Good players tend to be undroppable.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 14
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Good players tend to be undroppable.
dont usually watch England qualifiers....we seem to get into the tournament and than as usual find a way to get out ASAP.
wont rant on about the management.. have done that often enough.
As for Rooney...he is close to beating Greaves and Charlton's goals records.
He has been excellent for United so far this season. Dont see what the problem is. We will miss him in the next two matches.
wont rant on about the management.. have done that often enough.
As for Rooney...he is close to beating Greaves and Charlton's goals records.
He has been excellent for United so far this season. Dont see what the problem is. We will miss him in the next two matches.
4 of Rooney's 43 goals for England were against San Marino since people were wondering.
He was really really bad tonight but the goal records speak for themselves. Can be a frustrating player.
Wow, not far off 10%.
So from what I can gather he was no good but still scored. Typical Rooney game then?
I hope he retires from England duty. I'm always worried the inevitable backlash he gets will feck his form up for us. United players seem to have a really bad time with England for whatever reason.
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Poor game or not he's the only who looked like scoring against a poor team like Estonia..none of the other attackers even came close. His finishing was a bit iffy but apart from that he was okay.
If Rooney retires from England duty then there's literally no one to replace him now. People can harp on about Sturridge, Welbeck etc but both of them doesn't have the class of Rooney nor they have the record.
If Rooney retires from England duty then there's literally no one to replace him now. People can harp on about Sturridge, Welbeck etc but both of them doesn't have the class of Rooney nor they have the record.
From what I've seen everybody on the pitch from English side was shit. Midfielders, attackers, whatever, everybody was rubbish there, defenders didn't have too much to do. Not to mention that England were playing with an advantage since 50th minute or so and they still couldn't break Estonia.
Pretty rich to single Rooney out when nobody else was making a chance for themselves and in the end, it was him who gave them 3 points from a free-kick because they didn't look like scoring from an open play. If somebody wondered if trio of Wilshit-Delph and Henderson would work, well, it didn't. Certainly not under Woy.
It isn't rich at all to single him out in a thread which is titled "Wayne Rooney's performances". Does he get a pass when the rest of the team he plays with don't perform? If so, the thread title should be changed don't you think?
Fact is Rooney as captain should be the inspiring leader such a team needs and he isn't. Added to that despite winning us the game with a decent free kick that better keepers would have kept out, his overall play was again inept. The chance he missed was, well, a sitter really. That a player held up to be one of the world's best produced such a poor finish nets him, rightly so, criticism of his performance.
Of course it's right to criticise him after yesterday's performance because there was much to be desired but it's not even about this thread itself. In the Euro Qualifires he was getting a lot of shit from people as well when it was clearly visible that the whole team was struggling, yet he was quite often singled out.
I suppose that we'll both agree that Rooney is not captain's material but what should he do? Resign from captaincy? Would show even bigger lack of bollocks. For some reason both LVG and Woy see a 'leader' in him but we both know that he probably won't be too inspiring to his team mates, thus I don't really expect it from him. I don't really know who claims he's 'one of the world's best' too to be fair.
It does look like some people who are watching English NT are in for a shocker. Many thought that if you drop shits like Gerrard and other slow, static players this team would turn into God knows what. In the end, they've played with probably the most energetic, running and engine-esque midfield they're able to field and still looked awful. Even the 'best young player in the world bla bla bla' didn't do anything that was extraordinary.
As always the criticism in this thread full of moronic hyperbole.
He definitely should have scored at least once from open play. Same as the San Marino game. Guilty of some really poor finishing in both games. Overall performance was nowhere near as bad as you'd think reading some of the comments above. Wasn't great but wasn't terrible either.
The reason he got so many good chances was because of really well timed runs, for which he deserves some credit. Him and Wilshere look to have a really good understanding. Be nice to see something similar develop at United. My money's on Hererra dinking those passes over the top. Needs to be a lot more fecking clinical when he's clean through though. Which we all know he's capable of.
He definitely should have scored at least once from open play. Same as the San Marino game. Guilty of some really poor finishing in both games. Overall performance was nowhere near as bad as you'd think reading some of the comments above. Wasn't great but wasn't terrible either.
