[berbatrick]

you do realise Falcao played 7 minutes to Rooney's 90?

Rooney was on the pitch for 93 minutes, Falcao was on the pitch for 11 minutes when the game was already dead. Strewth . . .

*Sigh*

Rewatch the last 10 mins, there were 2-3 times when Falcao had Mangala/Demichelis on his back but still found a pass. Rooney failed at it today.
Am I saying Rooney should be dropped? No. Do I think Falcao would do a better job? No.
Did Falcao demonstrate a better touch in his tiny cameo? Yes. Do the stats back up what was obvious to my eyes? Yes.
Is this something that can be pointed out? Not without being called insane and with everyones favourite green smiley being thrown around. I don't understand what people would lose by admitting that Rooney's touch was horribly off today while Falcao's (to the extent we can judge) wasn't.

 

[Lou-is Red]

Rooney for me summed up what was wrong with City, one of our most influencial players not doing anything outstanding but worked non stop for the full game, toure, silva stopped working after 15 minutes

 

[Welbeckham]

Don't think he was shite against Villa at all, unless we have some extraordinary high standards

He was overall, but that goal really "saved" him and made people think of it as a good performance. The way he's playing he should score more to afford it, I think he should do a lot better than he has done recently. It might be a bit harsh thing to say, but getting Rooney out of that midfield has really helped us. He's a striker, but he hasn't shown anything to suggest he's nearly as good a striker as he used to be (09-10, 11-12).

 

[NessunDorma]

*Sigh*

Rewatch the last 10 mins, there were 2-3 times when Falcao had Mangala/Demichelis on his back but still found a pass. Rooney failed at it today.
Am I saying Rooney should be dropped? No. Do I think Falcao would do a better job? No.
Did Falcao demonstrate a better touch in his tiny cameo? Yes. Do the stats back up what was obvious to my eyes? Yes.
Is this something that can be pointed out? Not without being called insane and with everyones favourite green smiley being thrown around. I don't understand what people would lose by admitting that Rooney's touch was horribly off today while Falcao's (to the extent we can judge) wasn't.

Because you aren't really comparing apples with apples. Falcao came on when the game was already dead, he was fresh, he was up against tiring defenders, and he didn't have time to do much of anything at all, good or bad.

Comparing his stats from that brief cameo against the stats of someone who played 90+ minutes isn't really fair.

But I guess we could check their season averages for the number of times per game they lose the ball through a poor touch. And it looks like this:

Rooney - 1.3
Falcao - 1.7 (the highest average in the squad)

 

[berbatrick]

Because you aren't really comparing apples with apples. Falcao came on when the game was already dead, he was fresh, he was up against tiring defenders, and he didn't time to do much of anything at all, good or bad.

Comparing his stats from that brief cameo against the stats of someone who played 90+ minutes isn't really fair.

But I guess we could look at their season average for the number of times per game they lose the ball through a poor touch. And it looks like this:

Rooney - 1.3
Falcao - 1.7 (the highest average in the squad)

FFS. I will quote myself:
Really poor today
Besides that his hold-up play was off today, he kept losing tha ball under minimal pressure and Falcao showed him up on that front (I don't think he lost the ball once after he came on)- not a sentence I would ever expect to type.
Rewatch the last 10 mins, there were 2-3 times when Falcao had Mangala/Demichelis on his back but still found a pass. Rooney failed at it today.

 

[Dave89]

Our furthest man back during city's break after our corner that somehow stayed out. Can't fault the man's work ethic.

 

[Ole240599]

I don't see Rooney as an automatic first choice centre forward for Manchester United in 15/16. He is still a good player but surely with the money that we. Are reputed to have to spend why wouldn't we get a top 5 younger CF?

 

[NessunDorma]

FFS. I will quote myself:
Really poor today
Besides that his hold-up play was off today, he kept losing tha ball under minimal pressure and Falcao showed him up on that front (I don't think he lost the ball once after he came on)- not a sentence I would ever expect to type.
Rewatch the last 10 mins, there were 2-3 times when Falcao had Mangala/Demichelis on his back but still found a pass. Rooney failed at it today.

Well, okay then. Falco didn't lose the ball in his ten minute cameo when the game was dead, and this really showed Rooney up. Just like the fact Falcao had a worse pass completion than Rooney in that ten minute cameo really showed Falcao up. Or something. Because those ten minutes are all that matter.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He doesn't half jump into people during celebrations... It's almost Phil Jones like!

