Television Was the ending to Lost really THAT bad? | Yes
- Thread starter Mr Pigeon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
I mean, you're right there, GoT got pretty much everyone involved in the same way Lost did. Lot's of people who wouldn't typically watch the genre but did so anyways just to be part of the buzz. I guess that was the only one? Unless there's loads I'm not thinking of and that claim was utter shite.
It was no Sopranos ending but it was decent enough.
Looking back, and knowing how it ended, I think the writers would have done something else with ol' smoky. I bought into the 'good vs evil' and the universality of the island. The personification of evil could maybe have been done better.
I still think it's a brilliant show. For me there's only Breaking Bad above it, and possibly Better Call Saul (and if you want evidence of how a great show can not stick a landing and thus ruin the viewing experience, then GoT is your example).
I don't remember every detail of the show well, but at the time my thinking was that "The Smoke Monster" S6 plotline had more obvious plot holes and logical issues than anything else we'd seen.
That's how I see it, Lost was a phenomenon and then GoT took it to the next level.
Both also had amazingly shit final seasons
But for me Lost had a better final episode
Never watched the show even once so i can only say what i've heard but wasn't the show basically something that encouraged fans to theory craft and speculate for years before wrapping it up with an ending that few people liked? Correct me if i'm wrong it's only what i've heard. I always find that approach is dangerous ground for writers unless they obviously have a very clear vision from the start.
With GoT i and a lot of other people got very invested in predicting what would happen and picking up on supposed clues/hints and then...well, season 8 happened and i've never been able to watch it again 
With GoT i and a lot of other people got very invested in predicting what would happen and picking up on supposed clues/hints and then...well, season 8 happened and i've never been able to watch it again
The ending of LOST had a good-mixed reception when it came out. The people who didn't like it have been very loud and created the false impression that the ending is widely disliked, but it's just not true. The rating on IMDB for the finale (averaged proportionally from Pts 1 and 2) is 8.4. This would put it in the middle of all episodes (highest rated are 9.7, lowest rated are 7.1). I would note, though, that it is the lowest ranked finale (8 of the top 10 ranked episodes are parts of a season finale).
GoT and LOST are quite different in how they work. In GoT, the plot and the characters are one and the same. The story is mostly about the interaction between different characters and the groups or institutions they belong to. The White Walker stuff is the more "plotty" part, but it takes up very little screentime. In LOST, there is more separation. There is a "plot" involving mysteries, lore, etc. that the audience can speculate on, and there are characters, who are mostly randos and bystanders that are trying to survive.
I think this is why the reception to both finales was quite different. There is less hatred of LOST finale because you can separate plot and characters. Few people object to what happens to the characters. Most of the people who dislike the ending didn't care about what happened to the characters, they don't like the finale because they wanted more/better focus on the plot/mystery.
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The ending maybe wasn't the worst ever but the show had become an unwatchable shit-fest long before then.
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The Moth - S1 E7
Charlie centric episode. Main storyline is Charlie begins experiencing withdrawal symptoms, and Locke takes the role as his sensei almost. We then delve into Charlie's back story and realise he was quite a pious man, who's older brother and success with the band led him to becoming a drug user and good for nothing screwabout. There's a nice allegory which Locke uses where the episode gets its name from - moth's cocoon strengthens the moth for life on the outside. Like most of the cast, it's an engaging backstory, and helps us get to the essence of the character quicker.
The other storyline is Sawyer, Kate and Sayid head into the jungle to triangulate the signal to find the distress signal...but mysteriously, just as they're about to be successful, someone comes behind Sayid and knocks him out. And we don't know who did it.......
Locke is fairly enigmatic from the start.
Confidence Man - S1 E8
Sawyer episode, and for me the best one of the series so far. It's quite a dark episode, and you see how fine the line is for these survivors to go from 'civil' to 'savage'. It doesn't take much for Sayid and Jack to tie Sawyer up in the jungle and begin torturing him. In this episode, he gets punched twice by Jack, knocked out by a pole by Sayid, tortured under his fingernails by Sayid, punched and attacked by Sayid, stabbed in the bicep by Sayid, and punched by Kate .
And I have to say, the actor here, Josh Holloway, really plays his part to perfection. He's a deeply complex and difficult character, who wants to be 'good' but can't let himself be good because of what's happened in his life. The storyline is centred on Shannon having asthma attacks, and everything thinks Sawyer is hording the inhalers. He's just accused from the off, and he doesn't deny this or confirm it either. So they get themselves in a frenzy. He says he will give the inhalers if Kate kisses him and after he gets kissed he tells them he doesn't have it. It's all so well plotted out.
The backstory touches on his life as a conman and how he became one - by chasing 'Sawyer' - the man who seduced his mum leading his dad to a murder-suicide...it's very tragic.
