Its hard to compare stats between Maguire and Lindelöf. Even though they are both CBs they have different roles. For example long balls from opponents… I bet they have decided before the game that Maguire should go for the header. Lindelöf fall back and cover. Stats show Maguire had more aerial duels, and should have. To use that stat and say he’s better is not right.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Its hard to compare stats between Maguire and Lindelöf. Even though they are both CBs they have different roles. For example long balls from opponents… I bet they have decided before the game that Maguire should go for the header. Lindelöf fall back and cover. Stats show Maguire had more aerial duels, and should have. To use that stat and say he’s better is not right.
It's some of his weaknesses, and it's been going on alot this season, that's why alot of people think he's been thrash.
So we are suppose to judge Maguire on matches he's not playing??? I'm sure the club, fans and even Maguire himself would like that, unfortunately he have played quite a few.
Are you really saying that's the hard evidence that's Harry been a good defender? Like that's the one ingredient for a functioning football team.
Our best CB currently
Genuinely don't know how many times it needs to be explained to you that there's a lot more to defending than what happens on a stat sheet. Positional awareness doesn't show up in any WhoScored stat, yet it's arguably the most important attribute for a defender. Losing your man, not reliably cutting out crosses at the near post...there's 20 things that don't show up on any statsheet, yet are vital to being a top centre back.
By your metric (WhoScored rating) Tarkowski and Saiss are better defenders than Marquinhos and Ruben Dias and Varane has never, in his entire career, had as good a season as Lewis Dunk in 2017.
So when it doesn't suit your agenda it's no good. Got it...
Maguire is one of the worst defenders in the league this season. Anyone who understands football can see it. (Slightly better past couple of games, but still plenty of mistakes)
Lindelof has played mostly well this season. Anyone who understands football can see it.
Statistics only shows exactly what the statistic sets out to show. Nothing more nothing less. Statistics without interpretation and context are useless . Meteorology is the same. Numbers that might mean many different things but without application its meaningless.
He's become incredibly underrated because of the image he developed early on here where he was bullied by opposition.
He still gets beaten a few, times, but who doesn't but his defending, ball playing and ball carrying abilities are top notch. Add to that he's got decent pace for a CB and his general understanding of the game is very good too
He still gets beaten a few, times, but who doesn't but his defending, ball playing and ball carrying abilities are top notch. Add to that he's got decent pace for a CB and his general understanding of the game is very good too
Jones was really fantastic in 2014/2015. May not have been the very best, but he defended very well for us and we had the best defensive record in the league. The problem has been repeating that and staying fit
This season we have the 9th best defensive record in the league. A 2014/2015 Jones would be better than our CBs this season, certainly would defend better than Maguire and Lindelof. In the 1 game he did play it was our best performance from a CB this season
Also in 15/16 the highest rated CB was Virgil Van Dijk for Southampton. Maybe we should have taken the ratings seriously then. The next season he was 2nd behind Otamendi. So thats 1st and 2nd of CBs for Southampton, I dont believe thats been done before on their ratings also.
We played with a low-block and a team that took little risk. It was much easier to be a defender for Man Utd in that team than it is today.
Chris Smalling and Phil Jones is basically the definition of a Burnley-defender. Chris Smalling is barely good enough for a pretty average Serie A-side (8th). And the level in Serie A at the moment is waaaay below the PL.
Should play over Maguire on Wednesday
Seriously, this kind of nonsense have to stop, after a really good game. People start throwing things like this. He had some serious howlers this seasons too, but escapes criticism for his low profile an (in) ability to engage more in duels.
However for the last game he's done well and happy that he showed more responsibility going forward as well. Still HM + Varane to start all day..
Oh grow the up, people are just pointing out why relying solely on stats is dumb, there's no need to act like a complete child.
You prefer we be worse in defense? Weird position to take, but you do you.