 

[Rezyuz]

The same RvP who doesn't bother running, who has no pace to stretch defenses, who wouldn't ever put the sort of pressure that lead to goals vs Newcaslte and Villa, who doesn't bother doing much defensive work and the same RvP who has looked way off the pace all season? Maybe a new striker could do a better job than Rooney but none of the other strikers at our club can do this role better than Rooney is doing. RvP of two years ago maybe, not this version who doesn't look fit beyond the 60th minute.

Whats the point of having more pace in Rooneys advantage when he cannot hold up a ball, dribble or beat his defender infant of him? Atleast RvP can. And why stretch a defense with pace when RvP has the ability to connect and link up far better then Rooney?

I honestly don't think the stuff Rooney is doing is more valuable then what RvP can offer us. You are judging RvP on a bad streak when he was totally out of form (everyone was including Rooney). The team is stable now, and in a stable team I believe RvP to be superior to Rooney.

The problem is more, where would Rooney play if RvP gets in. Because this midfield atm is better without Rooney.

 

[Rezyuz]

No chance. Hes lazy. Rooney is valuable to our high pressing game. His movement in behind is so much better than rvps, creates space for others and gives defenders something to think about.

He did score a worldy last week as well, can't remember him having a shot today.

If theres any striker in the world who has excellent movement its RvP. Rooney actually gets slaughtered for his bad positioning making spaces narrow by hugging others last season.

 

[Lawman]

Don't think he was shite against Villa at all, unless we have some extraordinary high standards

No extraordinary high standards but he couldn't trap a bag of cement that day. It wasn't only me who thought that but half the stand where I was watching were groaning. He did score a wonder goal though. Ps I'm not a Rooney hater I think he's our best player but his touch has been dreadful of late so let's be honest.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

He doesn't half jump into people during celebrations... It's almost Phil Jones like!

I can't recall the opponent ( i think Arsenal), but i remember a Van Persie goal last season at home where he jumped on Van Persie and it looked like his neck could break at any moment.

edit : Against Arsenal indeed, when Vermaelen made that defensive error.

 

[Brightonian]

No extraordinary high standards but he couldn't trap a bag of cement that day. It wasn't only me who thought that but half the stand where I was watching were groaning. He did score a wonder goal though. Ps I'm not a Rooney hater I think he's our best player but his touch has been dreadful of late so let's be honest.

Oy, this thing about Rooney's touch. You're talking about passes that no-one else on the pitch has to receive, because Rooney's our only striker. He gets the ball fired at him with his back to goal and a big CB breathing down his neck. That heavy touch away from the defender is how he controls the fizzed passes without getting his pocket picked. If Mata spent all game trying to field those passes, his first touch would look much less impressive too. But he doesn't, because he's the one providing them.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

People are entitled to opinions, which you'll find will differ among a population of more than one. Certain people established that Rooney's performance wasn't great, some thought it was shit; not sure how that constitutes to hating him. The criticism is in order, as well, he hasn't be impressive over the last few games.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

He was overall, but that goal really "saved" him and made people think of it as a good performance. The way he's playing he should score more to afford it, I think he should do a lot better than he has done recently. It might be a bit harsh thing to say, but getting Rooney out of that midfield has really helped us. He's a striker, but he hasn't shown anything to suggest he's nearly as good a striker as he used to be (09-10, 11-12).

Wasn't just the goal but the fact that he kept the Villa defence occupied all game also helped, that and the "assist" for Herrera's second as well which came about because of Rooney being a nuisance. I don't think that goal would have come about if we had Van Persie playing instead of Rooney.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I can't recall the opponent ( i think Arsenal), but i remember a Van Persie goal last season at home where he jumped on Van Persie and it looked like his neck could break at any moment.

edit : Against Arsenal indeed, when Vermaelen made that defensive error.

Aye... could have killed him.

 

[markhrad]

I have maintained that RVP and Falcao have been unfairly criticized and that their poor performances is due to a lack of creativity by our central midfielders. Now Rooney is playing on top the same thing is happening to him. As much as people seem to love Mata he rarely turns and faces opponents while looking for through passes. Only Carrick seems to actively look for and delivers said through passes.
I am not going to complain too much because I just want to make the top 3 (4) and it looks like we are going to achieve it but to be honest I think we have been quite fortunate in terms of recent results considering our lack of midfield creativity.

