I’ve decided, since it makes no difference, to not post in this thread again this season. So nobody tag me or reply to me publicly
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Aghh last thing i promise. In my case Irish/northern Irish humour and an Irish forum about an English team
have a good one
What a bizarre read the previous page was 
Shame on you lot chasing @golden_blunder out of this thread while complaining about his toxic bullying of Victor Lindelof.
It was like an uprising of victims of a bully who have finally had enough and decided to band together
It was like an uprising of victims of a bully who have finally had enough and decided to band together
I think he could become a decent DM, but not the level needed at one of the biggest clubs in the world. In my opinion he lacks the aggression and the engine needed as DM. I could be completely wrong, but that’s what I feel. That’s however not my point. My point is that we need him as CB. We need to rotate, one CB might get injured, and one might be out of form. We have only seen Varane in one game where we struggled against Wolves, that’s not enough to say he’ll be a success even if that is highly likely. Bottom line, three reliable CBS is bare minimum.
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I’m completely on board with Lindelof’s demotion behind Maguire and Varane, but now that’s he’s semi-officially a squad man I must ask the question: is there a better third CB in the PL?
Maybe, but surely not more than one I would think.
Maybe, but surely not more than one I would think.
Our goal is to get every single mod to stop posting in every single thread, and eventually ban them from the site altogether! *insert Braveheart freedom meme*
PS: Don't tell the mods.
That I agree with you. We need a CB that can come in and do a good job. Lindelof has shown he can do it.
As for a DM, I think some of us are saying that since we didn't get a new one this window, couldn't he be tried out because Fred has been bad so far this season.
sweet Jesus. This is a man that Joelinton shit on. This is a guy who looks fine at CB as long as nobody runs at him quickly. This thread is rightfully celebrating the upgrade to Varane because no, no, now that he’s on the bench he’s not a better player than Thiago Silva, or Joe Gomez and this young guy Ibou Konate, or the Etihad backups. Jamaal Lascelles is a more valuable backup than Lindelof. But….sure
We need a proper midfield general that can control games.
He isn't good enough to start in his natural positionas a CB for us but he's our new DM? Don't make me laugh
I didn't say he was.
Him being successful at DM position depends a lot on the responsibilities he's given. As it is, starting position of a player and the roles they are given vary for each team.
I think his on-ball ability is decent for a DM. Doesn't try fancy stuff and keeps it simple. He, obviously, would be pressed more, but I dont see any red flags there. He reads the game pretty well. In fact, I think one of his strengths has been guiding the attacker away from danger without actually making the tackle, and that gives me some confidence on his screening ability as I think he's an intelligent player. Another responsibility he'd likely have is ability to control the tempo of the game. We know Fred can't and a lot of it is because of his tendency to go into tackles - which means a counter attack against us will either end up with opposition getting a really good chance or Fred having tackled the ball in the middle (with defensive shape at that time being all over the place).
The biggest issue is around the physicality - what happens if opposition try for long balls in his area and the opposition manage to win second balls as well. While Maguire and Varane provide good security to such errors, do we really want a DM whose biggest weakness is that well known?
I think his on-ball ability is decent for a DM. Doesn't try fancy stuff and keeps it simple. He, obviously, would be pressed more, but I dont see any red flags there. He reads the game pretty well. In fact, I think one of his strengths has been guiding the attacker away from danger without actually making the tackle, and that gives me some confidence on his screening ability as I think he's an intelligent player. Another responsibility he'd likely have is ability to control the tempo of the game. We know Fred can't and a lot of it is because of his tendency to go into tackles - which means a counter attack against us will either end up with opposition getting a really good chance or Fred having tackled the ball in the middle (with defensive shape at that time being all over the place).
The biggest issue is around the physicality - what happens if opposition try for long balls in his area and the opposition manage to win second balls as well. While Maguire and Varane provide good security to such errors, do we really want a DM whose biggest weakness is that well known?
The point is not that he is going to be a successful DM that is quality. The point is that we have not bought a quality DM this window. So we have a legless Matic and an erratic Fred whose ball control and passing is worse than Lindelof. He is not a strong player than Lindelof either and his heading is worse than Lindelof.
How on earth can you say he will cost us games when he has never been tried in that position. Fred is being played in that position when he has been playing terrible football and has cost us points with his fouls on the edge of the box or giving the ball away. Matic has been played there when he does not have the legs for that position.
You can't write off a player until he has been placed in that. Trying Lindelof in midfield does not stop him from dropping back to center half if needed during the season, but I would keep him away from that position as I just simply don't rate him as a center half.
Plenty of players have switched position and made a name for themselves. Years ago Chris Sutton switched from center half to a striker and formed a deadly partnership with Shearer at Blackburn. Dion Dublin did very well switching the other way and went from a striker to becoming a decenet enough center half.
