Rooney isn't as quick as he used to be. But he looks pretty nippy in those clips. He may be getting sharper. I don't think he had this kind of pace the last two seasons.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 14
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Rooney has shown, when playing behind two strikers, that he's still not the best as a #10 sort of player. He just doesn't have the close control and movement to be at his best in such a role. I feel like he'd be better off playing as the second striker off of Falcao as that will bring the best out of him. He can create chances and is a decent passer, but I don't feel like he has the vision, close control, and passing choices of a very good #10. Every time he plays here, he plays like a false 9 rather than as a #10.
Odd thing to say, considering that he played well these last 2 games...
Looks to me that although Mata is probably a better no. 10, Rooney is more fitted to play there behind 2 strikers, because it brings more balance to the team with his high workrate.
I'm not trying to say that he was bad or good. He was effective behind the two strikers, and it allowed him the freedom to move back and forth between midfield and the final third. Plus, it allowed him to be the least disciplined in his game and allow him to track back and support the team off the ball. However, I'm commenting more on his style of play than his performance quality.
He takes up very good positions behind the strikers, but he doesn't stretch teams with horizontal movement, something that's fundamental for attacking midfielders. Also, he needs to demonstrate the close control that can prevent us from slowing down our passing tempo and rhythm. Several times, I've noticed some of his bad touches slow us down quite a bit when we were on a good rhythm and tempo. Finally, he struggles in tight spaces, something attacking midfielders should be comfortable with. However, he's excellent at finding himself in open space, and that's something I would expect from false 9's/second strikres. Also, his passing and vision are good enough to link up with others and put through runners on goal or dangerous areas, but he's not someone who can dictate our tempo and passing rhythm. Finally, his finishing is an asset that cannot be suppressed in any way, and as a second striker/false 9, he can ghost into goalscoring areas or take up goalscoring positions.
It's similar to how I see Muller. He's played behind Gomez and Mandzukic many times for Bayern, but has this ever meant that he was an attacking midfielder? No, he was always playing like a second striker, but what makes him different from typical second strikers is that he is comfortable out wide unlike many second strikers nowadays.
Anyways, back to Rooney. Rooney does well behind the two forwards because his energy levels mean that he cannot be easily marked out of the game like Mata can, and we can play strikers who are clinical. Plus, having other great attacking players like di Maria and Herrera means that Rooney will only have to deal with 1 opposing marker most of the time. However, I believe we can be a better team if we have a more energetic, dynamic forward playing off of Falcao than van Persie. Rooney can play as he usually does right now, but by playing off of Falcao, we can be an even better team IMO rather than playing behind van Persie and Falcao.
Do you honestly think there's been a difference to how we've played since Rooney has played as a number 10? If so, in what way, because in my opinion, Rooney has played the number 10 role, (yes the number 10 because he's been dropping and linking up play - no different to how Mata plays) just as good as Mata in the couple of games he has played there so far.
Not having the Rooney criticism this year so far.....And believe me, I've gone to town on him plenty of times on this forum and wanted him gone.
But, his work rate, link up play, passing, vision and awareness has been top notch so far and he integrates brilliantly with Falcao, Di Maria or Mata....His performances this year have been very good.
Him being captain however, I can't stand. And thats even before I think of his past episodes.
But as a player, I hope he continues this form. I do think, however, it's yet another convenient time to get suspended
But, his work rate, link up play, passing, vision and awareness has been top notch so far and he integrates brilliantly with Falcao, Di Maria or Mata....His performances this year have been very good.
Him being captain however, I can't stand. And thats even before I think of his past episodes.
But as a player, I hope he continues this form. I do think, however, it's yet another convenient time to get suspended
If you think I'm having a slight at Rooney, you're wrong. I'm saying that, even now, his game doesn't suit playing behind two strikers or playing a more midfield role. When Muller played behind Gomez and Mandzukic, who thought that he ever played as a #10 or midfielder?
With Rooney, it's the same thing. Yes, he's done well, I'm not saying he was bad. However, he can be more effective than this. Against Leceister and West Ham, Rooney was good and effective, and we had good periods of play in both matches with him behind two strikers. His vertical movement has created spaces in the middle that the likes of di Maria, Herrera, van Persie, and Falcao exploited well. His energy and work-rate made it difficult for the opposition to close him down. His decent vision also came to the fore against Leceister with a nice assist to di Maria. Rooney's also very good at keeping possession in midfield. In the past couple of matches, in our good periods, he still had issues with keeping close control of the ball in tight spaces, but he overcame those troubles, and I was satisfied with him behind the 2 strikers.
However, this doesn't mean that Rooney is at his best behind two strikers. He was always at his best playing off of 1 striker, no matter who it was. Unless van Persie can be more dynamic in his game, Rooney behind two strikers isn't our best option at the moment. I believe we're better off with Rooney playing off of Falcao in his usual way with someone dynamic who can provide some width on the right as well (Januzaj or Mata).
