30 today!
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10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Firstly I agree with others that yes absolutely LVG should get criticism for his continued insistence on playing Rooney i.e not giving him the best chance to make an impact (off the bench/rested for a game) AND tactics. I've always said this and I'm pretty sure most others have too.
That ends there.
For me, performance on the pitch is the only thing I care about (you know unless they're a super cnut off the pitch) so the contract/transfer/quotes saga don't affect my opinion of him at all when I'm watching the game.
So now we can judge him purely on performance on the pitch. Is he a bad player? No if you was to compare him to other players in the premier league. Is he arguably Utd's worse player? Yes, yes and yes.
You could argue Memphis, Darmian, Valencia, Fellani and Young have been the ones consistently 'worse' (this is me stretching it to make it fair and give you an indiction of my rational thinking). However, they can all be 'excused' or have things put into context because new league, young/inexperience, not a lot of game time and being asked to played out of positon.
They have all got criticism and stick whenever they have performed badly but they've all been playing very limited minutes. Rooney does not get disportionate stick, he's get consistent criticism (which is completely justified) and that is more apparent because he plays every single game of every single minute.
What does 'quality service mean'? If you mean fantastic balls crossed into the box every 5 mins, defence splitting 1-on-1s through balls, square balls for tap-ins etc, then yes I'd agreed with you that Rooney hasn't received this. However, this isn't the 90's/00's anymore and although with the talent in our team, we should be expecting to be creating those sort of chances consistently, it should have no bearing on how we judge him because there are many other things he can do/provide.
Like what? Making runs off and towards the ball, receiving the ball in tight spaces/back to defender, playing 1-2s, attacking the channels to force the space/pass, beating a man himself etc etc. For every 1 thing of these he does 'well', he fails 3-4 of them. How can this be a Utd standard player?
I don't care about what he did in the past or am hoping he recaptures his early youth explosiveness, I simply ask for a team player, who can make effective plays on his own merits; is that a big ask?
ESPN FC publish a piece on his decline under the headline "Remembering Rooney at His Best". A career eulogy on his 30th birthday.
http://www.espnfc.us/club/mancheste...701/wayne-rooney-decline-at-manchester-united
http://www.espnfc.us/club/mancheste...701/wayne-rooney-decline-at-manchester-united
Not going to happen.
Physically shot? Right, focus on the other sides of your game and re-invent yourself.
But wait..
Rooney's all round play is pretty average if not, downright shite (passing, first touch, movement, even leadership).
So no, it's very unlikely that's on the cards but hey, don't let any of that evidence get in the way of the dream of him shoving it all back in our faces.
Nailed it.
15/16 may in the end be a lost season for Rooney and it's clear that it's all down to a lack of fitness. The man has played 700 games for club and country, very few of those games for less than 90 minutes. And he just doesn't take care of his body the way Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Keane and Ronaldo did (does).
The answer is that he has to play fewer games this season and use his time between games to concentrate on attaining genuine top fitness for a professional footballer. Two matches a week for him right nowi is complete madness and will result in continued dire play and eventually in a significant injury. Louis can gear up for a treble run next season by getting Rooney fit this season. We've got the squad to put on a great show week after week without Rooney twice a week.
There's no defense for his current horrid form. It's embarrassing. But Roo hasn't forgotten how to play football. He just needs to re-energize his mind and body. He owes it to the club to acknowledge this and take the time he needs to pull himself together. He can buy himself two more great seasons with us if uses this season wisely.
The answer is that he has to play fewer games this season and use his time between games to concentrate on attaining genuine top fitness for a professional footballer. Two matches a week for him right nowi is complete madness and will result in continued dire play and eventually in a significant injury. Louis can gear up for a treble run next season by getting Rooney fit this season. We've got the squad to put on a great show week after week without Rooney twice a week.
There's no defense for his current horrid form. It's embarrassing. But Roo hasn't forgotten how to play football. He just needs to re-energize his mind and body. He owes it to the club to acknowledge this and take the time he needs to pull himself together. He can buy himself two more great seasons with us if uses this season wisely.
Mate. You missed the part where other players either have to play out of their position or get benched because of "Captain always play".