And as a general note - it's so refreshing to see actual craft, storylines, and character driven stories. The characters have such deep, complex stories, and we see how it impacts them on the island. There's actual character arcs, which you, as a viewer, are emotionally invested in. You don't get this level of craft and detail in modern day TV series. Maybe it's the MCU-culture, or more specifically, the on demand culture, where they have 10ish episodes to get it right and if not they're cancelled. I wonder how long would Lost last if it was made now - the first season is 24 episodes long. But although it may be long, it's a riveting watch. We're given glimpses of Sayid's previous life, and now I can't wait to see what he's done that makes him the way he is. It's just great storytelling, and this is without touching on what the actual island is.
Edit: Added some clips.
Charlie centric episode. Main storyline is Charlie begins experiencing withdrawal symptoms, and Locke takes the role as his sensei almost. We then delve into Charlie's back story and realise he was quite a pious man, who's older brother and success with the band led him to becoming a drug user and good for nothing screwabout. There's a nice allegory which Locke uses where the episode gets its name from - moth's cocoon strengthens the moth for life on the outside. Like most of the cast, it's an engaging backstory, and helps us get to the essence of the character quicker.
The other storyline is Sawyer, Kate and Sayid head into the jungle to triangulate the signal to find the distress signal...but mysteriously, just as they're about to be successful, someone comes behind Sayid and knocks him out. And we don't know who did it.......
Locke is fairly enigmatic from the start.
Confidence Man - S1 E8
Sawyer episode, and for me the best one of the series so far. It's quite a dark episode, and you see how fine the line is for these survivors to go from 'civil' to 'savage'. It doesn't take much for Sayid and Jack to tie Sawyer up in the jungle and begin torturing him. In this episode, he gets punched twice by Jack, knocked out by a pole by Sayid, tortured under his fingernails by Sayid, punched and attacked by Sayid, stabbed in the bicep by Sayid, and punched by Kate
.And I have to say, the actor here, Josh Holloway, really plays his part to perfection. He's a deeply complex and difficult character, who wants to be 'good' but can't let himself be good because of what's happened in his life. The storyline is centred on Shannon having asthma attacks, and everything thinks Sawyer is hording the inhalers. He's just accused from the off, and he doesn't deny this or confirm it either. So they get themselves in a frenzy. He says he will give the inhalers if Kate kisses him
and after he gets kissed he tells them he doesn't have it. It's all so well plotted out.The backstory touches on his life as a conman and how he became one - by chasing 'Sawyer' - the man who seduced his mum leading his dad to a murder-suicide...it's very tragic.
And as a general note - it's so refreshing to see actual craft, storylines, and character driven stories. The characters have such deep, complex stories, and we see how it impacts them on the island. There's actual character arcs, which you, as a viewer, are emotionally invested in. You don't get this level of craft and detail in modern day TV series. Maybe it's the MCU-culture, or more specifically, the on demand culture, where they have 10ish episodes to get it right and if not they're cancelled. I wonder how long would Lost last if it was made now - the first season is 24 episodes long. But although it may be long, it's a riveting watch. We're given glimpses of Sayid's previous life, and now I can't wait to see what he's done that makes him the way he is. It's just great storytelling, and this is without touching on what the actual island is.
Edit: Added some clips.
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Agreed. I haven't rewatched it since it originally aired, but my memory of the whole last season is that it was mediocre at best, and the "temple" storyline was just awful.
It’s hands down the best character development series in TV history for me, nothing else comes close.
It’s also why despite the final season being a let down overall, the final episode might be favourite piece of TV. Even today I can’t watch it without bawling my eyes out.
Cheers for the great episode recaps, great read.
Yea, deffo agree. I'd still have BB and BCS edging it but the show was easier to chart its arcs with a smaller cast list. Walter White is probably the best character on TV I've seen.
I remember enjoying the final season, so will see how I feel on the rewatch, but I also remember the first few seasons of Lost being 10/10s. I think there was a writers strike at the time which curtailed one season early, and when it came back it had dipped in quality a bit.
And thanks! I was wondering if typing a recap was worth it, but it seems with each post there's some chatter about the show, so I'll keep it going for now.
I rewatched it earlier this year (I think it was this year) and yeah, the temple stuff just didnt make sense and ruined it. I actually enjoyed the previous season more than I remembered
The episode with Penny (fit) and Desmond with his flashbacks was one of the best episodes of any TV shows that I've ever watched...think the episode was called The Constant
Juliet is so hot.
Let’s be honest, pretty much every woman on that show is fit.
