[VanDeBank]

Can't take the suggestion we should sell lindelof but keep Bailly seriously.
Lindelof has cost us more goals simply because he's not a crock like the guy you say we should keep.

That suggestion is based in reality. We can't sell Bailly because he's a crock with a fresh contract and Lindelof had a good euros. This isn't football manager.

Bailly often creates dangerous situations, but it doesn't concede us goals as often per minutes played as Lindelof does. I don't have any numbers for you, it's just a hunch. Somehow opponents are just as surprised at his stupdity as we are.

We're setting up with 2 centre backs that are very strong defensively and not that great on the ball: Varane and Maguire. Bailly is more similar to them, because he at least attempts to defend. It's what you want from a squad player that isn't good enough, come in for a few games without having to make too many changes.

 

[golden_blunder]

Yeah it'll be good having extra competition. Playing with a world class defender in training might prompt Varane to step up a gear.

Yep Shaw should inspire all

 

[Vidyoyo]

Yep Shaw should inspire all

 

[JustAGuest]

We should try to sell him on the back of a good euros. He's proven time and time again he's not quite good enough for the highest level. He'd be fine for most bundesliga/serie A/L1/La liga clubs.

Bailly does some dumb stuff quite frequently, but I don't recall it costing us goals that often, unlike Lindelöf's passivity. He's quite a bit better on the ball than Bailly, but since our CB pairing is going to be Varane and Maguire we're not gonna be relying on much playmaking out the back anyway.

Varane and Maguire aren't that injury prone. Tuanzebe and Bailly as backups should be fine, with McTominay and/or an academy lad being able to play there during an injury crisis.

I hope not. Lindelof is a good backup who will also do well whenever we want to go with 3 at the back. Bailly cannot be relied upon to stay fit. Tuanzebe has not shown enough at this level - I would rather see him loaned out than sit on the bench for us.

 

[Adisa]

That suggestion is based in reality. We can't sell Bailly because he's a crock with a fresh contract and Lindelof had a good euros. This isn't football manager.

Bailly often creates dangerous situations, but it doesn't concede us goals as often per minutes played as Lindelof does. I don't have any numbers for you, it's just a hunch. Somehow opponents are just as surprised at his stupdity as we are.

We're setting up with 2 centre backs that are very strong defensively and not that great on the ball: Varane and Maguire. Bailly is more similar to them, because he at least attempts to defend. It's what you want from a squad player that isn't good enough, come in for a few games without having to make too many changes.

So we should weaken the squad by selling a reliable back up but keeping a crock?

 

[A-man]

Bailly often creates dangerous situations, but it doesn't concede us goals as often per minutes played as Lindelof does. I don't have any numbers for you, it's just a hunch. Somehow opponents are just as surprised at his stupdity as we are.

We're setting up with 2 centre backs that are very strong defensively and not that great on the ball: Varane and Maguire. Bailly is more similar to them, because he at least attempts to defend. It's what you want from a squad player that isn't good enough, come in for a few games without having to make too many changes.

That’s not true. Premier league stats from last season for our centre backs:

Conceded goals per 90 min
Lindelof 1.0
Maguire 1.1
Bailly 1.7

Lindelof and Varane are also more similar in style than Bailly and Varane. Bailly wants to attack the ball and player and is horrible at defending the space behind himself. Defending the space behind is what both Lindelof and Varane focus on (Varane goes in to few duels, less than Lindelof).

 

[JustAGuest]

That’s not true. Premier league stats from last season for our centre backs:

Conceded goals per 90 min
Lindelof 1.0
Maguire 1.1
Bailly 1.7

Lindelof and Varane are also more similar in style than Bailly and Varane. Bailly wants to attack the ball and player and is horrible at defending the space behind himself. Defending the space behind is what both Lindelof and Varane focus on (Varane goes in to few duels, less than Lindelof).

Difficult to argue with the actual numbers.

It's also clear who Ole thinks is the better defender. For all stick Lindelof is getting we had the 3rd best defensive record in 19/20. This past season was worse, but with 6 conceded against Spurs in a game he didn't play I'm not sure how much you can blame him.

Varane is of course an improvement, but it would not make any sense for us to get rid of Lindelof. Squad depth is a good thing.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The goal lewandowski scored against sweden shows exactly why I don't like Lindelof.