I think you're more focusing on the player, and not the role the player actually plays, though. Despite Rooney and Muller probably being strikers/second strikers for most of their careers, I don't think that means that they can't play the number 10 role, especially if they're doing the exact same job as a traditional number 10 does when playing behind the striker. I mean, like I said, Rooney has played in the exact same way Mata has in the last two games.
Rooney may not be best behind two strikers, according to Van Gaal, Mata isn't either, but that's the role he's been given and so far, I feel he's been playing it pretty well.
I did like the look of Rooney playing slightly behind Van Persie against QPR, but it seems that Van Gaal wants two out and out strikers, as opposed to one dropping off, as it was said that Van Gaal wasn't impressed with Rooney as a striker. That said, I'm still confused with that quote as since Rooney has dropped in behind the forwards, Falcao has kind off taken up the second striker role, which doesn't really suit him, in my opinion. I just feel it was an excuse to play RVP and Falcao.
I've never said that Rooney and Muller can't play the #10 role. Both can play it as some of their skill set can work well in that role. However, my point is that Rooney (and Muller) are better as a second striker (deep-lying forward) than as a #10.
From the matches I've seen, I've also concurred that Mata isn't the best player for the #10 role. He's not like Kagawa, Silva, Ozil, Cazorla, Wilshere, Oscar, and Fabregas in that he can dictate the tempo and rhythm of our passing. He's more about putting in the final pass or scoring goals, both of which formed as he played as a winger in his Valencia years. For this reason, I feel like, instead of having some proper #10 try to dictate play along with create chances, we have two free-role players hovering around in between the striker and midfielders. This prevents Rooney and Mata from having the burden of being playmakers. Besides, we have Herrera who can be our playmaker, and beyond him, we have players who can dictate play from deep in Blind and Carrick. Plus, we have Pereira coming up who can be our future playmaker along with Herrera.
Rooney was, is, and never will be a playmaker. He'll always be a free-role forward sort of player, and playing him in such a role will allow us to play at our best, whether that be behind one or two forwards. As I've mentioned earlier, if van Persie was more dynamic, I'd have no issues with Rooney behind two forwards. However, van Persie isn't like he used to be, so I'm proposing a better solution.
We now have an opportunity to see how well we perform without Rooney. Either way it will help to answer the debate on his best position within the team.
So who would you play behind the two forwards then?
Either Mata or Januzaj, but not as a strict attacking midfielder but rather more of a free right inside forward role. Rooney, then, would play in his favoured free forward role as part of a fluid front 3 with Falcao, Rooney, and Mata/Januzaj.
Saw this today and was quite impressed, as I rate Agüero massively.
Since 2011 in the Premier League:
Sergio Agüero:
Games: 93
Goals: 56
Assists: 23
Wayne Rooney:
Games: 96
Goals: 56
Assists: 32
Since 2011 in the Premier League:
Sergio Agüero:
Games: 93
Goals: 56
Assists: 23
Wayne Rooney:
Games: 96
Goals: 56
Assists: 32
I think it's a bit overblown though. Pretty sure a lot more of Aguero's appearances have been as a substitute or he's been substituted due to injuries. His goals per minute ratio is comfortably better than Rooney's.
True, was surprised Rooney only managed three more games in the period, even with his annual injury, as Aguero is out every other week it seems.
Been discussed in another thread. Aguero has better goals/minute but their "goals or assist" rates are very similar. A goal/assist every 82 minutes from Aguero, and a goal/assist every 85 minutes from Rooney. Only fair to compare them on that basis as Rooney spent a good chunk of that time period playing in a deeper role.
Not to mention that he's been playing for a team that has generally created and scored much fewer goals over that same period of time.
Wow, and Rooney doesn't even play as the main forward!
Rooney did all that in 7799 mins, Aguero in 6482 mins.
That means Rooney has scored or assisted every 88.63 mins, Aguero every 82.05 mins.
Oh and while I was at it, I did it for RvP, too, who according to transfermarkt in the same period has 102 PL goals and assists in 8526 mins, so he scores or assists every 83.59 mins, which puts him slightly behind Aguero.
And indeed on top form I'd put RvP just slightly behind Aguero.
To be fair, even then, those are some pretty good stats for someone who's often been perceived over that time period as not being at their best at all. Not that I'm agreeing/disagreeing with that assertion, but it's still an impressive set of stats, even if they flatter him more than Aguero.
Well it was never in doubt Rooney has good stats, but more or less all good strikers do. These stats just show that Aguero is still the best and tbf one doesn't even need stats to realise this.
Yeah, Aguero's been better for a while now and that gap will probably only continue to increase.
Actually, Rooney has more goals and assists over the same period of time so how is Aguero "the best"? Especially when you consider how Rooney played most of that time for a team that wasn't particularly creative, thanks to an under-strength midfield and out of form wide men.