Again posters twisting it to fit their agenda, Smalling was a top player for Van Gaal for a season or two when Rio called him a beast. Just because he's got different abilities doesn't mean he wasn't a great player, often proactive and palyed well with any palyer diffrently with any CB. In Italy he started well then became injury prone and is 32 now. Jones is a similar story, even though he started to be injury prone much sooner. Both quality centrebacks who achieved way more than Lindelof who cost us dozen of games almost every season being bullied by defenders aerially, for strength and speed. I swear some people just like to have selective memory to fit their agendas.
Fecking state of this. The pro-Varane anti-Dunk agenda has gone on for too long!
This isnt the 90's there is more to defending then physical dominance.
Lindelöf has been much better than Maguire this season. No agenda. Anyone who has any clue about modern football can see that.
I would play him if only because his passing from the back is actually excellent in terms of creating chances. I feel like Maguire is supposedly the better passes, but half the times his long passes are just to the wing which are a lot less risky and rewarding
The state of this reply
When you have no reply just go with "agenda this, agenda that".
So I will just repeat the same question, was Varane never better in his career than 2017 dunk? Or is Tarkowski and Saiss better than Marquinhos?
Is Nico Schlotterbeck best CB in top 5 leagues?
Do you believe there are 30+ better CBs than Ruben Dias and Marquinhos.
50+ CBs better than Rudiger, 117 CBs than de vrij and finally 100+ CBs better than Varane and Maguire?
I mean if you are using stats and use them so religiously to defend Maguire, at least use the same rating to judge where these CBs rate among others in top 5 leagues.
The state of this reply
When you have no reply just go with "agenda this, agenda that".
So I will just repeat the same question, was Varane never better in his career than 2017 dunk? Or is Tarkowski and Saiss better than Marquinhos?
Is Nico Schlotterbeck best CB in top 5 leagues?
Do you believe there are 30+ better CBs than Ruben Dias and Marquinhos.
50+ CBs better than Rudiger, 117 CBs than de vrij and finally 100+ CBs better than Varane and Maguire?
I mean if you are using stats and use them so religiously to defend Maguire, at least use the same rating to judge where these CBs rate among others in top 5 leagues.
You are comparing players from different teams. That makes no sense considering one team may not have to do as much defensive work as another. But when you compare players on the same team the stats tell a whole different story. But that may be too hard for you to grasp or your agenda just gets in the way of realizing the truth
I don't rely just on the stats. I use the stats to back up my argument. You see, when you look for fault you will find it, and way too many people are looking for fault with Maguire. He is being scapegoated when he is way better of a defender than Lindelof. So rather than just saying "because I said so" like you lot do, I back my statements up with stats...
Again, in the month of January, against heavy weights like Villa, Brentford and Watford, De Gea had to make more saves than any keeper in the league and ended up getting the player of the month award in the EPL. This all happened while Maguire was out injured/sick. The only game Maguire played was against our toughest opponent that month, West Ham. In that game De Gea only had to make one save. But go on, tell me again how Lindelof is the better defender and that you "saw it with your own eyes"....
No...we are judging the team without Maguire. You seem to think he should be benched. Well what happened when he was benched? De Gea had to save our asses. And not against top clubs. Against Brentford, Villa and Wolves. In fact, the only game that month where De Gea didn't have to save us was against West Ham. Our toughest opponent that month. The only game Maguire played and De Gea only had to make one save. The other games he was man of the match. This shouldn't be hard to understand...
Realizing the truth that you are talking out of your arse? No, we all have realised that long back.
Also from same team,
Stones > Ruben Dias last season.
Matip > VVD in CL 2018-19 season,
Evans > Rio in 2012-13 when Rio ended up in PFA team of the year.
Evans > Rio in 2011-12
Evans > Rio and Vida in 2008-09 CL
Evans > Rio in 2009-10
Evans > Rio in 2010-11 CL
And there are plenty of other examples. Can't wait to hear more "Truths/facts" about this.
Does anyone have a short summary of how we played in January this year, you know when we played Brentford, Villa, Wolves and West Ham and DDG was player of the month? My internet is acting up and all I can see is the last two pages of this thread and not a single soul has mentioned it 423 times like I hoped they would.
Oh wait..
Oh wait..
