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The whole Rooney conundrum is kind of sad to be honest. Never seen anything quite like it as a United supporter. Scholes retired when he declined a bit, came back, did well and when his play dropped further, just left the game for good; Giggs gave us plenty of excellent performances even at age 40; Neville hung up his boots when he knew the time was up. But it never snowballed into a situation where a top, top player struggled for multiple seasons, and put in underwhelming performances on a consistent basis. Watching the rapid deterioration of not just a modern United legend, but a great of football as a whole makes for unpleasant viewing. In a sense, Wayne's entire career kind of mirrors Raul's. He too was a regular starter at a massive club since age 17 or 18, playing 40/50 games each season, frequently in the latter stages of Europe. Rooney similarly, burst onto the scene at 16, transferred to United at 19, and when fit, he's pretty much been a fixture ever since.
Raul's physical decline was quite evident in 2006-2008; despite the goal return in subsequent seasons, his play had progressively gotten weaker and in the last season, the wheels pretty much fell off entirely. You got the sense that his brain processed everything, but his body and legs just couldn't keep up. All the wear and tear of 600 appearances with Real Madrid by age 29; on top of 100 caps for Spain was catching up with him even in 2006, when other players his age were in their peak. Rooney has followed a really similar trajectory. Early bloomer who has a meteoric rise to the top, almost 600 appearances in club football, 100 caps for England. Both record scorers for their national team, and chasing the ghost of former greats - Di Stefano for Raul, and Charlton for Rooney. Guess their bodies aren't conditioned to operate like Ronaldo or Maldini's.
Let's just hope Rooney catches up to Sir Bobby this season, as unlikely at it may seem right now. For one, that would mean more points for United, so it's mutually beneficial. And, if the club operates rationally with the long term view in mind, we can have a clean break with no hard feelings come summertime. If he doesn't, then there's always the chance we could keep him around for romantic reasons, and coming agonizingly close to the club's all time scoring record. One has to wonder why more players don't pull a Cantona though. Much classier than being actively pushed out, or becoming a shell of you former selves - which is what happened to Stephen and Casillas just this summer. Why leave with bitter memories, or end up being run out of town by the management (not that it seems likely with Wayne); when you can go out at the very top.
It's a 100% legit operation mate, wouldn't want to second guess their research.
lulz
Raul's physical decline was quite evident in 2006-2008; despite the goal return in subsequent seasons, his play had progressively gotten weaker and in the last season, the wheels pretty much fell off entirely. You got the sense that his brain processed everything, but his body and legs just couldn't keep up. All the wear and tear of 600 appearances with Real Madrid by age 29; on top of 100 caps for Spain was catching up with him even in 2006, when other players his age were in their peak. Rooney has followed a really similar trajectory. Early bloomer who has a meteoric rise to the top, almost 600 appearances in club football, 100 caps for England. Both record scorers for their national team, and chasing the ghost of former greats - Di Stefano for Raul, and Charlton for Rooney. Guess their bodies aren't conditioned to operate like Ronaldo or Maldini's.
Let's just hope Rooney catches up to Sir Bobby this season, as unlikely at it may seem right now. For one, that would mean more points for United, so it's mutually beneficial. And, if the club operates rationally with the long term view in mind, we can have a clean break with no hard feelings come summertime. If he doesn't, then there's always the chance we could keep him around for romantic reasons, and coming agonizingly close to the club's all time scoring record. One has to wonder why more players don't pull a Cantona though. Much classier than being actively pushed out, or becoming a shell of you former selves - which is what happened to Stephen and Casillas just this summer. Why leave with bitter memories, or end up being run out of town by the management (not that it seems likely with Wayne); when you can go out at the very top.
It's a 100% legit operation mate, wouldn't want to second guess their research.
lulz
Really? I thought RvP had a year to run on his contract?
And in that same vein - why get rid of other players who have been here but under-performing? Fletcher, Welbz, Nani etc
What LvG is doing is simply illogical.
