Even when he signed this contract many people here were not happy at all with it.
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I think he still has all the same things he had before, but he's just not showing it as he can't handle playing every week and for 90 minutes. He needs to change his role in terms of how much he runs around on the pitch, and in terms of how much he actually plays. Definitely think being turned into a squad player would make him more fresh and pretty much every part of his game would be hugely improved compared to what it is now.
And rightly so. A lot of people called it that the club would be stuck with him.
The thing that gets me is, even in his younger, fitter years, he wasn't playing 90 minutes every game. It's all very strange and kind explains why some people are thinking there might be something in his contract.
There have been a few posters mentioning the system not suiting him, and while that doesnt excuse his current inability to do the basics I do wonder if there is something in that, he doesnt exactly come across as the brightest tool in the box, so could the slow patient game be giving him too much time to think? If you look back at his most magic moments they are almost all instinctive moments of brilliance, where he doesnt have to think but just lets his skill take over.
I think it's his intellligence in general that fails him. I agree the system calls for patient build up but it also requires A LOT of movement off the ball that he doesn't give and acceleration in both the speed the ball is played and bursts of movement during those accelerated passages of play. He obviously doesn't offer much in either scenario.
I think he already changed that tbf.
Apart from the last game against City which he actually looked up to it in terms of running and chasing down everything(what he didn't show in that game is the quality on the ball), he is actually quite reserved when we are out of possession, and he rarely does any pressing anymore. Most of his running is when we have the ball, only problem is that he isn't making good runs, but I think it's quite obvious this season that he isn't running a lot when we don't have the ball, but is actually telling other people where to press and when to run while he just stands keeping shape and trying to read the play mostly.
Someone posted that analysis after the Everton game which was quite funny, IMO, but it had few gifs where you could notice it quite easily. Van Gaal is using him this season completely differently in comparision with someone like Moyes who wanted him to show his old energy.
You might be into something if he can pass 10 yard to his team mates atleast.
It's the basic that he fails at, basic like winning header, first touch and short pass.
No amount of leadership and silent dominations can be deemed good enough in place of the basic.
It's like having a posh sound system on a car with a flat tire.
I wasn't talking about that, nor praising him for anything. I just said that I think he already changed his game to help him being better when in possession, but he looks even worse now.
id say a lot of our players would prefer and excel under another manager. What we are giving up in flair we seem to gain in an organized unit. Cant keep moving the planets inline for this guy though. the players dont suit him, the position doesnt suit him, the manager doesnt suit him, style of play doesnt suit him etc
That's what I'm trying to say, the problem is bigger than simply trying to fit in to the philosophy, the problem is he suddenly become a pub player who can't trap/pass a ball, no amount of tactics/formation can benefit from a player that fails at the basic.
And I disagree, unless LVG instructed him it's always as if he's hidding behind the opponent, he makes himself unvailable for a pass, if you watch the game closely he'll take a pass, pass it back, and just jog into the nearest defender and stay there.
no one is going to find him with a ball unless they're xavi.
I am not sure you get what I was trying to say.
He'd not be any good as a squad player, Scholes legs went but as long as we were on top and could protect him his passing was still an asset, Giggs was a naturally gifted, skillful player with lots of creativity who took care of his body and was genetically suited to playing longer with his wiry build.
Rooney is not a great passer and is the opposite of Giggs when it comes to genes and looking after himself. His game was about explosiveness over the first 10 yards combined with his power and endless energy, these are the things that defenders feared and that got him in positions for goals. He doesn't have any of these attributes anymore and them fading has exposed his average passing game and erratic first touch much more severely.
Rooney is not a great passer and is the opposite of Giggs when it comes to genes and looking after himself. His game was about explosiveness over the first 10 yards combined with his power and endless energy, these are the things that defenders feared and that got him in positions for goals. He doesn't have any of these attributes anymore and them fading has exposed his average passing game and erratic first touch much more severely.
He also wouldn't be a good squad player because there is no way he would quietly accept that. He'd kick up a fuss like the last time he was rightly dropped under Fergie and we'd get the usual PR campaign by his team.
I honestly think the best scenario is to just accept Van Gaal won't drop him, let him stumble through the rest of the season and then in the Summer start the process of getting rid. Although the testimonial in the Summer sort of ruins that dream.
I really don't think I could bear to watch Rooney as our main striker for 2 or 3 more years, it's so depressing.
I honestly think the best scenario is to just accept Van Gaal won't drop him, let him stumble through the rest of the season and then in the Summer start the process of getting rid. Although the testimonial in the Summer sort of ruins that dream.
I really don't think I could bear to watch Rooney as our main striker for 2 or 3 more years, it's so depressing.
He is shite.
Shame he's going to be rested. Probably his best chance to get on the score sheet for a bit.
if he continues to under-perform and is dropped then they really don't have a case to "play the victim." we've given him fair bit of chances to perform already and he's failed to do so.
A pity that the "we" there clearly doesn't include LvG end-to-end. It does in the sense that he's the one that's given him the chances, but he's clearly in no mood to jettison the captain just yet...
He already got on the score sheet a few times this season, hasn't made a difference to his overall performances in the games after.
Xavi Hernandez continues to speak utter madness. Qatar is a lovely place and Rooney can play in midfield.
Xavi said:
I wouldn't say it's madness at all. Quite measured in fact. He's saying he's finished as a striker and it's time for him to learn to adapt. He's not saying he's a midfielder now, just that he's an intelligent player so he should be able to adapt.
