We needed him, and could afford him. And he has massively improved our defence. Worth every penny.
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
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If you are going to pay 75m for a defender you need one of the best, not a Southampton defender who is only very decent.
Actually my comment was in reference to this post:
which was about Van Dijk playing people onside, your stuff about the header was quite a few messages after this hence why I stated it came after. My mistake was not checking this was also you so fair enough on that I apologise for not checking.
How do you know where his zone starts and ends?
You in Klopp’s back room? I bloody hope not or we’re in bigger trouble than I thought with your football understanding.Why is Evans relevant? Seriously? There were two players who could have finished that chance, the one that did and the one that VD was standing next to, both of whom were accupying the space VD should have been in. If he hadn't gone for a ball he had ZERO chance of winning he would have been there to prevent the goal. It isn't rocket science.
The fachts
Oh so you can see into this parallel universe then where West Brom didn’t score then because Van Dijk didn’t go for the header?
I think you're a bit loony mate Or do you mean that’s what you think would have happened but have absolutely 0 proof of? This is the same logic applied to keeper saving a shot. It's the equivalent of some idiot saying "if the keeper stood 5 yards to the right where the ball went in, he'd have saved that" Well done, but if he stood 5 yards to the right where the ball went in, the striker probably wouldn't have shot there would he... Same principle applies here, if Van Dijk didn't go for that header then maybe Rodriguez's line of sight isn't blocked and he blasts it in near post, or across goal and it deflects in or one of 100 other different possibilities. None of us know what would happen if he didn't go for the ball, so like I said, you're clutching at straws as all he was doing was his job which was to go for the deep corners. Even my colleagues who're United fans don't think it was an error, but honestly that's very unsurprising seeing as they're reasonable and very intelligent guys.Why would Bestietom say this today if he just cost us a goal yesterday ivaldo? Seems a bit of an odd time to be saying this, unless maybe it's because it wasn't a mistake and you're clutching at straws?
Who would have thought that!! As I've said enough times now, only people claiming it was a "mistake" are biased United fans who want to put a top quality player down. Thanks Bestietom, nice to see some reasonable United fans on this forum! As I said before, I'm all cool to agree to disagree as anyone reasonable knows it's not an error, proven by my colleagues today, so honestly, I couldn't care less at this point what you think :')
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His price tag means people will leap at any morsel of opportunity to criticise him according to their agenda. A bit like how it is with Pogba.
In reality, LFC have kept 8 clean sheets in 11 games.
In reality, LFC have kept 8 clean sheets in 11 games.
You needed anyone, and over paid for him. Ffs any half decent center back would have improved you it was obvious for about 3 years. You got taken to the cleaners for him and he hasn’t been that good either a lot of individual mistakes just not as many as your other center half’s. He is a decent player but that’s about it. Much better than what you had, as would have been anyone else. If you had have gotten someone else in summer you could have been a lot closer to city
People not still trying to justify him being worth 75m are they?
Hmm? He's played in 11 PL games for Liverpool but the clean sheets have been 5, not 8. In the FA Cup it's 0 in 2 and in the CL it's 2 in 3.
Also in 4 of those 6 games where he didn't keep a clean sheet Liverpool did managed a clean sheet without him in the first match. Of course the defense with him will improve but I wouldn't say that he has transformed it into a beast.
At least now Liverpool fans are coming with the ‘who cares what he costs he is a good player’ argument after spending months shitting on Pogba for not living upto his fee
Supporters of all clubs make too big a deal of transfer fees.
I thought that was your last post? Plainly you don't have anything better to do than be displaying your lack of logical thinking.Actually my comment was in reference to this post: which was about Van Dijk playing people onside, your stuff about the header was quite a few messages after this hence why I stated it came after. My mistake was not checking this was also you so fair enough on that I apologise for not checking.
How do you know where his zone starts and ends?
Oh so you can see into this parallel universe then where West Brom didn’t score then because Van Dijk didn’t go for the header?
So again, it's not a misordering of posts, you've managed to somehow attiribute someone else's post to me, despite our very linear conversation. Makes sense!
Wow, if in doubt become as pedantic as possible, hey?
You think defending the area he moved into to 'head' the ball was more important to defending the area he vacated? No wonder you don't think he's making mistakes!Nah, not a parallel universe, I've just been able to master that very illusive skill of 'common knowledge'. If a player is standing in the direct vacinity of the ball, he's more likely to be able to play it than if he's 5 yards away. Baffling I know! Your decision to take that as a literal statement and a guarantee shows at this point you don't want to actually discuss the point at hand. Don't worry, that happens to a lot of people when they have their pants pulled down on a public forum!