Solitary S1 E9
Sayid centric episode. After leaving the camp as he scared himself with his torture techniques, Sayid heads off into the jungle and finds a wire. He follows it and is eventually caught in the middle of the jungle by an unknown assailant that turns out to be......the French woman on the recording! Danielle Rousseau! She's clearly lost her marbles, and is a bit horny but it's a big big episode in a few ways. We get the first mention of 'The Others', which she thinks Sayid is a part of. She also mentions how one by one, the people she travelled with became 'Lost' and she had to kill them. The episode ends with Sayid in the jungle hearing these same whispers and voices. She also plainly denies anything about a monster, so her grip on reality is tenuous. And we finally hear about Alex, her child (who appears in a later season). Sayid and Danielle really do play their parts to perfection - great casting choices.
As for the flashbacks, it's another dark-ish one, where we join Sayid in his previous life with the Republican Guard in Iraq where he tortures freedom fighters/terrorists. One of the people captured is his childhood sweetheart, Nadia. Eventually his superior officer gives the order to kill her and he can't bring himself to do it, instead killing his superior officer, wounding himself to make it look like an escaped prisoner and letting her go. He does reveal though in the main episode that he's the reason she's dead.
On the main island, the cave-lot start playing golf, and there's a mini redemption arc for Sawyer as he tries to reintegrate himself into the group. We also see a big big thing - the first appearance of Ethan Rom (i.e. anagram for Other Man). He's actually a mole sent by the Others to infiltrate the plane crash survivors, but we won't know that for a few episodes.
So another good episode - a lot of world building now. We have definite confirmation that they plane crash survivors aren't alone, we found the French woman, and she herself alluded to there being others, but we're not sure if she's just lost the plot or not. There's also the big thing in what I put a spoiler for.
Sayid centric episode. After leaving the camp as he scared himself with his torture techniques, Sayid heads off into the jungle and finds a wire. He follows it and is eventually caught in the middle of the jungle by an unknown assailant that turns out to be......the French woman on the recording! Danielle Rousseau! She's clearly lost her marbles, and is a bit horny but it's a big big episode in a few ways. We get the first mention of 'The Others', which she thinks Sayid is a part of. She also mentions how one by one, the people she travelled with became 'Lost' and she had to kill them. The episode ends with Sayid in the jungle hearing these same whispers and voices. She also plainly denies anything about a monster, so her grip on reality is tenuous. And we finally hear about Alex, her child (who appears in a later season). Sayid and Danielle really do play their parts to perfection - great casting choices.
As for the flashbacks, it's another dark-ish one, where we join Sayid in his previous life with the Republican Guard in Iraq where he tortures freedom fighters/terrorists. One of the people captured is his childhood sweetheart, Nadia. Eventually his superior officer gives the order to kill her and he can't bring himself to do it, instead killing his superior officer, wounding himself to make it look like an escaped prisoner and letting her go. He does reveal though in the main episode that he's the reason she's dead.
On the main island, the cave-lot start playing golf, and there's a mini redemption arc for Sawyer as he tries to reintegrate himself into the group. We also see a big big thing - the first appearance of Ethan Rom (i.e. anagram for Other Man). He's actually a mole sent by the Others to infiltrate the plane crash survivors, but we won't know that for a few episodes.
So another good episode - a lot of world building now. We have definite confirmation that they plane crash survivors aren't alone, we found the French woman, and she herself alluded to there being others, but we're not sure if she's just lost the plot or not. There's also the big thing in what I put a spoiler for.
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I was that into this show that i ordered the season 2 DVD boxset from America, before it had aired in the UK, and changed the region on my dads DVD player in order to be able to watch it. I was watching adverts looking for easter eggs, listening for hidden meanings to "See a shining star and put it in your pocket, save it for a rainy day" after it was a part of some Dharma/island game online. It was mental.
I loved the show, but by the final 2 seasons i was just pissed off that they were completely ignoring so much stuff, like the relevance of the numbers. To this day still I don't fecking understand what supposedly happened when/if they died and what alternative reality shit happened, or didn't happen.
I loved the show, but by the final 2 seasons i was just pissed off that they were completely ignoring so much stuff, like the relevance of the numbers. To this day still I don't fecking understand what supposedly happened when/if they died and what alternative reality shit happened, or didn't happen.
I did the same with the DVDs.
the last season flash sideways showed a life they lived in the afterlife. They were all moving onto their version of their heaven/hell as one as they were all lost (hence the numbers) and found togetherness on the island.
Yup. I'll never understand how people don't get this - it's even spelled out directly to Jack/the viewers by Christian Shephard in the Finale.
Raised by Another S1 E10
Claire centric episode, and she has a (relatively) normal backstory. She becomes pregnant with her boyfriend who then leaves her shortly thereafter. For some reason she's really into psychics, who tells her she has to raise the baby alone and not give the baby up for adoption. She tries giving it up for adoption (whilst in utero) but she has a change of heart. The psychic then tells her to take a flight to LA where he knows a good couple and pays her to take the flight...the flight is obviously Oceanic 815.