Its all about balance. There's a limit to the chopping and changing a manager can do in one year else a genuine attempt in getting rid of the deadwood may easily degenerate into a revolt. In 12 months LVG got rid of Rio, Di Maria, Ando, Cleverley, the darling of Manchester, Fletcher, Falcao and RVP ie 3 legends of the club (Rio, Fletcher and RVP), 2 homegrown talent (Cleverley and Welbeck (Im not adding Fletcher here as I added to the previous list)), one of the most liked people in the squad (Ando) and 2 big names (Falcao and ADM - same rule apply for RVP). Selling Rooney would have taken things a bit too far
Agree with that. He's improved recently and is now average rather than rubbish. I think he can improve a little bit further and put in a string of good performances for a month or two before becoming poor again. Much depends on the game vs City though. If we lose and he contributes nothing...
Well he was winning league titles with that team so I guess he was justified.We will never know, tbh, the reasons behind his dogged loyalty to certain players but it can be argued that most of the players he kept around whilst they weren't good enough for a starring role they were great squad players to rotate around a really strong core.
where's that?
Because they had cheap contracts, it's easier to get rid of them because someone else will give them an equivalent contract, Rooney don't have a cheap contract which means that Rooney won't move, unless you give him for free. For Nani there was no coming back he was out of the club and the team for too long.
We will never know, tbh, the reasons behind his dogged loyalty to certain players but it can be argued that most of the players he kept around whilst they weren't good enough for a starring role they were great squad players to rotate around a really strong core.[/QUOTE]
He kept on winning titles however his actions hurt the club big time as the team had to endure a rebuilding process which we never witnessed since the 80s (when SAF came to the club). I bet both Moyes and LVG would have loved if they had Pogba in the team instead of Cleverley
Back to Everton.
He has the club by the balls, its painful to watch.
I'm not even convinced LVG could drop him even if he wanted to, our marketing team would have a meltdown considering he's the club's goldenboy
.
I'm not even convinced LVG could drop him even if he wanted to, our marketing team would have a meltdown considering he's the club's goldenboy
.He kept on winning titles however his actions hurt the club big time as the team had to endure a rebuilding process which we never witnessed since the 80s (when SAF came to the club). I bet both Moyes and LVG would have loved if they had Pogba in the team instead of Cleverley[/QUOTE]
Fergie's contract did not entail building teams for Moyes and LVG though. Fergie made his decisions, won as a result or in spite of them depending on where you are looking from, so it's up to LVG to make his because he will live or die by them.
Absolutely sick and tired of watching him. Got slated by many on here last season for seeing something that the majority are finally noticing. He's past it. A few goals here and there wont change that.
His form is a big worry. It's not just that he doesnt score goals anymore, he cant do the simple things right either. He cant control a ball, cant pass it properly, he doesnt make good runs etc. LVG should really drop him but I cant see it as things stand. He's a big reason why we're not performing well
I think there is probably pressure from the board to play Rooney given the enormous investment the club made in him under Moyes.
The funny thing is he has been so poor his value will have dropped considerably now.
The funny thing is he has been so poor his value will have dropped considerably now.
He has the club by the balls, its painful to watch.
I'm not even convinced LVG could drop him even if he wanted to, our marketing team would have a meltdown considering he's the club's goldenboy
How can he be the club goldenboy when he doesn't earn much on publicity and sponsorship? How can he be marketable when it concerns the club but not marketable when it concerns himself?
In my opinion, Rooney isn't marketable, he isn't a goldenboy and concerning the shirts if he leaves tomorrow the club will sell the same amount of shirts but with a different name.
You see, fans called me out, possibly fairly, for me saying that I wouldn't be entirely adverse to him being injured. Just for long enough for us to actually show that we are better off without him anyway. I stand by this.
Knowing our luck though, Herrera will get injured at the same time and we won't be able to show anything.
Knowing our luck though, Herrera will get injured at the same time and we won't be able to show anything.
Rooney jerseys sell more than any of other our players, he's pretty much central to all our promos and is not only United's, but also England's most iconic player right now across the globe. Our marketing dept would hence have a panic attack if we dropped him.
He has the club by the balls, its painful to watch.
I'm not even convinced LVG could drop him even if he wanted to, our marketing team would have a meltdown considering he's the club's goldenboy
In what way is he?