The reason he got so many good chances was because of really well timed runs, for which he deserves some credit. Him and Wilshere look to have a really good understanding. Be nice to see something similar develop at United. My money's on Hererra dinking those passes over the top. Needs to be a lot more fecking clinical when he's clean through though. Which we all know he's capable of.
Rooney besides the goal was poor - he seems to be a shadow of his best at the moment.
Not really his style of passing, is it? Far more likely to see Scholes-esque from Di Maria, even Blind maybe.
Yeah I agree with all that.......I said it before somewhere, but I think Rooney is considered world class in England because we really do have a dearth of top players able to play a game of football (which is as much mental as physical) in the way I feel more Europeans are able to (not all by any means). We are definitely behind technically and until a football revolution happens in our country, starting at grass roots level (aged 6 and up, much like what happened in Belgium over the past 10 years or so) we will be holding up players like Rooney as the example to all.
Exactly this. Not a brilliant performance by any means, but not half as bad as some posts would try to make out. A lot of England's chances went through him and he did look like the only one that could score. His movement was very good, it's his finishing that let him down though the only really disappointing one for me was the one right at the end that he definitely should've buried.
The Rooney bashing is getting tiresome now, I tend to ignore it.
I actually thought he played well last night, yes, his finishing could have been better but he still got the winning goal. He seems to be the easy or should I say lazy target for fans who probably didn't even watch the game, if they did then they clearly have an agenda and would most likely criticise no matter how well he played.
The media know having a go at Rooney will sell papers, they are by far the biggest negative influence on their national team.
I think Welbeck has a lot of potential and will do well at Arsenal but Rooney's performance was better than his by a country mile.
Obviously, expectations are higher but that doesn't mean we can't judge each performance on it's own merits. Especially on a night where the mighty Diego Costa took almost exactly the same amount of time to score against fecking Luxembourg!
Obviously, expectations are higher but that doesn't mean we can't judge each performance on it's own merits. Especially on a night where the mighty Diego Costa took almost exactly the same amount of time to score against fecking Luxembourg!
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which is impressive in itself seeing as Brazil weren't even playing them.
Indeed!
I don't really care about the other England players though. I wasn't intentionally singling him out either. My comment wasn't intended to be a harsh criticism as such, it was more a general comment of how I see Rooney performing these days.
8 competitive starts this season. 5 goals, 2 assists.
Imagine the numbers he'd be able to produce if he wasn't so consistently 'rotten'.
Imagine the numbers he'd be able to produce if he wasn't so consistently 'rotten'.
Rooney struggled last night because England were piss poor. The same as they were piss poor against San Marino. I thought Rooney was Englands best player against San Marino, and was desperately unlucky. He could easily have bagged himself 4 or 5 goals. It seems the goalkeeper only made a save when Rooney had a shot or tried a chip. It's not fair to single Rooney out when the whole team was so dire last night. To be fair a typical England performance.
3 assists. One for own goal from San Marino player.
And it would be an amazing assist to Henderson if Liverpool player didn't screwed it up.
Wonder how will people view him when he breaks both the club and international goal record. He not far from it now.
Excellent? He really hasn't been excellent for us this season yet.
The negative spin has already started:
"But..but .. but...
He should have broken the United Record years ago. Ronaldo would have broken it years ago.
And, he scores most of his goals against San Marino in qualifiers, and does nothing when it matters. Plus penalties."
10-20 years later, he will be hailed much higher than he is now.
Imagine by May 2015, he is Uniteds and Englands all time top scorer. And was one of the reasons United clinch the title from Chelsea. I would still have a thing against him, and I cant explain why.
His record and his reputation will always supercede his talent for me. Even posters on here get confused now mixing those up.
He's surely one of the most boring in the so called top bracket of players? And unlikeable too to boot...
I wonder whether he'd be a more exciting player had he stayed at Everton longer and not lost the raw energy he once had
Explosions!
Costa misses chances for Spain - "You would be worried if he wasn't getting chances but he is so the goals will come."
