Virgil van Dijk | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Have a day off your scouse prick!
He plays like someone who has to play in a World Cup in a few weeks - scared to tackle and go into challenges
He's an arrogant prick, seems to think he can defend with his eyes. Since that Sancho goal he's been doing the same, he should be dropped but he won't fortunately.
This man is doing his absolute upmost to restore his Scouse reputation after he sold out and won a PL with United. Even he knows he's full of shit here.
Why does he think leaning forward on his front leg but not actually moving is defending?
He's from Chester.
This really isn't even debatable, playing CB in a team that operates on the front-foot is infinitely more difficult.
I think its complicated because fundamentally its just different. I think its easier being a CB in a team that defends deep all the time because you have so much support and I think its easier being a CB in a team like peak Liverpool who are defending very little and their midfield offers them so much protection.
You also get a lot more slack in a team that is steamrolling most opposition. In an underperforming team you can make a mistake and cost your team the game and all anyone wants to talk about is your big mistake and all the little ones you made. You win 3-1 and no one really cares that much. Same with strikers. You miss a chance that would have changed the game and its treated very differently to 3 misses that made no difference.
This season VVD has fallen off a cliff. Looks slow, disinterested and positionally poor. Prior to this season he has easily been one of the best CBs in a long time though. Whenever he was called into action he was largely imperious. I think its just a perfect storm of a bit of a shit midfield in front of him. TAA going completely AWOL and VVD slowing down slightly along with a general malaise in the side.
Excellent for a couple of years. Still a top centre back in my eyes..
Horribly exposed with not much in front of him now though.
Great to watch.
Horribly exposed with not much in front of him now though.
Great to watch.
Nar, playing as a CB for Pep for example is a walk in the park.
Playing for a team that constantly invites on attacks means you actually have to fecking DEFEND, a lot.
Most of the time defenders (Trent a great example), in high press team barely do feck all defending over 90 minutes. The defenders need to be good when the counter does happen though, and awake, but facing a couple of attacks a game is obviously easier then constant pressure and attacks against you. That’s what is not even debatable.
At 31 Smalling was a better defender than him at 31.
Quality over quantity. Proactive defending is more difficult than reactive defending. You will have to make less actions on the ball itself like tackles, blocks, clearances etc in such a system, but those are the easiest things to do as a CB really, particularly when you are compact as a defence.
The single hardest thing to do as a defender in my opinion (at least from personal experience) is defend a lot of space - reading the game effectively and anticipating play, and being in the correct position all the time are much harder things to do than the more basic defensive actions you need to take in a low-block system, like competing for the ball in the air or getting your body in front of a shot. And the stakes are much higher if you make a mistake, you have to make the correct decision every time or you'll be punished, particularly when we're talking PL level.
If it was easier to defend in such a system, why do we see players excel in low-block systems but look utterly lost and give away goals when their team is playing on the front foot? And it's not just speed and agility, it's just that it's a lot easier to defend when you are fixed on the ball and making actions on the ball than thinking ahead and defending space.
Well look here, the non debatable is suddenly a debate.
I disagree, I think John Stones for example looks much worse in England’s shite system and gets exposed way more often, because he has to actually defend there. For City he spends 99% of the game doing anything but defending.
I don’t think Trent for example gets a game in a low block, probably why the boring feck Southgate doesn’t pick him.
Liverpool’s defenders en masse look shitter now they are suddenly being made to defend more often.
Looks sluggish for some time now.
He's had what 2 good seasons in a row? Maybe 3 at a push? yet he was meant to be the best ever CB in the PL.
People need to get real, there were CB's who were consistently doing what he was year in year out for a good 5/6 years straight if not more.
People need to get real, there were CB's who were consistently doing what he was year in year out for a good 5/6 years straight if not more.
You could argue he had the best ever peak. Altough i would rate Vidic and maybe Stam higher in that category.
He is badly exposed right now with his midfield not covering much.
Don‘t know if he will get back to his old self but right now he is not in the argument for best ever PL CB.
I could see that considering he never played in an international tournament and that's his last chance to play one in his prime.
He obviously doesnt want to miss us win our first World Cup
Definitely debatable. At a front foot team you often have less defending to do. In a less front foot team you have more defending to do but with less protection.
Depends case to case.
Would you swap him for Martinez?
Based on what both have achieved in their careers you'd be mad not to take Van Dijk. He's clearly gone backwards this season though whilst Martinez has had a good start to his United career. Right now, Martinez is in better form.
A couple of things;
1) VVD was never in the top 10 CB's of all time.
2) For 2-3 seasons VVD looked like he could break into the top 10 CB's of all time.
For me, still a very good CB, who is currently being exposed by the failings in his team. Additionally, his injury seems to have effected him both mentally and physically in terms of pace, which was crucial for him.