 

[ZDwyr]

Wasn't great, but he did get an assist. He works harder than RvP and Falcao though, and so for me that should keep him in ahead of them.

 

[bosnian_red]

I have maintained that RVP and Falcao have been unfairly criticized and that their poor performances is due to a lack of creativity by our central midfielders. Now Rooney is playing on top the same thing is happening to him. As much as people seem to love Mata he rarely turns and faces opponents while looking for through passes. Only Carrick seems to actively look for and delivers said through passes.
I am not going to complain too much because I just want to make the top 3 (4) and it looks like we are going to achieve it but to be honest I think we have been quite fortunate in terms of recent results considering our lack of midfield creativity.

If you truly believe that then you are just incredibly pessimistic... Fortunate with recent results? The feck are you on about. We've played City, Spurs, Liverpool and Villa off the park each time.

 

[prarek]

Didn't have a great game but wasn't bad either, got an assist and worked hard. Hopefully this means he'll have a great game at SB.

 

[markhrad]

If you truly believe that then you are just incredibly pessimistic... Fortunate with recent results? The feck are you on about. We've played City, Spurs, Liverpool and Villa off the park each time.

Not talking about our general play just our creativity. The key point to my post was a lack of midfield creativity making our strikers, even Rooney, look poor.

 

[bosnian_red]

Not talking about our general play just our creativity. The key point to my post was a lack of midfield creativity making our strikers, even Rooney, look poor.

We've created plenty of chances though in recent games... And Rooney for the most part has played well, apart from the Liverpool game. Today the chances didn't fall to him but they fell to young, mata, fellaini, Carrick even. That was a fair argument a few months back but not really anymore I don't think.... Also Rooney as he was today and against Liverpool is still better then what falcao and rvp served up. The off the ball runs, pressing, hold up play and constant battling with defenders and dragging them around is just stuff van Persie and falcao didn't do to a good level.

 

[mazhar13]

He doesn't half jump into people during celebrations... It's almost Phil Jones like!

It's nothing new from him as well.



Skip to 6:10 to see what I mean.

 

[XdanielredX]

*** pass

Ridiculous pass

 

[Americano]

I don't see Rooney as an automatic first choice centre forward for Manchester United in 15/16. He is still a good player but surely with the money that we. Are reputed to have to spend why wouldn't we get a top 5 younger CF?

Funny you should say that. After today's match, I was wondering about his role in the team next year and the year after.

The midfield experiment failed, and that was supposed to be his future role. He's effective as a striker and offers many other qualities as a forward but honestly is a notch below the kind of player we want in that role. He's old enough to start experiencing a decline in his ability, pace, and fitness. We should be buying a top striker soon - what do we do with Rooney?

 

[Lawman]

Oy, this thing about Rooney's touch. You're talking about passes that no-one else on the pitch has to receive, because Rooney's our only striker. He gets the ball fired at him with his back to goal and a big CB breathing down his neck. That heavy touch away from the defender is how he controls the fizzed passes without getting his pocket picked. If Mata spent all game trying to field those passes, his first touch would look much less impressive too. But he doesn't, because he's the one providing them.

Brightonian that's his job and I'm not judging him against Mata but against Giroud, Costa, Sterling, Kane and the likes who are all playing up top through the middle. Rooney has massive other attributes on these players but when it comes to the ball sticking to him with back to goal he has been poor of late.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

It's nothing new from him as well.



Skip to 6:10 to see what I mean.

He could have died there.

 

[NessunDorma]

Brightonian that's his job and I'm not judging him against Mata but against Giroud, Costa, Sterling, Kane and the likes who are all playing up top through the middle. Rooney has massive other attributes on these players but when it comes to the ball sticking to him with back to goal he has been poor of late.

Rooney and Kane have both scored 7 goals in their last 11 games for club and country.

Based off this, one's the new Shearer/Batistuta/Van Basten, and one is an old fart who's past his best and possibly needs to be replaced in the summer.

And it's been this way for 5 years now with Rooney. He's been 'in decline' since he was 23.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Well, I don't see explosions that often anymore.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

Rooney and Kane have both scored 7 goals in their last 11 games for club and country.

