[goin4glory]

I wonder what the reaction in this thread would be if we had won. I don't think he'd be getting as much criticism as he is. He wasn't that bad I didn't think. He still wasn't good and has to improve, but I thought it was an improvement on the Villa match.

The reaction would be the same. He got plenty of deserved criticism for his performances vs Spurs/Villa which we won.

Fact is he's been woeful but I don't hold it against LVG if he doesn't go and get a striker, there's a real lack of quality available right now.

 

[Sam]

Good God man get a grip for feck sake

Yeah, what an utterly ridiculous suggestion.

I mean its not like Bony was the highest scoring PL player in 2014, or that Benteke had a 1 in 2 record playing for a very poor Villa side.

The idea on here that lesser name players can't be as good as the 'star names' is so irritating. I swear people just see the name, and completely ignore whats actually happening on the pitch.

 

[chetan]

But why is this?

He's only 29 and for most athletes this is when they are at their peak. Sprinters usually peak between 27-30 and endurance and strength athletes haven't reached their peak yet at that age.

To what extent have his injuries impacted on his abilities? If injuries have not significantly contributed to his decline, you have to wonder what he is doing in his private life that might explain why he has prematurely gone over the hill. Even if his current lack of form is a blip and he regains some confidence and starts scoring again, it is clear to everyone that he is no longer at the physical level he was at 5 years ago. Something just doesn't add up.

Maybe that's not the case with Rooney he started his career at 16. Usually players peak at 27-30 but he might be an exception and has already peaked. I guess it was Scholes who said this that 2009-2012 was the peak of Rooney and day by day it feels that there is some truth to this. He never had any career threatening injury like Falcao so can't blame on injuries.
Also, I doubt he has the determination of someone like Giggs or Ronaldo to take care of his body or modify his game as in the case of Giggs.

 

[SteveJ]

Let's think at this for a minute, why is Rooney so highly regarded. When he came to UTD he was the best young English talent, UTD being an English club + being the best club in the league made him what he is today and obviously leading the line for his country. Now he is clearly on the wane, can he still produce for club and country? England have Sturridge, Welbeck, Kane, Berahino, Ings + Austin, out of them its debatable that Sturridge, Welbeck and Kane can produce and provide more than what Rooney can and this is where I'm starting to think, is Rooney irreplaceable? No, I think if UTD got let's say for arguments sake Harry Kane he could quite possibly take Rooneys place and become the Commercial face of the club and therefore country as well. I'd be willing to take that chance with Kane because let's face it, commercial revenue is important to a club and its time a new kid took over the mantle.

There's an argument that having Rooney as the club's symbol (so to speak) is rather apt right now: a fading star matched with United's fading glory and status. While he's the symbol of the club, it's a tacit admission that we're paying lip service to United's reputation of being the biggest and best club in name only - though our Captain being both skipper of the club and of England sounds very impressive and something to be proud of, it really isn't while those two esteemed outfits are winning...nothing at all. And this want of genuine success may well continue if we keep on doing the very thing we've always mocked our rivals for; living in the past, with accompanying unmerited pride wholly unjustified by present achievements.

 

[ZDwyr]

The reaction would be the same. He got plenty of deserved criticism for his performances vs Spurs/Villa which we won.

Fact is he's been woeful but I don't hold it against LVG if he doesn't go and get a striker, there's a real lack of quality available right now.

Yeah but he was better against Newcastle than he was in those other two. I am not saying he wouldn't have escaped criticism, but it would not have been as severe.

 

[santeria13]

From a self proclaimed 'Rooney hater', I actually thought he was one of the better attacking players today. His performance was also an improvement on that vs Brugge. One nice flick does not constitute a good performance in my eyes. And for some reason, I felt quite sorry for him with the disallowed goal.At the end of the day, I want him to do well this season because our title challenge and run in other competitions largely depends on his form. Maybe I'm just feeling a little emotional but yeah I honestly do hope he finds his feet.

 

[Ronnie O'Sullivan]

There's an argument that having Rooney as the club's symbol (so to speak) is rather apt right now: a fading star matched with United's fading glory and status. While he's the symbol of the club, it's a tacit admission that we're paying lip service to United's reputation of being the biggest and best club in name only - though our Captain being both skipper of the club and of England sounds very impressive and something to be proud of, it really isn't while those two esteemed outfits are winning...nothing at all. And this want of genuine success may well continue if we keep on doing the very thing we've always mocked our rivals for; living in the past, with accompanying unmerited pride wholly unjustified by present achievements.

