Heh, Falcao has done nothing to suggest that he should start ahead of Rooney. And I don't even think Rooney played well yesterday. His all round game can still be poor for large chunks of games, and I still think we could do with a new striker, but at least unlike Falcao he's getting goals, not looking depressed and luckless, and is mobile. Rooney wins anyday right now.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 14
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Hmmmm this is a tricky one. For me right now the pros and the cons are even with Rooney and for the simple fact that after soooo long of not having a settled team that plays good football I would be very very hesitant to change things up. LVG obviously rates him highly and the other players have gone on record to say how well respected and important he is the to team. He works his arse off, is undoubtedly the most mobile of our strikers, and always has a reasonable/good goal return.
However i do think that this current single striker system would also suit either Rvp or falcao as well. People have gone way too far in writing both their obituaries as valuable strikers and it is hard not to see them both doing good with the team playing this well. Posters who do not think Rooney has been poor in our last 3 games (2 of them massive matches against our two biggest rivals which is disappointing)are watching a different game to me and it consequently causes me to be curious about seeing the other two have a go instead. Just inherently don't like the idea of fcking with a winning formula though.
There's a definite chance we could see be seeing both falcao and Rvp leave this summer and I think it would be a real shame to see two world class operators not get to properly play in this talented and newly coherent Manchester United side,
However i do think that this current single striker system would also suit either Rvp or falcao as well. People have gone way too far in writing both their obituaries as valuable strikers and it is hard not to see them both doing good with the team playing this well. Posters who do not think Rooney has been poor in our last 3 games (2 of them massive matches against our two biggest rivals which is disappointing)are watching a different game to me and it consequently causes me to be curious about seeing the other two have a go instead. Just inherently don't like the idea of fcking with a winning formula though.
There's a definite chance we could see be seeing both falcao and Rvp leave this summer and I think it would be a real shame to see two world class operators not get to properly play in this talented and newly coherent Manchester United side,
Surely you're not going to just look at 7 games when earlier you made a point of looking at the season stats of how many times Falcao and Rooney have given the ball away through poor touches.
Let's look at how many goals Kane and Rooney have got through the whole season.
This is growing arms and legs? Where did I suggest any this? I just said he needs to be holding the ball up better than he has been for the last 3-4 games!
He's looking at the last 11 games. I presume this is because Rooney's played the last 11 games as a striker but wasn't beforehand.
The pass for Mata's goal was great, but apart from that he was poor, and has been the last few games.
Rooney being captain is a massive elephant in the room. He's no longer a world class #9, and isn't suited to playing deeper in the midfield. The next few years when he declines will be a nightmare.
Rooney being captain is a massive elephant in the room. He's no longer a world class #9, and isn't suited to playing deeper in the midfield. The next few years when he declines will be a nightmare.
Great idea, Rooney has spent the majority of the season in CM, and we all know that, but feck it, it'll make him look worse.
Kane is having a magnificent season, does Rooney *have* to catch him?
As long as that elephant keeps leading the herd as they stomp all over the wildebeest, rhinos and lions, it's alright by me.
Would still prefer him behind a new striker, i don't trust Rooney on his own for 38 games + UCL,LC and the FA Cup.
I thought Rooney was pretty bad yesterday but I still wouldn't even remotely consider sitting him for Falcao or RvP.
I'm aware of that and that was kind of my point in the first place. We can all pick and choose stats that make players look better or worse, or how we want them to look in truth.
If we wanted to be really pedantic we could look at the stats he posted earlier of Rooney giving the ball away 1.3 times a game through poor touches and Falcao giving it away 1.7 times per match through poor touches and then say a striker is more likely to give the ball away through poor touches as he is getting ball fizzed into him and then has a huge CB baring down on him. But then I could say well, that is the job of a striker isn't it...
Again, I'm just pointing out how easy it is to manipulate stats to make players look better/worse etc.
Actually, I would be interested to see how many times Rooney gives the ball away per match through poor touches when he plays as a striker as opposed to a midfielder. I'd like to compare that to Falcao and see if the stats match up to what seems to be the general consensus.