I'm sure you use that same logic to suggest Demba Ba might have scored even if Gerrard didn't slip, therefore he didn't make a mistake, right? Right!?
I’m not sure they overpaid considering the state of the market at the time - and the events of this particular transfer.
He’s definitely upgraded their defence and looked good - even with the odd mistake (which our defenders make too). I think he’s been a solid buy for them - the bitterness in this thread is a bit pathetic.
What bitterness? and what do you mean our, didn't you used to support Nottingham Forest?
Not bitter it is a fact
Jonny Evans for 15m would have improved them just as much
And if you don’t think 75m is over laying you are deluded. Their insistence that he was literally the only center half on the planet who would improved them left them no choice and southampton knew that
It's quite a modern phenomenon, probably brought on by today's FM generation. I personally couldn't give a toss how much my club, or any other club, pay for a player. If that player improves the team then it's money well spent. If he doesn't, then not only is it wasted money, but it's also wasted time. Because your club could be stagnating, or even worse, regressing because said player has actually made things worse. A player's worth can really only be determined when his career has ended at the club who paid out a large fee for him. People all over the country choked on their cornflakes when United paid £30 million for Rio Ferdinand some 18 years ago (that's when £30 million was a lot of money). However, it was a drop in the ocean compared to the success he helped bring to United, which in turn brought in countless millions with regards to sponsorship deals, commercial & corporate sales, ticket sales etc. Since then that side of things has grown quite significantly. The Premier League is now a global entity which attracts an awful lot of people from all over the globe, so any silverware or success a player brings to the club is additionally rewarded by the extra revenue brought in by some of the aforementioned avenues.
Would you really buy Jonny Evans over van dijk?
Agree with this. For me the biggest culprits are Liverpool and Spurs fans who can't shut up about net spend.
If the club is capable of spending money without going bust then I don't see what's wrong in spending to improve squad.
Not sure you actually understand what bitter means.
Perhaps I got the terminology wrong - but I do find the constant digs about whenever he makes a mistake / how much he cost etc pathetic. It was the same on here for a while after Chelsea signed Kante - we had a massive thread which was updated whenever he made a mistake. I think a lot of people would have liked to have signed Kante, Van Dijk etc and so like to point out whenever they slip up. Is that bitterness? Each to their own, but I find it a bit much.
I thought that was your last post? Plainly you don't have anything better to do than be displaying your lack of logical thinking.
So again, it's not a misordering of posts, you've managed to somehow attiribute someone else's post to me, despite our very linear conversation. Makes sense!
Wow, if in doubt become as pedantic as possible, hey?
Nah, not a parallel universe, I've just been able to master that very illusive skill of 'common knowledge'. If a player is standing in the direct vacinity of the ball, he's more likely to be able to play it than if he's 5 yards away. Baffling I know! Your decision to take that as a literal statement and a guarantee shows at this point you don't want to actually discuss the point at hand. Don't worry, that happens to a lot of people when they have their pants pulled down on a public forum!
I'm sure you use that same logic to suggest Demba Ba might have scored even if Gerrard didn't slip, therefore he didn't make a mistake, right? Right!?
Honestly I don't know why I'm carrying on but I will, certain things you say are just so laughable that I can't help but address them as you make it too easy. What I'll do, just for you so it's simple for you to understand, I'll bold the important bits then you don't have to think too much. Hopefully that helps get stuff into that head of yours instead of you ignoring most of the stuff I've said.
What you seem to struggle to comprehend (which is odd as it's very simple) he's doing his job when he goes for the ball, that's why he was put in that area, to attempt to go for the ball...
Does this "common knowledge" not stretch to realising Van Dijk's actions probably impacted what Rodriguez did with the ball? It seems pretty simple to me that him jumping for the ball and blocking Rodriguez's view will have likely impacted what Rodriguez did with the ball. How do you know he'd even play it to Dawson if Van Dijk hadn't blocked his view across goal? And again like my previous analogy, why would Dawson shoot directly at Van Dijk if Van Dijk's stood there, surely he'd aim somewhere else? (Called Chaos Theory, should look it up, you might learn something!)
Don't want to discuss the point at hand? I literally was talking about Van Dijk in that paragraph and countering your point on if he'd stayed still he'd have definitely stopped it, you really are an odd one
Difference between Van Dijk and Gerrard, one was doing their job and what they were instructed to do and in turn obstructed the view and put pressure on the player trying to take the ball down from the deep corner, the other slipped and didn't do his job which is obviously a mistake so no, not the same logic. I honestly assumed basics like this would come under your "common knowledge", it doesn't seem very extensive this common knowledge of yours does it
Your decision to ignore the entire last paragraph of my previous comment shows you didn't actually know what to say to it without looking like an idiot. Don't worry, that happens to a lot of people when they have their pants pulled down on a public forum!
