Wayne Rooney | 2011/12 Performances

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Chabon said:
Comparing the two is absolutely insane. Rooney's one of the top few goalscorers in the knockout stages of the Champions League over the last six seasons, I think he comes third after the obvious two. Ibra on the other hand has scored exactly three goals at that stage in his entire career. It's a fecking ludicrous comparison, and a massive insult to Rooney.
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Where did you get that stat from? Wikipedia says:

Messi: 26
Ronaldo: 20
Raul: 18
Sheva: 18
Inzaghi: 16
Henry: 12
Morientes: 9
Del Piero: 9
RvN: 6

Where is Rooney? :confused:

Nevermind, you said "over the last 6 seasons". But if the above list is correct, he should be below 6 goals. Which isn't much better than Ibra's record.
 
Chabon said:
Comparing the two is absolutely insane. Rooney's one of the top few goalscorers in the knockout stages of the Champions League over the last six seasons, I think he comes third after the obvious two. Ibra on the other hand has scored exactly three goals at that stage in his entire career. It's a fecking ludicrous comparison, and a massive insult to Rooney.
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What a stupid thing to say. They've scored the same amount of goals in Europe but other than that Zlatan has been the better goalscorer.
It's not at all a ludicrous comparison. Both players have mostly been the focal point in attack but they've also been 2nd fiddle to a better player sometime in their careers. Both players are consistent goalscorers and both players help their team mates out with assists. Statistically they are very similar players.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Agree with this. I've been convinced of this watching him over the last season.
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I've been standing by the fact that he'd be our in behind the striker man for years to come ever since he was so important in leading us to that 19th title, and nothing changed at the start of last season, but that's really started to change recently and the more time goes on, the more I think he's just going to be more of a goalscorer for us. It's a shame because I really felt he was going to be the best all-round forward in the world and break away from the rest over time, but I just don't see that happening now. He's still a world class striker, yes, but I think there's more of him that we may never see on a consistent basis unfortunately.
 
He's that bad on the ball quite frequently for United, its just a surprise that anyone that watches him would expect him to suddenly find the "one shot, one kill" kind of excellence that's needed in a few super tough knockout games... big rift between what England and United fans expect of him and what his actual ability is.
 
EB100 said:
He's that bad on the ball quite frequently for United, its just a surprise that anyone that watches him would expect him to suddenly find the "one shot, one kill" kind of excellence that's needed in a few super tough knockout games... big rift between what England and United fans expect of him and what his actual ability is.
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It's just so frustrating that he can be like that for us sometimes. All players go off form at times, however his low level seems to be woefully worse than a lot of players are. I'm just hoping that we don't see the likes of his performance tonight for us at all next season, and that he can gradually weed that bottom level out of his game.
 
Homeomorphic said:
Where did you get that stat from? Wikipedia says:

Messi: 26
Ronaldo: 20
Raul: 18
Sheva: 18
Inzaghi: 16
Henry: 12
Morientes: 9
Del Piero: 9
RvN: 6

Where is Rooney? :confused:

Nevermind, you said "over the last 6 seasons". But if the above list is correct, he should be below 6 goals. Which isn't much better than Ibra's record.
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Off the top of my head, he's scored at least 5 against Milan, 2 against Roma, one against Barcelona, one against Chelsea. That list is definitely incorrect.

Edit: There you go.

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/rooneys-goalscoring-record-champions-league-knockout-stages-327782/
 
Cheesy said:
I've been standing by the fact that he'd be our in behind the striker man for years to come ever since he was so important in leading us to that 19th title, and nothing changed at the start of last season, but that's really started to change recently and the more time goes on, the more I think he's just going to be more of a goalscorer for us. It's a shame because I really felt he was going to be the best all-round forward in the world and break away from the rest over time, but I just don't see that happening now. He's still a world class striker, yes, but I think there's more of him that we may never see on a consistent basis unfortunately.
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Same here. I thought Rooney on the ball more was the best for us. But I don't anymore. He messes up a lot of moves for us down to poor touches, lack of ability in tight spaces and inconsistent passes. I want to see players with more technical ability do all the playmaking and Rooney can stick to scoring goals.

I used to believe Rooney could be the best in the world one day. Of course i didn't account for messi and Ronaldo. But even removing Messi and Ronaldo, I'm not sure he's technically good enough to be as good as I thought he could. When you look at other top strikers like Villa, who has a much better scoring record for club and country, he'd technically always superb. No elephant touches etc.

He's a quality player. But I do think many overrated him here and ignore his weaknesses.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Same here. I thought Rooney on the ball more was the best for us. But I don't anymore. He messes up a lot of moves for us down to poor touches, lack of ability in tight spaces and inconsistent passes. I want to see players with more technical ability do all the playmaking and Rooney can stick to scoring goals.