The world building is also picking up pace now. As Hurley discovers there is someone amongst them who wasn't part of the flight which was Ethan Rom aka Other Man from the Others (also don't know why I'm spoilering this considering it's almost 20 years old, but hey ho.. The actor of Ethan (William Mapother) is first cousins with Tom Cruise. He's got a proper villainous face as well (video isn't the best quality):
The ending coincides with Sayid rejoining the gang in the caves, and confirming he's met the French woman and that there's others on the Island.
These first few episodes has shown how enigmatic Locke is. Every answer he gives is almost a riddle or philosophical - here's his answer to Hurley doing the census:
So, yes the show is picking up pace, and I think we're going to finish our first half of the show with Ethan playing the main antagonist.
Claire centric episode, and she has a (relatively) normal backstory. She becomes pregnant with her boyfriend who then leaves her shortly thereafter. For some reason she's really into psychics, who tells her she has to raise the baby alone and not give the baby up for adoption. She tries giving it up for adoption (whilst in utero) but she has a change of heart. The psychic then tells her to take a flight to LA where he knows a good couple and pays her to take the flight...the flight is obviously Oceanic 815.
The world building is also picking up pace now. As Hurley discovers there is someone amongst them who wasn't part of the flight which was Ethan Rom aka Other Man from the Others (also don't know why I'm spoilering this considering it's almost 20 years old, but hey ho.. The actor of Ethan (William Mapother) is first cousins with Tom Cruise. He's got a proper villainous face as well (video isn't the best quality):
The ending coincides with Sayid rejoining the gang in the caves, and confirming he's met the French woman and that there's others on the Island.
These first few episodes has shown how enigmatic Locke is. Every answer he gives is almost a riddle or philosophical - here's his answer to Hurley doing the census:
So, yes the show is picking up pace, and I think we're going to finish our first half of the show with Ethan playing the main antagonist.
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NIce stuff @The Corinthian
Im actually interested to see your posts for the latter seasons.
S1 for me was excellent, at the time and also on the rewatch.
s2 was better than I remembered (I think i blurred 2 and 3 together. and 3 was better on second viewing with a binge compared to the first time for me.
Im actually interested to see your posts for the latter seasons.
S1 for me was excellent, at the time and also on the rewatch.
s2 was better than I remembered (I think i blurred 2 and 3 together. and 3 was better on second viewing with a binge compared to the first time for me.
Yea, Season 1 is great so far. The quality has really improved over the last few eps as well. It's such a multi-layered show, primarily driven by the story writing and genuinely great actors. You don't get that with shows nowadays!
and thanks! Yes, if I still have the energy and people are enjoying reading my musings, I'll do a write up + thoughts for each episode till the end.
Im enjoying, especially the use of videos here and there.
I think this was a phenom show because of a number of factors:
-Big cast with their own stories
-Unpredictable (mystery behind the show)
-Characters actions driving the story rather than characters doing stuff for story sake (eg doing something stupid because the story needs them in place A or B)
-Weekly episode release.
Somebody mentioned it before but GoT was this but on Steroids in terms of how it blew up and had everybody talking (and had all of the above at its peak).
I cant see anything being as big as Lost and GoT if they are released in one go (binge watching) as it doesnt allow for the same type of discussion.
Also you would think a big cast is needed (as it adds to the unpredictable nature / lead character is always safe if its one main character and supporting characters). And mysteries always leads to discussions (GoT with Jon Snows parents, who will take the Iron throne, etc). Here in Lost, there are many.
I want to use this, everything you just said, for my answer as well. It was shite.
They were dead the entire time! 6 seasons and hundreds of hours wasted on the episodes and theories for nothing!
I agree with you. Especially on the bolded - so refreshing to see a character driven story. I think GoT got it right in the earlier seasons as it had that character driven nature about it, but lost its way when it deviated from the books.
The other thing is - Lost was one of the first shows (if not, the first) to kill off its main cast periodically through the show. There's probably a list of 3-4 you can hazard a guess won't ever killed off, but take Charlie for instance, who was killed off in S3. He was one of the recognisable stars (coming off LotR), and was a fairly central figure, especially in season 1. Jack, Kate and he were the stars of the pilot. GoT dialled it up a notch of course ('on steroids' is a good way of phrasing it).
The main thing as well is Lost really nailed their cliffhangers, and they weren't cliffhangers for the sake of being cliffhangers. The ending for S1 is brilliant and added so much depth to the plot and importance to the narrative as a whole. The viewer isn't really left short changed with the narrative arcs.