Couldn't have said it better. My fear is that we might go down the path of Liverpool, always there but never taken seriously anymore.

 

[Treble]

Yeah, what an utterly ridiculous suggestion.

I mean its not like Bony was the highest scoring PL player in 2014, or that Benteke had a 1 in 2 record playing for a very poor Villa side.

The idea on here that lesser name players can't be as good as the 'star names' is so irritating. I swear people just see the name, and completely ignore whats actually happening on the pitch.

That's a very good point. A lot of people are blinded by names and neglect what happens on the pitch. As things stand, Rooney lacks several things to be a successful United striker:

(1) He's lost his explosivity and thus couldn't get the better of defenders in most situations. He may be quick over 50 yards (I believe he is) but he is slow over 10 yards and this is more important, particuarly for a possession oriented style of play.

(2) His first touch and close control in tight spaces is average and thus his hold up play couldn't help the team significantly and he couldn't create enough space and chances for himself.

(3) He lacks the height and the physical strength to bully defenders and win duels in the air.

The combination of these three things means that Rooney may score goals but not enough for United to be successful. Even if he somehow scores 7-8 goals over the next 7-8 EPL games (it won't happen), he will inevitably suffer another prolonged goalscoring drought. The sooner United sell him the better. Otherwise, there is a distinct possibility that both United and Rooney become a laughing stock. This may sound now quite exaggerated but it is true.

Read the thread on Rooney's new contract from 13/14 season and you'll see that some posters predicted the current situation 18 months ago.

 

[AbusementPark]

He performed better when he was dropped off the front behind Chicharito. Yesterday he lacked strength, pace and first touch, even his passing wasn't great. We need a striker to perform all the time and not in bursts. Aguero performs consistently for City and we need someone like this at United, I'm all for giving Chicharito a chance up front as his pace and movement is superior to Rooney.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

There's huge difference in there situations. Rooney is on 300k a weak, our captain and the 'face of our team', furthermore he isnt refusing to play for this club unlike DDG and we dont have good competition for him. Although our u18 striker could basically do what he does weekly for us.

No wonder his play is a bit ugly then. Sorry.

 

[K2K]

He's just not very good at anything anymore is he? He's decent at a lot of things, but has no standout feature to his game. He's probably not even in a list of top 10 of PL strikers these days, never mind top 10 players.

I honestly don't think he's as good as the likes of Bony and Benteke anymore, never mind Aguero and Costa.

Giroud, yes him, has outscored Rooney in every season he has had in English foootball..and I wouldnt be suprised if he did again this season.

 

[Raees]

Was he unlucky with the offside goal? yes but all strikers have that happen to them throughout a game, that doesn't excuse the fact that bar that one chance he did not get himself into a clear cut scoring opportunity or look a genuine threat for the remainder of the game.

 

[Lawman]

Yeah, what an utterly ridiculous suggestion.

I mean its not like Bony was the highest scoring PL player in 2014, or that Benteke had a 1 in 2 record playing for a very poor Villa side.

The idea on here that lesser name players can't be as good as the 'star names' is so irritating. I swear people just see the name, and completely ignore whats actually happening on the pitch.

Bony and Benteke are lumps of wood who I have watched on numerous occasions. I'm frustrated as much as you but both them are a step or two down from Rooney. If you suggested they might be better in this system then that would be harder to argue with.

 

[lilcurt]

That's a very good point. A lot of people are blinded by names and neglect what happens on the pitch. As things stand, Rooney lacks several things to be a successful United striker:

(1) He's lost his explosivity and thus couldn't get the better of defenders in most situations. He may be quick over 50 yards (I believe he is) but he is slow over 10 yards and this is more important, particuarly for a possession oriented style of play.

(2) His first touch and close control in tight spaces is average and thus his hold up play couldn't help the team significantly and he couldn't create enough space and chances for himself.

(3) He lacks the height and the physical strength to bully defenders and win duels in the air.