31 for a CB means he still has a lot of time time left, unless he declines really quickly (I think his current form in temporary.)
However, he is a great example of how Liverpool fans and their media cheerleaders get way too over excited about players far too early.
1) VVD was never in the top 10 CB's of all time.
2) For 2-3 seasons VVD looked like he could break into the top 10 CB's of all time.
For me, still a very good CB, who is currently being exposed by the failings in his team. Additionally, his injury seems to have effected him both mentally and physically in terms of pace, which was crucial for him.
31 for a CB means he still has a lot of time time left, unless he declines really quickly (I think his current form in temporary.)
However, he is a great example of how Liverpool fans and their media cheerleaders get way too over excited about players far too early.
VVD 31 - Martinez 24
I get what you’re saying but Virgil doesn’t have that long left really whilst Martinez has possibly 10 years in him?
Might not but as simple choice as it looks at first glance?
He just looks complacent to be honest. Maybe needs a new challenge?
No doubt though he hasn't been the same player that he was before that knee injury. Can't really blame him on that.
No doubt though he hasn't been the same player that he was before that knee injury. Can't really blame him on that.
For basic football business alone you would swap VVD and Martinez.
Martinez would be an amazing compliment to VVD, he has the stronger mentality imo.
When the midfield was protecting him so much, many didn't give credit to the midfield but to the awesomeness of VVD
Defense is great - Hail the great VVD
Defense sucks - Blame the midfield
Seems a win-win situation
It’s the same argument used for Trent. He looks poor because he’s being exposed more now by others.
Could it be that the engine room midfield actually helped mask the deficiencies of these players in the first place rather than the other way around?
No there’s no way you can say he had the highest ever peak. He’s played at a time where there’s a dearth of quality CBs and a dearth of quality attackers.
England at one point had 4 world class defenders and 1 from a tier below (Campbell, Rio, Terry, King, and Carragher). I’d say he maybe fits in somewhere alongside Terry & King in terms of overall quality (but due to King’s fitness issues he’d be behind Virg if he was playing today).
I’d say Campbell, and Rio are pretty clearly better. Terry edges Virg in the old school defending but for a more progressive team I’d say Virg is better.
But you don't know that Martinez is going to have that longevity. We've seen a lot of players come into United over the last decade (post Ferguson) and have good spells then something goes wrong, and it all falls apart. Why not wait until Martinez has helped United achieve something meaningful? Van Dijk had at least two years (18/19 and 19/20) where he was undeniably one of if not the best CB around at that time. He's been a big part in Liverpool competing for and winning the Premier League and Champions League.
There's no denying Martinez is in better form right now, but do you think putting him in Liverpool's current side suddenly makes all of our problems go away?
Oh no. That wasn’t the question though. It was purely would you swap the two?
VVD had two very good seasons granted. As I say though how long does he have left at the top level given he’s now 31?
I think it’s early days with Martinez, as with Saliba too actually, but both are much younger and have plenty of development to do. They may not reach the level VVD has, granted, but the question is at this specific moment in time would you swap them…
I don’t think it’s that much of a straight forward decision. VVD could be having a blip and Martinez could just be in good form. Or VVD could be finished given his age now and Martinez could just be getting started.
I wouldn't swap them because I don't think Martinez coming into our back line to replace Van Dijk fixes anything.
That’s not the question though in it’s entirety is it.
Looking at this season and beyond.
Then still no because I have no idea how good Martinez is going to be. Ask me again three years from now.
Will be too late then as VVD will have retired or be playing elsewhere I imagine
This kind of short term thinking is why your squad is stale, tired and old.
Then again no because I don't think swapping Van Dijk out for Martinez improves anything right now or for the season. You're either asking me short term or long term and both answers are no because I don't think it solves any of our issues.
I'd say the same about Saliba.
If at the end of the season Martinez has continued on this trajectory and Van Dijk has continued to have a terrible season, then I'd probably say yes at that point.
I find that a strange take, especially long term, but each to their own.
You can keep the old boys!
VVD is having a mare, and it's not imo a flash in the pan its been coming since last season, his Injury has but him at least a few yrds off the pace, his statue defending this season especially is plain to see. Leeds winner he just watched the ball and didn't react, Same as Sancho goal him and TAA both did it!.
Is he afraid of another Injury before a World cup? Or is it like most CB that reach there limit and thats it, in his defence hes not getting much help from CM in front of him or the constant changes in RB . This is not a blip imo there is a problem there and FSG having spent over £80 on 1 player seemed to be the answer???
Is he afraid of another Injury before a World cup? Or is it like most CB that reach there limit and thats it, in his defence hes not getting much help from CM in front of him or the constant changes in RB . This is not a blip imo there is a problem there and FSG having spent over £80 on 1 player seemed to be the answer???
Spending 80m on one player is not the issue, it was offering VVD a 5 year contract last season. The guy is done!