For instance I bet you Martial shirts are seriously outselling Rooney ones these days for a start (along with both Schweinsteiger and Depay)
Unlike Cantona or to a lesser extent Neville, Rooney is not someone who has that self awareness to do that plus he is on a massive contract. I think Villa away is the only match he admitted he was poor. I assume he believes that the rest of his performances this season are acceptable. It's not helped by the bubble (media or internal) that he inhabits validating this ,even though his performances, especially in the last 2 or 3 years has been on a downward trajectory
I assume it was Di Maria followed by Rooney, but now Di Maria has left its Rooney surely?
In the short term. Rooney is the 4th most well known footballer world wide (Or something?) and the first name on the back of the shirt in Asia, as well as the most recognisable outside Europe.
P.s I am not arguing this is a good thing I just feel LVG will have had his hands tied re Rooney, as would any manager we could have bought in.
And it took maybe the worst individual performance I've seen from a Utd player before he'd even admit that.
Of course he's not going to come out and be 100% brutally honest about his own form, but the way he's spoken after games where he's scored is very worrying. He seemed to think he'd answered his critics after the Everton game.
The whole situation is just a mess, it's so frustrating having to watch him every week either be terrible or do nothing.
From July to September. Of course a new shiny signing is going to dominate shirt sales over a summer transfer window. Look over a slightly broader period and I'm sure Rooney would be topping the list.
Media might be covering for him now but if he fecks up for England next summer they will ruin him.
As for this club performance, It has got to point were we just have to live with it, he won't be dropped or subbed anytime soon.
As for this club performance, It has got to point were we just have to live with it, he won't be dropped or subbed anytime soon.
I'll have an even tenner with anyone here that, barring a remarkable turnaround and a flurry of goals, he is benched for an EPL game before the end of November.
Fergie's contract did not entail building teams for Moyes and LVG though. Fergie made his decisions, won as a result or in spite of them depending on where you are looking from, so it's up to LVG to make his because he will live or die by them.[/QUOTE]
Building a team for the future had always been the aim of the club else we would have been buying short term buys instead of young players. LVG's work will be enjoyed by the ones who succeed him (Martial, Depay etc).
He should play on the left and martial centre(assuming he has to play). I think him on the left will solidify our midfield, the problem with him is Our system sparkles when someone will pla on last man and look to get behind but as strikers get older they do this less and start taking the ball shrt and to feet. He did it against everton and we played well, he did not do it today, he blocked herrera's space and his holding up of the ball has never been great. Martial/benz/lewa would be the type of strikers our systems require but i dont think rooney can do that job. He should realise this and drop to the bench or Lvg should play him on left and martial centre. This will also keep depay out of the team who is even worse than him. We can use rooney to work back and not loose martial's threat in the same. This is all assuming he has to play, for me i would play lingard left until ashley cole comes back(Cant believe i just wrote that, what the feck?) Its the weak spot in our team and if he has to play, make him play there.
Yep agreed that the further you go back this will be the case. However it is a reality is that his star is now on the wane for both club and country.
I don't believe for a minute that team selection is influenced by revenue from shirts.
This just in... 'Undroppable' Rooney is ineffective again.
In an unshocking effort (the word 'performance' overstates what he does on a pitch now) yet again, Rooney had maintained his underwhelming stats for another 90mins. Proof that essentially 10man Utd are carrying the significant weight of their unmovable (and rarely moving) captain.
Some sections of fans believe Rooney is outlaying a considerable chunk of his ridiculous wage on Derren Brown, who convinces LVG that misplacing passes, having zero ball control and a complete inability to shoot, are qualities you want in a captain and lone striker.
Its gone way beyond a joke, but the harsh reality is that the only thing that will keep this has-been out of the starting XI is injury... And harsh as I am, I'd never wish a player* injured.
* Luis Suarez & John Terry aside!
In an unshocking effort (the word 'performance' overstates what he does on a pitch now) yet again, Rooney had maintained his underwhelming stats for another 90mins. Proof that essentially 10man Utd are carrying the significant weight of their unmovable (and rarely moving) captain.
Some sections of fans believe Rooney is outlaying a considerable chunk of his ridiculous wage on Derren Brown, who convinces LVG that misplacing passes, having zero ball control and a complete inability to shoot, are qualities you want in a captain and lone striker.