The combination of these three things means that Rooney may score goals but not enough for United to be successful. Even if he somehow scores 7-8 goals over the next 7-8 EPL games (it won't happened), he will inevitably suffer another prolonged goalscoring drought. The sooner United sell him the better. Otherwise, there is a distinct possibility that both United and Rooney become a laughing stock. This may sound now quite exaggerated but it is true.

Read the thread on Rooney's new contract from season 13/14 and you'll see that some posters predicted the current situation 18 months ago.

This sums the situation up pretty well I think. Most clubs have a tendency to hang on to players too long, hoping that they will return to the player who did so much in years past.

He was made captain due to there being a real lack of leaders in the squad, you could argue that he isn't a great leader himself but thats by-the-by. Ultimately he needs to be replaced, I don't think the club will bring someone in to supersede him as it will cause too much fuss. Therefore the only way to get a top striker in is for Rooney to go and sadly that isn't happening this season.

 

[United again!]

Was he unlucky with the offside goal? yes but all strikers have that happen to them throughout a game, that doesn't excuse the fact that bar that one chance he did not get himself into a clear cut scoring opportunity or look a genuine threat for the remainder of the game.

Actually watched it again today, Coloccini switched off pretty early in the piece with his arm up. I think he would have probably got a slide in there somewhere and altered the path of events had he not pulled up.

 

[JPRouve]

Was he unlucky with the offside goal? yes but all strikers have that happen to them throughout a game, that doesn't excuse the fact that bar that one chance he did not get himself into a clear cut scoring opportunity or look a genuine threat for the remainder of the game.

He spent his game drifting outside or trying to regulate the midfield, as if he was needed there, tactically he manages to destroy our attacking shape by himself, he is supposed to be the head of the spear but he refuses to play that role.

 

[Ixion]

When he is captain he becomes too obsessed with being a teamplayer, he needs to become more selfish, take some defenders on, shoot from distance.

 

[lilcurt]

Bony and Benteke are lumps of wood who I have watched on numerous occasions. I'm frustrated as much as you but both them are a step or two down from Rooney. If you suggested they might be better in this system then that would be harder to argue with.

A strikers job is to score goals, if both of them can score more goals than Rooney now then how are they a step or two down. You are judging Rooney on what he did years ago not how he is today. Today he isn't even one of the top 6 forwards in the league, below is a list of forwards who put into our system I honestly believe would deliver more (no particular order):

• Sturridge (when fit)
• Benteke
• Aguero
• Costa
• Giroud
• Lukaku
• Kane

Maybes

• Charlie Austin
• Bony
• Berahino

I judge this on form over the last 18 months.

To give a little more perspective here are Rooney's goal stats for the past few seasons.


2012–13 - 16
2013–14 - 19
2014–15 - 14
2015–16 - 0

Now 14-15 you could write off as being in midfield for half the season but for me those stats from all competitions just aren't a top striker.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

A strikers job is to score goals, if both of them can score more goals than Rooney now then how are they a step or two down. You are judging Rooney on what he did years ago not how he is today. Today he isn't even one of the top 6 forwards in the league, below is a list of forwards who put into our system I honestly believe would deliver more (no particular order):

• Sturridge (when fit)
• Benteke
• Aguero
• Costa
• Giroud
• Lukaku
• Kane

Maybes

• Charlie Austin
• Bony
• Berahino

I judge this on form over the last 18 months.

To give a little more perspective here are Rooney's goal stats for the past few seasons.


2012–13 - 16
2013–14 - 19
2014–15 - 14
2015–16 - 0

Now 14-15 you could write off as being in midfield for half the season but for me those stats from all competitions just aren't a top striker.

Those are to me the return I would be expecting from a 2nd striker, with your main striker getting towards 30 goals. Unfortunately Wayne atm is our main striker. If we had a top class strikers as No. 1 those amount of goals would be valuable.

 

[Lawman]

A strikers job is to score goals, if both of them can score more goals than Rooney now then how are they a step or two down. You are judging Rooney on what he did years ago not how he is today. Today he isn't even one of the top 6 forwards in the league, below is a list of forwards who put into our system I honestly believe would deliver more (no particular order):

• Sturridge (when fit)
• Benteke
• Aguero
• Costa
• Giroud
• Lukaku
• Kane

Maybes

• Charlie Austin
• Bony
• Berahino

I judge this on form over the last 18 months.