I used to believe Rooney could be the best in the world one day. Of course i didn't account for messi and Ronaldo. But even removing Messi and Ronaldo, I'm not sure he's technically good enough to be as good as I thought he could. When you look at other top strikers like Villa, who has a much better scoring record for club and country, he'd technically always superb. No elephant touches etc.

He's a quality player. But I do think many overrated him here and ignore his weaknesses.
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I'm starting to agree with that now. He's too frustrating as someone controlling games. One week he can be brilliant, but the next week he'll then have a nightmare in that respect.

I didn't ever think he would be the best in the world, although I did think he could be one of the very best and the best striker in the world undoubtedly. He's up there, but probably not the very best.

It all takes me back to my argument earlier really. He's a quality striker, but not a tier above players like Van Persie, Ibrahimovic etc. It's ridiculous to suggest that he is, and doing so is massively overrating him.
 
Is Rooney good enough to be the best player for Manchester United????? I think not!!
 
Homeomorphic said:
Where did you get that stat from? Wikipedia says:

Messi: 26
Ronaldo: 20
Raul: 18
Sheva: 18
Inzaghi: 16
Henry: 12
Morientes: 9
Del Piero: 9
RvN: 6

Where is Rooney? :confused:

Nevermind, you said "over the last 6 seasons". But if the above list is correct, he should be below 6 goals. Which isn't much better than Ibra's record.
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Rooney's got 12 in the knockout stages by my count.. so that list is way off.

Edit: Actually it's 14.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
he's a quality player. But I do think many overrated him here and ignore his weaknesses.
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I've said this for a few seasons now. Rooneys not consistient enough to play in the hole. When he's in form, he's terrific in that position, but the issue is that Rooneys form is erratic and when he plays badly the attack stalls.

It's a different matter when he's leading the line. His goal scoring is impressive and even when he's playing poorly he still scores.
 
Cheesy said:
I'm starting to agree with that now. He's too frustrating as someone controlling games. One week he can be brilliant, but the next week he'll then have a nightmare in that respect.

I didn't ever think he would be the best in the world, although I did think he could be one of the very best and the best striker in the world undoubtedly. He's up there, but probably not the very best.

It all takes me back to my argument earlier really. He's a quality striker, but not a tier above players like Van Persie, Ibrahimovic etc. It's ridiculous to suggest that he is, and doing so is massively overrating him.
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Yeah, he's definitely not a tier above but definitely not below either. Just because he had a poor 2 games doesn't make him shite either. Van Persie was awful in the Euro's. Like I said before, Rooney, Ibra, Aguero and RVP are a level above every other striker out there. Aguero's probably got the most potential out of all of them and will become better but currently they are all about the same.
 
At United, Rooney has got an excellent set of passers including Scholes, Carrick, Valencia, Nani and others who create chances and get him in good positions to score. In that sense, he is a good finisher and when on form can be deadly. However, he does not have enough technique to be as creative as a Pirlo or a Scholes and he cannot dribble and beat his man anymore.

In a team like England where he needs to constantly drop deep and is tempted to actually create something as opposed to United where he can rely on one of the players mentioned above, his weaknesses are more apparent and he seems to be an ordinary player.
 
Homeomorphic said:
Where did you get that stat from? Wikipedia says:

Messi: 26
Ronaldo: 20
Raul: 18
Sheva: 18
Inzaghi: 16
Henry: 12
Morientes: 9
Del Piero: 9
RvN: 6

Where is Rooney? :confused:

Nevermind, you said "over the last 6 seasons". But if the above list is correct, he should be below 6 goals. Which isn't much better than Ibra's record.
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You most obviously don't watch United regularly if you think that list is anything to go by. Or rather Rooney's omission
 
Homeomorphic said:
Where did you get that stat from? Wikipedia says:

Messi: 26
Ronaldo: 20
Raul: 18
Sheva: 18
Inzaghi: 16
Henry: 12
Morientes: 9
Del Piero: 9
RvN: 6

Where is Rooney? :confused:

Nevermind, you said "over the last 6 seasons". But if the above list is correct, he should be below 6 goals. Which isn't much better than Ibra's record.
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:lol:
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah, he's definitely not a tier above but definitely not below either. Just because he had a poor 2 games doesn't make him shite either. Van Persie was awful in the Euro's. Like I said before, Rooney, Ibra, Aguero and RVP are a level above every other striker out there. Aguero's probably got the most potential out of all of them and will become better but currently they are all about the same.
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I would fully agree with you on that, and I'm certainly not trying to argue that he is shite at all. Not at all.
 