A striker's ability to stay fit and available for selection is an important and under-rated attribute. Louis Saha would have probably been the best striker in Europe if he wasn't made of glass and Van Persie only really belonged with the elite strikers in Europe once he stopped being a perma-crock for Arsenal.
Until recently I don't think I can recall Aguero taking any penalties, free kicks or corners for City which is understandable as Toure has been great at them.
I'd imagine a fair few of Wayne's goals and assists were from dead ball situations so that does scew the stat a bit.
I'd imagine a fair few of Wayne's goals and assists were from dead ball situations so that does scew the stat a bit.
I posted earlier that Aguero played less minutes than Rooney and thus has a better goals+assists to mins ratio. He has a similar amount of games, but at times he scores and then gets injured in the 20th minutes or get subbed on in the 70th minute and still scores.And we weren't that bad at creating chances, after all both Rooney's and RvP's stats with us are impressive.
Seriously even the most biased Rooney supporter should be able to see Aguero is the better player.
Different players with different characteristics, I think Aguero is more lethal and technically gifted, but Rooney as a better undestanding of the game and much more presence on the field, which allows him to cover other roles in a team, like playing out wide, being a number 10 or tracking back in midfield when the team needs it. Stats mean nothing at the end of the day really.
And we weren't that bad at creating chances, after all both Rooney's and RvP's stats with us are impressive.
Seriously even the most biased Rooney supporter should be able to see Aguero is the better player.
You seem to have missed my point.
At the end of the season, what matters most to the club is the total numbers of goals scored. It's the total goals/assists provided by individual players that affect league position, not goals/minute. Hence a striker who provides the most goals/assists in any given season is arguably a "better" player. A hypothetical total based on what someone might have scored if they injured less often means feck all.
Re the chances created by both teams, you'd have to have been living under a rock not to appreciate that City created a lot more chances than United did over that period of time. Rooney and RvP's stats were racked up despite the service they received, not because of it.
I do think Aguero's a brilliant player but he's over-rated by a lot of people on here to the same extent that Rooney is under-rated. Doesn't he have a fairly terrible record of scoring goals anywhere other than the Etihad?
It's not hypothetical, it's actual minutes played, not what might have been or something.
You "Rooney played deeper" argument doesn't have much weight eithet here, as Aguero himself still plays deeper at times. Not that much anymore, but Mancini used him a lot behind the striker or even on the wing in Aguero's first season at City, which was his best. Not to mention he was playing in a new league but needed no time to adapt. Which more than makes up for us apparently creating much less. Which I am not sure is true, even Chicharito scored many goals and we know he needs chances to score!
When he got loads of goals he didn't, that was kind of the point.
You still don't get it? Seriously!?
Player A scores 20 league goals, after playing 38 league games.
Player B scores 18 league goals but injuries mean he only features in 30 league games.
Which player has been the most valuable to his team?
Assuming we go with Player A (the obvious answer) is it not reasonable to claim he was the "better" player in that particular season?
?? Aguero's stats ARE great despite his injuries. His injuries aren't even taken into consideration. And no, if Aguero plays he scores, but if he doesn't play then one of his team mates gets a chance. Whereas if Rooney plays but needs more mins to score, I don't know how he is that valuable then.
It's not as City are playing with 10 men when Aguero gets injured.
Kun just doesn't have the stamina to last the whole game, unlike The Captain.
I'm always surprised that so many people ignore how important it is to simply have the player fit and available in every game. You'd think with our problems people would understand that better.
Aguero is obviously a class player, but over the course of the season, he'll score close to a goal a game but only play in around 30 games out of 50 in all comps. He's just so injury prone. You can't rely on him to be fit when you need him. Rooney on the other hand will normally play close to 50 games, score a similar amount of goals (so worse goals/min) but then rack up a lot more assists.
That extra playing time imo just makes rooney a better asset to a team. If aguero stayed fit always, then yeah, he would be a better player probably. At his best he's world class without a doubt. He's just injured too much so doesn't make as big of an impact as he should over a year. All this is ignoring all the defensive work rooney puts in which is a huge bonus, which of the top strikers in the world, maybe tevez and suarez put in a similar amount, or something close. Nobody else.
When did Rooney before an ironman? Over the previous 3 season Rooney has averaged 40 games in all comps, Aguero averaged 40.67. Seem equally frail to me.
Since aguero came to the premier league, they've played almost the same amount of games but Rooney has played around 1000 minutes more
That's really not that much over 3+ seasons. Rooney's played 4 more PL games, over the same time period, then Aguero. That's up to 360 minutes right there. The rest was probably had a lot to do with City being comfortably ahead in games and taking Aguero at the 70 minute mark.
So, what's the issue if Rooney is slighty behind arguably the best Premier League striker then?
No issue at all apart from that some just can't admit he is behind.
That's funny, because I would say the issue is people who seem to think Rooney is poor. And yet here he is keeping pace with the much vaunted Aguero.
- Status