Rooney misses chances for England - "He is overrated and shite."
Rooney misses chances for England - "He is overrated and shite."
he will also break Shilton's appearence record.
He is simply among the greatest footballers England have produced.
Fantastic article on Rooney:
http://www.setanta.com/ie/rooney-whose-potential-hasnt-he-fulfilled/
Rooney – Whose potential hasn’t he fulfilled?
International football is a strange romping ground for the elite footballers in the world. Over the weekend, Neymar and Lionel Messi went head to head with the former having quietly accumulated a number of goals in Brazil shirts which will see him start to be compared to the greats, and the latter still suffering from a World Cup Final heartache where another universe had him finally holding the trophy which put him on a par with Diego Maradona.
It’s not quite a universe away but in Estonia on Sunday, Wayne Rooney was once again subjected to comments about his contribution despite his goal being the match winner.
How fair is it? Well, let’s examine the story so far for Rooney. He was loved by all in the English game when he broke through at Everton and made such waves in Euro 2004. Ten years later, some contend that he isn’t even the best centre forward England have, and opinion on him is split among Manchester United supporters too, many of whom have yet to forgive him for his terrible autumn of 2010.
The talk about Rooney, and his ability and potential, is natural. After all, he is edging towards two goalscoring records, both held by Sir Bobby Charlton. Breaking either will elevate him to undeniable legend status if only by virtue of the record and that inevitability sticks in the craw of many. Why? Because those people find Rooney unlikeable.
Unlikeable, for rival fans, because he plays for Manchester United and is prone to moments of madness. The player anyone would hate if they’re on your opponents team. Unlikeable for United fans because of what went on in 2010.
It’s probably fair to look back at that time and consider what went on. He was the subject of tabloid allegations about his private life and was subsequently dropped for a potentially hostile trip to Everton. Prior to this, he had finally proven his own worth, stepping out of Cristiano Ronaldo’s shadow to score 34 goals in 44 games in the 2009/10 season.
Then came the September 2010 allegations which threatened his marriage. A face-off with Sir Alex Ferguson followed where the pair appeared to publicly disagree about the player’s condition to partake on international duty. Rooney was subsequently dropped and used as a substitute for United’s following game against West Brom. Then, it was leaked that Rooney had asked for a transfer away from United at the start of a week which ended with him signing a five year contract.
His crime to United supporters wasn’t the supposed infidelity (after all, it would be a small ‘holier than thou’ section of society able to castigate him on these grounds), it was the transfer request, with Manchester City the supposed suitors. All sorts were rumoured, suggestions of a deal already having been agreed with the blues and Rooney’s agent Paul Stretford. How could he? How could he even entertain the notion? Well, what top player wouldn’t throw the toys out of the pram if they have been dropped?
After more minutes and games being played out of position in the 2012/13 season, rumours of another bust up with Ferguson led to mixed stories of another transfer request. United supporters were still appalled at Rooney yet this time he was more obviously dispensable. If he could be moved on for a transfer fee before breaking the club’s goalscoring record, then all the better. It’s even said – not even half jokingly – amongst some that one of David Moyes’ biggest errors as United manager was to give Rooney another five year contract. The decision of Louis van Gaal to make him captain was not a universally popular or indeed, welcome, one.
That discontent with Rooney’s position as the spearhead of United’s attack sits a little more comfortably now supporters can logically question his ability. ‘His first touch is awful’, ‘He hasn’t bossed a game for about four years’ are among the comments which at times seem more like overdue, welcome opportunities to twist the knife.
Another slight used to denigrate Rooney is the notion that he hasn’t fulfilled his potential. This is a fascinating debate. Soon after his arrival at United, a chant was invented for him describing him as the ‘White Pele’. Probably assisted by the fact he shared a dressing room with Cristiano Ronaldo, from the moment he went to Old Trafford, he was compared to Ronaldo and Messi. In recent months, pundits like Stan Collymore have repeated the comparison. It shouldn’t be an insult when Ronaldo and Messi are not only the two best in the world, they are vying to be the best ever, but when aimed at Rooney, it appears to be used as one. Collymore described Rooney as ‘an experienced grinder’ and said the player once compared to Messi and Ronaldo ‘no longer exists at international level’.