To give a little more perspective here are Rooney's goal stats for the past few seasons.


2012–13 - 16
2013–14 - 19
2014–15 - 14
2015–16 - 0

Now 14-15 you could write off as being in midfield for half the season but for me those stats from all competitions just aren't a top striker.

And yet he scores his goals more from a number 10? Costa and Augero I'll not debate as I agree, Kane we don't know yet. But the rest are way off in my opinion. You say you are judging this on the last 18 months and you have Sturridge on this list?

 

[Jaapster]

People are complicating the situation with Rooney , Even when I managed a kids football team I knew all about strikers that played for opposing teams
Now premier league teams have 1000 times more knowledge of players, they have dossiers on players strengths and weaknesses.
Quite simply he has been sussed, now for a young player they have to work on things to improve their fitness,touch, strength, everything to improve
their game, he just has to work his arse off to improve his game, Can he improve ? course he can, everybody can improve little things they do wrong.
Does he want to with no competition for his place? I cannot answer that.

 

[Rozay]

I think not matey, I hated Rooney before hating rooney was cool.

As did I. Well, not 'hate', but I've thought he was rubbish for a few years anyway.

 

[lilcurt]

And yet he scores his goals more from a number 10? Costa and Augero I'll not debate as I agree, Kane we don't know yet. But the rest are way off in my opinion. You say you are judging this on the last 18 months and you have Sturridge on this list?

With Sturridge I did say when fit. When fit he is a top forward for me, admittedly he is nowhere near fit enough but this is more judging IMO forwards that being fit and in our team would be better than Rooney. For me Charlie Austin would do exactly the same as Rooney now but probably get you a couple more goals.

Giroud for example has scored more goals than Rooney each season since he came to the prem.

 

[entropy]

He is clearly getting frustrated with his performance. I really hope for his sake and ours he scores in the next game.

 

[Lawman]

With Sturridge I did say when fit. When fit he is a top forward for me, admittedly he is nowhere near fit enough but this is more judging IMO forwards that being fit and in our team would be better than Rooney. For me Charlie Austin would do exactly the same as Rooney now but probably get you a couple more goals.

Giroud for example has scored more goals than Rooney each season since he came to the prem.

But Giroud and Rooney have both played different roles? I'm not going to debate Austin as I think that's not even up for debate. Compare Austin with Darren Bent or Steven Fletcher not Wayne Rooney for feck sake.

 

[wiz4231]

There's an argument that having Rooney as the club's symbol (so to speak) is rather apt right now: a fading star matched with United's fading glory and status. While he's the symbol of the club, it's a tacit admission that we're paying lip service to United's reputation of being the biggest and best club in name only - though our Captain being both skipper of the club and of England sounds very impressive and something to be proud of, it really isn't while those two esteemed outfits are winning...nothing at all. And this want of genuine success may well continue if we keep on doing the very thing we've always mocked our rivals for; living in the past, with accompanying unmerited pride wholly unjustified by present achievements.

Good post and nicely put. I don't think UTD are living in past on former glory, it hasn't been long since they won the league but as Fergie knew Rooney has started to fade and to win the league in his last season he had to bring a clinical striker in Van Persie if he wanted to win it again. If we continue using Rooney as the main man and the face of UTD as you say we will fall into the trap that we mock our rivals for, as many posters believe that Rooney can lead the line for us but forget that the last time he did was 4/5 years ago and he was 24/25 at the time, its been a long time and that fire he once had is almost out. It's time we bring in someone with more desire, more fire, something to prove and the way this league is now someone with more of a physical presence, height and strenght. I'm not the biggest fan of Kane but for some reason I think he can be that man, the new face of UTD.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

In the second half I was pretty much in line with Newcastle's back line and that gave me a great view on Rooney's movement, or lack of it. Depay Mata and Januzaj could've all had better final ball, but I struggle to see how they can create chances for a forward who isn't gambling and making runs.

I thought he was shocking. He's lucky it wasn't him who missed the best chance of the game.

 

[RedMachine03]

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Yea it's definitely anyone's fault but his.

 

[SteveJ]

Barclay's comments seem more apt, not those of people lining up to write Wayne's 422nd 'autobiography'.