He should be the one taking charge and leading him away from goal, instead he stands off him, gives him space and allows him to cut inside on his right foot. He then curls it top corner.

Easily avoidable if he just had a little bit of command.

 

[VanDeBank]

That’s not true. Premier league stats from last season for our centre backs:

Conceded goals per 90 min
Lindelof 1.0
Maguire 1.1
Bailly 1.7

Lindelof and Varane are also more similar in style than Bailly and Varane. Bailly wants to attack the ball and player and is horrible at defending the space behind himself. Defending the space behind is what both Lindelof and Varane focus on (Varane goes in to few duels, less than Lindelof).

Good points!

I'd still love to see Tuanzebe become 3rd choice.

We don't need 5 senior CBs, I think selling the one out of Bailly & Lindelof that can actually be sold and has value, still makes sense.

For all the shit we give Bailly's injury record, if we took his car away and if he got his jabs, he'd still be available for 80% of the season if he doesn't play.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I'd still love to see Tuanzebe become 3rd choice.

First you wanted Lindelof gone to keep a crocked Bailly, And now you want Axel, who has done absolutely nothing, to be 3rd choice.

 

[VanDeBank]

First you wanted Lindelof gone to keep a crocked Bailly, And now you want Axel, who has done absolutely nothing, to be 3rd choice.

I don't want X gone to keep Y. They're not linked! If Bailly could be sold for 25M, I'd say yes. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

Axel has shown there's not much between them, whilst having a lot of potential. Both Lindelof and Bailly have shown they're not good enough.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't want X gone to keep Y. They're not linked! If Bailly could be sold for 25M, I'd say yes. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

Axel has shown there's not much between them, whilst having a lot of potential. Both Lindelof and Bailly have shown they're not good enough.

Axel has not shown anything yet that he is even close to Lindelof when asked to perform regularly. The only thing he has on Lindelof is his pace and maybe tackling.

 

[RedSky]

Difficult to argue with the actual numbers.

It's also clear who Ole thinks is the better defender. For all stick Lindelof is getting we had the 3rd best defensive record in 19/20. This past season was worse, but with 6 conceded against Spurs in a game he didn't play I'm not sure how much you can blame him.

Varane is of course an improvement, but it would not make any sense for us to get rid of Lindelof. Squad depth is a good thing.

Hold my beer...

I've not checked the games where they've not completed the full 90mins. This therefore removes 10 games for Lindelof and 13 for Bailly. I can look at the games individually and add it to the stats if required.

​

Player​	Games (full 90mins)​	Clean Sheets​	Goals Conceded​	Conceded per game​	Clean Sheet %​
Lindelof​	101​	33​	106​	1.0​	33%​
Bailly​	47​	24​	41​	0.9​	51%​
Maguire​	71​	26​	71​	1.0​	37%​

​

*NB: only league games counted

The main difference is that Lindelof is fit and can be relied on every week. Bailly as we all know has been plagued by a hideous amount of injuries and simply cannot be relied on as a starter. But i'd argue that the numbers actually support the notion that Bailly is the best defender. What it doesn't take into consideration is that when Bailly was starting he was being managed by Jose who was a defensive Manager. However, Lindelofs breakthrough at United came under Jose and Joses dreadful 3rd season conincided with Lindelof starting a lot of games.

 

[VanDeBank]

Axel has not shown anything yet that he is even close to Lindelof when asked to perform regularly.

This statement is correct for the obvious reason Axel has never been asked to do such a thing, unless you consider 2 successive starts to be regularly.

Great against PSG, then dissapeared, got one start months later where he had a stinker, then dissapeared again.

I understand Ole's safe decision to go with experience from that point on. I just don't think the decision was based on skill. Lindelof has had his fair share of stinker games. Perhaps benching Axel after PSG was a mistake?

 

[Suedesi]

I hope this thread is shorter than 5 pages.

Thank you Victor.

 

[edcunited1878]

He's still a good CB and a player who can play in the top leagues. The fact that his place should be going to a genuine top class player, tells it all. Only a clear top player was going to displace him.