I don't enjoy seeing Rooney's name up front as the lone striker, it makes me cringe as i don't think thats his best position, i always think he needs a SS, whenever i see his name there as a lone striker i always think its an F.A cup game as we can afford to do that in those kind of games.
Rooney playing as a lone striker this season is the only logical option, Falcao is well.... Falcao and RVP has been injured and doesn't do as much work as Rooney - at least from what we've seen this season, we have a winning system that can only accommodate 1 striker and it should be Rooney at least for the first 60 minutes.
Rooney playing as a lone striker this season is the only logical option, Falcao is well.... Falcao and RVP has been injured and doesn't do as much work as Rooney - at least from what we've seen this season, we have a winning system that can only accommodate 1 striker and it should be Rooney at least for the first 60 minutes.
2 goal and 1 assist in last 4 games. Not that bad hey.
From our winning streak started(bar Arse);
VS--------Unsc Touches-------Dispossessed-----Passing acc
S'land---------2---------------------2------------------82%(Lost it most in team)
N'castle-------1---------------------4------------------90%(lost it most in team)
Arsenal--------1---------------------3------------------78%(lost it 2nd most)
T'ham---------1----------------------2------------------78%
L'pool----------2---------------------1------------------77%
Villa------------2---------------------3------------------84%(Lost it most)
City-------------4---------------------1-----------------88%(lost it most)
Average--------1.9------------------2.3----------------82%
Seasonal for the two below per game:
RVP------------1.3-------------------1.5----------------85%
Falcao---------1.8--------------------1.7----------------85%
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@Annahnomoss So if I'm reading that right, Rooney loses the ball more, gets dispossessed more and has a worse passing accuracy than Falcao?
Per game. You have to take into consideration that Falcao often plays less minutes. Then you have to take into account that Rooney has dropped down to midfield for some matches and that his passing accuracy should benefit from that etc etc.
Just statistics, if someone wants they can further refine them by turning it to "per minute" instead of per game.
Yeah, a per 90 minutes would be ideal.
Either way, Falcao's seems to be in and around Rooney's which is interesting as a poor first touch and constantly being dispossessed are two criticisms constantly thrown at Falcao. Thanks for the stats.
If Rooney were to perform in a similar fashion to yesterday for an entire season, would we be content with him? I know I wouldn't. I appreciate his effort, determination and energy, however, he's going to have to do much more if we are to challenge on all fronts, next season.
No worries! I would say Falcao has quite a significant amount of more failed touches than RVP and Rooney considering he's came on very late in most matches and that counts as "one game" while he still has as many lost balls per game.
That said Falcao averages a goal/assist every 115 minute.
Rooney averages a goal/assist every 130 minutes.
RVP averages a goal/assist every 166 minutes.
As a starter Falcao has scored/assisted by far the best amount per minute of the lot with only one goal/assist coming from him as a substitute.
So his goals/assists per minute would drastically decrease and be even more superior if we based it on starts.
Again this doesn't mean anything except exactly what it means, it is just statistics.
The MNF analysis made me appreciate Rooney more so for what he did for the system (even though he only had like 35 touches).
He doesn't get nearly enough recognition for how disicplined and tactically astute he is. Just takes a couple of heavy touches and everyone's saying he's been crap. Good thing managers (and Neville) are more perceptive.
Not blowing my own trumpet here, by the way. I also thought he was a bit crap yesterday!
Neville's analysis on Rooney was amazing, I thought Rooney had an average game as well but couldn't understand the heavy criticism considering how we tore City's defence apart. Even if you're not as perceptive as Neville, and I'm certainly not, you must surely link that our front striker would have had some influence on the game beyond just the token assist and heavy touches.
Great to see Neville talking through how good Rooney's performance against City, highlighting his tactical awareness and the importance of his positioning and running.
It was really bothering me seeing people under-rate his contribution to the game and to this team in general - he's so important to this system working and is playing so well up top on his own.
It was really bothering me seeing people under-rate his contribution to the game and to this team in general - he's so important to this system working and is playing so well up top on his own.
But his first touch, people!
Just seen the analysis too and of course you have to get Rooney credit. Though I thought Neville went a little over the top with his praise. In terms of his performance in the City game. Obviously I'm not sure but surely he's been doing what he did against City in our recent games of good form.