Wayne Rooney, it seems, is supposed to be all things to all people. A fiery performance in Belfast in 2005 for England provoked column inches saying Rooney needed to grow up. He was sent off a week later for United against Villareal for sarcastically applauding the referee. In 2006 he was infamously dismissed for a World Cup stamp on Ricardo Carvalho. If he didn’t mature his game, he would not last long at the highest level, he was told. Those moments of madness became more infrequent (though still exist, as his recent red card against West Ham indicates, although all parties insist that was more a tactical aberration), leading to concerns that the fire that once made him what he was had gone, and so was the player he ‘should have’ become. Once praised for his selflessness throughout the 2006-2009 period which saw him often played wide, that spell is now one provided as an example of the period where his decline as a footballer started.
People look at the goal he scored against Newcastle in 2005 and say those magic moments are few and far between. Shouldn’t they be, by definition? When it comes to Rooney, no. His amazing goal against Manchester City in 2011 and his half-way line effort against West Ham earlier this year are almost casually dismissed because of the perception he should have done it more often. Read that sentence back and then try to decide whether it is fair.
His goal ratio is roughly 1 in 2. Over his career, aside from a couple of highs which buck that trend in 2010 and 2012, that ratio has been his dependable average. He should score more often, he should have more of an influence on games, all these things are levelled against Rooney to the extent that what he does is dismissed against the ideal of what people think he should do.
The criticism for his performance against Estonia taken into isolation was fair. Goal aside, he was poor. Jack Wilshere was arguably the best of a pretty band bunch because England ought to have won the game fairly convincingly. And yet it was Rooney, not Wilshere, who made the difference, with his 43rd international goal in 99 appearances. As soon as the ball was in the net, it was ‘about time’. Only Paul Gascoigne, in recent generations, could be said to have been subjected to such scrutiny.
When you take everything into consideration, you have to look at the base of the problem – the level of hype and projected potential in the first place. Who was responsible for projecting that potential? It wasn’t Rooney. So why is he being held responsible for not being Messi or Ronaldo? Whose potential is he actually being expected to fulfill here?
His international goal record isn’t too dissimilar to that of Alan Shearer. Shearer wasn’t expected to do anything but score goals and was lauded for that fact. Rooney is expected to provide more – but for the main, that goal record has come without being the primary taker of free kicks or penalties as the likes of Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard asserted their own seniority. It’s almost as if Rooney is expected to not only score, but provide the assist.
At the current average (and Rooney’s is always stable) you can project that he will be breaking the record around this time next year or early 2016. In fact, 2015/16 should be the year that both of Charlton’s records become his.
There will be some who will reason that it should have come sooner.mThese are records that were established over an entire career by Charlton, records that Rooney will match, break, and then set new ones.nThe truth, though, is that Rooney will not be revered in the same manner as the man whose records he will surpass.
Sure, there will be a time when the records are imminently within his grasp where the achievements will be acknowledged and hyped up. The response will be predictable from those who won’t be happy. And – sooner rather than later – the tired comparisons to the likes of Ronaldo and Messi will be trotted out.
The great unanswered question for those who level those comments will be, ‘How good did you expect Rooney to be?’ To become Manchester United’s and England’s record goalscorer – what exactly were you expecting? More?
Wayne Barton is the Setanta.com football columnist, featuring weekly. He has written for SetantaSports since 2011 and is also the author and ghostwriter of various football books, including ‘Greenhoff’, the autobiography of the late Manchester United legend Brian Greenhoff. His book ‘Fergie’s Fledglings’ was described as ‘essential’ by the Guardian, and in July 2014, his third book, ‘Merlin’, the autobiography of Gordon Hill, was released.
Give him your opinion on this article on his Twitter page @yolkie_
by: Wayne Barton, October 13, 2014
http://www.setanta.com/ie/rooney-whose-potential-hasnt-he-fulfilled/
Rooney – Whose potential hasn’t he fulfilled?