It's up to him if he wants to stay and fight for a place or consider making himself available as an alternative RB. But I have no ill will towards Victor. Competition for places is a necessary thing and he's never back down to any set backs. He's responded well, has improved year over year, even if we all know his main weaknesses.

But interesting what he wants to do. If I were him, I'd stick around at least for this year and see how it shakes out with the amount of matches United play and injuries/workload.

Maguire shouldn't be playing every single match again, neither Varane. Lindelof should feature around 15 to 20 matches across the season, probably not enough for him.

 

[Red Shorts]

Hold my beer...

I've not checked the games where they've not completed the full 90mins. This therefore removes 10 games for Lindelof and 13 for Bailly. I can look at the games individually and add it to the stats if required.

​

Player​	Games (full 90mins)​	Clean Sheets​	Goals Conceded​	Conceded per game​	Clean Sheet %​
Lindelof​	101​	33​	106​	1.0​	33%​
Bailly​	47​	24​	41​	0.9​	51%​
Maguire​	71​	26​	71​	1.0​	37%​

​

*NB: only league games counted

The main difference is that Lindelof is fit and can be relied on every week. Bailly as we all know has been plagued by a hideous amount of injuries and simply cannot be relied on as a starter. But i'd argue that the numbers actually support the notion that Bailly is the best defender. What it doesn't take into consideration is that when Bailly was starting he was being managed by Jose who was a defensive Manager. However, Lindelofs breakthrough at United came under Jose and Joses dreadful 3rd season conincided with Lindelof starting a lot of games.

If this was facebook, or if you were a newbie and I was the scout, I would like this.

However, if someone were to pull stats on CB errors leading to goals during a period, THEN I would be impressed. Doesnt exist sadly...

 

[Strats]

Just moved into a new house in Manchester today.

Don't think he'd want to leave this summer.

 

[A-man]

A team who want to win titles need many players in every position. City have Laporte and Aké on the bench.
Here is the schedule for October-November. No way we could play that without plenty of rotation and expect to win titles. This is excluding domestic cups:


October
9 national team WC qualifiers
12 national team WC qualifiers
16 Leicester
20 Champion’s league
23 Liverpool
30 Spurs

November
3 Champion’s league
6 City
11 national team WC qualifiers
14 national team WC qualifiers
20 Watford
24 Champion’s league
27 Chelsea
30 Arsenal

December
7 Champions league

I compiled this myself so might be errors. And CL games could be on the date before or after.

 

[Bwuk]

A team who want to win titles need many players in every position. City have Laporte and Aké on the bench.
Here is the schedule for October-November. No way we could play that without plenty of rotation and expect to win titles. This is excluding domestic cups:


October
9 national team WC qualifiers
12 national team WC qualifiers
16 Leicester
20 Champion’s league
23 Liverpool
30 Spurs

November
3 Champion’s league
6 City
11 national team WC qualifiers
14 national team WC qualifiers
20 Watford
24 Champion’s league
27 Chelsea
30 Arsenal

December
7 Champions league

I compiled this myself so might be errors. And CL games could be on the date before or after.

Agreed. He’s a much more reliable player than Bailly as third choice.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Just moved into a new house in Manchester today.

Don't think he'd want to leave this summer.

Are you following Maja too?

 

[Strats]

Are you following Maja too?

I do, can't wait to see Victor in a dress from her new collection

 

[FootyGirl88]

I do, can't wait to see Victor in a dress from her new collection

 

[Ekeke]

I'm not sure Varane and Lindelof would make a good pairing. Usually they both have a more aggressive partner and Maguire is obviously the best defending in the air. I'm sure we'll find out at some point this season and it'd be a backup choice, so I guess you arent looking for perfection there.

 

[Revan]

I think he will be fine this season. Varane does not usually play every game, which means that Lindelof will play them. Any time we go with back three, Lindelof will play. And I wouldn’t be surprised if we see him a bit on the right.

I think he is quite a good player, but not good enough to start for us. As our third alternative, he is quite good to have.

People are high if they think we are going to offload Lindelof but keep the other CBs whom: 1) are not near as good, 2) are always injured. And going with only 2 reliable CBs in the season would be madness, one injury away from ruining our season.