Even when Rooney has a bad game he does so much to bring the midfielders into play with the way he holds the ball and plays 1-2s. He's also often the first one to sprint back to defend on a counter. When you compare that with other strikers who tend to be a net negative when they are not scoring and its not debatable how important he is to the team.
He's not been great in the last two games but there's currently no justification for replacing him in the lineup with RVP, and especially not with Falcao. He should start against Chelsea barring injury or fatigue.
Neville on Rooney's performance Vs City:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...e-barely-touching-ball-says-Gary-Neville.html
But Rooneys Inverse Fan Club know better.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...e-barely-touching-ball-says-Gary-Neville.html
But Rooneys Inverse Fan Club know better.
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He also called Rooney's performance against City "a silent domination", which I thought summed it up brilliantly.
Here's what I said about Rooney's performances in November:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/way...out-performances.393849/page-59#post-16733991
Now, i'm not saying i've forgotten far more about Rooney's career and the finer points of his game than most of his detractors will ever know - but, well, I have forgotten far more about Rooney's career and the finer points of his game than most of his detractors will ever know.
Was a very insightful summation from Neville, got to say I do enjoy MNF analysis. Must have really stuck in Carraghers throat to have to praise United's defensive set-up straight after too!
Here's what I said about Rooney's performances in November:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/way...out-performances.393849/page-59#post-16733991
Now, i'm not saying i've forgotten far more about Rooney's career and the finer points of his game than most of his detractors will ever know - but, well, I have forgotten far more about Rooney's career and the finer points of his game than most of his detractors will ever know.
It's petty to brag about being right, NessunDorma...
But I too am a petty man! Here's what I said about Rooney's performance against City in the tide of criticism he was getting on here...
Assistant manager praising his captain and friend shocker. It's like using Jamie Jackson's article to prove that Hart is better than de Gea.
If that yesterday was Rooney's best United performance then I actually feel sorry for him.
I would think that being lead striker for a team like Manchester United means being lot more than just tactically excellent. Van Persie was tactically our best player in the first half of the season because he was the only one getting van Gaal's philosophy and yet we all wanted to see him dropped because he was crap, I rarely remember anyone praising him because he was tactically excellent. But yeah, this is Wayne Rooney we are talking about, even when he can't control the ball he is still doing great things nobody can see because who really cares about how good an attacking player is with the ball really.
If that yesterday was Rooney's best United performance then I actually feel sorry for him.
I would think that being lead striker for a team like Manchester United means being lot more than just tactically excellent. Van Persie was tactically our best player in the first half of the season because he was the only one getting van Gaal's philosophy and yet we all wanted to see him dropped because he was crap, I rarely remember anyone praising him because he was tactically excellent. But yeah, this is Wayne Rooney we are talking about, even when he can't control the ball he is still doing great things nobody can see because who really cares about how good an attacking player is with the ball really.
Positional Discipline.
Ever since Rooney's moved up front, he's always been playing really well for the team even if his individual performances weren't up to par. His movement and work rate always gives central defenders a tough time, and it's one of the reasons why we perform as well as we do as a team. Rooney's energies are now all focused on working for the benefit of the team, and you can see that the team still plays well even if Rooney, individually, isn't playing as well.
The way he occupies the central defenders means that Mata and Fellaini can get into space and make themselves dangerous. It also allows players like Herrera to ghost into positions into the box and score goals. Not only that, but Rooney makes central defenders reluctant to charge up and try to win the ball, and if they do, then you get Mata's goal against Man. City.
Individually, for the past several matches, Rooney has been below average. For the team, however, he's been great if not world class.
The way he occupies the central defenders means that Mata and Fellaini can get into space and make themselves dangerous. It also allows players like Herrera to ghost into positions into the box and score goals. Not only that, but Rooney makes central defenders reluctant to charge up and try to win the ball, and if they do, then you get Mata's goal against Man. City.
Individually, for the past several matches, Rooney has been below average. For the team, however, he's been great if not world class.
Watch Neville's analysis again.
It isn't biased, it's tactical insight and it's educational.
I still can't believe people have been comparing Falcao to Rooney. That's absurd even by the levels of madness you see in this thread.
- Status