International football is a strange romping ground for the elite footballers in the world. Over the weekend, Neymar and Lionel Messi went head to head with the former having quietly accumulated a number of goals in Brazil shirts which will see him start to be compared to the greats, and the latter still suffering from a World Cup Final heartache where another universe had him finally holding the trophy which put him on a par with Diego Maradona.
It’s not quite a universe away but in Estonia on Sunday, Wayne Rooney was once again subjected to comments about his contribution despite his goal being the match winner.
How fair is it? Well, let’s examine the story so far for Rooney. He was loved by all in the English game when he broke through at Everton and made such waves in Euro 2004. Ten years later, some contend that he isn’t even the best centre forward England have, and opinion on him is split among Manchester United supporters too, many of whom have yet to forgive him for his terrible autumn of 2010.
The talk about Rooney, and his ability and potential, is natural. After all, he is edging towards two goalscoring records, both held by Sir Bobby Charlton. Breaking either will elevate him to undeniable legend status if only by virtue of the record and that inevitability sticks in the craw of many. Why? Because those people find Rooney unlikeable.
Unlikeable, for rival fans, because he plays for Manchester United and is prone to moments of madness. The player anyone would hate if they’re on your opponents team. Unlikeable for United fans because of what went on in 2010.
It’s probably fair to look back at that time and consider what went on. He was the subject of tabloid allegations about his private life and was subsequently dropped for a potentially hostile trip to Everton. Prior to this, he had finally proven his own worth, stepping out of Cristiano Ronaldo’s shadow to score 34 goals in 44 games in the 2009/10 season.
Then came the September 2010 allegations which threatened his marriage. A face-off with Sir Alex Ferguson followed where the pair appeared to publicly disagree about the player’s condition to partake on international duty. Rooney was subsequently dropped and used as a substitute for United’s following game against West Brom. Then, it was leaked that Rooney had asked for a transfer away from United at the start of a week which ended with him signing a five year contract.
His crime to United supporters wasn’t the supposed infidelity (after all, it would be a small ‘holier than thou’ section of society able to castigate him on these grounds), it was the transfer request, with Manchester City the supposed suitors. All sorts were rumoured, suggestions of a deal already having been agreed with the blues and Rooney’s agent Paul Stretford. How could he? How could he even entertain the notion? Well, what top player wouldn’t throw the toys out of the pram if they have been dropped?
After more minutes and games being played out of position in the 2012/13 season, rumours of another bust up with Ferguson led to mixed stories of another transfer request. United supporters were still appalled at Rooney yet this time he was more obviously dispensable. If he could be moved on for a transfer fee before breaking the club’s goalscoring record, then all the better. It’s even said – not even half jokingly – amongst some that one of David Moyes’ biggest errors as United manager was to give Rooney another five year contract. The decision of Louis van Gaal to make him captain was not a universally popular or indeed, welcome, one.
That discontent with Rooney’s position as the spearhead of United’s attack sits a little more comfortably now supporters can logically question his ability. ‘His first touch is awful’, ‘He hasn’t bossed a game for about four years’ are among the comments which at times seem more like overdue, welcome opportunities to twist the knife.
Another slight used to denigrate Rooney is the notion that he hasn’t fulfilled his potential. This is a fascinating debate. Soon after his arrival at United, a chant was invented for him describing him as the ‘White Pele’. Probably assisted by the fact he shared a dressing room with Cristiano Ronaldo, from the moment he went to Old Trafford, he was compared to Ronaldo and Messi. In recent months, pundits like Stan Collymore have repeated the comparison. It shouldn’t be an insult when Ronaldo and Messi are not only the two best in the world, they are vying to be the best ever, but when aimed at Rooney, it appears to be used as one. Collymore described Rooney as ‘an experienced grinder’ and said the player once compared to Messi and Ronaldo ‘no longer exists at international level’.