 

[Threesus]

I think he is alright. It’s just that he hasn’t worked on his passiveness and his aerial ability. Some of his long passes to rashford are amazing. As said above, he would be fine as a third CB. Much more reliable than bailly as well.

 

[Denis79]

Really hope we get Varane because we need to improve in this position. Lindelof isn't terrible but certainly not a given starter like he's been because of our slim pickings in defence. He's had enough time to prove himself and cement his spot in the team but he doesn't have that top player quality. I've always said he's a squad player at best for a club with our ambition.

If he's happy sitting on the bench, great!

 

[golden_blunder]

I think he will be fine this season. Varane does not usually play every game, which means that Lindelof will play them. Any time we go with back three, Lindelof will play. And I wouldn’t be surprised if we see him a bit on the right.

I think he is quite a good player, but not good enough to start for us. As our third alternative, he is quite good to have.

People are high if they think we are going to offload Lindelof but keep the other CBs whom: 1) are not near as good, 2) are always injured. And going with only 2 reliable CBs in the season would be madness, one injury away from ruining our season.

Last season we were an injury to maguire away from hell. Sadly we went there

 

[Adam-Utd]

Great 3rd choice defender.

I'm really glad the coaching staff can see what the majority of us have.

 

[edcunited1878]

Stop knocking the guy down just because a world class or clear top CB is available. It took someone like Varane available and wanting to come to displace him.

He has been good enough to start and has deserved it. The defense without Maguire suffered, no matter the CB pairing.

 

[golden_blunder]

Great 3rd choice defender.

I'm really glad the coaching staff can see what the majority of us have.

I wonder did the new defensive coach have any input?

“I’m a football coach not Jesus doing miracles”

 

[golden_blunder]

Stop knocking the guy down just because a world class or clear top CB is available. It took someone like Varane available and wanting to come to displace him.

He has been good enough to start and has deserved it. The defense without Maguire suffered, no matter the CB pairing.

We would have replaced him this summer even if we couldn’t get Varane. Thankfully we could.
But his spot was deemed at risk and upgradable

 

[edcunited1878]

We would have replaced him this summer even if we couldn’t get Varane. Thankfully we could.
But his spot was deemed at risk and upgradable

With a younger, more inexperienced and marginally better CB? The list of CBs linked to United were not a total upgrade on Lindelof. Potential, sure. But not turnkey upgrade like Varane. Don't need an additional player who occupies a starting role and leaning on them to make big strides. Already have McTominay and to some degree AWB/Henderson.

 

[golden_blunder]

With a younger, more inexperienced and marginally better CB? The list of CBs linked to United were not a total upgrade on Lindelof. Potential, sure. But not turnkey upgrade like Varane. Don't need an additional player who occupies a starting role and leaning on them to make big strides. Already have McTominay and to some degree AWB/Henderson.

There were some interesting ones linked like Romero, and some total dish cloths like Pau Torres but i don’t doubt that the intention was there for that spot to be upgraded if possible.

 

[Revan]

Last season we were an injury to maguire away from hell. Sadly we went there

Well, two injuries away from hell is a big improvement from one injury away from hell.

 

[golden_blunder]

Well, two injuries away from hell is a big improvement from one injury away from hell.

Well I’ll have to disagree since if either Harry or Rafael get inured then Victor would presumably step in.

 

[TsuWave]

Stop knocking the guy down just because a world class or clear top CB is available. It took someone like Varane available and wanting to come to displace him.

He has been good enough to start and has deserved it. The defense without Maguire suffered, no matter the CB pairing.

Lindelof is a bum. framing it as if he’d be hard to replace or displace is just being dishonest. It doesn’t take a Varane to do so. And Maguire only missed 4 out of 38 league games last year

 

[golden_blunder]

But the fact we all noticed that maguire is missed in 4 games speaks volumes for the others (cbs I mean). None of them good enough

 

[Adam-Utd]

I wonder did the new defensive coach have any input?

“I’m a football coach not Jesus doing miracles”

“want me to fix your set pieces? get rid of the guy that won’t challenge for the ball ”

 

[VanDeBank]

“want me to fix your set pieces? get rid of the guy that won’t challenge for the ball ”

But Lindelof is so smart positionally. He tries to position himself in a such a way that he isnt near the ball to challenge. He learned that from ice hockey.