8/10
To be fair, one argument would be that he brings leadership to the pitch. He is always pulling the strings, calling out to his teammates - retaining shape, pressing efficiently and maintaining discipline. He is vocal with referees, and is one of the few players who ups his work rate and desire (to whatever sad results) when the score is against us. No other player can replace that.
A starting lineup of Martial in front of Mata, Herrera and Depay would look great on paper - but who's the leader there? Who brings the mental aspect into the game? Martial is a teenager. Mata is too nice, Herrera isn't assured of a starting place and needs to be pulled back when pressing or calmed down when tackling, and Depay is 21 and off form and new to the league.
Smalling looks promising as a future captain, though this is his first season where he is performing at such a brilliant level, but you need a leader up front, too. One would think Schweini can provide the leadership further down the pitch, but he is still new to the dressing room, is the first German in a United team, isn't guaranteed 90 minutes every game or even a start every game, and still needs games under his belt. Maybe next season.
I am in the #dropRooney camp, don't get me wrong. Just providing counter arguments.
Edit: Just for reference, I'm listing out players who I think bring leadership in attack at other top teams, be it in terms of leading by inspirational example, or simply providing the maturity and calmness (or the fire, when necessary) for others to bounce off.
Arsenal: Sanchez
City: Aguero, Silva, Yaya
Chelsea: Costa, Hazard
Bayern: Muller, Vidal
Barca: Mess, Neymar
Real: Ronaldo, Benzema
PSG: Zlatan, Cavani
A starting lineup of Martial in front of Mata, Herrera and Depay would look great on paper - but who's the leader there? Who brings the mental aspect into the game? Martial is a teenager. Mata is too nice, Herrera isn't assured of a starting place and needs to be pulled back when pressing or calmed down when tackling, and Depay is 21 and off form and new to the league.
Smalling looks promising as a future captain, though this is his first season where he is performing at such a brilliant level, but you need a leader up front, too. One would think Schweini can provide the leadership further down the pitch, but he is still new to the dressing room, is the first German in a United team, isn't guaranteed 90 minutes every game or even a start every game, and still needs games under his belt. Maybe next season.
I am in the #dropRooney camp, don't get me wrong. Just providing counter arguments.
Edit: Just for reference, I'm listing out players who I think bring leadership in attack at other top teams, be it in terms of leading by inspirational example, or simply providing the maturity and calmness (or the fire, when necessary) for others to bounce off.
Arsenal: Sanchez
City: Aguero, Silva, Yaya
Chelsea: Costa, Hazard
Bayern: Muller, Vidal
Barca: Mess, Neymar
Real: Ronaldo, Benzema
PSG: Zlatan, Cavani
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The golden standard for praising Rooney now is he managed to control a high ball under pressure during the build up to a goal that was provided by a superb cross from Rojo.
Just let that sink in.
Now you can come to the conclusion: he's shit.
Just let that sink in.
Now you can come to the conclusion: he's shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/3pe49r/a_closer_look_at_the_everton_game/
Watch the gifs in that lengthy post. :P
His leadership qualities are overstated. You seriously cannot be telling me that it is enough to compensate for the poor quality of his football.
I am saying he is the only leader we have on the business end of the pitch. And I don't think they are overstated. Underrated, more like.
But I agree, it doesn't compensate for the shit he doles out every week these days.
What, he has passed 30? Time to head out to the retirement home in the States old guy.
Can still see zero quality service BS being spouted in this thread. Martial has proven its bullshit. Martial doesn't have two heads. Martial was looking our most dangerous player with the same service. Rooney was still poor when he dropped to the No 10 position.
Some have given examples of players that have gone on to reinvent themselves, Giggs being the major one. First, those kind of players are in the minority. Second, we can't afford to wait for him to reinvent himself. It's not as if his poor form just started this season also. This team can't carry passengers for a sustained period. I trust LVG to make a judgement at the end of the season concerning him.
Some have given examples of players that have gone on to reinvent themselves, Giggs being the major one. First, those kind of players are in the minority. Second, we can't afford to wait for him to reinvent himself. It's not as if his poor form just started this season also. This team can't carry passengers for a sustained period. I trust LVG to make a judgement at the end of the season concerning him.
And rightly so. He is the club captain, the highest profile United player, on huge wages who plays every minute when fit despite being poor this season.