Cheesy said:
It's just so frustrating that he can be like that for us sometimes. All players go off form at times, however his low level seems to be woefully worse than a lot of players are. I'm just hoping that we don't see the likes of his performance tonight for us at all next season, and that he can gradually weed that bottom level out of his game.
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I honestly no longer think its a "low level" thing anymore; its gone on for too long. He's just not the same footballer he once was, he's lost a bit. He's still a very good player, he's just not as world class as he once threatened he'd be.
 
EB100 said:
I honestly no longer think its a "low level" thing anymore; its gone on for too long. He's just not the same footballer he once was, he's lost a bit. He's still a very good player, he's just not as world class as he once threatened he'd be.
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I can understand where you're coming from. I just think you were always a bit over the top when you first made your point. You actually make some decent points though and quite a few of us were probably a bit too harsh on you.
 
It's sad to see 2004 Rooney compared with 2012 and hard to admit he hasn't been as special as he looked to be.

Still, impressive return it has to be said.
 
Its such a shame that he has lost the ability he had when he was 18, and could not apply what he has now to that athleticism.

He finally has the mental game down, but his agility and mobility is not a touch on what it was when he was younger. He really struggles to beat a man, it really is quite amazing.

If only he still had that bit of pace / excitement in his game he could be 1 of the best in the world, but i think the injuries have hampered him majorly.

He is like torres without the loss of confidence on certain days. Hope he can have a real rest now and prepare for the season coming.
 
Snow said:
What a stupid thing to say. They've scored the same amount of goals in Europe but other than that Zlatan has been the better goalscorer.
It's not at all a ludicrous comparison. Both players have mostly been the focal point in attack but they've also been 2nd fiddle to a better player sometime in their careers. Both players are consistent goalscorers and both players help their team mates out with assists. Statistically they are very similar players.
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Zlatan is considered a big game bottler because he's done absolutely nothing of note in the Champions League. Rooney, on the other hand, is the third most consistent goalscorer in the big European matches after the two best players in the world. Any comparison between them when it comes to big matches is utterly absurd.
 
Werewolf said:
At United, Rooney has got an excellent set of passers including Scholes, Carrick, Valencia, Nani and others who create chances and get him in good positions to score. In that sense, he is a good finisher and when on form can be deadly. However, he does not have enough technique to be as creative as a Pirlo or a Scholes and he cannot dribble and beat his man anymore.

In a team like England where he needs to constantly drop deep and is tempted to actually create something as opposed to United where he can rely on one of the players mentioned above, his weaknesses are more apparent and he seems to be an ordinary player.
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This. I'm actually glad we have Kagawa coming in giving us another option in terms of playing in the hole.
 
Chabon said:
Comparing the two is absolutely insane. Rooney's one of the top few goalscorers in the knockout stages of the Champions League over the last six seasons, I think he comes third after the obvious two. Ibra on the other hand has scored exactly three goals at that stage in his entire career. It's a fecking ludicrous comparison, and a massive insult to Rooney.
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The thing with Rooney is that it is rare that a defeat in a big game doesn't come when he has had an off day. I can think of very few big matches where the team he was playing on (United or England) have lost and you could say Rooney had a good game, despite the loss. (I'm thinking of the 2011 CL final, and I struggle for other examples).

Snow said:
What a stupid thing to say. They've scored the same amount of goals in Europe but other than that Zlatan has been the better goalscorer.
It's not at all a ludicrous comparison. Both players have mostly been the focal point in attack but they've also been 2nd fiddle to a better player sometime in their careers. Both players are consistent goalscorers and both players help their team mates out with assists. Statistically they are very similar players.
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Cheers Snow... I think you got where I was going.

Again... both very good footballers, many goals and winners medals between them (I believe this is the first season in 6-7 years that Ibra has not won the league he plays in)... but at the same time, to me, there is just something lacking with the both of them, that has prevented them from becoming more than they are, for fulfilling the potential that each has had in spades throughout their careers.
 
If Welbeck scores that chance Rooney would have been a genius.

Rooney is a great player in an embarrassingly average England side.

You think Rooney can take long balls off his chest all game, go through 4 Italian defenders and score? feck off.
 
Speaking as a non-involved Irish fan i thought that rooney was england's most creative player on the day. The only time England created any good moves was when rooney dropped deep and started passing the ball. As for Snow's comment that he gave away more ball than anyone else that is absolutely nonsense. Between them Milner and Johnson gave away 90% of the balls on the left hand side.
 
rumac said:
Speaking as a non-involved Irish fan i thought that rooney was england's most creative player on the day. The only time England created any good moves was when rooney dropped deep and started passing the ball. As for Snow's comment that he gave away more ball than anyone else that is absolutely nonsense. Between them Milner and Johnson gave away 90% of the balls on the left hand side.
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Thank you.