There probably is something in terms of viewership when a series is released on a weekly basis vs on demand on Netflix or Prime etc. But I always think - if Lost was being made today, would they be allowed to have a 24 episode first season? Netflix and the likes cap them at around the 10-13 mark and gauge reactions based on that, it seems.
Jack was supposed to be killed off in the pilot!
On my honeymoon I went to Hawaii and saw all the set pieces of Lost. I love your posts!
LOST’s m.o. was the same as a sex phoneline worker: just keep them on the line. Distract from one plot point by introducing 3 new plot points. Have something crazy happen that isn’t explained all season (if ever). Rinse and repeat. It was the ultimate chasing-the-dragon experience. You could write a thick book listing all of the things they never adequately explained. And they were doing that bait-and-switch shit right up to the bitter end.
The cliffhangers were awesome, the sudden reveals of insane new details were glorious. But they never had a clear narrative, they fumbled along blindly, and ultimately were undone by their total inability to write a coherent story.
No they were not and I roll my eyes every single time someone has this reaction to the ending of Lost. I had my problems with some of the unresolved mysteries from the show but I actually found the emotional pay-off of the finale really satisfying.
they answered every question!
I never knew that (I just read up on it and they had Michael Keaton pencilled in to play the 'Jack' role).
And wow! You actually got to view all the places - I'm jealous.
There was a clear arc and re-watching S1 again, they had clear designs for Locke and Jack from the start, so it did make sense to me. I do think they elongated the narrative given the runaway success of the show, but overall it worked, and they answered all the main questions. Which ones do you think they didn't answer?
Will never understand the love for Locke. A selfish wanker who never did anything that wasn't for personal gain.
He killed Boone, destroyed their radio communication, blew up the sub and annihilated the hatch. First they had to push the button because he wanted it. When he didn't want it anymore, no one else could push that button either (even though they had their reasons to keep pushing it just like he previously had).
This cnut had more blood on his hands than anyone else from that plane (even Michael). He's no better than his conman fraudster murdering father.
He killed Boone, destroyed their radio communication, blew up the sub and annihilated the hatch. First they had to push the button because he wanted it. When he didn't want it anymore, no one else could push that button either (even though they had their reasons to keep pushing it just like he previously had).
This cnut had more blood on his hands than anyone else from that plane (even Michael). He's no better than his conman fraudster murdering father.
Tidbit I forgot to include from my last episode write up - E10 was the first episode that had the opening similar to the Pilot in that it starts with the main character's eye opening (in this case Claire).
All the Best Cowboys have Daddy Issues S1 E11
Jack centric episode. It's a banger - Ethan has kidnapped Charlie and Claire, Jack blames himself and is a bit manic. They enlist the help of Locke to help track them down (Jack, Kate, Boone and Locke are the search party, and they eventually break off with Jack and Kate going one way and Boone and Locke going another). The backstory is centred on how Jack's dad (Christian Shepherd - great name considering his role) lost his licence in operating whilst drunk, and it was Jack's testimony that swayed it. We don't really learn a great deal about Jack other than his boy scout nature (which we knew anyway). He's also racked with guilt about Claire's abduction as he didn't believe that someone was after her last episode. This is a real humdinger of an episode, and a lot to unpack.
Firstly, we see the first tensions in the show between Jack and Locke - a common theme throughout the show of course, but this is the first real inklings of it.
Then there's the beat down of Jack by Ethan as he's chasing him through the jungle:
But the crowning achievement of this episode lies in the absolute heart wrenching scene of when Jack and Kate find Charlie's hanging limp body in the jungle. I know the outcome of this scene, and it still had an effect on me. It's masterful acting by Jack and Kate (and Charlie), and the scene is a real difficult one to watch. We also see the depths Ethan (and subsequently the Others) will go to to get what they want.
And that's not all - there's a scene with Boone and Locke right at the end that is probably the most significant event of the series so far...
There's some other nice moments that I picked up on that could be some foreshadowing - Walt plays backgammon with Hurley and always gets the roll he wants. It either speaks to Walt's 'powers', or Hurley's unluckyness which is another theme throughout the show. Sawyer continues his redemption arc and in someways buries the hatchet he has with Sayid, and has a nice interaction with Walt too. Locke also is fairly dismissive of Michael's attempts to help which is interesting, but maybe not that significant.
So yes, all in all, a big episode in terms of the rest of the show. And I think we're quickly approaching the first mini-arc conclusion.