You're either blind or ignorant. Go ahead clip out everytime he touches the ball in that game and we can count together how many pub player passes he make.
You choose the best of him and discounted the rest.
He's not going to shove anything down anyone's throats at all..its the same thing you see when other great players have shown great decline in the past, their fans holding on to the diminishing hope that somehow , anyhow, they will turn it around and go back to whatever great level they once showed.
Just go to the Falcao and RVP threads, they were still people saying similar things even near the end of the last season. Shevchenko, Torres too when it happened to them, people just cant seem to comprehend that their hero is no longer what he once was, in the face of insurmountable evidence. Its a coping mechanism, at this point whatever supposed level Rooney will get back to simply isn't good enough for a club of our stature. His perfomances almost every week tell that better than I ever could.
He's the worst of the lot of that front four this season, so he is certainly not leading by example, we need that more than him being vocal.
What I was thinking. If I was one of our other attackers on he end of a Rooney rant, I would give him a piece of my mind right here on the pitch.
Would get dirty very quickly, and you would just get yourself dropped.
Deep down,even Rooney knows he's playing crap. I wouldnt risk my spot as a player to do that. He's far too protected at the club. Its all politics, but sometimes you have to choose your battles. I'd praise his long balls instead.
"Nice one captain, best side to side passes I have seen in a while"
That's worse.Happy 30th birthday Legend!
Shearer had an extra 6 games per season for a long time, too.
Nonetheless, Shearer's scoring record is incredible. Banging them in way into his thirties.
That's a weird logic. You're implying that the forwards don't see enough of the midfield to be influenced by them.
Good job Rooney is there to tell them what to do, Schweinsteiger and Carrick's letters, phone calls and emails keep getting intercepted by the opposition.
I'm interested in what the Rooney haters think we should do with him. Let's assume he doesn't get any better than this, which I grant you isn't very good. We strip him of the captaincy and put him on the bench? OK. Then he sits there for the next 3 years on a very big contract sewing dissent and sapping morale. So we have to pay out his contract to stop a PR disaster involving the England captain, and he goes somewhere else on a free.
Well maybe that's what it will come to, but it's such an extreme thing to do, we have to give him every chance to show that he can get his form back first. He is only 29 after all. Also Depay is the one who would force him out of the first 11 and he's not ready. So I think Rooney gets the season to prove himself.
I would add that I don't think Valencia or Carrick or Fellaini are really much better that Rooney at what they do at the moment. Some people are just against him because of his Knutish behaviour a few years back. That's fair enough but won't be a factor in LVG's thinking.
Well maybe that's what it will come to, but it's such an extreme thing to do, we have to give him every chance to show that he can get his form back first. He is only 29 after all. Also Depay is the one who would force him out of the first 11 and he's not ready. So I think Rooney gets the season to prove himself.
I would add that I don't think Valencia or Carrick or Fellaini are really much better that Rooney at what they do at the moment. Some people are just against him because of his Knutish behaviour a few years back. That's fair enough but won't be a factor in LVG's thinking.
It's his stupid contract and it's our fault. At the time he was given that, his performances were never worthy of it. He's been on the decline physically since 2010 (despite his numbers in 2011-12), so it was just daft from the club. Currently he's keeping the likes of Herrera out of the side and shifting Martial (a much more effective striker) on the left side.
It will be a real tender moment for the club because of all that but it HAS to be done. It's spineless not to.
Well all of them have been dropped recently but when Rooney plays poorly he is just given another position at the expense of someone else. I really could care less about his transfer request anymore, it's just a player that isn't good enough to warrant his undroppable status.
I don't like how you use the term "Rooney Haters" like those of us who want him gone or benched at least have some personal vendetta.
I think he has until January. LVG will buy another attacking player, of that I am sure.Season to prove himself.
When did he become 18 again?
Does it have to be that way? Not everyone is a hater, and it invalidates any response that one would give while already being classed as a hater. If that was true, then the 95% of the Caf would qualify as such.
The solution is simple: Sell him, you've hit the nail on the head why we dont really have any other choice. He'll sulk if he where dropped, so we'll have to get rid of that element .