Its gone way beyond a joke, but the harsh reality is that the only thing that will keep this has-been out of the starting XI is injury... And harsh as I am, I'd never wish a player* injured.
* Luis Suarez & John Terry aside!
You are right as he is no doubt a well respected and liked player but surely the buck will stop by the end of this season if his performances don't pick up, which quiet honestly I do not believe they will, which is sad but that's the life of a footballer especially one who starts so young. Just hope he is off to pastures new or just happy to be a player on the bench and earning a lot less money able to continue the chase for Bobs record..
Come on, no one gets that? The infamous Paul Scholes Quotes.
It seems evident to me that time is running out for Rooney, LVG has been switching him around so much in the last few weeks that he's clearly not happy with his contribution. To be fair to Rooney, I'm not even sure I can fault his effort, it's just clear that his body is starting to give up on him. It's shocking to see how much pace he has lost when I watch old videos of him at Everton.
Needs dropping desperately.
Must have a contractual clause or be blackmailing somebody. Aside from that my only hope is perhaps LvG wanted to get through this month of bigger games before making the changes, giving the younger/newer guys a slightly easier run of things to start without him. Hopefully after the Derby he'll get dropped as we don't then hit a big team (at least in the Prem) until Dec 28th.
As for supporting him as mentioned earlier, he has been. Lets face it, Rooney's control, short passing, long shots and mobility have been piss poor for 3 seasons now. He's got by on his long game, tap-ins (still has fairly decent positioning) and been let off alot because of his changing roles, which to be honest, should never really be an excuse for "world class" players. He's been supported plenty, but there comes a time when the team comes first, and if were going to climb out this 2-3 year rut, we cant be carrying players because of long service.
As for his speed and being placed high in the list, thats down to top speeds, not general quickness. The difference being, Bale and co hit 30mph in bare seconds and blow people away. Rooney takes 80 yards to reach speed. He does have good top speed, he just takes so long to reach it he only does so about once a season on a full pitch counter, and at the end he's almost falling over himself. Over 5-20 yards he's laughably immobile.
Must have a contractual clause or be blackmailing somebody. Aside from that my only hope is perhaps LvG wanted to get through this month of bigger games before making the changes, giving the younger/newer guys a slightly easier run of things to start without him. Hopefully after the Derby he'll get dropped as we don't then hit a big team (at least in the Prem) until Dec 28th.
As for supporting him as mentioned earlier, he has been. Lets face it, Rooney's control, short passing, long shots and mobility have been piss poor for 3 seasons now. He's got by on his long game, tap-ins (still has fairly decent positioning) and been let off alot because of his changing roles, which to be honest, should never really be an excuse for "world class" players. He's been supported plenty, but there comes a time when the team comes first, and if were going to climb out this 2-3 year rut, we cant be carrying players because of long service.
As for his speed and being placed high in the list, thats down to top speeds, not general quickness. The difference being, Bale and co hit 30mph in bare seconds and blow people away. Rooney takes 80 yards to reach speed. He does have good top speed, he just takes so long to reach it he only does so about once a season on a full pitch counter, and at the end he's almost falling over himself. Over 5-20 yards he's laughably immobile.
Ferguson's culling of Keane was brutal, but it was so necessary. I feel the same is needed here too.
We are a football club, first and foremost. Our on pitch performances should drive everything else.
Van Gaal isn't stupid. I think there is an element of biding his time before pulling the trigger.
It's easy to sit on an internet forum and call for Rooney to be dropped, but dropping your captain, the captain of England and club posterboy, in mid-October is a massive decision that will have ramifications, for good or bad.
This is Van Gaal's last job and he doesn't want to lose it. When he feels the time is right then Rooney is gone, and I think that time will come sooner rather than later.
It's easy to sit on an internet forum and call for Rooney to be dropped, but dropping your captain, the captain of England and club posterboy, in mid-October is a massive decision that will have ramifications, for good or bad.
This is Van Gaal's last job and he doesn't want to lose it. When he feels the time is right then Rooney is gone, and I think that time will come sooner rather than later.
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