 

[montpelier]

What's the 'appropriate' way of dealing with a player that is the current icon of Man Utd, the captain with a 300k wage, but one who clearly isn't playing on the required level?

nobbled in training?

 

[hp88]

nobbled in training?

Get Phil Jones on it.

 

[goin4glory]

Yeah but he was better against Newcastle than he was in those other two. I am not saying he wouldn't have escaped criticism, but it would not have been as severe.

He was absolutely appalling vs Villa, top 5 worst games I've seen him play. Just because he was better than that doesn't mean he was anywhere close to the standard we need.

 

[Orton]

People should look back and ask themselves when was this mans last match winning performance for us? You know, the kind of match where he actually looked like a top player and delivered.

 

[entropy]

He was absolutely appalling vs Villa, top 5 worst games I've seen him play. Just because he was better than that doesn't mean he was anywhere close to the standard we need.

Atleast he is getting better. He has always been shite early on in the season. It's nothing new but now he has the added responsibility of being our top scorer.

 

[psychdelicblues]

He's getting the david moyes treatment, where the press will blame everyone else but him...thats why you cant take of the press seriously at all

Indeed. Exhibit A....

Exhibit B......

There's an argument that having Rooney as the club's symbol (so to speak) is rather apt right now: a fading star matched with United's fading glory and status. While he's the symbol of the club, it's a tacit admission that we're paying lip service to United's reputation of being the biggest and best club in name only - though our Captain being both skipper of the club and of England sounds very impressive and something to be proud of, it really isn't while those two esteemed outfits are winning...nothing at all. And this want of genuine success may well continue if we keep on doing the very thing we've always mocked our rivals for; living in the past, with accompanying unmerited pride wholly unjustified by present achievements.

Good post. It's like the emperors new clothes. The illusion of a world class player but the reality is he has been living on a reputation of what he did 4 or 5 years ago. United are in the middle of a rebuilding process and getting rid of him will be part of that process if they want to be competitive both in the PL and in Europe.

 

[goin4glory]

Indeed. Exhibit A....



Exhibit B......




Good post. It's like the emperors new clothes. The illusion of a world class player but the reality is he has been living on a reputation of what he did 4 or 5 years ago. United are in the middle of a rebuilding process and getting rid of him will be part of that process if they want to be competitive both in the PL and in Europe.

Yeah I agree, if anything it's Rooney whose hurting Mata. Mata need's a striker with movement that plays on the shoulder of defenders he can feed, he's got no where to go with Rooney constantly dropping deep and wanting the ball to feet.

 

[Born2Lose]

I really don't get this "he wasn't bad".. "he played better" stuff.. he's not Januzaj or Depay, he's the captain of our team and supposedly at his peak age. He gets paid a hell of a lot of money and is happy to have his ugly mug plastered on any bit of worthless tat going.

I wonder if this is really Wayne's real problem, there's always people to make excuses for him.

I genuinely can't think of a Man Utd player I have disliked more than Rooney. Hernandez may or not be a better option, but I'd certainly feel happier about seeing him on the pitch than Rooney every week.

 

[K2K]

Indeed. Exhibit A....


Good post. It's like the emperors new clothes. The illusion of a world class player but the reality is he has been living on a reputation of what he did 4 or 5 years ago. United are in the middle of a rebuilding process and getting rid of him will be part of that process if they want to be competitive both in the PL and in Europe.

Ogden is a Rooney fanboy..After the Preseason where Rooney and Depay partnership looked out of sorts and was promptly abandoned by LVG he wrote this:



After watching the preseason games I didnt know whether he had watched any of the games...Its that kind of thinking that makes me ignore much of what these hacks write

 

[Born2Lose]

Ogden is a Rooney fanboy..After the Preseason where Rooney and Depay partnership looked out of sorts and was promptly abandoned by LVG he wrote this:



After watching the preseason games I didnt know whether he had watched any of the games...Its that kind of thinking that makes me ignore much of what these hacks write

Wow, never had time for this bloke and never understood why he is held in such high regard on this place. Whenever I see him in the press conferences he comes across as really gormless.

I remember around the time that Rooney was linked with Bayern a while ago, they had Honigstein on Sunday supplement and he basically laughed and said that a club like Bayern would never try to sign a player like Rooney whose lack of professionalism makes him a bit of a joke in Germany.