I'd say I'm done again, but honestly just depends on what you reply and whether it's reasonable or not but looking at your previous responses it probably won't be
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Pretty much this. £75m was high but a player is worth what a club is willing to pay.
You must be in the lead, look how many emoticons you've used!!Honestly I don't know why I'm carrying on but I will, certain things you say are just so laughable that I can't help but address them as you make it too easy. What I'll do, just for you so it's simple for you to understand, I'll bold the important bits then you don't have to think too much. Hopefully that helps get stuff into that head of yours instead of you ignoring most of the stuff I've said.
What you seem to struggle to comprehend (which is odd as it's very simple) he's doing his job when he goes for the ball, that's why he was put in that area, to attempt to go for the ball...
Does this "common knowledge" not stretch to realising Van Dijk's actions probably impacted what Rodriguez did with the ball? It seems pretty simple to me that him jumping for the ball and blocking Rodriguez's view will have likely impacted what Rodriguez did with the ball. How do you know he'd even play it to Dawson if Van Dijk hadn't blocked his view across goal? And again like my previous analogy, why would Dawson shoot directly at Van Dijk if Van Dijk's stood there, surely he'd aim somewhere else? (Called Chaos Theory, should look it up, you might learn something!)
Don't want to discuss the point at hand? I literally was talking about Van Dijk in that paragraph and countering your point on if he'd stayed still he'd have definitely stopped it, you really are an odd one
Difference between Van Dijk and Gerrard, one was doing their job and what they were instructed to do and in turn obstructed the view and put pressure on the player trying to take the ball down from the deep corner, the other slipped and didn't do his job which is obviously a mistake so no, not the same logic. I honestly assumed basics like this would come under your "common knowledge", it doesn't seem very extensive this common knowledge of yours does it
Your decision to ignore the entire last paragraph of my previous comment shows you didn't actually know what to say to it without looking like an idiot. Don't worry, that happens to a lot of people when they have their pants pulled down on a public forum!
I'd say I'm done again, but honestly just depends on what you reply and whether it's reasonable or not but looking at your previous responses it probably won't be
What you seem to not understand is he isn't doing his job. Challenging for a ball you can't win is not doing your job. Vacating a defensively strong position to go for a ball he can't win isn't don't his job. Leaving 2 players completely free 6 yards from goal to challenge for a ball he can't win isn't doing his job. Frankly, it's moronic to suggest this is what's he's supposed to do. I mean seriously! Deviate some of that limited brain power away from breathing for a moment and actually think about it!
See this is the difference between good and great defenders, their decision making means they rarely find themselves out of position or going for balls/players they have no reasonable expectation of stopping.
No, your player standing a yard in front of Rodriguez is the one more than likely effecting his decision, though it's highly unlikely he would be trying to do anything but cut it back when you consider the angle and his bodies positioning. Actually take a look at that clip you shared. Watching it might help you understand.
Oh so you really are being that simple. See, when I say 'he would have been there to prevent the goal,' thats not saying unequivocally he would have stopped it, just that it increases his chances of doing so exponentially. Most adults are able to see that and not assume the poster is stating he has the ability to see into alternative futures. I mean come on, is this what your inane posts have been directed towards? Much like if I said to my friend, 'I would have gone to the football with you if I wasn't working,' it doesn't me I can guarantee I would have been there and not been hit by a bus or any other variable along the way. Are you seriously trying to argue that VVD would not have been in a better position to challenge the goalscorer if he hadn't gone for a ball we all know, you included, he had no hope of getting?
Oh I forgot:
You must be in the lead, look how many emoticons you've used!!
What you seem to not understand is he isn't doing his job. Challenging for a ball you can't win is not doing your job. Vacating a defensively strong position to go for a ball he can't win isn't don't his job. Leaving 2 players completely free 6 yards from goal to challenge for a ball he can't win isn't doing his job. Frankly, it's moronic to suggest this is what's he's supposed to do. I mean seriously! Deviate some of that limited brain power away from breathing for a moment and actually think about it!
See this is the difference between good and great defenders, their decision making means they rarely find themselves out of position or going for balls/players they have no reasonable expectation of stopping.
No, your player standing a yard in front of Rodriguez is the one more than likely effecting his decision, though it's highly unlikely he would be trying to do anything but cut it back when you consider the angle and his bodies positioning. Actually take a look at that clip you shared. Watching it might help you understand.