All the Best Cowboys have Daddy Issues S1 E11
Jack centric episode. It's a banger - Ethan has kidnapped Charlie and Claire, Jack blames himself and is a bit manic. They enlist the help of Locke to help track them down (Jack, Kate, Boone and Locke are the search party, and they eventually break off with Jack and Kate going one way and Boone and Locke going another). The backstory is centred on how Jack's dad (Christian Shepherd - great name considering his role) lost his licence in operating whilst drunk, and it was Jack's testimony that swayed it. We don't really learn a great deal about Jack other than his boy scout nature (which we knew anyway). He's also racked with guilt about Claire's abduction as he didn't believe that someone was after her last episode. This is a real humdinger of an episode, and a lot to unpack.
Firstly, we see the first tensions in the show between Jack and Locke - a common theme throughout the show of course, but this is the first real inklings of it.
Then there's the beat down of Jack by Ethan as he's chasing him through the jungle:
But the crowning achievement of this episode lies in the absolute heart wrenching scene of when Jack and Kate find Charlie's hanging limp body in the jungle. I know the outcome of this scene, and it still had an effect on me. It's masterful acting by Jack and Kate (and Charlie), and the scene is a real difficult one to watch. We also see the depths Ethan (and subsequently the Others) will go to to get what they want.
And that's not all - there's a scene with Boone and Locke right at the end that is probably the most significant event of the series so far...
There's some other nice moments that I picked up on that could be some foreshadowing - Walt plays backgammon with Hurley and always gets the roll he wants. It either speaks to Walt's 'powers', or Hurley's unluckyness which is another theme throughout the show. Sawyer continues his redemption arc and in someways buries the hatchet he has with Sayid, and has a nice interaction with Walt too. Locke also is fairly dismissive of Michael's attempts to help which is interesting, but maybe not that significant.
So yes, all in all, a big episode in terms of the rest of the show. And I think we're quickly approaching the first mini-arc conclusion.
He's a very well written character - maybe the most tragic character I can remember on TV. His doggedness/one track mind and obsessions reminds me of Captain Ahab from Moby Dick.
Agree 100% this was such a wild ride of an episode with characters people were invested in. It had everything
I present to you, The People vs. the Writers of Lost:I never knew that (I just read up on it and they had Michael Keaton pencilled in to play the 'Jack' role).
And wow! You actually got to view all the places - I'm jealous.
There was a clear arc and re-watching S1 again, they had clear designs for Locke and Jack from the start, so it did make sense to me. I do think they elongated the narrative given the runaway success of the show, but overall it worked, and they answered all the main questions. Which ones do you think they didn't answer?
- How could they move the island? Like, how? Turning an ancient wooden wheel in a stone grotto causes an entire island to teleport randomly through space and time to a new location that no one will ever find... until they find it.
- In whose image was the colossal 4-toed statue? Egyptians just getting wacky?
- So the numbers ultimately were of no significance?
- Sam Toomey and Hurley’s bad luck? Hurley is cursed and everyone he loves dies after he wins the lottery - but then he’s not cursed, forget about it.
- Who was Jacob? He's a regular kid, then immortal, then maybe the smoke monster, then maybe god.
- Kate’s magical horse? The horse from her childhood appears on the island. I think she even feeds it.
- How was Libby taking care of Hurley in the mental ward and then forgot about it (both of them)?
- Whither David Shephard? Jack finds out he has a kid (who is about 15) and not 30 seconds later, he is overcome/brought to tears by his love for a kid he never knew existed?
- Polar bears. [***see below]
- Invisible monster. They have an invisible monster attack the plane in the first episode, then never again. Thereafter, the invisible monster is a smoke monster. They claim it's supposed to be the same monster. Were the smoke VFX not completed in time?
- Walt’s “special” psychic powers are never explained. Then a bunch of other people find out they have psychic powers, but none are the same. But they are supposed to be really important.
- Smokey aka Christian Shephard and his multitude of assumed forms? He's dead, he's not dead. He appears to Jack on the island. He appears on the freighter.
- What is the sickness that infects people who are brought back from the dead in the Temple, but only when the waters do not run clear? And then there's the vaccine -- that doesn't actually work, although sometimes it does.
- Ben Linus breaking into Charles Widmore’s bedroom back in the real world and talking about "...allowing mercenaries to come to the island and kill Alex was 'breaking the rules' and would be punished." What rules? Whose rules? Charles Widmore himself is a McGuffin. Ben flits to and from the island with no problem.
- The supply drops delivered by the Guam branch of Dharma, even though the location of the island is impossible to predict (plus the fact the Guam people didn’t know the people on the island were dead for 20 years)? “feck, these cnuts are going to starve to death and/or die of bacterial infections, what do we do? I know! Mysterious supply drops filled with 1970s Dharma goods!”
- The giant birds who cried “Hurley!” at Hurley? The writers said later it only sounded like the birds said Hurley.
- The Magic Heart of the Island room and its magic cork? This set looked like it was straight out of Sid n Marty Kroft.
