Agreed. he was already on his way down and he just locked his whole lower body up and fell to the ground.
I'll be happy if our players stopped diving when every teams players stop diving.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Agreed. he was already on his way down and he just locked his whole lower body up and fell to the ground.
I'll be happy if our players stopped diving when every teams players stop diving.
You do realize that diving will NEVER go out if every player thinks the way you do right?
Exactly, and I do think that diving will NEVER go out.
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/footb...eing/laws-of-the-game/law/newsid=1290872.html
So yeah, according to the laws of the game it would be fully legal.
Difference is these days that players encroach like mad every penalty kick, that sort of goal probably wouldnt have a chance of being scored thesedays.
The element of surprise might have a say in this
Not saying it'd definitely work, but I like to think it'd stand a decent chance of working, provided a team mate or two of yours know what you're going for prior to you trying to pull it off.
Any word on his injury?
Looked like a bad knock.With what happened to players who carried on while being hurt in recent times, it was wise to take him off and not attempt to have him shrug it
Definitely.
He put in a couple of crosses after the injury and seemed okay but yeah no need to take a risk
His one touch passing hit some new lows today.
Just kept chipping it up in the air.
Just kept chipping it up in the air.
Hopefully enough to see him miss the England game but back for Norwich. He didn't do much today but still better to have him than not.
Seems to enjoy being the creator/playmaker more than being a striker these days. Not a coincidence that he doesn't play particularly well when Scholes is on the pitch with him at the same time. Seems to perform better when Cleverley/Anderson are making the runs around him.
it was sort of a given with the amount of options up front that Rooney would play a bit of a different role. He doesn't exactly play as a midfielder, but he did move a bit further back, and although I haven't paid much attention to it I agree with you regarding Scholes.
I think in this deeper role he needs to try turning and carrying the ball towards the opposition on a more regular basis, it's the main thing missing from his game in that role imo.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I've been thinking, and I think the Scholes-Carrick partnership does Rooney more harm than good the way he's set up to play now.
They barely cover any ground, whether that's going forward or on defense, Rooney constantly has to drop deep to receive the ball and even more so when we lose it, because as it has been pointed out before, he's usualy the first one back on defense out of the 3, and he's the one furthest forward (on paper).
Granted I don't think Rooney's ever actualy suffered from low stamina, but covering for the non-existent midfield in defense does take a lot out of a player, and it's probably also due to this that he sometimes isn't as effective going forward.
Now this is all speculation, or should I say observation on my part, I might be wrong but I honestly believe they're doing him and the team more damage than good.
Honestly I can't remember the amount of times I saw Rooney making a tackle in or around the edge of our box this season, not only is he counted upon as one of if not the main creative option, but he's now also supposed to cover for them in defense as well, something's not right with this.
They barely cover any ground, whether that's going forward or on defense, Rooney constantly has to drop deep to receive the ball and even more so when we lose it, because as it has been pointed out before, he's usualy the first one back on defense out of the 3, and he's the one furthest forward (on paper).
Granted I don't think Rooney's ever actualy suffered from low stamina, but covering for the non-existent midfield in defense does take a lot out of a player, and it's probably also due to this that he sometimes isn't as effective going forward.
Now this is all speculation, or should I say observation on my part, I might be wrong but I honestly believe they're doing him and the team more damage than good.
Honestly I can't remember the amount of times I saw Rooney making a tackle in or around the edge of our box this season, not only is he counted upon as one of if not the main creative option, but he's now also supposed to cover for them in defense as well, something's not right with this.
Uhm... Carrick frequently covers about 13k over a game which is one of the largest amounts for a United player. Rooney is normally in the same range but still the point is Carrick is not static as implied.
There's certain times in games where Rooney just drops deep behind the CMs, at times you see a defender playing the ball to Giggs/Anderson/Cleverley where Rooney's position normally is and you see Rooney in the CM role.
Carrick has always covered a good amount of ground for us. Perhaps, more analysis should be devoted towards what he's doing when he covers so much ground. No excuse for being lethargic on the ball
Before I say anything I want you to know I'm not trying to put down Carrick in any way, but Carrick could cover 15k a game for all I care regarding this.
Yes, he's a better reader of the game than he is a tackler or anything like that, but let's be honest here, how many times do you actualy see Carrick sprint back on defense to help close somebody down? It's always one of Rooney/Chicharito/Valencia. Now I'm not trying to point out a single mistake or something, but to me it's very apparent our midfield is non exsistent when the oposition gets the ball, every team (and I do mean EVERY TEAM) strolls through our midfield at times. We can blame the defenders all we want, but I doubt we'd concede so many goals if they actualy had some sort of cover infront of them for a difference.
I'm not going to bother mentioning Scholes, because I think we can all agree on that part, even though he's a fecking legend he shouldn't start, and should be used when we're leading and trying to hold on to the lead, because the only real positive thing right now about the Carrick-Scholes combo is their ability to retain posession of the ball and that's it.
Hey I know lots here love to slate Carrick. I am not in that camp but I know many will not be convinced that what he does helps team win (best winning percentage in CL football by any player on any team with over 50 apperances anyone... http://natterfootball.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/michael-carrick/?). So my point is slate Carrick if you will, but at least bother to get a real reason.
It's not "slating" Carrick, it's pointing out the ineffectiveness of the pairing and why it is so.
I admire Carrick and in no way underestimate his importance to United, I'm just saying he's not the most mobile of players, and with him trying to cover for Scholes some times as well, he in turn gets more tired which forces Rooney deeper as well, etc.
Carrick is the one player we couldn't afford to be injured in our team simply because we have no adequate cover, not to mention his obvious quality, you don't need to go looking for random stats to try and prove your point, no one's saying it's "Carrick's fault".