Wayne Rooney, it seems, is supposed to be all things to all people. A fiery performance in Belfast in 2005 for England provoked column inches saying Rooney needed to grow up. He was sent off a week later for United against Villareal for sarcastically applauding the referee. In 2006 he was infamously dismissed for a World Cup stamp on Ricardo Carvalho. If he didn’t mature his game, he would not last long at the highest level, he was told. Those moments of madness became more infrequent (though still exist, as his recent red card against West Ham indicates, although all parties insist that was more a tactical aberration), leading to concerns that the fire that once made him what he was had gone, and so was the player he ‘should have’ become. Once praised for his selflessness throughout the 2006-2009 period which saw him often played wide, that spell is now one provided as an example of the period where his decline as a footballer started.
People look at the goal he scored against Newcastle in 2005 and say those magic moments are few and far between. Shouldn’t they be, by definition? When it comes to Rooney, no. His amazing goal against Manchester City in 2011 and his half-way line effort against West Ham earlier this year are almost casually dismissed because of the perception he should have done it more often. Read that sentence back and then try to decide whether it is fair.
His goal ratio is roughly 1 in 2. Over his career, aside from a couple of highs which buck that trend in 2010 and 2012, that ratio has been his dependable average. He should score more often, he should have more of an influence on games, all these things are levelled against Rooney to the extent that what he does is dismissed against the ideal of what people think he should do.
The criticism for his performance against Estonia taken into isolation was fair. Goal aside, he was poor. Jack Wilshere was arguably the best of a pretty band bunch because England ought to have won the game fairly convincingly. And yet it was Rooney, not Wilshere, who made the difference, with his 43rd international goal in 99 appearances. As soon as the ball was in the net, it was ‘about time’. Only Paul Gascoigne, in recent generations, could be said to have been subjected to such scrutiny.
When you take everything into consideration, you have to look at the base of the problem – the level of hype and projected potential in the first place. Who was responsible for projecting that potential? It wasn’t Rooney. So why is he being held responsible for not being Messi or Ronaldo? Whose potential is he actually being expected to fulfill here?
His international goal record isn’t too dissimilar to that of Alan Shearer. Shearer wasn’t expected to do anything but score goals and was lauded for that fact. Rooney is expected to provide more – but for the main, that goal record has come without being the primary taker of free kicks or penalties as the likes of Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard asserted their own seniority. It’s almost as if Rooney is expected to not only score, but provide the assist.
At the current average (and Rooney’s is always stable) you can project that he will be breaking the record around this time next year or early 2016. In fact, 2015/16 should be the year that both of Charlton’s records become his.
There will be some who will reason that it should have come sooner.mThese are records that were established over an entire career by Charlton, records that Rooney will match, break, and then set new ones.nThe truth, though, is that Rooney will not be revered in the same manner as the man whose records he will surpass.
Sure, there will be a time when the records are imminently within his grasp where the achievements will be acknowledged and hyped up. The response will be predictable from those who won’t be happy. And – sooner rather than later – the tired comparisons to the likes of Ronaldo and Messi will be trotted out.
The great unanswered question for those who level those comments will be, ‘How good did you expect Rooney to be?’ To become Manchester United’s and England’s record goalscorer – what exactly were you expecting? More?
Wayne Barton is the Setanta.com football columnist, featuring weekly. He has written for SetantaSports since 2011 and is also the author and ghostwriter of various football books, including ‘Greenhoff’, the autobiography of the late Manchester United legend Brian Greenhoff. His book ‘Fergie’s Fledglings’ was described as ‘essential’ by the Guardian, and in July 2014, his third book, ‘Merlin’, the autobiography of Gordon Hill, was released.
Give him your opinion on this article on his Twitter page @yolkie_
by: Wayne Barton, October 13, 2014
That's an excellent article. 100% agree with it.
That bald patch when he was young.
He bangs in the goals in the qualifiers but doesn't deliver anything in International tournaments. Breaking the record wont mean as much with no meaningful goals. A solitary goal against Uruguay is all he managed this year, and it's not enough for England's supposed best player.
That's still 50% of all "meaningful" England goals this year.
Good article. I don't like Rooney but a lot on here are way too harsh on him because of their dislike.
He scored 4 I think before the injury in the European championships (his first one) and had injuries going into the other tournaments. I think it looks worse then it actually is.
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