- Who is Mother? Why does she kill Claudia and raise Claudia's sons as her own? How did she get to the island? She’s immortal, steals two kids, they became immortal, one became Jacob/the smoke monster, and one became the Man In Black????
- Why do pregnant women die at day 100 of their pregnancies?
- The Man In Black? He's evil? He's a kid? He's the smoke monster? He's the island? He's evil personified?
- Horace Goodspeed’s cabin that flies around the island and objects within move via telekinesis?
- How could Rousseau forget Ben stole her daughter? Why did Rousseau try to steal Claire’s baby?
- Why was Libby in the same mental ward as Hurley? Why did neither remember?
- Richard Malkin (the psychic) warns Claire that only she can raise Aaron, and if the Others raise him it will be an unmitigated disaster. Then they try to kidnap Aaron before they forget about Aaron altogether?
- How did the Looking Glass Station prevent the outside world from hearing Rousseau’s distress call for 16 years?
- Why are some people healed on the island and others are not? You get your legs back, you get your cancer cured, you don’t - sorry.
- How did the Man In Black appear to Christian on the freighter if the MIB can never leave the island? I know! It wasn’t really Christian but the smoke monster in disguise!
- What killed all of the other members of Rousseau’s team? Got them in a week, and it didn’t kill Rousseau with 16 years to achieve the goal?
- How did Dharma make a robotic sentry shark in the 1970s, with Atari technology, that is autonomous and with limitless power, still chugging along 25 years later? Yes the shark has a fecking Dharma logo on its tail.
- Why were the Others unable to give birth on the island?
- What are the Whispers? How do voices of the dead stay on the island? How did Walt become a Whisper?
- How/why is the Island the “source of the light in all of mankind, circulating ‘life, death, and rebirth’”?
- What were Walt’s magical powers? Remember he was key to everything until the actor grew a foot in one year and couldn’t play a 10 year old anymore. Then Walt was only seen at a great distance.
- Why did Hurley not realize until season 4 that he can talk to the dead? "Oh, I didn't think you guys wanted to know."
- How could the Numbers be both two-digit degree settings for the Lighthouse, and the Swan hatch serial number, and the winning lottery numbers? Plus the girls' volleyball team had the shirts in that order. Coincidence!
- How did Ajita flight 316 hear the Numbers on the island if Rousseau had already erased them?
- How did the drug smugglers’ tiny plane take off from Nigeria and crash in the Pacific? Answer: the island moved magically so that when the plane crashed, instead of crashing into the sea it crashed into the island. Or maybe the island was near Nigeria, and then moved to the Pacific after the plane crashed?
- If it’s impossible to find the island or predict where it will be, why does traveling in a submarine get around that problem?
- How was the giant statue destroyed? They say a tidal wave. ("what tidal wave?")
- How did the Black Rock - a slave ship from the 1700s - end up in the middle of the island? This was explained (in interviews) as having been caused by "a tidal wave".
- Egyptian hieroglyphics in the Wheel room? Egyptians. In. The. Pacific. Or maybe they were near Nigeria, too.
- How/why did turning the Wheel at the Orchid cause the person turning it to to skip through time?
- How in feck did Romans discover the island?
- Why was the Wheel frozen in ice on a tropical island?
- How did Sun get pregnant if Jin was sterile? Just like Locke got his legs back, so Jin suddenly was made fertile again. But they don't "explain" it. You have to reason that one yourself.
- What caused Desmond’s psychic flashes?
- The guitar case with the wooden ankh with the survivors’ names written on it? Wtf? The guitar case is the mirror to Charlie's guitar case on the original flight? Now we're concerned with symmetry?
- Hydra Island and Room 23??
- Resetting the time. A meal is made out of this idea that the timer has to be reset every 108 (?) minutes, or else the entire universe is destroyed (or something). The timer has mechanical numbers that flip over, like the old destination numbers at a train station. On the backs of these numbers are hieroglyphics. What? (in NoHo Hank's voice). Little what leads to big what. Then we see on the hatch, when things feck up and the world is almost destroyed, that one of the original researchers has written a whole series of clues and secrets on the blast door of the hatch. It shows the Dharma group's plan, it shows other Dharma stations on the island, and it's all written in something that only shows up in black light. And only shows up when they are in danger of exceeding the 108 limit. So whoever wrote it, exceeded the limit dozens of times to get this secret message written, ostensibly to work against the interests of Dharma, but they are never discovered. You see in a flashback that the person at the controls was guarded by Dharma people with guns. AND THEN the show uses this as a cliffhanger for the season. You see the writing on the hatch for a split second, making everyone screen shot the fecking thing and dissect it at length, waiting for the explanation. This is emblematic of the writers' approach. None of it mattered.