There are lots of different ways to defend, carricks style is much more about tactical positioning and that's hard to quantify because you can't just look at interceptions made, although that would give some indication, but some of it can just be getting in the right areas to slow the attack or prevent a dangerous ball and let other players get back. He's not a big tackler but he does it his way and generally it works well.
It's always gonna be tough for carrick because we play in a wide system where there is lots of space to exploit and beyond fletcher he's yet to have a partner who can offer defensive strength of his own. Scholes doesn't have the pace or energy, giggs can go awol, ando in the past has been guilty of loosing concentration and clev is still learning about a deeper role.
Personally I don't think Rooney has to work overly hard next to them, he probably had to do more in the diamond where he was having to come back from an a/m position to get in next to carrick who was already playing deep. End of the day though yesterday if the likes of Rooney actually showed up in the first half and used the ball when it was given to them they'd have likely scored earlier and everyone would have had an easier game.
It's always gonna be tough for carrick because we play in a wide system where there is lots of space to exploit and beyond fletcher he's yet to have a partner who can offer defensive strength of his own. Scholes doesn't have the pace or energy, giggs can go awol, ando in the past has been guilty of loosing concentration and clev is still learning about a deeper role.
Personally I don't think Rooney has to work overly hard next to them, he probably had to do more in the diamond where he was having to come back from an a/m position to get in next to carrick who was already playing deep. End of the day though yesterday if the likes of Rooney actually showed up in the first half and used the ball when it was given to them they'd have likely scored earlier and everyone would have had an easier game.
So being lethargic on the ball isn't a real reason? Being slow to get into good positions is not a real reason? Letting players bypass you easily isn't a real reason?
Cmon mate. He does some wonderful things for us but he still looks off the pace for me. Even if he covers the most ground. He can perform much better than this. This is "timid" Carrick and it's annoying to watch.
I agree with you on the majority of this, but you don't think Rooney's been like a work horse lately?
He's probably made more tackles and consequently won posession back than anyone on the team this season bar Ferdinand, Rafael.
Agree though, we could've scored earlier but it's hardly Rooney's fault alone. Our wingers were shit, our midfield was static, and neither Rooney or RvP were feeling it in the first half.
I recognize the fact that Carrick's primarily a game reader not a tackler, and I'm fine with that. But sometimes he does frustrate me (not necessarily only him, but more-so as in our whole midfield some of the time) because although I'm aware he's trying, he doesn't always look like it.
He can be the best reader of the game in the world for all I care, it doesn't excuse his sometimes lethargic way, and when you have someone like Scholes along side him who with all due respect offers nothing on defense, you have half a runner instead of 2 in midfield, and that obviously leads to us being open and giving up so many quick chances all the time. With Anderson and Cleverley you're atleast going to get someone with speed on the pitch, someone who's willing to run the extra mile (RUN, not walk), close down the opposition's attack from time to time, not to mention actualy try and penetrate their defense/midfield for a change instead of just passing it out to Valencia and hope for a miracle.
"They barely cover any ground" was the original argument mate, hence my response.
You offer some more thoughtful commentary which is worthy of consideration and debate. I too get frustrated at times with Carrick, but the fact remains he covers lots of ground and now we can debate what he is doing all that time and all over the place (perhaps in the Carrick thread
).Fair?
I agree Rooney has been working hard but I don't think that's down to one combination being more open than others, I don't see Rooney working harder with carrick scholes as he does with carrick cleverley for instance. I think we need to work hard because like I said we don't have a balanced partner for carrick in the middle and we play usually play in such a wide formation. When we play more narrow we keep the ball better and usually win it back quicker but with the way we do it Rooney still has to track back a lot.
Carrick could do more and try to advance with the ball by I think it gets over played. Yesterday in the first half he tried to get involved at times further up the pitch but it didn't come off and he can't do it all game as he still has to shield the defence. As for passing it wide that was the game plan, if we don't give it to Valencia out wide than he serves no purpose and its not like they didn't give it to Rooney in central areas but he didn't do much with it an was just as guilty of just using the wide pass
Carrick could do more and try to advance with the ball by I think it gets over played. Yesterday in the first half he tried to get involved at times further up the pitch but it didn't come off and he can't do it all game as he still has to shield the defence. As for passing it wide that was the game plan, if we don't give it to Valencia out wide than he serves no purpose and its not like they didn't give it to Rooney in central areas but he didn't do much with it an was just as guilty of just using the wide pass
I'll be waiting Rob
Out of the England friendly
Sleeves are too long.
fecking missed him tonight!!!
Yeah, doubt we would've lost that with him playing. How long is he out for?
It's too bad a 30+ goal a year player has to now play midfield.
It is a waste of Rooney's goal scoring talent but I'd rather Rooney there than Giggs or Scholes.
It is a waste of Rooney's goal scoring talent but I'd rather Rooney there than Giggs or Scholes.
Yeah for all those who somehow fail to appreciate Rooney. Tonight he would have made a difference. No question
So would Anderson and Cleverley. The result today wasn't due to no Rooney, it was Sir Alex's line up and subs.
Rooney is the most important player in the team.He's the one when he doesn't play gets noticed the most
How exactly can you prove that? We had enough quality in our remaining squad to get a comfortable win yet Fergie did basically everything he shouldn't have and unsurprisingly we lost.
Had Cleverley or Anderson started or been brought on earlier I don't think anyone would be talking about Rooney missing.
We're in the business of "proving" things now ? It doesn't take a genius to realize that with Rooney the flow of the attacking is better.We missed him just like we missed an energetic midfield.
Maybe you can "prove" that with Anderson/Cleverley we'd have won the match
Maybe you can "prove" that with Anderson/Cleverley we'd have won the match
See?
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