I thought we had given that a trial last year with disappointing results? Maybe news of Rooney's lacks of control and passing accuracy has been slow to reach Qatar.
He said "if he can adapt". He recognises that it's a process and that he won't suddenly be a great midfielder. He's also saying he's a shit striker now, I don't get what's mad about it.
Neither, actually seems a very good assessment from Xavi, if anything. He has a very good understanding of the game, would be interesting to see how he'd fare as a coach or manager.
But managing and coaching requires more than just a good understanding of the game! I'm not sure how he would handle big time Charlies in a team.@Pexbo hes saying Rooney can play at the top level for another 5-6 years if he can adapt. That's nonsense. As a top level player, he's done. He doesn't have the first touch to dictate a game from the centre, his passing range is actually quite limited, and his positional awareness leaves a lot to be desired for. So moving deeper will cause us more problems.
Playing this brand of football also exposed how poor his first touch is, and although everyone know about it, in the past it was masked with different brand of football played under SAF. Think that best example is THAT goal against City, everyone remember him scoring the screamer, but what people fail to remember is how he almost cost us that chance with poorly passed ball to Berbatov who tried to play 1-2 with him. But somehow Scholes got the ball, gave it to Nani and we know the rest. Nowdays when he fails simple pass it's more noticable because of techical football that's been played, and the lack of action in final third, shame how he's fallen from the grace, but since no one is bigger than the club really hope LVG sits him on the bench, sooner the better!
I think his poor performance is partly due to his captain position, as the manager said it himself Rooney is an automatic start. This is causing Rooney to relax too much, because he knows he doesn't have to work for a place in the team. Which is causing his ability to play, which effects his touch, his passing choices, his lack of goals, his effort etc. The domino effect.
Rooney has to be dropped not for the squads benefit to play decent football, but for himself aswell to improve his performance again. I just imagine if LVG did come into the club and slammed the starting sheet on Rooney's lap and say "you're benched, if you wanna get off it show me that you deserve to be in team both in training & on the pitch". We would probably see a different Rooney right now, either a sulking one or the one who works hard and scores alot of goals to prove he is the main guy. LVG is doing that to every other player except Rooney. These special treatments have to stop and if Rooney wants to start being a proper captain, he would of told the manager himself to drop him.
Rooney has to be dropped not for the squads benefit to play decent football, but for himself aswell to improve his performance again. I just imagine if LVG did come into the club and slammed the starting sheet on Rooney's lap and say "you're benched, if you wanna get off it show me that you deserve to be in team both in training & on the pitch". We would probably see a different Rooney right now, either a sulking one or the one who works hard and scores alot of goals to prove he is the main guy. LVG is doing that to every other player except Rooney. These special treatments have to stop and if Rooney wants to start being a proper captain, he would of told the manager himself to drop him.
How do you know he's going to be rested?
He was a bit shit already under Moyes, in the second half of the season (13/14). His form has everything to do with his loss of explosiveness and agility and very little with his captancy.
I think Rooney's intelligence is a bit overstated. He has an eye for a pass but his mind doesn't strike me as particularly quick. Besides, there is no such thing as a monolytic footballing intelligence. A defender can be very intelligent with regard to his duties and a bit thick when it comes to reading the game in midfield or attack. Being intelligent as a forward doesn't guarantee that you are intelligent as a playmaker or a midfielder or a defender. There are different types of footballing intelligence. Rooney's intelligence may be suited to a particular kind of position and particular kind of attacking football. To say that he's intelligent per se would be imprecise.
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was going to say the exact same thing. It's literally like he's lost the ability to shoot and control the ball over the last year or two. He's just not good enough for our first XI based on his form over the last 2 years
That's why i said partly. I'm not excusing him at all because i do agree his ability to play in general is coming to the point where we question that can he play at the highest level week in & week out. What i'm saying is when you see players like Totti, Raul, Giggs etc who lost alot of pace in their game, they adapt their playing style differently to accommodate for the team and also work there arse off to keep playing for that team until the point where they can no longer play. This is where i think being captain and receiving special privileges is not doing any favors for Rooney. Why?
How i see it Rooney is not working hard enough. You probably seeing Memphis working his balls off to get back into starting line up and to prove the manager he is the future but Rooney... he's chilling, not working extra training on his touches, not working extra training on his passing, not doing much target practice etc and full well knows he's going to start next game anyways. I'm not saying that's what's happening because he maybe is but how i see Rooney on the pitch, i dont see effort in him anymore. With his experience his touch should be cool as ice and the passing should be as accurate but instead he looks like a donkey playing football. Which makes me think with all these privileges he's getting is causing him to be too relaxed, not threatened in terms of his position within the squad and doesn't make an effort to work on the part of his game which is causing him problems etc is partly causing his performance on the pitch to be so poor. Obviously numberous thing also in play that also causing Rooney play this poor like the different style of play, new players, his ability play in general etc. But the captain armband in my opinon is poorly worn and it should go to someone who deserves to be on that pitch week in & week out, has leadership qualities and has experience under his belt.
Against competition at a similar level. Brugge, Sunderland, Ipswich...
Maybe that is his level now.
I dont think LvG is so naive to select Rooney if he is just chilling out in training.
And where did you get Memphis working his socks off. Hardly saw any progress from his first PL game to the point he was dropped.
And what level do you consider Middlesbrough to be at?
+1 - a good summary of the current situation, mostly caused by LvG. Hes done well in msot other departments but this Rooney blind spot must gall other players who can see how sh*t hes been playing of course they won't say it as he has too much power at the club but he should be benched until he improves on the pitch.
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