silva. I don't understand he argument that Mata playing on the right is impeding Rooney. Rooney could have gotten a hat trick against Swansea.
Any striker worth his salt knows when a false winger cuts inside, he's looking to play the ball over the defense into the path of the foward so he need to be on the last line making runs. Watch Silva when he plays for on the wings, watch Messi when he plays on the wings. They all have players running towards goal when they cut on their left foot looking to play one over the defense. Mata has already done this on many occasions this season. The problem imo, is Rooney comes deep to often and asks for the ball to feet trying to do Mata's job for him. It leaves Mata with Memphis often as the only option. And quite often Memphis has gotten into decent positions on the end of a Mata long ball but his decision making has let him down.
The heat maps show it. Memphis is often way ahead of Rooney in their average positions.
Any striker worth his salt knows when a false winger cuts inside, he's looking to play the ball over the defense into the path of the foward so he need to be on the last line making runs. Watch Silva when he plays for on the wings, watch Messi when he plays on the wings. They all have players running towards goal when they cut on their left foot looking to play one over the defense. Mata has already done this on many occasions this season. The problem imo, is Rooney comes deep to often and asks for the ball to feet trying to do Mata's job for him. It leaves Mata with Memphis often as the only option. And quite often Memphis has gotten into decent positions on the end of a Mata long ball but his decision making has let him down.
The heat maps show it. Memphis is often way ahead of Rooney in their average positions.
Yeah, it is usually Depay out high left, Rooney a bit further back central and then Mata near the half way line on the right. Rooney has mainly been having to drop into the space vacated by Mata rarely being up field at the right times to influence the play. When he is, his go to move is to get the ball with his back to goal, run back, turn inside and pass.
I don't think I've even seen Mata attempt one of those balls this season. Especially since he is so one footed and plays with his back to the space, I mean he can't really play a conventional pass over his right shoulder from there. Those passes are never on from Mata, Rooney doesn't make those runs because those passes never come. It is wasted energy.
Yeah, that is Mata which is causing the problem. Basically he's playing almost like a second fullback. A lot of the times he's either miles behind the play and not getting on the ball and moving it forward. Or he's up on the right getting the ball with his back to space and turning back and central which means those passes you describe are not on.
Part of the reason why Rooney got moved around was his own quality. Bad he been indispensable in the striker's role and damn good there, he wouldn't have been.
Can't recall any. When you are done you are done I guess.
I disagree. On many occasions especially against Newcastle, I was at the game. When Mata cut in only for him to take his head up and see Rooney only 10 yards away from him. What's he supposed to do? I do agree that he needs to face the goal more but he has definitely tried to find players making runs on the left side of the pitch. Any striker is supposed to gamble and make runs. It's what you expect. I think Rooney is struggling to accept he won't see much of the ball. I stand by that.
Mata has been occupying the spaces you would expect a false right winger to occupy. look at the heat maps? Rooney and Adnan Januzaj have been occupying virtually the same positions. Rooney hasn't been dropping into Mata's space. He's been dropping into Januzaj space. I think you're comparing Mata to a conventional winger.
As I said you're comparing Mata with a conventional winger. Of course he's going to be behind the ball more often than not. He's a play maker. How often do you see David Silva ahead of play. His positioning seems correct to me. Looking at has average position he's inbetween Januzaj and the two deep lying midfielders. We must also note Januzaj was expected to play as a second striker not a conventional No 10. I also would like Mata to turn and face the goal more but accusing him of not trying to find people making runs is wrong. Personally, I don't see the major crime LVG has committed by putting him there. He's atarted every game there since March and I think LVG is happy with him otherwise I don't think he'd be playing as much as he has.
Last edited:
I wasn't tbh, I'm just of the opinion that he isn't an elitle level goal scorer. Think he has and always has been a very good one, and a top level player. But in terms of being a pure goalscorer I always rated him as very good but not elite. Thats just my opinion.
EDIT: Also on David Villa, at Barca his primary job was actually to score goals. His issues were more to do with the terrible injury he had IMO. His first season at Barca he scored a lot
Rooneys movement off the ball has looked a little sharper so far tonight.
Lovely control and pass too.
Kinda glad he's getting this game time with England. I remember Ferguson saying that the only way to get him into form is to get him to log minutes.
I always thought he had a great first touch.
I love Rooney and don't understand the hate he gets, but i've been wondering if he is another england captain that cares more about that than his club. Beckhams domestic game dropped compared to his international one when he became captain. I wonder if Rooney is the same.
It wouldn't have been as noticeable last season due to him playing here, there and everywhere for us...
It wouldn't have been as noticeable last season due to him playing here, there and everywhere for us...
What hate? He's been bang average for Man United for a year now.
Will I be able to buy a commemorative tea set to mark the occasion?
England's all-time top scorer eh?
England record done. Another game he's been sloppy and poor in. Doesn't matter though now, just like San Marino game. 50 goals. Good lad. Pleased for him.
Hopefully it's a weight off his shoulders and all that nonsense...
Hopefully it's a weight off his shoulders and all that nonsense...
Its funny reading the post from the previous page. Rooney plays as number 10 = He wont get that many goals from there, he needs to play as the leading striker to get you goals. Rooney plays as the leading striker = That's not his best position, he needs to be involved in the game to get the best out of him. There no universal agreement on his best position is there? and that probably says more about him than anything else.
We need to start winning some penalties.
He wasn't sloppy and poor at all, he had a good game.
Not sure if this is accurate , i got it from somewhere else, but I think it mostly is, heres his record when hes not playing small European teams, in the World Cup:
Gary lineker 10 goals in 2 world cups, Bobby charlton 4 goals in 2 world cups, Owen 4 goals in 2 world cups... Rooney 1 little goal in 3 world cups
Gary lineker 10 goals in 2 world cups, Bobby charlton 4 goals in 2 world cups, Owen 4 goals in 2 world cups... Rooney 1 little goal in 3 world cups
I thought he looked off pace and lacked energy again tonight.
Im a Scotsman so don't really care about England but what it's worth Rooney has played in largely inferior teams than both Charlton and that guy who is morphing into Rolf Harris.
Plenty of hate aroung. Glad thats what you focused on though.
You cant really use world cups as an argument as he was injured before 2006 and 2010 and was decent in 2014 imo.
he was every bit as crap as everyone else in 2014, the entire squad should have retired from internationals after that farce"What hate?"..
Another pen eh
England looked a much better side when Kane came on and played as the striker.
Hopefully this will give him a confidence boost ahead of the weekend, but still not happy that he's undisputed first choice here.
Hopefully this will give him a confidence boost ahead of the weekend, but still not happy that he's undisputed first choice here.
6 out of 50. Mighty 10ish percent.
5 goals in 8 starts, this season. Pretty good start...
It isnt hate, criticism isnt the same as hate? Are we 12 year olds? I dont think theres someone who wants Rooney to do bad or is glad that Rooney isnt performing."What hate?"..
Lionel Messi on Rooney:
Very high praise from arguably the best player ever.
Very high praise from arguably the best player ever.
Sir Alex called Phil Jones someone likely to be our greatest player ever..
Moral of the story, people say a lot of things..especially when they are put under the spot and asked questions about a particular player. Context is important. If he had said that Rooney was the worst player he had ever seen, would you take that too? You would probably think that its just one person saying that( Like a lot of people do when someone says something negative about the club, see Queiroz ), surely that logic should apply to positive statements too?
Isnt Mata our penalty taker? Rooney has a wretched record for us at penalties..at least 12 misses if I recall.
I'd forgotten about that Lvg-ism, still getting used to his peculiarities.
- Status