Oh so you really are being that simple. See, when I say 'he would have been there to prevent the goal,' thats not saying unequivocally he would have stopped it, just that it increases his chances of doing so exponentially. Most adults are able to see that and not assume the poster is stating he has the ability to see into alternative futures. I mean come on, is this what your inane posts have been directed towards? Much like if I said to my friend, 'I would have gone to the football with you if I wasn't working,' it doesn't me I can guarantee I would have been there and not been hit by a bus or any other variable along the way. Are you seriously trying to argue that VVD would not have been in a better position to challenge the goalscorer if he hadn't gone for a ball we all know, you included, he had no hope of getting?
Oh I forgot:
I quite like you ivaldo not going to lie, pretty funny guy (and that isn't sarcasm)
this is the [relatively] reasonable reply I was hoping for so I don't have to carry on anymore!I really can't be bothered to go back and forth anymore as we've both now said our bits. You think it was an error okay and I see your point of view, I don't think it was an error as he was challenging for the ball like he was intentionally put at the back of the zone to do so I just see it as him doing his job. Maybe it comes down to what we view as errors. Like I've said before, I'm an objective person and I'm happy to blame our players when they deserve it (and there are definitely 2-3 times at least Van Dijk deserves it since he's been here: Sterling vs Man City, Mata vs Man United just to name 2 off the top of my head) but I really don't view that one as an error as he was just doing what he'd been put at the back of the zone to do, which is try to head the deep corners but like I say I respect your opinion and I'm all cool with it. Neither of us are going to change each others mind so lets just leave it here.
Why don’t you just both admit what everyone knows to be true?
He’s easily our best centre half but it looks like we probably had to pay over the odds to get him (though personally I think he will prove to be an absolute bargain buy).
He’s easily our best centre half but it looks like we probably had to pay over the odds to get him (though personally I think he will prove to be an absolute bargain buy).
There is people who do not rate Hummels, who do not rate Pique, who do not rate Ramos, Umtiti, etc. It is nearly impossible to find consensus on CBs these days.
Would have took him here in a heartbeat, better then all our defenders for me, fee is high but so is most fees now, hes improved Liverpools defence a lot in the short time hes been there although they still need another CB and Holding player in midfield to help there cause.
It's been good fun.I quite like you ivaldo not going to lie, pretty funny guy (and that isn't sarcasm)
I really can't be bothered to go back and forth anymore as we've both now said our bits. You think it was an error okay and I see your point of view, I don't think it was an error as he was challenging for the ball like he was intentionally put at the back of the zone to do so I just see it as him doing his job. Maybe it comes down to what we view as errors. Like I've said before, I'm an objective person and I'm happy to blame our players when they deserve it (and there are definitely 2-3 times at least Van Dijk deserves it since he's been here: Sterling vs Man City, Mata vs Man United just to name 2 off the top of my head) but I really don't view that one as an error as he was just doing what he'd been put at the back of the zone to do, which is try to head the deep corners but like I say I respect your opinion and I'm all cool with it. Neither of us are going to change each others mind so lets just leave it here.
Depends on how you class someone to be a bargain, personally until an inferior CB goes for significantly more than 75m I dont see how VVD will be a bargain unless you think Liverpool winning the UCL or PL with him in the side means he's a bargain?
That made my head hurt a bit.
Ok..forget ‘bargain’ and replace it with ‘a financial investment that in years to come will be viewed as being a very smart one’
Always looks so hard done by whenever the TV cameras are on him.
Garry Neville reckons he's like Jaap Stam.
When did he say that?
In his Podcast on Sunday
https://stitcher.acast.com/livestit...NI0WJTfC-g__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJXAFARUOTJQ3BLOQ
Stam had pace and a very different style of defending. Don't see it myself.
Gary Neville talks a lot of shit, I remember him saying Pogba would be fifth choice CM at City.
I'm too young to remember Stam but it just struck me how highly Neville rates VVD now., Also Van Dijk got good pace for a CB.
You’re saying he’s wrong?
Not compared to Stam, that’s the comparison.
Well, not sure how we can settle this definitively but VVD out sprinted Mane at St. Mary's. I would say he would give Stam a run for his money.
Can't say I'm surprised at how he's improved Liverpools defence. A lot were laughing at them paying that much for him but I wish we would've done and said so at the time. Best CB in the league for me and has been for a couple of years, imo. I find Maguire very simliar but not as good which is why I was hoping we'd land him, but hey-ho - can't have 'em all.