Gotta love throwing our team's talisman under the bus while playing for an incredibly shite English team who deploy tactics like Stoke, Sunderland, or Fulham.
 
Because Rooney's never been periodically rubbish for us, ever.

Rooney showed flashes of class in certain aspects of his play, but he got caught in possession a lot, put in a few terrible crosses, and rushed first time passes that went straight to their defenders. This has nothing to do with how, admittedly, rubbish most of his team mates are.
 
Chabon said:
Zlatan is considered a big game bottler because he's done absolutely nothing of note in the Champions League. Rooney, on the other hand, is the third most consistent goalscorer in the big European matches after the two best players in the world. Any comparison between them when it comes to big matches is utterly absurd.
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Considered by who? 3 guys and a hivemind of people who don't watch him? If you watch Zlatan consistently you'll recognize his talents. He's a great player and by no means a bottler.

How many managers do you think he's played under? He wasn't at Milan when Ancelotti was there. He wasn't at Inter where Mourinho was there. When he joined Barca it was the season that Messi moved centrally. We all know how that worked out in the end but he still scored goals.
Against Arsenal last season he was the best player for Milan by far. In the group stages he gave Barcelona a hard time.

Like I said, their goal scoring record is really similar. If you want to provide goal scoring stats in the knock out stages then provide the number of games they've played as well. Rooney's been in 3 finals. That's 21 games already. He's probably played as many knock out games as he has group games. That's most certainly not the case for Zlatan.
 
rumac said:
Speaking as a non-involved Irish fan i thought that rooney was england's most creative player on the day. The only time England created any good moves was when rooney dropped deep and started passing the ball. As for Snow's comment that he gave away more ball than anyone else that is absolutely nonsense. Between them Milner and Johnson gave away 90% of the balls on the left hand side.
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If you read my comment again you'll see that I specifically refer to him being dispossessed. Not quite the same as giving the ball away.

Him being the most creative player on the day is hardly a compliment. England had two chances really. He created neither. He was poor today. We seen him being outnumbered before but he usually holds the ball well when he is and gets himself out of tight situations. In this game he didn't do that well.
 
I just cannot rid the impression i initially had of him when he was much younger, full of pace, dribbling skills as well as incredible technique, first touch and vision to split defences on a regular basis. Right now, he's a liability when he plays there, against the highest level of opponents. It sounds weird, but kinda gives me a feeling of his initial immense promise not materialising into the exciting player i first thought he would. Of course, that being said, he is still a very good but extremely overrated player. In fact, i dare say Kagawa was brought in, to play the role Rooney first excel in his formation years with us. That way, we can stick him out where he is at his biggest strength, ie finishing.
 
Regardless of whether one thinks he's world class, or overrated, the White Pele thing - I have to admit - is a bit cringey.
 
Snow said:
Him being the most creative player on the day is hardly a compliment. England had two chances really. He created neither. He was poor today. We seen him being outnumbered before but he usually holds the ball well when he is and gets himself out of tight situations. In this game he didn't do that well.
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Didn't his link up with Welbeck create the chance where Danny spooned it over the ba? Rooney was poor though but despite the Joe Hart to Andy Carroll combination in the second half, Rooney stilled looked like the only person who could do something positive going forward. The problem was he had to do it all by himself as Walcott was non-existant, Young dire and Carroll spend half the time passing to the Italiajns defenders.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
If Welbeck scores that chance Rooney would have been a genius.

Rooney is a great player in an embarrassingly average England side.

You think Rooney can take long balls off his chest all game, go through 4 Italian defenders and score? feck off.
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Exactly. The supply into him and Welbeck was very poor.

Apart from messi and Ronaldo(who have had their own international poor showings) is their any player out their they could have done much better than Rooney given the role he was asked to do last night?

Look at Argentinas front players. All quality. But what did they do against germany in the last world cup with limited supply?
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
If Welbeck scores that chance Rooney would have been a genius.

Rooney is a great player in an embarrassingly average England side.

You think Rooney can take long balls off his chest all game, go through 4 Italian defenders and score? feck off.
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No. He would have done one good thing in an otherwise terrible performance. Noone's expecting him to do all those things. He isn't even capable of that. People are just pointing out that he was poor rather than calling him a poor player.

RedDevilCanuck said:
Thank you.

Gotta love throwing our team's talisman under the bus while playing for an incredibly shite English team who deploy tactics like Stoke, Sunderland, or Fulham.
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You stick up for "our talisman" while the rest of us just give our genuine opinions. He was very poor. It doesn't have any bearing on him as a player but it is true nonetheless.
 
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