- The "tail" survivors. They ran out of steam and decided that hey, the plane broke in two, so let's start with a whole new bunch of survivors (aka the TAILIES). Neither group saw each other, their fires, ran into each other hunting, footprints, nothing.
- Then they came up with the "Others", a group of adults living on the island in a quasi-military cult. They are bad. They attack both regular LOSTIES and the TAILIES. Then they kidnap people and demand hostages. Then they are revealed to be naturalized Dharma employees (?) I don't actually remember.
- Then they come up with another fecking island.
- Then they come up with a submarine. See? This is how we get to and from the island. Now if everyone will kindly step aboard... never mind. Then they destroy the submarine.
- Then Penny is hearing Desmond's signals through time and is somehow finding the island through hearing the numbers, but then it's "not Penny's boat" as the hobbit dies. The boat the boat the boat is the fecking key. It's going to save them. But it's not Penny, it's Charles Widmore -- Penny's father. Also the head of Dharma. Or not. Maybe Ben was the head of it. Or not. Ben was secretly one of the Others and sent over as a spy. Or not.
Some things were “explained” retroactively, in materials that accompanied the show like books and unofficial guides, or the writers answered things in interviews, or you could infer “explanations” from things like “magic”, “time travel”, “an immortal being able to assume anyone’s form”, “psionic powers”, “the island floats all over the world”, “they were lied to”, “the mystical electromagnetic force willed it”, but they weren’t explained in the show, organically, with any sense. They might as well have said "electromagnetism can make anything happen anywhere at any time." So while some things had an explanation, half the time those explanations were either implausible, ridiculous, or just dumb. It was furious ret-conning for 5 seasons.
This doesn’t touch on things like deciding in season 5 (4?) that Lost was going to suddenly be about a secret, global cabal with Ben as the leader handing out assassination orders to Said, like it was a reboot of “Alias”. JJ Abrams doing an homage to JJ Abrams. It also doesn’t touch on the logic of suddenly thinking having Sawyer and Said as a mismatched buddy cop LAPD detective team was a good idea. Maybe that was one episode. I was so angry with this show when the final season rolled around, that I couldn't think straight.
This show had about 2 seasons of plausible actions, and after that they threw everything at the wall to see what would stick. As actors got fed up and asked to be written out, (Ian Somerhalder, Dominic Monaghan), or bit players came back for more (Ben), the show lost focus and coherence. It was a shaggy dog story, but at the end, even they didn’t understand their own bullshit.
They resorted to time travel, magic powers, and a sentient island that could move anywhere in the world it wanted to, to shore up their logic. The revealing that certain characters were dead the whole time, or were in fact not the characters but the mysterious smoke monster impersonating them, was fecking silly, and lazy. They have all these characters intersecting with other characters in the real world, but never make anything of it. The person who killed Sawyer's parents was Locke's dad? Jack's dad was involved with Dharma? Kate killed her father, but actually it was her stepfather, because she's a bank robber, and... I forget.
They get around their timeline feckups by making characters suddenly immortal without explanation. They do flashbacks, flash forwards, and then at the end of the show, flash "sideways". They send the characters back in time to the island. They send the characters to alternate realities. They resurrect characters. Thye show characters doing things then reveal them to have been dead the whole time. They claim it's purgatory, or something like it. Then they all go to their own versions of heaven? Together? Or not?
An example of this is the polar bears***. “Hey, what would you never expect to see in Hawaii? Polar bears!” So they put in polar bears. I think there’s one more episode where someone fights a polar bear, then they forget all about them. That is, until they decide to have characters go back in time 20 years, in season 5?, and show the bears in cages, and they say “polar bears are smart and adaptable, so we are going to do studies on them”. Yes, the polar bears’ presence was explained, but in a ham-handed laughable manner. Initially the polar bears were to show the viewer this was no ordinary tropical island, and like the robotic shark, were meant to be deterrents to people trying to escape the island. Then they said feck it. Also, these two bears are either the same bears from 1970 - and they are now geriatric bears - or the original bears had offspring. If so, where are the rest of the bears?
Another example is moving the island. They wrote themselves into a corner, belatedly realized having Penny and/or others show up opened a can of worms about other people finding the island, then came up with this asinine idea that they could just move the island. They move the island by showing some stone grotto with a wooden wheel, a magical pool of water, a dash of salt, and presto! The island has teleported to a new mystical location, Penny and her boat (or not her boat) can get rekt. But HOW? How does turning a wheel plus clear water move an entire island to a new location?
How do you keep a moron in suspense? No one knows, no one cares, “it’s Lost-town, Jake.”
I'm going to go outside now.
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Yeah but other than that it made complete sense. Truly awful stuff.
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I went back and spoilered my comment, in case anyone is brave enough to sit through this. If you could edit that out of your reply?