Based off this, one's the new Shearer/Batistuta/Van Basten, and one is an old fart who's past his best and possibly needs to be replaced in the summer.

And it's been this way for 5 years now with Rooney. He's been 'in decline' since he was 23.

Yes, it's quite ridiculous.

If Rooney had been playing up top the entire season, there's no doubt that he would be challenging Kane / Costa / Aguero for the top scorer title.

 

[settembrini]

Wasn't great, but he did get an assist. He works harder than RvP and Falcao though, and so for me that should keep him in ahead of them.

Yeah it was an okay performance from Rooney. Another demonstration of why I prefer him to Falcao and RvP. When he's not playing well he still does the minimum things I expect of a forward, the other two don't.

 

[Amar__]

I have maintained that RVP and Falcao have been unfairly criticized and that their poor performances is due to a lack of creativity by our central midfielders. Now Rooney is playing on top the same thing is happening to him. As much as people seem to love Mata he rarely turns and faces opponents while looking for through passes. Only Carrick seems to actively look for and delivers said through passes.
I am not going to complain too much because I just want to make the top 3 (4) and it looks like we are going to achieve it but to be honest I think we have been quite fortunate in terms of recent results considering our lack of midfield creativity.

This is just ridiculous.

Excuses for Rooney are incredible, now our midfield is bad too because they aren't feeding him with the balls, even though he can't control even half of those he gets into his feet and even though our midfield is dominating every team we are facing at the moment. Yeah, everyone is shit except Rooney.

I blame de Gea for not playing Rooney one on one with the keeper at least once per game.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

If Rooney plays as our default #9 next year, in a settled team, he's going to have a blistering season.

 

[Nighteyes]

Well, I don't see explosions that often anymore.

Well he did explode against West Ham and people wanted his head to roll following that...

This is just ridiculous.

Excuses for Rooney are incredible, now our midfield is bad too because they aren't feeding him with the balls, even though he can't control even half of those he gets into his feet and even though our midfield is dominating every team we are facing at the moment. Yeah, everyone is shit except Rooney.

I blame de Gea for not playing Rooney one on one with the keeper at least once per game.

Considering half your posts in this thread are calling Rooney shite, terrible, average, most uncreative player in our squad and probably a bunch of other garbage, you would be wise not to accuse anyone else of bias or making up excuses.

Probably the worst poster in the thread. But then again you were the guy who thought we were shite at Anfield...sums you up really.

 

[Amar__]

Well he did explode against West Ham and people wanted his head to roll following that...



Considering half your posts in this thread are calling Rooney shite, terrible, average, most uncreative player in our squad and probably a bunch of other garbage, you would be wise not to accuse anyone else of bias or making up excuses.

Probably the worst poster in the thread. But then again you were the guy who thought we were shite at Anfield...sums you up really.

I am not calling Rooney shite, I think he is our second or third most important important player, I just can't stand how people can be blind to his poor form. Last three games are obvious example, he is easily one of our worst players during that time yet people like you are saying he is doing fine. But yeah, I am the one who is biased.
I never said Rooney is crap or anything like that, I say from time to time that his form is crap, but he is definitely very good player in general.

Btw calling me out when the guy above said that our midfield is at fault for Rooney's poor form is just idiotic.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

French TV pundits were raving about him yesterday. Ginola seems to be in love with him, he's in the studio for Canal + (handsome bastard) and he was going on about how if he was a coach, Rooney is the first player he'd sign. Absolutely loves him, he was explaining how his palette of skills is pretty much unique in world football.

The commentators love him as well, and were very insistent about his importance in the team effort.

 

[DWelbz19]

If Rooney plays as our default #9 next year, in a settled team, he's going to have a blistering season.

I agree.

 

[ZDwyr]

I would like him to score before RvP gets back just so van Gaal doesn't consider moving him back to midfield.

 

[JUPITER]

French TV pundits were raving about him yesterday. Ginola seems to be in love with him, he's in the studio for Canal + (handsome bastard) and he was going on about how if he was a coach, Rooney is the first player he'd sign. Absolutely loves him, he was explaining how his palette of skills is pretty much unique in world football.

The commentators love him as well, and were very insistent about his importance in the team effort.

David Ginola...? Haven't they heard that the experts on Redcafe have decided that Rooney was 'shown up by Falcao' yesterday!?

They clearly have a lot to learn about football!