With him in the side, we will most likely fail to win trophies, especially as the focal core and that costs us money. So we are going to lose money either way. We've taken a massive hit on ADM, we can absorb one more hit. Financially, especially with the new premier league deal, we can afford too.
As for Valencia and Fellaini. Valencia has been decent when he has played, and Fellaini has hardly played (one of the consequences of playing in the captain's position, and having Herrera ahead of him). They are just easy targets.
Its not Depay that will force him out of the team, nothing is stopping us from going out and improving ourselves, and to get back to the top we will have to sign better quality players. What you want us to do is to settle, but if we have serious ambitions of winning anything in future, we have to make this hard decisions. It was a hallmark of Fergie's regenerations of his squad, with Bruce, Ince , Keane examples of players brutally forced out for the good of the club.
Happy 30th birthday to the legend!
Loaded phrase I agree. Rooney critics then.
I'd love to sell him to be honest. I'd give him away if it were possible. But the problem is that no-one will pay such absurd wages and therefore I suspect he will see out his contract. We're kind of stuck with him. Di Maria we were able to recoup a big chunk of his transfer fee and he wanted to go. This is much harder.
It's really Moyes legacy for being weak and giving him a new contract in the first place for the sake of expediency, after SAF had correctly put him on the path marked 'exit'. I really think our best bet is to give him enough time to recover form or establish beyond all doubt that he's not good enough to play for us any more. Then hopefully his pride will send him to join Slippy G and Lampard in the sunset home for famous has beens.
But Gerrard only wanted to leave after he was benched..from the quotes in his biography..he couldnt stand being a sub and that is when pride stepped in. Had he been playing every game , he'd still be at Liverpool. They was that quote where he said that he had to stop himself from assaulting Rodgers after being told he would be on the bench. Indulging Rooney with even more game time will not see him want to leave, its the fear of being benched that will instead.
We have given him many chances, have moved him around different positions to find one he could do well. and he's struggled everytime.
Couldn't give a feck. The reason I want Rooney moved on is that he is on the irreversible decline and United have better options now in the no 9 and 10 positions. He can stew on the bench or feck to somewhere who will be happy to pay his wages. The only thing that matters is the success of United. Not potential negative headlines in the soar away Sun
What happens if he's form does not pick up? Give him another season? Can a club as big as United afford to carry him to the end of this season let alone 2 or 3 or more seasons?.
Valencia, Carrick and Fellaini are now, basically squad players. Rooney is the club captain, highest earner at the club, is at the fulcrum of the attack ,is the first name on the team sheet, and has been poor this season.
The problem with fanboys like yourself is that you are too interested in finding hidden agendas and the motives behind why people would want him dropped and/or sold instead of staring at the bleeding obvious.
This.
The problem with being jammed on send is that you don't address the obvious problem. No-one will buy the fat feck and he won't go. He'll just sit on the benches on massive wages pissing everyone off. We'd have to pay off his contract or accept a really disruptive squad player. If I was managing, I'd hope he finds some form and then try and move him on while he's on a high.
I understand your points and think there is a valid concern about his impact/attitude were he to be placed on the bench but surely a continuation of the status quo is going to have undesirable effects as well.
Keep playing an under-performing player who displaces at least one more worthy player in the team. This includes shifting around other players to mask the actual problem. How long will ambitious, driven players be happy to be snubbed or forced to accommodate a player that is inhibiting the team as a whole? Herrera doesn't want to be on the bench, Depay doesn't want to be on the bench, Young doesn't want to be on the bench and Martial doesn't want to be on the bench but some players have to be on the bench and I would prefer it be the ones contributing least (Rooney IMO).
How long are a team going to be happy following a captain that doesn't merit his inclusion? There will already be resentment growing somewhere and it will lead to some unhappy players in the long run.
The only question is who are we going to disappoint and what kind of culture/example is to be set?
A club willing to compromise an entire team to keep a fading starlet content.
Or a club willing to look to the future and face the growing pains of confronting the reality of a starlets decline.
I know which I'd prefer and the longer anyone gets a free ride (picked for anything other than form/contribution and/or current ability) the more difficult it will be to deal with any such issues in the future. If Rooney is a starter next season he will have either miraculously rediscovered some quality (we can all dream) or LVG will have sown the seeds for his own failure and probably alienated a fair few other players as a result.
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