I agree with both of you that he can’t be written off without being tried a few times. And I wouldn’t mind if Ole tested him as a DM in a cup match or two. However this is a discussion about him being suitable or not, and personally, I don’t think he has what it takes to become succesful in that position at this level and the way we play. He is perfect no 3 as CB; Reliable, seldom injured, has a high lowest level, knows all the players and how they play etc, let’s keep him there. There will be plenty of games for him as CB.
Can't believe there are some trying to talk themselves into believing lindelof could do a job as a DM. He's a fine backup CB but no chance he works as a DM...lacks the mobility and the level of composure on the ball he'd need. He sometimes looks good on the ball at CB but there'd be a whole different level of pressure on him fr the opposition in that position. Also the 'we don't know until we try' argument makes no sense. We've never tried Harry Maguire in nets but should we, just in case he's better than De Gea?
Maybe would try Dave in the middle, I mean you can’t write a player off until he’s been tried a few times right
.State of this place a centre half who is prone to being bullied and pressured expected to suddenly overcome those weaknesses and step up into midfield. I’d say we’d be better off throwing in a youngest who actually plays in midfield over converting a player into the role. Rio tried and failed and he was 10 times the player Victor is.
Maybe would try Dave in the middle, I mean you can’t write a player off until he’s been tried a few times right
State of this place a centre half who is prone to being bullied and pressured expected to suddenly overcome those weaknesses and step up into midfield. I’d say we’d be better off throwing in a youngest who actually plays in midfield over converting a player into the role. Rio tried and failed and he was 10 times the player Victor is.
exactly. Weird how frequently people want to try players out of position. Can we please just play an actual midfielder?!
The point is that we have tried all the midfield players we have and they have failed. Lindelof has played in midfield before. I don't even mind trying Shaw in midfield with Telles on the left. There are many players who can play in multiple positions. Lindelof looks like he may be able to play in midfield.
Not disagreeing with you there and I have been quite open to the idea of him being tried at DM for quite a while actually
Fergie loved giving players a crack in different positions. Often in central midfield. Rio and Alan Smith were both disasters. O’Shea and Giggs formed a good partnership at one point. If anything, his successors haven’t been experimental enough IMO.
I would like to see an experiment with Iceman in DM to be honest. Start gently with a sub few appearances in dead games and maybe a league cup game or something.
I don't think he'd be a disaster but the proof is in the pudding, I s'pose.
I don't think he'd be a disaster but the proof is in the pudding, I s'pose.
Ice Man
It's an ice idea but we need to cool it with converting players. We don't need to freeze him out of the team though.
See what you did there! We've barely done it with anyone though, we're not overdoing anything here. Who did we convert or experiment with in recent years?
I'm with Pogue on this. Since Fergie pretty much, we've stopped trying players in different positions. There's no harm in trying Lindelof in DM in some low risk games. He might come in handy in that position before the end of the season. We're an injury to Fred away from being monumentally fecked in DM. Matic ain't got legs any more.
It's a slippery slope and we're skating on thin ice
We try it. If it doesn't work, we put it on ice
Alan Smith...that was a nadir in our CM experimentation, wasn't it!? I take the point that sometimes those things can work but I also think they're much more the exception than the rule. Giggs came to CM late in his career when he had an enormous amount of experience behind him and knew the game inside out - he was always quite a clever player imo. It was also because his pace had broadly deserted him. My memory of O'Shea in midfield was a little different...I always thought he was quite poor - not the most mobile and not a particularly great (or adventurous) passer.
You are making a meme of yourself sir.
O’Shea was pretty limited in that role but we went on a great run of results, including against decent teams, with him and Giggs as a combination.
The difference was the players he tried in different positions usually showed some transferable skills over to the new position.
Other than being able to pick a pass when he's wide open, Lindelof hasn't showed any traits that we're looking for in a midfielder, especially when people here are saying he should replace Fred.
That one game Smith had against Chelsea I think it was
Players Fergie tried out in central midfield - Park, Rio, Smith, Giggs, O'Shea, Neville, Jones...think only Giggs was a relative success (Neville had some storming games though).
Fergie did experiment a lot come to think of it. Recall Park playing at RB too in a CL game.
Agree. I just the thought of people writing off something without even trying it. I personally think Lindelof has the attributes to play the CDM position from the players we have. Matic is too old and his legs are gone, Fred is stinking up the place and McTominay seems to play better as a 8.
On a similar note, I would even give Donny a go in that position. People are writing him off too without him being given a "proper" chance. I don't mean a minute here and there, but at least 5 games on the trot to build up a rhythm. Hell, we kept giving James chances after chances. I just want a fair chance given to a player who is a Dutch international, brought up in the Ajax system, and had played in a semi-final of a Champions League before writing him off.
Brilliant player for a 3rd choice CB.
The suggestion that he should be tried at DM is laughable. He'd be worse than Matic.
The suggestion that he should be tried at DM is laughable. He'd be worse than Matic.
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