That's just nonsense. Maguire has been in shocking from from the begining but Lindelof has been woeful too, even though I would agree he had less bad games because simply he doesn't get into spotlight so often being the passive defender and not being the most expensive defender in the world, there's a uge bias. You could see it even in the last game,
Lindelof had a good game, so had Maguire but praise is given to Lindelof mostly, and Maguire still being called shite, "despite the goal". Obvious double standards.. But hard to argue with an army of biased fans on football forum really..
Seems an obvious point to make but Maguire gets more flack because he's the captain. He's held up to higher standards, which he rightly should be.
I’m actually tired of this debate. As far as I’m concerned they are both not good enough to be first picks for Manchester United but because we have a gaping hole in what’s known as the DMZ (aka midfield), we’re stuck with them for a lot longer
You are such a liar. I just looked up Matip vs VVD and the stats aren't even close. I can only imagine the rest are lies too
Virgil van Dijk Statistics | Premier League
Joel Matip Statistics | Premier League
Go and check per 90 mins stats, how can anyone with functioning brain compare raw numbers for player who played 30+ league games with player who played half of that.
Edit: I hope you know what per 90 mins stats are. Also those players ratings are as per your unbiased Bible, whoscored.com. Evans was rated higher than Rio in almost all seasons.
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Name me the serious howlers - go on list them and then list those by Maguire, Varane and Bailly. I'm not the one spouting nonsense here...
So your opinion is that with Maguire in the team in those matches we play good? We have had plenty showcases this season with Maguire in the team...
United is a dysfunctional team atm, dosent matter if you put in goat CB those matches and we still would be shit.
I have no problem with Maguire in the team, depends on the opposition and more important form. This season he played way to much considering form.
Victor have just been better, even Varane been better and he haven't really been that impressive so far.
Lindelof has not been woeful this season, that is fiction.
Apart from what roonster09 wrote above, it's also worth pointing out that he specifically wrote " Matip > VVD in CL 2018-19 season". Do note "CL", not "PL", which are the stats you're looking at.
At this point I'm not even sure that you're not just straight up baiting us.
Ok. Lindelof is the better defender and i saw it with my own eyes (oh, and so did 99% of the worlds population - i did a poll)!
But i have statistics showing that lindelof has been in the correct position 95% of the game time. According to the same statistics Maguire is only in the correct positon 14% of the time.
Nope...we have been playing like absolute shite. My argument is that even though we are shite, Maguire is a better option than Lindelof and is the least of our problems. Our biggest problem has been scoring goals. Hopefully we've turned a corner on that now...
Thats because you were looking for it. Your agenda prevented you from seeing the truth
So I provided all the stats and did all the work and now you want me to look up some other stats to help prove your point? Give your head a shake
Ffs
, use your head. Player who played more games will have more defensive actions than player who played half of the games, that's why per 90 mins stats are used. It's like saying player who scored 11 goals in 100 games is a better goal scorer than player who scored 10 in 10. If you are so lazy to use then shut up about stats, something you have no clue about anyways.
Let's not forget to conclude, Matip is better than VVD, Lovren is as good. Also Evans was better than Rio in almost all seasons since whoscored started collecting stats.
Sadler won't acecpt this and look the other way.Ffs
If you are so lazy to use then shut up about stats, something you have no clue about anyways.
Let's not forget to conclude, Matip is better than VVD, Lovren is as good. Also Evans was better than Rio in almost all seasons since whoscored started collecting stats.
This ignorant behaviour reminds me of guy I know. He believes the earth is flat, just ignoring every proof or arguement against it. Somehow some people just can't accept to be wrong.
Wind your neck in, you have literally no standing to lecture anyone about biases. You, of all people, lecturing people about agendas, fecking joker.
(this one is good because you moderate yourself into making the exact same claim.)
Ah yes, "no one here's played professionally so they're all too dumb to see what I'm seeing."
No one who understands football thinks this.
Don't know what this even means, but you invoked women's football so I'm assuming it's not meant to be flattering.
And this is just from this thread. That's not the opinions of someone unbiased and enlightened, that's the comments of someone heavily biased and incapable of separating reality from whatever goes on in their head.
Brutal takedown!
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